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Titanium Intake for the Murcielago


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After success making more power with smooth intake tubes for the Huracan, Gallardo and R8 V10. The itch was to strong to do the same to the Murcielago and I finally couldn't take the factory intake hoses anymore. Time for the accordion to GTFO, but there was a problem, it was going to be a complete PITA and stupid expensive to make the intake out of silicone tubes. So I decided to go another stupid expensive route, pie cut titanium. :monkeyleft:

 

79BE156A-05BD-4421-9666-F79B51646622_zps

 

87B4433F-514B-443F-BD79-0B753C7C717E_zps

 

34B6FFE6-7A6C-4554-BE53-27FD407581D2_zps

 

364A7DBD-5739-40A3-80A3-0B68658A43DB_zps

 

 

The LP640 put down some decent numbers this weekend, specifically 612 horsepower at the wheels. The intake netted a peak power gain of 11whp, going from 600.7whp to 612whp.

 

Dyno%20Comparison_zpste0te9o6.png

 

Dyno%20Before_zpsnpxxvoak.png

 

Dyno%20After_zpsfxvg1bro.png

 

 

Here's some sound from the DTP exhaust:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atofi99S78A

 

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I would have thought silicon would be a lot easier and cheaper.

 

Your work is pretty amazing. The TIG weld looks pretty nice. It would be cool if it was grinded to a smooth polish but that may weaken it.

 

What does the interior walls of the accordian look like? Was it ribbed and causing turbulence?

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11awhp just from dumping the accordion tubes?

 

Also what other mods are on the car? 600awhp is stout stock..

 

Shows it on his video: BMC Air Filters, Reid Performance Titanium Intake, Fabspeed Primary Deletes, Reid Performance DTP Exhaust, Reid Performance 2WD conversion.

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11awhp just from dumping the accordion tubes?

 

Also what other mods are on the car? 600awhp is stout stock..

Yeah, 11whp gain from the intake tubes alone on 91 octane.

Stimpy listed my modifications.

 

I would have thought silicon would be a lot easier and cheaper.

 

Your work is pretty amazing. The TIG weld looks pretty nice. It would be cool if it was grinded to a smooth polish but that may weaken it.

 

What does the interior walls of the accordian look like? Was it ribbed and causing turbulence?

The problem is all four tubes are different and there is nothing to base the shape of the tubes off of (stock hoses don't stay in the proper shape). So development for four tubes is very expensive and time consuming, but the actual material is not very expensive. While I like the idea of looking stock, it just wasn't worth the effort.

 

That is not my work, I have a very talented fabricator do that work. It would definitely not be as pretty if I were doing it. :lol2:

 

Yeah, the inside of the accordion tube is ribbed and creates turbulence.

 

Shows it on his video: BMC Air Filters, Reid Performance Titanium Intake, Fabspeed Primary Deletes, Reid Performance DTP Exhaust, Reid Performance 2WD conversion.

This.

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The problem is all four tubes are different and there is nothing to base the shape of the tubes off of (stock hoses don't stay in the proper shape). So development for four tubes is very expensive and time consuming, but the actual material is not very expensive. While I like the idea of looking stock, it just wasn't worth the effort.

 

Sounds like this could be a very good use case for 3D modeling and printing to at least make a firm smooth shape of the inside of each tube. A home unit could do this project.

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I could be wrong, but I understand that most of the horsepower gain from the LP640 to the SV was from changes to the intake. Would it be cheaper (and more effective) to bolt on the SV intake, or is there not enough room in the compartment? Seems like it should fit...

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Sounds like this could be a very good use case for 3D modeling and printing to at least make a firm smooth shape of the inside of each tube. A home unit could do this project.

To place inside the stock hoses?

 

I could be wrong, but I understand that most of the horsepower gain from the LP640 to the SV was from changes to the intake. Would it be cheaper (and more effective) to bolt on the SV intake, or is there not enough room in the compartment? Seems like it should fit...

The intake tubes are the same between the 640 and 670. The revised intake could be air boxes or changes to the intake manifold. The free flowing exhaust and the tune also make up the additional power.

 

That was a lot of welding.

No doubt.

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To place inside the stock hoses?

 

No, to basically create a mold that is a smoothed-out representation of the inside of the 4 hoses. Maybe then lay carbon fiber over the outside to make the tubes? You would need some way to section the molds to pull them out of the inside when done.

 

Just an idea.

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Got the link or thread for the Gallardo intake?

http://www.lambopower.com/forum/index.php?...c=78900&hl=

 

What does the interior walls of the accordian look like? Was it ribbed and causing turbulence?

Here's the interior of the factory accordion hoses.

 

47D1CB94-4FD2-4B0A-9324-CC35E4E16059_zps

 

No, to basically create a mold that is a smoothed-out representation of the inside of the 4 hoses. Maybe then lay carbon fiber over the outside to make the tubes? You would need some way to section the molds to pull them out of the inside when done.

 

Just an idea.

 

Yeah, that's generally what the idea was for silicone. If there were more Murci's out there it would be worth the developmental time and costs to do silicone, but since there are less than 4k Murci's world-wide and only a small percentage of those cars are modified, it makes more sense to do custom low production intakes.

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Yeah, that's generally what the idea was for silicone. If there were more Murci's out there it would be worth the developmental time and costs to do silicone, but since there are less than 4k Murci's world-wide and only a small percentage of those cars are modified, it makes more sense to do custom low production intakes.

 

But that's the whole point of 3D printing because it makes the low volume economics work. Just doing one more of those cutting pie sliced and welding until you're blue in face would be more work and cost than 3D printing. You might even be able to find a 3D printer material that can handle that heat level and just call it done after it prints.

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But that's the whole point of 3D printing because it makes the low volume economics work. Just doing one more of those cutting pie sliced and welding until you're blue in face would be more work and cost than 3D printing. You might even be able to find a 3D printer material that can handle that heat level and just call it done after it prints.

If I was going for the most cost conscious product, I would have not chosen titanium and definitely not utilized pie welds. But one of the reasons for changing the intake was to rid the engine bay of the cheapness of the afterthought factory intake which plastic and/or standard aluminum piping wouldn't achieve.

 

While I really like silicone intakes because they look stock to the untrained eye, the initial cost along with the effort level to create that was not worth it to me, mostly because it would result a very high cost silicone intake. Whereas the long-term cost of titanium is high, but it is a high cost material with a high cost build process that is widely accepted as being unique and there is a value in that besides some extra power.

 

Further, we are dealing with cars in a market segment where the cost isn't going to be an issue for someone who wants to clean up their engine bay and gain power. But the product they get for that price is a deciding factor. Going over the top for a visible product is more in-line with the theme of a Murcielago than sacrificing style to be cost conscious.

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Nice work and the performance is impressive!

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"If there were more Murci's out there it would be worth the developmental time and costs to do silicone"

vs.

"market segment where the cost isn't going to be an issue"

 

"one of the reasons for changing the intake was to rid the engine bay of the cheapness of the afterthought factory intake"

vs.

"I really like silicone intakes because they look stock"

 

 

You got my head spinning!

 

But I agree, if you can get to silicon, that's the ticket. My opinion is the pie welded titanium looks great to people that have tried to do those welds and earns points for technical difficulty, but to the less-welding proficient rich people, it looks pretty homemade, especially with the silicon piece used as a coupling and extra band clamps.

 

 

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"If there were more Murci's out there it would be worth the developmental time and costs to do silicone"

vs.

"market segment where the cost isn't going to be an issue"

 

"one of the reasons for changing the intake was to rid the engine bay of the cheapness of the afterthought factory intake"

vs.

"I really like silicone intakes because they look stock"

 

 

You got my head spinning!

 

But I agree, if you can get to silicon, that's the ticket. My opinion is the pie welded titanium looks great to people that have tried to do those welds and earns points for technical difficulty, but to the less-welding proficient rich people, it looks pretty homemade, especially with the silicon piece used as a coupling and extra band clamps.

Lets make this clear since you’re taking my statements out of context.

 

You grouped these two quotes together:

If there were more Murci's out there it would be worth the developmental time and costs to do silicone, but since there are less than 4k Murci's world-wide and only a small percentage of those cars are modified, it makes more sense to do custom low production intakes.

Further, we are dealing with cars in a market segment where the cost isn't going to be an issue for someone who wants to clean up their engine bay and gain power. But the product they get for that price is a deciding factor.

 

And you grouped these two quotes together:

While I really like silicone intakes because they look stock to the untrained eye, the initial cost along with the effort level to create that was not worth it to me, mostly because it would result a very high cost silicone intake.

But one of the reasons for changing the intake was to rid the engine bay of the cheapness of the afterthought factory intake which plastic and/or standard aluminum piping wouldn't achieve.

 

Your head must really be spinning if you have confusion between these statements because when read in their entirety, they are quite clear. Also, nowhere did I say that I would make silicone intakes for the Murcielago.

 

I truly do appreciate relevant opinions on the intake, both good and bad. However, I don’t agree with your points as both of the points you critiqued are found on the highest of quality parts for Lamborghinis, such as:

  • The Balboni exhaust is the most exclusive exhaust for the Aventador SV and its made from pie cut titanium, so “less-welding proficient rich people” thinking that pie cut titanium looks “pretty homemade” is more of an uneducated opinion than fact.
  • The most respected companies who turbocharge Lamborghinis, such as Heffner and Underground Racing, all use silicone couplers with band clamps and I have never heard or seen a written comment referring to any of those cars as looking homemade. Again, this statement more of an uneducated opinion than fact.

If you have any further comments that are relevant to the intake, please post them, I’d love to hear them. But if you’re going to continue to make uneducated posts like this, please refrain. If you truly feel the need to contact me regarding them, PM me so this thread isn’t filled with un-related posts.

 

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Nice work and the performance is impressive!

Thanks!

 

What a shame to hide 50% of the ti in the air box, your fab guy is very good with the TIG torch.

Seriously. I need to come up with some carbon panels that hide the frame, but show off the intake and factory carbon air boxes. Here's the engine bay with one of the panels off:

 

F2A592B9-AE08-4704-BC50-279FB76615D5_zps

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Lets be honest, no one wants a titanium intake tubes, not becuase they arent cool, but they are cost prohibitive given the marginal amount of power they make.

 

That said IF you come up with a less expensive way to do this, and do it out of silicon, or you want to give away your titanium ones for cheap, count me in. I love cheap power. Also, I am going to guess that Roadsters have a different path, as our CF panels are different as well. :/

 

I REALLY do want to go all out on 'bolt on' power for my 09 lp640 and see where it nets me. I started a thread on this, and I would seriously entertain a set of intake hoses, if they were reasonably priced.

 

I'm going to see what I can come up with for legitimate data on mod parts and power gains. I did a similar thing to my 06 murci, before and after. I have a feeling the lp640 is going to be much better bang for the buck in mod gains.

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  • 4 weeks later...
Lets be honest, no one wants a titanium intake tubes, not becuase they arent cool, but they are cost prohibitive given the marginal amount of power they make.

 

That said IF you come up with a less expensive way to do this, and do it out of silicon, or you want to give away your titanium ones for cheap, count me in. I love cheap power. Also, I am going to guess that Roadsters have a different path, as our CF panels are different as well. :/

 

I REALLY do want to go all out on 'bolt on' power for my 09 lp640 and see where it nets me. I started a thread on this, and I would seriously entertain a set of intake hoses, if they were reasonably priced.

 

I'm going to see what I can come up with for legitimate data on mod parts and power gains. I did a similar thing to my 06 murci, before and after. I have a feeling the lp640 is going to be much better bang for the buck in mod gains.

A few sets are being made for clients as we speak, so it does have some fans. Yes, purely focusing on the power gains for the cost makes this unrealistic. However, it has the cool factor, which offsets the cost. If there are any changes with the intake, LP will be the first to know.

 

I think you'll be very happy with how the LP responds to mods.

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