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CEO: Lamborghini's next supercars will be plug-in hybrids


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https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/l...be-plug-hybrids

 

Lamborghini CEO Stefano Domenicali has confirmed that replacements for the Aventador and Huracan supercars, due in around 2020 and 2022 respectively, will be powered by plug-in hybrid powertrains.

 

On the face of it, this is troubling news. Batteries and motors mean more power, but also more weight. And as we all know, weight is the enemy. However, get ready for a silver lining.

 

“As long as I’m technical director, our super sports cars will not have a turbocharged engine, Maurizio Reggiani, Lamborghini’s chief technical officer, told us. “It’s about emotion. If you don’t have emotion, then you have nothing,”

 

What this means, Reggiani later clarified, is that the naturally aspirated V12 and V10 engines will live on for another generation, but with hybrid assistance, and a small electric-only range to help the company reduce its average emissions.

 

“The big questions are packaging and weight. Yes, this will be a silent Lamborghini, but push the accelerator and the engine will come. Silence will only last for some seconds then comes the sound.”

 

We can speculate all day about what form this hybrid assistance will take… so we will. Let’s assume Lamborghini borrows Porsche’s hybrid module from the Panamera Turbo S e-hybrid (that’s the Panamera that combines a 542bhp/568lb ft 4.0-litre twin-turbo V8 with a 134bhp electric motor, energized from a 14kwh lithium-ion battery pack, to boost total outputs to 671bhp and 626lb ft. This itself is a powertrain that’s hotly tipped for a plug-in hybrid Lamborghini Urus, but I digress).

 

Apply that maths to an Aventador S and you end up with around 860bhp and 566lb ft of torque, and a 30-mile EV-only range, with a circa 300kg weight penalty. Do the same to the standard Huracan and you end up with 728bhp and 471lb ft. The numbers, it appears, well and truly stack up, and there’s still time for battery density to improve and the price of carbon fibre and other exotic materials to come down, both of which will improve the power-to-weight ratio sums.

 

In the car world, two to four years is nothing, meaning both cars will already be deep into development. Which is why Domenicali is already looking well beyond that.

 

“I don’t think that the technology for a full electric Lamborghini will be ready until 2026,” he explained, referencing the Terzo Millennio concept (pictured) as proof that they’re ready when the technology catches up. “Hybrids are a step towards that.”

 

Domenicali also admitted that his engineers are working on not just solid state batteries (widely accepted to be the next great leap, once lithium-ion has reached its full potential), but the idea of a hydrogen-powered supercar the generation after that.

 

We’re talking 15, 20 years into the future now, but if Domenicali wants to attract a new generation of buyers, he needs to stay ahead of the curve: “I want to consult with teenagers, I want to see the world through their eyes, speak their language and their culture has to be reflected in our business.”

 

So, teenagers. Is an electric or hydrogen Lambo what you want?

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I’d think along the lines of P1 power combo, so is it that bad, really? I prefer a N/A engine myself, but at the end of the day it’s not a big deal. When it gets here, everyone will clamour about how amazing it is, and want one. So much is changing with cars at some point a non-hybrid powertrain will hold back its potential.

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Ofcourse it is horrible, unneccessary weight, bad performance because battery is not a substitute for hp and top speed, bad for nature in form of making lithium, and very annoying for owners to stand next to car for several hours to make the batteries full.

 

I am now sure that Dominicali was sent from Ferrari as cancer causing trojan horse.

 

It would not even be first time. GM did that to Ford in 1960's I believe.

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The Aventador is a heavy street car. It will be even better with the batteries, motors and DCT. That’s how you get a good at everything, great sounding, 1000hp street car. A couple hundred electric hp doesn’t add a lot of weight but fills in the weak areas of an optimized ICE very well.

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Very interesting to see it confirmed. Does this mean the SVJ is now even more valuable as the official 'last of an era supercar' or less considering it's replacement will most likely blow it out of the water performance-wise?

 

 

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I'm a bit perplexed by the article. I am not a mechanical engineer so please correct me if needed to be.

 

So Lambo is saying the power plants will remain to be V12 and V10 respectively assisted by hybrid (electric motor) tech. What's the point? Both the V12 and the V10 are sufficient to yield super car performances and I am sure there are quite a few ponies left in them with some tweaks on engine management. So why the hybrid power assist? And they conceded that batteries will add weight so would there be any clear advantage by integrating hybrid assist? I get the emission restrictions part: so does that mean the V12 and the V10 will be de-tuned to meet emission standards? If so, again, the point is moot. Or will we be seeing small blocks of V12 and V10 which, once again, seems like a futile exercise.

 

Talk and speculation are easy. It ultimately boils down to how much funding Audi/VAG will grant Lamborghini to play with these ideas. Hopefully the Urus will be successful enough to contribute to the finances but it has to recuperate its own R&D, infrastructural and production line costs first and those are $$$$.

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I'm a bit perplexed by the article. I am not a mechanical engineer so please correct me if needed to be.

 

So Lambo is saying the power plants will remain to be V12 and V10 respectively assisted by hybrid (electric motor) tech. What's the point? Both the V12 and the V10 are sufficient to yield super car performances and I am sure there are quite a few ponies left in them with some tweaks on engine management. So why the hybrid power assist? And they conceded that batteries will add weight so would there be any clear advantage by integrating hybrid assist? I get the emission restrictions part: so does that mean the V12 and the V10 will be de-tuned to meet emission standards? If so, again, the point is moot. Or will we be seeing small blocks of V12 and V10 which, once again, seems like a futile exercise.

 

Talk and speculation are easy. It ultimately boils down to how much funding Audi/VAG will grant Lamborghini to play with these ideas. Hopefully the Urus will be successful enough to contribute to the finances but it has to recuperate its own R&D, infrastructural and production line costs first and those are $$$$.

 

 

The trend is towards hybrids and electrics, the Germans lead the automotive world in many ways, Lambo and Audi more specifically probably following trends set by others. Second, subsidies and government incentives. Probably a lot of incentivization for manufacturers to go green and clean. We've seen this before in building with LEED initiatives. With no initiatives no funding, so there's that. Frankly everyone else has already gone hybrid, Lambo is the last of the big boys to do so.

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The trend is towards hybrids and electrics, the Germans lead the automotive world in many ways, Lambo and Audi more specifically probably following trends set by others. Second, subsidies and government incentives. Probably a lot of incentivization for manufacturers to go green and clean. We've seen this before in building with LEED initiatives. With no initiatives no funding, so there's that. Frankly everyone else has already gone hybrid, Lambo is the last of the big boys to do so.

 

Thanks for the explaining the rationale. It does make sense, at least on the surface... Government subsidies and incentives = $$$ so who wouldn't jump on that bandwagon? Although I would say that we have also learned from LEED that quite a few of those are just for soundbite; that the long-term benefits are questionable. To this day, I am still waiting for someone to crunch some numbers and officially publish the overall benefits of a Toyota Prius over a Toyota Corolla, i.e. beginning with their manufacturing processes, their overall lifespan (usage, emissions etc...), and their recycling feasibility. To wit: how much more energy does it cost to produce a Prius vs. to produce a Corolla vs. the energy a Prius suppose to save throughout its lifespan? How to dispose the batteries of the Prius without harming the environment? Another example would be the full electric plug-in cars. Yes, they are suppose to have zero emission but what if the electricity is generated from a coal fire power plant?

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I’d think along the lines of P1 power combo, so is it that bad, really? I prefer a N/A engine myself, but at the end of the day it’s not a big deal. When it gets here, everyone will clamour about how amazing it is, and want one. So much is changing with cars at some point a non-hybrid powertrain will hold back its potential.

 

It'll be different and could be exciting...Like the La-Ferrari which has a naturally aspirated V12 with electric assist, but certainly the end of an era. Just as long it still looks bat$hit insane.

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Time to snag up Aventadors...How the EPA is hell-bent on ruin fun

 

It’s not bad at all, think 918 Porsche, that car is an absolute beast and the electric boost is phenomenal, Lamborghini has access to that tech I personally think the Aventador replacement will have an absolute killer power train, the sweet V12 will be there with an electric boost when you need it, I am really looking forward to this. It could’ve been a lot worse by adding turbos.

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Thanks for the explaining the rationale. It does make sense, at least on the surface... Government subsidies and incentives = $$$ so who wouldn't jump on that bandwagon? Although I would say that we have also learned from LEED that quite a few of those are just for soundbite; that the long-term benefits are questionable. To this day, I am still waiting for someone to crunch some numbers and officially publish the overall benefits of a Toyota Prius over a Toyota Corolla, i.e. beginning with their manufacturing processes, their overall lifespan (usage, emissions etc...), and their recycling feasibility. To wit: how much more energy does it cost to produce a Prius vs. to produce a Corolla vs. the energy a Prius suppose to save throughout its lifespan? How to dispose the batteries of the Prius without harming the environment? Another example would be the full electric plug-in cars. Yes, they are suppose to have zero emission but what if the electricity is generated from a coal fire power plant?

 

I remember reading somewhere that a comprehensive test was done as per your suggestions above and it was found that the most eco friendly car over its life span was the Land Rover.

 

It might’ve been a test done by the Britz but nevertheless LOL

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Well if the V12 is going to be there. The scare is not the obvious first phase it is always the following.

 

What if there wont be V12, but muted V8TT, or V6TT or threebanger like BMW did with i8. Then what? Still satisfied?

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I remember reading somewhere that a comprehensive test was done as per your suggestions above and it was found that the most eco friendly car over its life span was the Land Rover.

 

It might’ve been a test done by the Britz but nevertheless LOL

 

LOL!

 

If it was indeed a Land Rover then it must have been a Defender. That's almost as rudimentary of a vehicle as it can ever get. And those things last forever. About as un-user-friendly as it can get but it probably will run on used deep-frying oil. :icon_mrgreen:

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Well if the V12 is going to be there. The scare is not the obvious first phase it is always the following.

 

What if there wont be V12, but muted V8TT, or V6TT or threebanger like BMW did with i8. Then what? Still satisfied?

 

Not satisfied :tyson:

 

Lol.

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LOL!

 

If it was indeed a Land Rover then it must have been a Defender. That's almost as rudimentary of a vehicle as it can ever get. And those things last forever. About as un-user-friendly as it can get but it probably will run on used deep-frying oil. :icon_mrgreen:

 

I better buy one and move near a McDonalds the future of my motoring needs will be met until the day I die.

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I'm a bit perplexed by the article. I am not a mechanical engineer so please correct me if needed to be.

 

So Lambo is saying the power plants will remain to be V12 and V10 respectively assisted by hybrid (electric motor) tech. What's the point? Both the V12 and the V10 are sufficient to yield super car performances and I am sure there are quite a few ponies left in them with some tweaks on engine management. So why the hybrid power assist? And they conceded that batteries will add weight so would there be any clear advantage by integrating hybrid assist? I get the emission restrictions part: so does that mean the V12 and the V10 will be de-tuned to meet emission standards? If so, again, the point is moot. Or will we be seeing small blocks of V12 and V10 which, once again, seems like a futile exercise.

 

Talk and speculation are easy. It ultimately boils down to how much funding Audi/VAG will grant Lamborghini to play with these ideas. Hopefully the Urus will be successful enough to contribute to the finances but it has to recuperate its own R&D, infrastructural and production line costs first and those are $$$$.

 

Hybrid allows a much smaller V-12 that can rev/scream and the electric motors make up the missing torque down low. You get everything, there’s just a weight and cost penalty but both are improving every year. And in a two ton Aventador a couple hundred pounds isn’t a big deal compared to 900 plus hp screaming down the road.

 

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Ofcourse it is horrible, unneccessary weight, bad performance because battery is not a substitute for hp and top speed, bad for nature in form of making lithium, and very annoying for owners to stand next to car for several hours to make the batteries full.

 

I am now sure that Dominicali was sent from Ferrari as cancer causing trojan horse.

 

It would not even be first time. GM did that to Ford in 1960's I believe.

 

Funny you say that, because I think this is Lamborghini being more Ferrari than Ferrari (i.e. the N/A, RWD purity). Ferrari has never made a turbo V12 to my knowledge (unless they did it in the '80s F1), and now that's going to be their path.

 

This is why some of us like the F50 more than the F40, even if the F40 is faster.

 

If Ferrari is going turbo moving forward on the entire model range, Lamborghini has stepped up admirably. If batteries work in a LaF, they'll work just fine for the new L cars.

 

Now all Lambo has to do is to lose power to the front wheels and they'll come full circle. :icon_mrgreen:

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Hybrid allows a much smaller V-12 that can rev/scream and the electric motors make up the missing torque down low. You get everything, there’s just a weight and cost penalty but both are improving every year. And in a two ton Aventador a couple hundred pounds isn’t a big deal compared to 900 plus hp screaming down the road.

 

:iamwithstupid:

 

Just like in life the only sure thing are death and taxes, with engines, it's nearly been impossible to have real torque and a top end screamer all at once in a combustion engine.

 

You want torque, with a fixed displacement you decrease cylinder count (within reason) and further you increase stroke compared to bore on your cylinders. There are a few other tricks, but fundamentally that's what you do. This is the essence of the muscle car which tops out at 8 cylinders, with the Viper being the sole exception at 10 (and mostly because the displacement is huge). A proper truck engine is a straight 6...

 

Also, the OHV design versus DOHC seems to bias slightly for torque and is common with just about all muscle car engines except the Ford Modular V8 and the C4 ZR1.

 

Top end power is mostly about more cylinders and increased bore at a reduced stroke.

 

You can also throw in flat plane cranks versus cross plane cranks to chase top end power over torque, common with exotic motors and the voodoo Shelby GT350( R )

 

The old Ferrari F1 V10 made about 715 hp on 3.0 liters displacement naturally aspirated but had off idle torque that would barely be acceptable for an econobox.

 

General concepts, not always set in stone of course.

 

An LFA, Carrera GT, Huracan, Viper all have V10s but here's a look at how they compare:

 

LFA - 4.8 liters , bore/stroke (88mm/79mm), redline 9000 rpm

Huracan - 5.2 liters, bore/stroke (84.5 mm/92.8mm), redline 8000-8400 rpm??

Carrera GT - 5.7 liters, bore/stroke (98mm/76mm), redline 8400 rpm

Viper - 8.4 liters, bore/stroke (103 mm/101 mm), redline 6400-6500 rpm??

 

The LFA has not only the smallest displacement, but the largest bore normalized for its displacement. One of the primary reasons it can out rev the Carrera GT. The Huracan has a pretty significant stroke for its displacement which is probably why it revs less than a Carrera GT. The Viper has a rather small bore for such a huge engine, barely bigger than a CGT.

 

Interestingly enough the V10 has traditionally been seen as a nice compromise between the V8 and V12. Also according to an old SAE white paper, a V10 (along with I-3 and I-5 designs) has less parasitic losses compared to other engine designs. But that's a separate discussion....

 

 

 

TLDR:

 

You can't get something for nothing.

 

HP and torque often inversely proportional when tweaking the limits without increasing displacement.

 

Small displacement engines easier to rev high.

 

Electric motor to pick up the torque of low displacement engine, perfect match without any of the forced induction compromises.

 

I love the combo. It's exactly what I was hoping to one day see in exotics when hybrids came out a decade ago.

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It's an exciting prospect. A screaming NA V12 paired with supplemental electric motors will be incredible. Hybrid is viewed as a dirty word to a lot of people for performance cars; it won't be when they get behind the wheel of the right one. The big Lambo is the perfect car for it.

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It's an exciting prospect. A screaming NA V12 paired with supplemental electric motors will be incredible. Hybrid is viewed as a dirty word to a lot of people for performance cars; it won't be when they get behind the wheel of the right one. The big Lambo is the perfect car for it.

 

:iamwithstupid:

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Things to consider:

 

Aventador you know today won`t be the Aventador you know in the future. Replacement will have a lighter chassis/carbon tub, in fact the whole chassis will be restructured/changed. Same with the Huracan replacement. Weight saving will be the main focus for Lamborghini going forward.

 

Performance wise from A replacement you should expect no less than current Hypercar numbers.

Hybrid system adds weight, but it is an assistant the in same way turbos are for current engines. Most modern turbo engines in Supercars sound like vacuum cleaners whereas hybrid systems doesn`t effect the sound unless you go into full E mode. So Lamborghini will definitely keep the drama.

 

SVJ will definitely be the last N/A V12 engine on the market, heard the 812 facelift/replacement is going to debut later this year with hybrid assistance.

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