UFO’s and Aliens.

The entire issue is based on hypothesis as we know it or as we are lead to believe whether by the authorities or through sci-fi media.

I do not doubt at all that we are not alone; simple quantities of planets, satellites and galaxies out there support that. Whether "they" really are as far advanced as we perceive them to be is the question. Let's hypothesize that they are; but it also begs the question of are they interested in out-reaching to us? We should not and cannot based our rationale and apply that to them; after all, they are not from our world. If they are indeed capable of interstellar travel, then they obviously are far more advanced than we are and for that, perhaps we are being observed not unlike lab rats and they do not wish to intervene with our evolution (think Star Trek's Prime Directive). Let's ignore the possibility of invasion and conquer which, should they wish, would bound to succeed given their technology superiority. Then there is the possibility of physical contact may end up being mutually fatal for both --- they may have something in them that proves highly toxic to us and/or vice versa. Finally, perhaps they are among us more frequent as we think. Why must they be in a form that we can recognize or even see? Consider the fact that bees can see infrared and UV to which we humans can see neither. If they have the capability of interstellar travel, obviously they have the capability of controlling and distorting light which can and will impede our vision of seeing them. And that's just based on the "physics" as we know it. We cannot even fathom what technology they have other than they being far superior. On the flip side, our own space programs, regardless of nations, had certainly have their fair share of malfunctions. What makes all the UFO's malfunction-proof? Perhaps all the possible sightings were the results of their hiccups in their cloaking technology which made them visible?

 

At the end of the day though, I don't think I would care or could care. If they are friendly and want to make contact, our government, rightly or wrongly, would take care of that long before it reaches civilian level. And if they are rogue, as afore-said, we would not stand a chance anyway. Just hope it would be quick and not-so-painful. We have enough challenges dealing with our own kind already; let alone something that is literally alien to us.

Surprised no one has mentioned Area 54 in this thread. They must have something there with it so highly protected. I am in the "I beleive" camp, but any explanation is futile.

two days and no "wheels" posts?

 

Maybe he does not want to self incriminate.

 

I don't think we are alone in this universe.

 

I had a relative that worked at Area 51. He never saw a single thing there related to UFOs. It's just where our government tests high tech airplanes. Nothing more.

Surprised no one has mentioned Area 54 in this thread. They must have something there with it so highly protected. I am in the "I beleive" camp, but any explanation is futile.

 

 

I had a relative that worked at Area 51. He never saw a single thing there related to UFOs. It's just where our government tests high tech airplanes. Nothing more.

 

Is it Area 51 or 54? Maybe both yet neither? Can it shapeshift? Lets call it Schrödinger's Alien Area.

That video being circulated is weird. Perfect camera tracking. Like there is actually something stuck on the lens. Image never wavers in frame. Also the only digital motion is the time. No other instrument readings are changing. Such as distance, tracking or motion . Like camera is actually motionless. Only fog or clouds are moving. Notice how all conspiracy theorist are retired so and so's ? I say bogus.

Aliens are actually humans from our future. They cannot be caught because they come back the day before and were not actually here.

what if the aliens made a Lamborghini that's V12, NA, manual, no driving aids with a power to weight ratio of 1HP/kg and it's only 1100 kg which looks hotter than the Terzo Millennio ???

 

A lot of good assumptions and thoughts here. Some scary concepts that I never considered before, like aliens being invisible to us.

 

I think while we assume that aliens must all be advanced (for the ones that have supposedly ventured to Earth, they'd have to be), there exists the possibility of course of mundane "human like" creatures or "animals" to currently be inhabiting far away galaxies that have no way of reaching us like us getting to them. It only takes a sun-like star about 93 million miles away from a planet to have life form that we know it, and that could easily occur in multiple occasions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't believe in aliens. We are here alone. If there is a creator or god, I cant say for sure.

two days and no "wheels" posts?

 

Maybe he does not want to self incriminate.

 

I don't think we are alone in this universe.

 

I missed this thread

My thoughts on aliens are:

 

1) If visiting us, how did they discover us? Statistically, the universe is so damned large, that it should be impossible for them to have found us unless they are very close by to begin with. You are talking at least two trillion galaxies in the visible universe, that each contain hundreds of billions to trillions of stars. And then there's the trillions upon trillions of planets as a result. Now, according to scientists, given what they known about the universe, the calculated size of the non-observable universe is about 10^(10^30) times the size of the observable universe. The observable universe being two trillion galaxies, that means 2,000.000.000.000 x 10^(10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) galaxies. And with approximately a trillion stars per galaxy, that means 1,000,000,000,000 x 2,000,000,000,000 x 10^(10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) stars.

 

2) If they are close-by, how is that? We don't know of any Earth-like planets nearby, and it seems very statistically unlikely we'd have two similar planets with two advanced civilizations in the same vicinity

 

3) Why do they always need some high-speed big spacecraft or probe to do whatever it is they are doing? We are less than one-hundred years into really advanced electronics, computers, and artificial intelligence and are already on the verge of creating robotic insects and so forth that could be used to spy on enemies, but the aliens can't create something inconspicuous like that?

I knew it, those bastards like Ferraris

 

I don't think we are alone in the universe, and I also think we aren't really that special. I have theory that life is a natural consequence of the Universe, intelligent life is probably not that common, but life, I'm sure exists. Life also doesn't require intelligence to survive, at all, in fact the most successful living things aren't intelligent. Intelligence is an accident most likely, life is not.

Starting from that premise, I think it is highly doubtful that we will ever be able to travel the stars in star trek fashion. We are bound by the speed of light, and nothing can ever exceed that. Even though it seems incredibly fast to us, on the scale of the universe, it's snail speed. At 300,000 km per second (186,000 miles per second) it would take us a little more than 2 years just to reach the nearest star system. At that speed it would take 100,000 years to cross the galaxy. WIth current tech that is impossible.

ALl other theories, proposals, concepts of interstellar travel are just that. The Alcubierre drive, which is something some people take seriously as an alternative to travel between stars, requires such amounts of energy that is also makes it unfeasible. That and also it requires the existence of completely unproven elements such as negative energy etc. Even if the necessary elements required for Alcubierre's drive to work do exist and are possible, there are a host of other hurdles to overcome, such as the release of energy upon arrival, that might actually destroy the vessel and so on.

 

On intelligent aliens. I really do not want us to meet any others at this point, especially not ones that have solved the interstellar travel problem, which would make them far more advanced than us. Resources are scarce, any intelligent life has most likely evolved from a predatorial species, and they will most likely be in competition for resources. Any predatorial species would be innately violent, just as we are. Sure we are civilized now and so on, and these basic impulses are largely under control, but they are there. It is best if we stumble upon them rather than the other way around.

 

Even if we could travel and colonize other planets that can support life, imagine the effort it would take to adapt ourselves to another environment with other microbes, bacteria, viruses etc. Would be a mammoth task. It would take years of studying a planet just to be able to adapt to it. We have no idea what we can find out there. Bacteria native to our planet with which we share origins, are deadly to us, imagine a contact with an ecosystem with which we have nothing in common. The other way around can also be considered, our impact on an alien environment can wipe it out.

 

For the foreseeable future the only places we will be travelling to are our vecinities within this solar system, and the best approach for now at least, is to take care of the planet we have and on which we evolved. There is nowhere else we will be going to anytime soon.

 

We are in the stone age of space exploration, who knows what we'll discover in the future. The first planet outside our solar system was discovered in 1995, since then we've discovered thousands, things are moving along, but compared to how much we need to know, and how much is potentially out there it's literally a drop in the ocean.

I don't believe in aliens. We are here alone. If there is a creator or god, I cant say for sure.

 

If there is a creator or god, he must have a say in aliens and other life form no?

My thoughts on aliens are:

 

1) If visiting us, how did they discover us?...

 

2) If they are close-by, how is that?...

 

3) Why do they always need some high-speed big spacecraft or probe to do whatever it is they are doing?

 

What if they were here first and live with all the other intelligent creatures... underwater. So they didn’t have to overcome some scientific odds game to find us, they just keep an eye on the surface dwellers and land walkers.

 

And these aren’t spacecraft we are seeing. The craft are operating in the atmosphere over the ocean and, sometimes, land. They may not even have tried to get off the rock, they went under it. They skipped interstellar travel altogether.

 

 

Gravity is our first problem. We're practically enslaved by it. Until we nullify it or control it, we will be stuck here.

 

Is it Area 51 or 54? Maybe both yet neither? Can it shapeshift? Lets call it Schrödinger's Alien Area.

 

Area 54 is where all of the cool aliens hang out.

 

What if they were here first and live with all the other intelligent creatures... underwater. So they didn’t have to overcome some scientific odds game to find us, they just keep an eye on the surface dwellers and land walkers.

 

And these aren’t spacecraft we are seeing. The craft are operating in the atmosphere over the ocean and, sometimes, land. They may not even have tried to get off the rock, they went under it. They skipped interstellar travel altogether.

 

The thing is, if such creatures exist, then there would probably be a lot of fossil evidence pointing towards another tool-using, tool-creating creature. Also they'd probably have to be below the bottom of the ocean as otherwise, we'd probably find them. And if they are anything like us psychologically, they'd need a huge capitalist, market-based society with trade and finance and all that in order to create anything advanced.

On intelligent aliens. I really do not want us to meet any others at this point, especially not ones that have solved the interstellar travel problem, which would make them far more advanced than us. Resources are scarce, any intelligent life has most likely evolved from a predatorial species, and they will most likely be in competition for resources. Any predatorial species would be innately violent, just as we are. Sure we are civilized now and so on, and these basic impulses are largely under control, but they are there. It is best if we stumble upon them rather than the other way around.

 

Resources probably wouldn't be a problem for aliens capable of interstellar travel, however the violence issue could very much be. The thing is that the aliens might well have a variety of different cultures, religions, civilizations, etc...of their own just as we do, and if we come into contact with the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany version of aliens as opposed to the United States or United Kingdom version of aliens, there could be some major problems.

 

Regarding life, the thing with the Earth is that it is an incredibly unique planet that became very suitable for the supporting of life due to its history. It orbits the proper type of star, in the proper location in the galaxy, at the proper distance. At some point in its past, a Mars-sized planetoid smashed into the early Earth and knocked off the material that likely coalesced into the Moon, while the planet itself was absorbed. As a result, the Earth has an unusually large core for a planet its size, and a HUGE moon, almost to the point of really be a double-planet system. The Moon's effects have played a huge role in the way the Earth is. The Earth also has a magnetic field due to the molten rock inside, which helps to repel radiation from the Sun.

 

Regarding planetary travel, I do think it is important that we learn to colonize Mars. From there, we could colonize other areas of the Solar System, but such ability will ensure humanity's survival in the event that anything really bad ever happens to Earth (say major asteroid impact). It also will ensure we know how to continue surviving on Earth as well (if we can live on Mars, we could live on Earth). The lower gravity on Mars would be a problem in terms of the issue of muscle and bone deterioration though.

The thing is, if such creatures exist, then there would probably be a lot of fossil evidence pointing towards another tool-using, tool-creating creature. Also they'd probably have to be below the bottom of the ocean as otherwise, we'd probably find them. And if they are anything like us psychologically, they'd need a huge capitalist, market-based society with trade and finance and all that in order to create anything advanced.

 

 

Why would they need a huge capitalist market? Maybe they are way beyond that concept at this point?

 

SingleSeat said it best in that "This might not even be a case of pure advancement, but of pure evolution to a form with intelligent properties that we can't even fathom (or make into a movie). "

Resources probably wouldn't be a problem for aliens capable of interstellar travel, however the violence issue could very much be. The thing is that the aliens might well have a variety of different cultures, religions, civilizations, etc...of their own just as we do, and if we come into contact with the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany version of aliens as opposed to the United States or United Kingdom version of aliens, there could be some major problems.

Regarding life, the thing with the Earth is that it is an incredibly unique planet that became very suitable for the supporting of life due to its history. It orbits the proper type of star, in the proper location in the galaxy, at the proper distance. At some point in its past, a Mars-sized planetoid smashed into the early Earth and knocked off the material that likely coalesced into the Moon, while the planet itself was absorbed. As a result, the Earth has an unusually large core for a planet its size, and a HUGE moon, almost to the point of really be a double-planet system. The Moon's effects have played a huge role in the way the Earth is. The Earth also has a magnetic field due to the molten rock inside, which helps to repel radiation from the Sun.

 

Regarding planetary travel, I do think it is important that we learn to colonize Mars. From there, we could colonize other areas of the Solar System, but such ability will ensure humanity's survival in the event that anything really bad ever happens to Earth (say major asteroid impact). It also will ensure we know how to continue surviving on Earth as well (if we can live on Mars, we could live on Earth). The lower gravity on Mars would be a problem in terms of the issue of muscle and bone deterioration though.

as regards the earth being special, that is why we evolved as we are, maybe others evolved to thrive off of the radiation our magnetic field repels?

 

Wheels, you are looking at things as they exist today, between the 15 and 18th centuries Britain was one of the European countries intent on over running and enslaving any and all other country's it could. Not sure I would want to be on the receiving end of that.

Why would they need a huge capitalist market? Maybe they are way beyond that concept at this point?

 

SingleSeat said it best in that "This might not even be a case of pure advancement, but of pure evolution to a form with intelligent properties that we can't even fathom (or make into a movie). "

 

Just a personal belief, but I think the belief in intelligent life forms that are "beyond" things like capitalism is a fantasy. For one, that is making the IMO huge assumption that something like capitalism is an aspect of "lower" beings, that a higher being wouldn't be concerned with something so "frivolous." The reality though is capitalism/trade, and warfare, have been the prime drivers of scientific and technological development in human history, and violence, both through hunting and/or warfare, has been a prime driver of intelligence in beings that have it. I just find it utopian thinking that aliens intelligent enough to create civilization and figure out interstellar travel would be "beyond" such things as politics, power, religion, warfare, capitalism, etc...I DO believe that they could be at a higher level brain-power-wise, able to understand physics in ways we can't comprehend with our more limited brain power, but that doesn't mean that if such aliens exist, that they are more "high-minded" otherwise. No different than how a thug in the ghetto can be capable of learning nuclear physics if he applied himself---he has the more powerful brain than the chimpanzee, but can be just as primitive acting.

 

Another thing is that once an intelligent life becomes intelligent enough to create civilization, I think it can actually "reverse" the evolution somewhat, for example, humans evolved from being of the intelligence of a chimpanzee to a human through the smarter people constantly being the ones to best find food and reproduce. The stupid ones failed at this, so the human brain really grew in power. But now with modern civilization, we have the constant reproduction of massive numbers of stupid people that otherwise never would have made it in the hunter-gatherer days.

as regards the earth being special, that is why we evolved as we are, maybe others evolved to thrive off of the radiation our magnetic field repels?

 

Wheels, you are looking at things as they exist today, between the 15 and 18th centuries Britain was one of the European countries intent on over running and enslaving any and all other country's it could. Not sure I would want to be on the receiving end of that.

 

On the radiation thriving, I suppose it is possible, just would need to be a totally different type of life form. As for the reference I made to countries, yes I mean the United States and United Kingdom of today. I wouldn't mind running into the alien versions of Germany today either, but wouldn't want to run into the alien version of Germans from eighty years-ago!

Resources probably wouldn't be a problem for aliens capable of interstellar travel, however the violence issue could very much be. The thing is that the aliens might well have a variety of different cultures, religions, civilizations, etc...of their own just as we do, and if we come into contact with the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany version of aliens as opposed to the United States or United Kingdom version of aliens, there could be some major problems.

 

Regarding life, the thing with the Earth is that it is an incredibly unique planet that became very suitable for the supporting of life due to its history. It orbits the proper type of star, in the proper location in the galaxy, at the proper distance. At some point in its past, a Mars-sized planetoid smashed into the early Earth and knocked off the material that likely coalesced into the Moon, while the planet itself was absorbed. As a result, the Earth has an unusually large core for a planet its size, and a HUGE moon, almost to the point of really be a double-planet system. The Moon's effects have played a huge role in the way the Earth is. The Earth also has a magnetic field due to the molten rock inside, which helps to repel radiation from the Sun.

 

Regarding planetary travel, I do think it is important that we learn to colonize Mars. From there, we could colonize other areas of the Solar System, but such ability will ensure humanity's survival in the event that anything really bad ever happens to Earth (say major asteroid impact). It also will ensure we know how to continue surviving on Earth as well (if we can live on Mars, we could live on Earth). The lower gravity on Mars would be a problem in terms of the issue of muscle and bone deterioration though.

 

Life is highly adaptable and can survive in a number of extreme scenarios. Our planet and its history/circumstances, is perfect for us, because we evolved on it, in those set conditions, any other circumstance that we might not survive in, can in fact be nurturing to others. So the uniqueness argument doesn't really hold water. Each might be unique in its own way.

 

Lower gravity on Mars might not be a huge issue. Iirc Mars' gravity is about 1/3 of Earth's. Zero g is quite detrimental but having some gravity mitigates to a large degree effects on muscles and bone density. Some adaptation will occur naturally, or will perhaps be aided by gene manipulation to a point.

 

We have no idea how large a core other planets have, they're just educated guesses. Any seismically active planet will have a core of molten rock inside it. It might or might not have a magnetic field depending on the matter it consists of and its history or proximity to its star or other celestial bodies.

 

Our star is in fact a less common type of star, habitable zones are possible on red dwarves (the most common type of star), just that they are closer to the star. Many of the possible candidates for life bearing planets that have been confirmed, orbit red dwarf stars.

 

Also another extremely important ingredient is that the star is at least a second generation star, as there will be no heavy elements (carbon etc) in a first generation star and its accompanying system, probably made up mostly of gaseous planets, clouds etc. Any element above iron in the periodic table requires a supernova to fuse and form. Ours too is a second or third gen star, we don't know for sure, but definitely not first.

 

And on aliens, we have no clues, they might be so different as to make communication next to impossible, even if we do meet some. Our imaginations are quite limited when it comes to the infinite variables that can occur. I used to read a lot of scifi, some books contain some really out of this world ideas about how alien life forms might be, but still even those are limited.

As far as we can ascertain at this time, traveling the stars is not economically feasible, the amount of effort and energy just to come say hello just doesn't make sense. If anyone makes the effort to come over, they have to have a very clear purpose, that's why I think it would be bad news if someone makes contact with us. It's naive to think even an enlightened alien culture/civilization is completely benign, just as the US and Uk haven't been, no matter their intentions.

Oh good Wheels is here so he can passively aggressive counteract everyone’s opinions with mind blowing nonsensical arguments, opinions which to begin with have no basis in reality because nobody has any concrete proof that what they are speculating and talking about is actually true, this will be fun!