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6 speed manual shifting issues


Sharpieferrari
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So after I got back from a 3500 mile road trip in my 2003 murcielago, I noticed the shifter was progressively getting harder to move up and down in & out of gear. Side to side was stiff for a few days but loosened up to normal operation. But when I go in and out of any gear, it feels like I'm pushing into play doh if that makes any sense. Was going to try and see if I could locate or even reach access panels to open up small windows I've seen on Murci used transmissions off eBay pics. Any help would be appreciated. Unless your gonna tell me my trans is going out. Then I don't like you. Lol jk

 

For the record I have 70,000 happy miles on my verde Ithaca beast. I bought the car to drive and driving is what I do!

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So after I got back from a 3500 mile road trip in my 2003 murcielago, I noticed the shifter was progressively getting harder to move up and down in & out of gear. Side to side was stiff for a few days but loosened up to normal operation. But when I go in and out of any gear, it feels like I'm pushing into play doh if that makes any sense. Was going to try and see if I could locate or even reach access panels to open up small windows I've seen on Murci used transmissions off eBay pics. Any help would be appreciated. Unless your gonna tell me my trans is going out. Then I don't like you. Lol jk

 

For the record I have 70,000 happy miles on my verde Ithaca beast. I bought the car to drive and driving is what I do!

 

I'll be interested to read what the experts say, but from what I know about manual transmissions, you will want to start with the easy/low cost items to rule them out first before pulling the transmission. And I have also learned that a simple problem can cause very strange symptoms that would make you think you need a new transmission.

 

Few questions:

 

How old is the transmission fluid?

When was the last time the clutch was bled?

Has the clutch master cylinder ever been replaced?

Is your shift lever centered when it's in neutral?

What happens to the shifting if you double clutch before going into gear?

Does the car move forward when you are in 1st gear with the clutch fully depressed?

How is the gear change into each gear when the car is not moving but the engine is running?

How is the gear change into each gear when the car is not moving and the engine is not running?

Does the shift feel change depending on how high the engine is revving at the time of the shift (i.e. shift at 2K versus 5K RPM)?

Does the shifting change depending on whether the car is cold or warmed from driving?

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  • 3 weeks later...
Sounds like master cyl

 

 

Engine off, rowing through the gears would be less effort IF it was the master cylinder. Engine on, and power going into the transmission will be difficult with failing master. If there is marginal difference, its not the master cylinder.

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I have heard it can be dependent on the tranny fluid. Each tech though seems to have a different idea on which is the 'best' or 'right' fluid.

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  • 1 month later...
I guess the problem fixed itself because Sharpie seems to have lost interest in his own thread...

Unfortunately problem still there. I actually forgot about my thread lol. I'm toying with trying to pull the trans without pulling the motor. I've talked with a fabricator and I'm going to make the one non removable brace under the car into a bolt on piece. We feel it's the only thing stopping the trans from dropping out the bottom. At that point I can better diagnose my trans and put that nice piece of Kevlar in!!!!!

image.jpeg

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Unfortunately problem still there. I actually forgot about my thread lol. I'm toying with trying to pull the trans without pulling the motor. I've talked with a fabricator and I'm going to make the one non removable brace under the car into a bolt on piece. We feel it's the only thing stopping the trans from dropping out the bottom. At that point I can better diagnose my trans and put that nice piece of Kevlar in!!!!!

 

Please report back on that. It would be a great benefit to the entire Murci community if someone could come up with a way to remove the transmission like most every other car without have to move the engine.

 

However, I think you will find the bigger problem is being able to move the transmission forward far enough to clear the studs and the spline shaft. If you have a fabricator, I am thinking the only solution there is to make the tunnel side panels removable. I don't think those side panels are structural, and if so, it's just a fab thing. The transmission is basically wedged in there with no room to move forward as I see it.

 

Good luck!

 

BTW, do you have any answers to those questions I posted? It will give an idea of the source of the problem.

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Please report back on that. It would be a great benefit to the entire Murci community if someone could come up with a way to remove the transmission like most every other car without have to move the engine.

 

However, I think you will find the bigger problem is being able to move the transmission forward far enough to clear the studs and the spline shaft. If you have a fabricator, I am thinking the only solution there is to make the tunnel side panels removable. I don't think those side panels are structural, and if so, it's just a fab thing. The transmission is basically wedged in there with no room to move forward as I see it.

 

Good luck!

 

BTW, do you have any answers to those questions I posted? It will give an idea of the source of the problem.

off hand here's a few answers, car cold shift is way worse then car warm. I just changed fluid with some ford recommended stuff from another post. Minimal difference if any. Shifter has to be pushed into center position consciously otherwise it will be too far back or forward and rubs on gate sometimes. I found brass like shavings and a sheered roll pin when I took off site shield directly below the shifter assembly. Other ??? I have to double check tomorrow when I take it out for a good rodgering!!!

image.jpeg

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Please report back on that. It would be a great benefit to the entire Murci community if someone could come up with a way to remove the transmission like most every other car without have to move the engine.

 

However, I think you will find the bigger problem is being able to move the transmission forward far enough to clear the studs and the spline shaft. If you have a fabricator, I am thinking the only solution there is to make the tunnel side panels removable. I don't think those side panels are structural, and if so, it's just a fab thing. The transmission is basically wedged in there with no room to move forward as I see it.

 

Good luck!

 

BTW, do you have any answers to those questions I posted? It will give an idea of the source of the problem.

off hand here's a few answers, car cold shift is way worse then car warm. I just changed fluid with some ford recommended stuff from another post. Minimal difference if any. Shifter has to be pushed into center position consciously otherwise it will be too far back or forward and rubs on gate sometimes. I found brass like shavings and a sheered roll pin when I took off site shield directly below the shifter assembly. Other ??? I have to double check tomorrow when I take it out for a good rodgering!!!

One more pic of shavings on the site shield

image.jpeg

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Brass shavings and that roll pin are bigger problems than a transmission fluid change can fix.

 

Brass is from the synchros. The roll pin could be something to do with the shift forks. You are on the right path to open the transmission to inspect, the sooner the better since parts are so expensive.

 

Did you take out the screen filter in the front of the transmission?

 

Were you having to force it into gear in the past? I have read several Diablo threads of people breaking their shifter from forcing the gear change, and Lambo had to make the shifter stronger in the Murci. Maybe making it stronger was a bad idea because instead of the shifter breaking, maybe something will break inside the transmission instead.

 

When I drained my fluid and pulled the screen, there were no shavings at all, so that is not normal.

Screen_Filter_Transmission.jpg

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I am a little bit confused where you found that "site shield." The only part that I can see that looks like that plate in your pic, and is right under the shifter as you described, is the plate that should have the screen filter assembly attached. Did you take off that plate from where the filter is shown in my pic from the manual in figure 1?

 

If so, I am wondering if somewhere along the lines, someone took out the filter and just put a plate. If they did that, I am not sure the oil would flow properly though the transmission, and that could then cause a failure.

 

It seems highly unlikely that is the case, but I am constantly surprised what strange things mechanics will do even on high end cars.

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  • 8 months later...
So after I got back from a 3500 mile road trip in my 2003 murcielago, I noticed the shifter was progressively getting harder to move up and down in & out of gear. Side to side was stiff for a few days but loosened up to normal operation. But when I go in and out of any gear, it feels like I'm pushing into play doh if that makes any sense. Was going to try and see if I could locate or even reach access panels to open up small windows I've seen on Murci used transmissions off eBay pics. Any help would be appreciated. Unless your gonna tell me my trans is going out. Then I don't like you. Lol jk

 

For the record I have 70,000 happy miles on my verde Ithaca beast. I bought the car to drive and driving is what I do!

 

What was the issue and resolution to this? I am having the exact same issue and my shifter broke int eh process... from a number of people i've spoken with the issue seems to be with the synchros but i'd appreciate anything you can tell me about your issue and fix.

 

Thanks,

Tom

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What was the issue and resolution to this? I am having the exact same issue and my shifter broke int eh process... from a number of people i've spoken with the issue seems to be with the synchros but i'd appreciate anything you can tell me about your issue and fix.

 

Thanks,

Tom

 

Would be great if Sharpie gives us the full follow up, but I can tell you based on what he found, a roll pin and brass-looking shavings, he was definitely destined to needing to pull the transmission and replacing some expensive parts (there are no inexpensive parts inside this gearbox, including the synchro's).

 

If I were you, I would drain the fluid and check the screen, and if you find any shavings or parts in the fluid, stop driving, or you're going to need to spend more on expensive replacement parts when they do finally open up your gearbox.

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Would be great if Sharpie gives us the full follow up, but I can tell you based on what he found, a roll pin and brass-looking shavings, he was definitely destined to needing to pull the transmission and replacing some expensive parts (there are no inexpensive parts inside this gearbox, including the synchro's).

 

If I were you, I would drain the fluid and check the screen, and if you find any shavings or parts in the fluid, stop driving, or you're going to need to spend more on expensive replacement parts when they do finally open up your gearbox.

 

So i've had numerous people tell me my issue (changing gears quickly at greater than 6000rpm with the clutch fully depressed the gears grind, if i change slowly and below 6000 there's no grind) that it's either the synchros or the clutch.... any ideas?

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So after I got back from a 3500 mile road trip in my 2003 murcielago, I noticed the shifter was progressively getting harder to move up and down in & out of gear. Side to side was stiff for a few days but loosened up to normal operation. But when I go in and out of any gear, it feels like I'm pushing into play doh if that makes any sense. Was going to try and see if I could locate or even reach access panels to open up small windows I've seen on Murci used transmissions off eBay pics. Any help would be appreciated. Unless your gonna tell me my trans is going out. Then I don't like you. Lol jk

 

For the record I have 70,000 happy miles on my verde Ithaca beast. I bought the car to drive and driving is what I do!

 

My 04 gated started to do the same before he met an unrelated death and I suspect it was the synchros going out...but what I really want to ask is : what's up with that badass Grand National in your picture? Love it!

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So i've had numerous people tell me my issue (changing gears quickly at greater than 6000rpm with the clutch fully depressed the gears grind, if i change slowly and below 6000 there's no grind) that it's either the synchros or the clutch.... any ideas?

 

Yea, I've got an idea: Change the fluid to see if there's anything in it. That's just a good idea anyway.

 

Also, bleed your clutch and brakes while at it. The manual says every year for those 2 items, so you're probably due.

 

Let us know how the fluid looks. And if it's clean, let us know how it drives with the clutch bleed and the fresh gearbox fluid.

 

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Yea, I've got an idea: Change the fluid to see if there's anything in it. That's just a good idea anyway.

 

Also, bleed your clutch and brakes while at it. The manual says every year for those 2 items, so you're probably due.

 

Let us know how the fluid looks. And if it's clean, let us know how it drives with the clutch bleed and the fresh gearbox fluid.

 

I actually had all 3 done 2 months ago.... and there's been no notable difference. I didn't specifically check for any shavings to be honest

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I actually had all 3 done 2 months ago.... and there's been no notable difference. I didn't specifically check for any shavings to be honest

 

Did the problems start after the service? If you paid a shop to do it, maybe they put in the wrong gearbox fluid, or maybe they screwed up bleeding the clutch.

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Did the problems start after the service? If you paid a shop to do it, maybe they put in the wrong gearbox fluid, or maybe they screwed up bleeding the clutch.

 

nope they were there before, I thought that a change of fluid would potentially solve the problem

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nope they were there before, I thought that a change of fluid would potentially solve the problem

 

Sorry to hear that. That means you are running out of the easy fixes.

 

What's left? Clutch master cylinder bad, shifter alignment issues, internal gearbox damage.

 

I have a DIY on the master cylinder somewhere on here.

 

I have also messed with the shifter alignment, and it helped my shifting, but there's not easy way to explain how to do it. I have some write ups on here as well related to that.

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What was the issue and resolution to this? I am having the exact same issue and my shifter broke int eh process... from a number of people i've spoken with the issue seems to be with the synchros but i'd appreciate anything you can tell me about your issue and fix.

 

Thanks,

Tom

 

Regarding the broker shifter - I broke one in my first '02 Murci and had been quoted engine out of replace the shifter from a dealer. Luckily the cousin of a good friend from law school happened to be an engineer in R&D and Project Leader at Lamborghini. Below is the factory's fix for a broken shifter (which I may have previously posted in another thread awhile ago):

 

1) dismount the transmission shaft to the front axle (5 screws on the gearbox side and some more on the differential side), disconnecting the front differential from the gearbox and thus allowing access to the lower part of the shifter housing and the relevant 4 fixing screws (the front differential might have to be loosened as well, in order to allow the the removal of the whole shaft).

 

2) remove the fixings to the frame (4 screws on a big black bracket), transversal to the vehicle.

 

3) at this point you have the shifter housing itself, hanging under the tunnel; the only constraint left is a shaft (lever) from the shifter housing to the gearbox, which could be the hardest part of the job: removing the elastic pin. on the gearbox side.

 

4) once you've done this, the whole shifter assy is in your hands, ready to have the lever replaced. Shouldn't take more than 4 hrs, while removing the whole engine + gearbox might take a couple of days...

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Sorry for my delay to reporting this issue but I have good news! I have fixed the problem. The problem started from a roll pin that sheered off halfway that held the base of the shifter to the pivoting ball socket. When that broke and fell down it got caught between a solid metal tube that slides back and forth between two brass bushings that controls forward and back gear selection in base of shifter assembly. After removing the assembly I took the unit apart and found that after a burr was created from a dent in the metal slide, it starting carving grooves in the brass bushings and created a lot of friction. I further dissembled the unit with a couple of snap rings and what not and I was able to wet sand the metal slide with 400 until the burr no onger existed. I reassembled and it shifts better than new. Cost me 3 hours and a piece of 400grit along with a new roll pin upon assembly. If I can figure out how to post pics again I'll show unit out. If you really need pics or description sooner just txt me 815-342-1971.

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Sorry for my delay to reporting this issue but I have good news! I have fixed the problem. The problem started from a roll pin that sheered off halfway that held the base of the shifter to the pivoting ball socket. When that broke and fell down it got caught between a solid metal tube that slides back and forth between two brass bushings that controls forward and back gear selection in base of shifter assembly. After removing the assembly I took the unit apart and found that after a burr was created from a dent in the metal slide, it starting carving grooves in the brass bushings and created a lot of friction. I further dissembled the unit with a couple of snap rings and what not and I was able to wet sand the metal slide with 400 until the burr no onger existed. I reassembled and it shifts better than new. Cost me 3 hours and a piece of 400grit along with a new roll pin upon assembly. If I can figure out how to post pics again I'll show unit out. If you really need pics or description sooner just txt me 815-342-1971.

 

Congrats on an inexpensive fix, and thanks for sharing the info!

 

How did you get the transmission out? Were you able to take it out without taking out the engine like you were planning? Was 3 hours just for the work to fix the transmission, or does that including taking out the transmission?

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