The noose is getting tighter

The amount of hope that he gives to millions of human beings suffering through one of the most horrible diseases far outweighs, at least to me, what he did to get there. He will get his come uppings on judgement day.

this is why I dislike him and what he "stands" for.

 

This hope he gives to others is based on a false premise.

 

 

Only because you are more educated on the situation. The general public does not know this. It still does not make it right, but I don't see what is happening in pro cycling stopping anytime soon, if ever. You cannot deny that he was the best, clean or dirty, and that he has become a beacon of hope for people that might see little to no light at the end of the tunnel without guys like him. I bet, if you could call him, Tyler Blick and his family would certainly disagree with you. If you go to their caring page on the net, you will see that a call from Lance to Tyler's father really helped him. He wanted to quit, he didn't know what to do next. He needed something to help him fight the good fight for his 7 year old son. You also don't have a disease that could take your life tomorrow Jason. The worst part is, if and when he is caught, it will very well crush the people that he has helped. Although I am not 100% sure why as he did have cancer, he beat it, he worked his ass off and became a champion for the ages. If anyone thinks that he just rolled out of bed after chemo, put his chamois back on, took some EPO and did a couple transfusions and then hopped on his fcuking bike and won the Tour... Well that is just crazy. Hell man, we see 3rd rate club teams with guys on the sauce and those guys go NOWHERE becasue of the juice. Maybe the title of his first book should have been "It's not about the drugs".

 

I don't know man, I know what you are saying Jason. I know what he did is wrong. I know that what pretty much all of them is doing is wrong. Look at Contador, he is trying to put his positive off to tainted meat for God Sake. Problem I have with a guy like that, he takes his paycheck and fucks off back to Spain and does nothing for people with his influence. Look at Bjarne Riis. He basically said that there was no way to win the Tour without dope, he did what he had to in order to compete on a level playing field, and he was the best on that level playing field. They didn't call him "Mr. 60" for nothing. He isn't apologetic for doing what he did. Why the hell should anyone else be?

 

At the end of the day, it is going to play out however it is going to play out. I would be lying though if I didn't say that I think if he falls, the damage to cycling will be irreparable, but what it will do to the cancer community and people living in the black hole that need a light at the end of the tunnel will be absolutely tragic.

 

 

this is why I dislike him and what he "stands" for.

 

This hope he gives to others is based on a false premise.

Only because you are more educated on the situation. The general public does not know this. It still does not make it right, but I don't see what is happening in pro cycling stopping anytime soon, if ever. You cannot deny that he was the best, clean or dirty, and that he has become a beacon of hope for people that might see little to no light at the end of the tunnel without guys like him. I bet, if you could call him, Tyler Blick and his family would certainly disagree with you. If you go to their caring page on the net, you will see that a call from Lance to Tyler's father really helped him. He wanted to quit, he didn't know what to do next. He needed something to help him fight the good fight for his 7 year old son. You also don't have a disease that could take your life tomorrow Jason. The worst part is, if and when he is caught, it will very well crush the people that he has helped. Although I am not 100% sure why as he did have cancer, he beat it, he worked his ass off and became a champion for the ages. If anyone thinks that he just rolled out of bed after chemo, put his chamois back on, took some EPO and did a couple transfusions and then hopped on his fcuking bike and won the Tour... Well that is just crazy. Hell man, we see 3rd rate club teams with guys on the sauce and those guys go NOWHERE becasue of the juice. Maybe the title of his first book should have been "It's not about the drugs".

 

I don't know man, I know what you are saying Jason. I know what he did is wrong. I know that what pretty much all of them is doing is wrong. Look at Contador, he is trying to put his positive off to tainted meat for God Sake. Problem I have with a guy like that, he takes his paycheck and fucks off back to Spain and does nothing for people with his influence. Look at Bjarne Riis. He basically said that there was no way to win the Tour without dope, he did what he had to in order to compete on a level playing field, and he was the best on that level playing field. They didn't call him "Mr. 60" for nothing. He isn't apologetic for doing what he did. Why the hell should anyone else be?

 

At the end of the day, it is going to play out however it is going to play out. I would be lying though if I didn't say that I think if he falls, the damage to cycling will be irreparable, but what it will do to the cancer community and people living in the black hole that need a light at the end of the tunnel will be absolutely tragic.

I wont argue your point about hope.

 

In the end, he is just a man, no more than you and me. We are all heros, the scope is smaller. I am a hero to my kids, my wife.

 

The state of sport is depressing. Ego, money, fame: these wreck the pure essence of the game.

 

It will be impossible to go back to a level playing field. Here in Mexico, there are Masters racers who are doped just for a couple of pesos. I love riding for the sake of riding and the challenge.

 

If hope comes from a man who survived cancer, wins 7 tdf's, a world championship, and countless other races, good for them. I will find mine from some other source.

baby

Somebody call the waaah-mbulence... Pobrecito!

 

baby

Things are getting a bit interesting with the investigation-are they trying to get 'Strong on distribution?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/individual...ion-says-source

 

Things are getting a bit interesting with the investigation-are they trying to get 'Strong on distribution?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/individual...ion-says-source

could be.

 

Its bigger than dopestrong.

Thought I would give this thread a bit of a bump, whilst it is so damn cold throughout most of the country, with a few gems from The Lion King. Can always count on Mario to stir up some good shit.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cipollini-...ack-of-machismo

Mario is good for a couple of controversial quips.

Mario is good for a couple of controversial quips.

 

My all time favorite. He has balls of steel. Hit on my buddy's wife, with her standing right next to both of us at Interbike in Vegas. Best part, retired for years and he can still ride with the guys. Super nice dude off the bike.

Bumping this one up for tomorrows Sports Illustrated story, which I understand has been softened.

Bumping this one up for tomorrows Sports Illustrated story, which I understand has been softened.

Just read a pre-report on this article.

 

Can anyone serious doubt all the press now and all the people coming forward.

 

These people who never say die with the support of Dopestrong need to wake up.

 

The latest....... blood substitute called HemAssist. He was on the cutting edge of stuff that was not approved for consumption and obviously helped in winning.

 

Austin better start painting that yellow brick road another color. Like red.

Among SI’s revelations:

 

• In the late 1990s, according to a source with knowledge of the government’s investigation of Armstrong, the Texan gained access to a drug, in clinical trial, called HemAssist, developed by Baxter Healthcare Corp. HemAssist was to be used for cases of extreme blood loss. In animal studies, it had been shown to boost the blood’s oxygen-carrying capacity, without as many risks as EPO. (Armstrong, though his lawyer, denies ever taking HemAssist.)

 

• One of the perks of traveling with Armstrong, former USPS rider Floyd Landis recalls, was frequent trips on private airline charters. Private airports often subject travelers to less stringent customs checks. But Landis tells SI about the day in 2003 that he, Armstrong and team members flew into St. Moritz, where customs officials requested that they open their duffel bags for a search. “Lance had a bag of drugs and s—,” says Landis. “They wanted to search it, which was out of the ordinary.” Sifting through Armstrong’s bag, agents found syringes and drugs with labels written in Spanish. As Landis recounts, Armstrong then asked a member of his contingent to convince the agents that the drugs were vitamins and that the syringes were for vitamin injections. The agents “looked at us sideways,” says Landis, “but let us through.” (Armstrong denies that this incident ever occurred.)

 

Armstrong won that year’s Tour de France by a scant 61 seconds over his archrival, Jan Ullrich of Germany. It was by far the narrowest of his seven Tour victories.

 

• When Italian police and customs officials raided the home of longtime Armstrong teammate Yarolslav Popovych last November, they discovered documents and PEDs as well as texts and e-mails linking Armstrong’s team to controversial Italian physician Michele Ferrari as recently as 2009, though Armstrong had said he cut ties with Ferrari in 2004.

 

• In a letter reviewed by SI, Armstrong’s testosterone-epitestosterone ratio was reported to be higher than normal on three occasions between 1993 and 1996, but in each case the test was dismissed by the UCLA lab of renowned anti-doping expert Don Catlin, whose lab tested the Texan some two dozen times between 1990 and 2000. In addition to detailing those test results, SI reveals what appears to have been a reluctance from USOC officials to sanction athletes using performance-enhancing drugs.

 

In 1999, USA Cycling sent a formal request to Catlin for past test results — specifically, testosterone-epitestosterone ratios — for a cyclist identified only by his drug-testing code numbers. A source with knowledge of the request says that the cyclist was Armstrong. In a letter responding to those requests, Catlin informed USA Cycling that his lab could not recover five of the cyclist’s test results. Of the results that could be found, “three stand out,” SI reports: “a 9.0-to-1 ratio from a sample collected on June 23, 1993; a 7.6-to-1 from July 7, 1994; and a 6.5-to-1 from June 4, 1996. Most people have a ratio of 1-to-1. Prior to 2005, any ratio above 6.0-to-1 was considered abnormally high and evidence of doping; in 2005 that ratio was lowered to 4.0-to-1.”

 

While he didn’t address the 6.5-to-1 result, Catlin wrote that he had attempted confirmation (a required step) on the 9.0-to-1 and 7.6-to-1 samples, and “in both cases the confirmation was unsuccessful and the samples were reported negative.” (Armstrong says he has never taken performance-enhancing drugs and has never been informed that he tested positive.)

 

• Stephen Swart, a New Zealander who rode with Armstrong on the Motorola squad in 1995, describes the Texan as the driving force behind some of the team members deciding to use the banned blood booster EPO. “He was the instigator,” Swart tells SI. “It was his words that pushed us toward doing it.”

 

Swart, who admits to using EPO himself, also describes a hotel-room ritual in which riders pricked their fingers, put the blood in a vial, then ran it through a toaster-sized machine that provided their hematocrit levels.

 

A hematocrit reading higher than 50 results in a 15-day ban. Swart recalls a rest-day during the ’95 Tour when the Motorola riders tested their hematocrit levels. Swart himself was at 48. “Lance was 54 or 56,” he recalls.

I hope it outs Chris Carmichael, my suspicions of that guy go deep. I rode very competitively for many years and grew up on the right side of town from Hincapie, went to high school with Janie Eickhoff, rode the CS Domnguez Hills velodrome just about every weekend.

 

Everyone doped, I doped. Clen or Albuterol or other "inhalers" have been around forever. If the BS just stopped and everyone admitted it, Pantani would still be alive.

 

Until robotic limbs come in to play, I don't care what these guys use, it takes a lot to do such an intense race and knowing that it is still flesh and bone is all that matters to me anymore. This is the only way I justify looking at the sport anymore. I can only imagine what big Mig was on. Give me the days of Fignon, Jalabert and Claudio, this modern crop of riders since roughly Boardman has me bored.

 

The one thing about Lance that gets me... I heard he had some grey matter removed and someone once said "what if the pain receptors where suddenly damaged?" and "pharmaceutical grade testosterone is cleaner than natty, so would'nt that be an advantage?"

 

I have no opinion, just lots of doubts.

may be redundant

 

sorry for the long post

 

The Week in Sports Illustrated:

The Case Against Lance Armstrong

 

Story Reveals Details of Abnormal Drug Test Results, Recent Team Ties to a Controversial Italian Physician and News that the Government has links between Armstrong and Experimental Drug HemAssist

 

(NEW YORK – January 18, 2011) – In light of a federal grand jury inquiry involving Lance Armstrong—one that could result in charges of conspiracy, wire fraud, money laundering, racketeering, drug trafficking and defrauding the U.S. government—Sports Illustrated’s Selena Roberts and David Epstein reviewed hundreds of pages of documents and interviewed dozens of sources in Europe, New Zealand and the U.S. The following are excerpts from “The Case Against Lance Armstrong,” from the January 24 issue of Sports Illustrated which hits newsstands on Wednesday, January 19.

 

ARMSTRONG TIED TO THREE TESTS INDICATING UNUSUALLY

HIGH TESTOSTERONE–EPISTOSTERONE LEVELS

 

According to Dr. Donald Catlin’s estimate, his lab at UCLA performed more than two dozen tests of Armstrong between 1990 and 2000. In May 1999, USA Cycling sent a formal request to Catlin for past test results—specifically, testosterone-epitestosterone (T:E) ratios—for a cyclist identified by a source with knowledge of the request as Lance Armstrong. Three results indicated high T:E ratios, specifically: a 9.0-to-1 ratio from a sample collected on June 23, 1993; a 7.6-to-1 from July 7, 1994; and a 6.5-to-1 from June 4, 1996.

 

Roberts and Epstein report: “Most people have a ratio of 1-to-1. Prior to 2005, any ratio above 6.0-to-1 was considered abnormally high and evidence of doping; in 2005 that ratio was lowered to 4.0-to-1. But the high ratios had not led to sanctions. In his letter Catlin did not address the 6.5-to-1 result, but he wrote that he had attempted confirmation (a required step) on the 9.0-to-1 and 7.6-to-1 samples, and ‘in both cases the confirmation was unsuccessful and the samples were reported negative.’ ”

 

Armstrong has long maintained that he has never tested positive for a performance-enhancing drug. According to Roberts and Epstein: “Since the A samples were not confirmed by positive follow-up samples, in this case he’s right.”

 

WAS USOC DRUG TESTING USED TO WARN ATHLETES INSTEAD OF SACTIONING THEM?

 

From Roberts and Epstein: “Catlin’s UCLA lab did all the testing for the U.S. Olympic Committee during the nine years that Wade Exum was the organization’s doping control director. Exum resigned in June 2000 in protest of what he said was the USOC’s practice of letting positive drug tests slide. In a subsequent lawsuit claiming that he had been the victim of wrongful termination and racial discrimination, Exum alleged that 19 U.S. Olympic medalists from 1984 to 2000 had been allowed to compete in the Games despite having failed drug tests. Exum’s allegations appear to be supported by minutes of USOC anti-doping committee meetings from 1999 and 2000, recently reviewed by SI. In the minutes, officials discuss how to informally test athletes for marijuana and performance-enhancing drugs—not to sanction them but to help them to avoid testing positive at the Olympics.”

 

Roberts and Epstein write: “In 2000, according to the minutes, a debate arose within the committee over whether to use Catlin’s testosterone testing method (CIR) before the Sydney Games. Baaron Pittenger, the committee chair, said, ‘We can handle CIR in the same way we’re handling marijuana in terms of notifying the athletes.’ In reply, Catlin said, ‘Just don’t connect the CIR result to the athlete. Do it as a research experience.’ (Catlin says he doesn’t recall that discussion and adds, ‘I was always fighting to expose the USOC and all its diddling around with everything.’)”

 

ARMSTRONG LINKED TO EXPERIMENTAL DRUG “HEMASSIST” – A DRUG SHOWN TO BOOST THE BLOOD’S OXYGEN-CARRYING CAPACITY

 

A source familiar with the grand jury says Armstrong gained access to a drug called HemAssist, manufactured by Baxter Healthcare Corp., during the late 1990s. Roberts and Epstein write: “According to public records, a study on a drug called Diaspirin Cross-Linked Hemoglobin (DCLHb) began in early 1997 and ended in 1998. Baxter developed the drug, whose tradename is HemAssist, for use in cases of extreme blood loss, such as by shock and trauma victims; in animal studies it was shown to boost the blood’s oxygen-carrying capacity without the thickening caused by EPO.”

 

Dr. Robert Przybelski, who was the director of hemoglobin therapeutics at Baxter in the late ’90s, says: “If somebody was going to design something better than EPO, this would be the ideal product. [Hemoglobin-based oxygen carriers] do everything they want EPO to do without the potential side effects of increased blood viscosity and strokes. And it doesn’t last long [in the body], 12 to 24 hours, which is ideal for an event.”

 

Armstrong’s response: “Armstrong’s lawyers say that he denies ever having taken HemAssist, and they claim it was impossible for him to have had access to the drug after the clinical trials ended and Baxter abandoned development in September 1998.”

 

FORMER ARMSTRONG BICYCLE MECHANIC (AND ASSISTANT) MIKE ANDERSON CLAIMS THAT HE SAW A BOX LABELED “ANDRO” IN ARMSTRONG’S MEDICINE CABINET AND THAT HE PARTICIPATED IN A SCHEME TO DUPE USADA DURING AN ATTEMPT TO TEST ARMSTRONG

 

In addition to serving as Armstrong’s mechanic, Mike Anderson performed a number of household chores for Armstrong. In 2004, he says Armstrong asked him to remove all traces of Armstrong’s ex-wife, Kristin, from the biker’s apartment in Girona, Spain, It was then, Anderson says, that he came across a white box in the bathroom cabinet with andro written on it.

 

Roberts and Epstein write: “In papers filed in the spring of 2005, when Anderson sued Armstrong for allegedly reneging on a business deal to help him build a bike shop, Anderson’s lawyers would write the name of the substance as ‘Androstenin, or something very close to this.’ Anderson’s account in legal documents piqued the interest of the FDA. Six months ago, [investigator Jeff] Novitzky interviewed Anderson about his time working for Armstrong. Novitzky pronounced the word as An-droh-steen-die-own (Androstenedione), the steroid that became infamous when it was found in Mark McGwire’s locker. Androstenedione has been on the IOC list of banned substances since 1997.”

 

“Through his lawyer, Armstrong denies ever having taken andro.”

 

The documents from Anderson’s lawsuit also detail a random visit by USADA drug testers to Armstrong’s ranch in Texas: “Anderson says he became involved in a plan to fool the testers. His job was to keep an eye on the USADA officials—a man and a woman in a white SUV—while Armstrong’s friend John Korioth retrieved the cyclist’s black Suburban from the private terminal at the Austin airport and drove it to the ranch. The idea was for Korioth, posing as Armstrong behind the tinted windows of the car, to drive past the testers on the road and give the impression that Armstrong had been around all along and they simply could not get hold of him.”

 

Roberts and Epstein continue: “When contacted by SI, Korioth denied that the incident had occurred, saying, ‘It was proven through USADA that that didn’t happen. Mike Anderson fabricated that out of thin air.’ In response to Korioth’s assertion, Travis Tygart, USADA’s CEO, says, ‘USADA has never concluded that Mike Anderson fabricated the story.’ ”

 

“Armstrong’s legal counsel has described Anderson as ‘discredited.’ ”

 

ARMSTRONG’S TEAM LINKED TO CONTROVERSIAL ITALIAN PHYSICIAN MICHELE FERRARI AS RECENT AS 2009

 

By the mid-1990s, Armstrong had begun a relationship with Italian physician Michele Ferrari—one that Armstrong says he ended in 2004, when Ferrari was found guilty in an Italian court of “sports fraud.” Ferrari’s name resurfaced following a November raid of the Quarrata, Italy, home of Yaroslav Popvych, one of Armstrong’s Radio Shack teammates. Roberts and Epstein write: “Officials found drug-testing records, medical supplies and performance-enhancing drugs. They also found e-mails and texts that, they say, establish that as recently as 2009 Armstrong’s team had links to Ferrari.”

 

http://www.austinhomesearch.com/Search/Det...p;or=5&cp=1

Good very soon I'll be able to buy his ranch for a song because he'll need the money. When they first listed it it was at 12-million, wait till he's indicted should go for a song.

Nice piece of property, 7 miles of trails.

 

On a side note, Lance's bike shop in Austin is pretty cool.

I hope it outs Chris Carmichael. I rode very competitively for many years and grew up on the right side of town from Hincapie, went to high school with Janie Eickhoff, rode the CS Domnguez Hills velodrome just about every weekend.

 

Everyone doped, I doped. Clen or Albuterol or other "inhalers" have been around forever. I took abol, test, aboms, halo, all sorts of stacks, when I was just a junior rider. If the BS just stopped and everyone admitted it, Pantani would still be alive.

 

Until robotic limbs come in to play, I don't care what these guys use, it takes a lot to do such an intense race and knowing that it is still flesh and bone is all that matters to me anymore. This is the only way I justify looking at the sport anymore. I can only imagine what big Mig was on. Give me the days of Fignon, Jalabert and Claudio, this modern crop of riders since roughly Boardman has me bored.

Dude, Vino is bad-ass

Basso, Cancellera, Fuglsang anamators

NICE!

 

Sean Kelly punching that one time was epic, edit: or was it the Hinault... hmm... Here is BH anyway... powered by pasta, not needles http://prollyisnotprobably.com/2010/03/22/...-PINP-thumb.jpg

In case any of the handful of us on the board that follow cycling have not seen the full SI article, here it is. I thought I read that there is going to be another SI article in next weeks edition as well that will contain some further allegations/info that SI was probably initially pressured not to publish.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/art...944/1/index.htm

like the thread says, the noose is tightening.

A brief read of the article implicates the US Olympians, and that positive tests where ignored. This looks fairly well written and lots of technicalities tossing out previous, if any, convictions.

 

I think I am headed off to a BB forum to check up one some old threads I wrote about doping and performance athletes.

 

I still stand by Lance, he was flesh and bone, and enhanced or not, that is no longer the issue, everyone did it, so hunting down one guy is stupid. Let these dudse become guinea pigs testing out all sorts of gear to transform the body. I just don't like Lance's personality, but no doubt he is the center of all this stuff. Somebody needs to go poke Greg Lemond and listen to that old codger, I am sure he has been investigating for a while.

A brief read of the article implicates the US Olympians, and that positive tests where ignored. This looks fairly well written and lots of technicalities tossing out previous, if any, convictions.

 

I think I am headed off to a BB forum to check up one some old threads I wrote about doping and performance athletes.

 

I still stand by Lance, he was flesh and bone, and enhanced or not, that is no longer the issue, everyone did it, so hunting down one guy is stupid. Let these dudse become guinea pigs testing out all sorts of gear to transform the body. I just don't like Lance's personality, but no doubt he is the center of all this stuff. Somebody needs to go poke Greg Lemond and listen to that old codger, I am sure he has been investigating for a while.

 

You don't honestly think that Greg was clean do you? We know that Fignon (RIP) and the Badger were dirty. We know that Merckx has tested positive in the past. It killed Tom Simpson atop Mt Ventoux. Bugno, Chiappucci, the lot of them. All dirty. How could Greg be clean. The reason he knows so much is likely because, as I have heard from a couple people inside the circle, he was the one that brought EPO to France in the first place, and if you notice it was isolated by a doctor in '85 and was likely in clinical trials by '86 and came to market in full in '89. Greg should shut his fcuking hole. He is just bitter about what happened to him regarding racing, getting shot and then having someone steal his limelight. I am sorry for what happened to him as a kid, that shouldn't happen to anyone. He had a shit pile of talent, that is for certain. But to then come down on Lance like he is the holy roller that never touched the stuff, give me a break.

 

I wish that it was not a factor in racing. It is one of the reasons that I stepped away from racing for quite some time and never decided to make more of it. But at the end of the day, they all did it at the time. All of them. I don't think any of them have ever been clean other than before the bike. I had a close buddy of mine trying to convince me the other day that Sastre won the Tour clean, I just had to laugh in his face.

 

As for Lance, we all know he is dirty. I still think his positives far, far outweigh his negatives.

So my name "test shoot" is a triple entendre. Between photography, guns and gear, I guess I cover all these bases.

 

I never said I though Greg was clean, and cycling has been the dirtiest sport almost no doubt. If not for cycling, I would not know anything about steroids, now I am an encyclopedia.

 

If you want to talk technicality, I don't think that Landis was on test, and if he was, it was poorly advised. Test would have been the worst thing to take.

 

Lemond came back after an injury and won Le Tour, Pantani got hit by a bus, won the Giro and Le Tour back to back, Lance "Robocop" goes on a record run, Indurain has an inhuman resting heartbeat, Bugno and Chiapucci where practically cocaine fueled machines.

interesting read, take it for what its worth.

 

Ponder this: If Lance comes back in 1999 and does the Tour, but does not finish, would he be the icon he is today? I know, what if's are (for the most part) dumb, but, without this tremendous record breaking performance fueled by something other then nature, then to vehemently defend against the allegations, he would be just a cancer survivor, who raced bikes. Not much more than that.