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Volkswagen AG stock 23% down


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You think it's a good time to buy?

Or, wait a bit? :)

 

RUN!

 

They are facing up to an $18B fine along with a VERY high cost recall of all diesel vehicles produced for the last several years, potentially all the way up to complete vehicle buybacks.

 

They essentially embedded a code in the PCM to alter the computer tuning if it was getting an emissions test, so that it would pass (brilliant engineering btw). The rest of the time it was violating EPA air regulations and they did this all secretly. The EPA and CARB are so far up their ass it could turn the whole company upside down.

 

This is bad, very very bad.

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RUN!

 

They are facing up to an $18B fine along with a VERY high cost recall of all diesel vehicles produced for the last several years, potentially all the way up to complete vehicle buybacks.

 

They essentially embedded a code in the PCM to alter the computer tuning if it was getting an emissions test, so that it would pass (brilliant engineering btw). The rest of the time it was violating EPA air regulations and they did this all secretly. The EPA and CARB are so far up their ass it could turn the whole company upside down.

 

This is bad, very very bad.

 

Jokes aside, do you think it may affect Lamborghini in a longer run too?

I see the stocks down 30 and we don't know what tomorrow's gonna bring.

 

 

 

 

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they will bounce back. They did 12 billion in profit last year. It is gonna suck for them, but not put them out of business. I hope Emanon is right with the buy back, I have one of those fcuking shitboxes for work, and I hate it. I want out bad, but they tank in value the second you buy them.

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Jokes aside, do you think it may affect Lamborghini in a longer run too?

I see the stocks down 30 and we don't know what tomorrow's gonna bring.

Thats what I was wondering too while watching this today. Should be interesting.

 

How were they found out that they were doing this? This just seems like such a WTF were they thinking moment. Its almost hard for me to comprehend that a company would knowingly do something like this. Maybe more do it and I am just naive to it.

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Thats what I was wondering too while watching this today. Should be interesting.

 

How were they found out that they were doing this? This just seems like such a WTF were they thinking moment. Its almost hard for me to comprehend that a company would knowingly do something like this. Maybe more do it and I am just naive to it.

 

Apparently emissions testing is almost always done on a dyno, and the software they used recognized when the car was on a dyno and turned down the emissions (and the power) when the car is on a dyno, and then ramped everything back up when it wasn't. But some environmental group trying to promote how great and clean U.S. diesels are in an effort to get other countries to move toward our tougher standards tested a couple of VW's and a BMW using equipment that goes in the trunk rather than using a dyno (trying to replicate "real world" conditions). The BMW passed but the VW's both flunked. They reported their findings to the EPA and CARB, and after several months of back and forth with VW, the problem wasn't fixed and CARB/EPA refused to approve the '16 VW diesels for sale. At that point VW finally fessed up. So ironically the fraud was exposed by a group looking to tout how successful VW had been with these cars while meeting the U.S.'s stringent regs, but instead found that VW never met the regs, or even came close apparently.

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Apparently emissions testing is almost always done on a dyno, and the software they used recognized when the car was on a dyno and turned down the emissions (and the power) when the car is on a dyno, and then ramped everything back up when it wasn't. But some environmental group trying to promote how great and clean U.S. diesels are in an effort to get other countries to move toward our tougher standards tested a couple of VW's and a BMW using equipment that goes in the trunk rather than using a dyno (trying to replicate "real world" conditions). The BMW passed but the VW's both flunked. They reported their findings to the EPA and CARB, and after several months of back and forth with VW, the problem wasn't fixed and CARB/EPA refused to approve the '16 VW diesels for sale. At that point VW finally fessed up. So ironically the fraud was exposed by a group looking to tout how successful VW had been with these cars while meeting the U.S.'s stringent regs, but instead found that VW never met the regs, or even came close apparently.

 

 

Yikes!!!!!

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Yikes!!!!!

 

Yeah... on one hand it's fcuking diabolical. On the other (and i'm anything but a tree hugging hippie) they were polluting with some seriously dangerous shit way off the charts. I'm sure it won't sink the company, but there is a HUGE chance some execs will face criminal charges and it will be a clusterfuck for several years to come. The biggest headache (after the potential $18B) will be that for all the effected cars they either need to retrofit pieces that bring them in compliance, or take them off the road via buyback. For owners this is a huge issue, because the retrofit will undoubtedly hurt power and worse yet mpg. So if they do some retrofit fix that drastically affects either of those, they will be paying out to owners as well in one way or another.

 

Getting through this without seriously pissing off their entire market base will be the biggest challenge. Some serious owner ass kissing will be in order to keep everyone from washing their hands of the whole brand.

 

Rouleur: You have had a lot of problems with your TDI? Shit, I thought those cars held their value like a mofo. I see 10yr old shitboxes with 300k out here still selling for $10k+. For a daily commuter i'd rock a 6spd manual tdi, or I thought I would.

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I have a 6spd Jetta TDI and besides the cheap interior I really like the car. I am also going to try and do everything in power to avoid any doing any recalls based on this since that will only hurt my MPG and who knows what else when they re-map it.

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I have a 6spd Jetta TDI and besides the cheap interior I really like the car. I am also going to try and do everything in power to avoid any doing any recalls based on this since that will only hurt my MPG and who knows what else when they re-map it.

 

Definitely avoid it as best you can. My gut feeling is the fix will be EGR related (urea injection would be extremely difficult) and they are known to significantly decrease engine life. Pumping diesel soot through your motor is always bad.

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I have a 6spd Jetta TDI and besides the cheap interior I really like the car. I am also going to try and do everything in power to avoid any doing any recalls based on this since that will only hurt my MPG and who knows what else when they re-map it.

 

You may not have a choice. They may not give you tags until you get the fix done.

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Gonna be real interesting. The US went "light' on the diesel guys about 20 years ago....a billion dollar fine. EPA was a lot more lenient back then.

 

Long story short cat/cummins/detroit/volvo/etc colluded to run their on the road diesels clean for 20 minutes (EPA testing only ran for 20 minutes) then after that they would run dirty lol.

 

 

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Gonna be real interesting. The US went "light' on the diesel guys about 20 years ago....a billion dollar fine. EPA was a lot more lenient back then.

 

Long story short cat/cummins/detroit/volvo/etc colluded to run their on the road diesels clean for 20 minutes (EPA testing only ran for 20 minutes) then after that they would run dirty lol.

 

 

Very interesting...So VW wasn't the first to try and find a sneaky workaround to the Diesel regs?

 

I think it is also, in some ways, a commentary on how difficult it is to conform to the EPA's requirements as they relate to diesel emissions. To force a company like VW with so much to lose to try and cheat the system, it must have been difficult. I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision to make.

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Very interesting...So VW wasn't the first to try and find a sneaky workaround to the Diesel regs?

 

I think it is also, in some ways, a commentary on how difficult it is to conform to the EPA's requirements as they relate to diesel emissions. To force a company like VW with so much to lose to try and cheat the system, it must have been difficult. I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision to make.

 

VW CEO out.

 

I think they are in real trouble. This isn't a poorly designed part recall. This is an active system deliberately designed and installed to defeat the emissions test. I would be surprised if there were not criminal charges brought. Obviously there will be multiple class action lawsuits for loss in value, pollution, buy back my car, shareholder suits for loss in stock value, the list goes on and on. Personally I don't think the $7b they are setting aside is enough.

 

It will interesting to see what this does to their product planning and future development. Will they keep loss leaders like Bugatti or small profit centers like Lamborghini around or will they do a Ford and flush all non core brands down the toilet.

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VW CEO out.

 

I think they are in real trouble. This isn't a poorly designed part recall. This is an active system deliberately designed and installed to defeat the emissions test. I would be surprised if there were not criminal charges brought. Obviously there will be multiple class action lawsuits for loss in value, pollution, buy back my car, shareholder suits for loss in stock value, the list goes on and on. Personally I don't think the $7b they are setting aside is enough.

 

It will interesting to see what this does to their product planning and future development. Will they keep loss leaders like Bugatti or small profit centers like Lamborghini around or will they do a Ford and flush all non core brands down the toilet.

 

The 7B they set aside is just for the recall, nothing else. They are in serious trouble. I don't see them going out of business but it won't be too far from that. Before all is said and done I see this costing them at least 30B.... and criminal charges will be brought. There will be a probe to find out who knew what and when... and how far up the ladder it goes. They have no choice but to throw the book at them since it was a deliberate effort to mislead and not to a small degree, the emissions from what they are "claiming" to what was "reality" is HUGE.

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Oh yeah they are fucked. I wouldn't dumo a ton of money in to their stock right now but I'd probably throw some pocket change that way and see if it bounces back.

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What we aren't talking about is how this just screwed their R&D. They likely had products down the pipeline that used this engine or a development of it counting on the cheater device not being discovered.

 

They will have to dedicate resources to fixing the affected cars already produced in addition to huge effort to show to EPA that future cars don't skirt the system.

 

Long term costs to the company will be in closer to 20 billion (not even taking into account how sales are affected due to loss of consumer trust). And the EPA will likely be extra stringent on VW diesels coming in for inspection and emissions (if not developing a specific test to counter the cheater device). Which is gonna drive a whole ton of people off of the brand.

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By default, all VW dealers are royally screwed. I think for the first time in my life i feel bad for all the salesmen.

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