Shooting at dorm at N. Arizona University

1 dead. 3 wounded.

Is it just me or it there are more of these now. What's your take on that? Increased publicity?

Is it just me or it there are more of these now. What's your take on that? Increased publicity?

 

 

We dont know enough about this one (and surprisingly at this point, the last one for that matter) to say what this is...

 

Could just be a dispute that got out of hand or a robbery or who knows...

 

 

But ok, the bigger picture... Young, disaffected men, with a minor history of mental issues, getting guns, going into target rich environments, and shooting innocent folks... I think there are a ton of factors going on here:

 

In no particular order:

 

1. The internet. Thirty years ago these societal outcasts were- outcast... Now they have a place where they can gather with other troubled individuals in an echo chamber, and marinate on how terrible the world is. After a while that outrage and anger build to a crescendo, and a certain troubled mind sees this as an opportunity to be important and famous.

 

2. A new M.O. for a very old issue. -This is this generation's serial killer. There have been people who have a compulsion to murder, for ever. They used to hide in the shadows and pick off their victims one by one (which is still the most effective means... None of these mass shooters has ever come close to a Gary Ridgeway in terms of body count...) Now they go out in a single blaze of glory.

 

3. Mental health rights. These kids are being seen as troubled for a long time before they go off.. But society and even their parents seem powerless to do anything to force them to get help... Because mental health advocates and the aclu have been successful in destigmatizing and decriminalizing socially aberrant behaviors. Behaviors that 40 years ago would have institutionalized the kids are now within "their right to be ill". -- And I think the side effects of some psych meds need to be looked at... We've known for twenty years that some of these meds cause an increased risk of suicide... Well, thats exactly what most of these instances are... Suicides with a dose of, "and Im taking a bunch of you with me".

 

4. The video game culture- Some of these gamers are way too into this shit. We hear stories of marathon 36 hour sessions where the kid comes up for food and poop breaks. Thats not fcuking healthy. In fact, if you want to brain wash somebody, those are the two major steps: sleep deprivation and constant exposure to the ideology you want them to adopt. Yes it helps if the mind is already open to suggestion, but I would contend that somebody who wants to spend 36 hours playing a video game already has fcuking issues, and is that suggestible psyche. We know not everybody who watches a commercial will run out and buy a mercedes benz, but we know, enough will that an add where lots of eyes will passively see it, is worth millions of dollars per second... How that doesnt translate into the much more active/interactive world of video games is an impossibility.

 

5. The precious flower culture. We have a generation of kids who are being raised in a pain-free, no failure environment... Problem- Life is not pain free, and its full of failure. That first dose of reality hits these kids and they fcuking crack. Their solution is to try to force others to bend to their whim. Thats a recipe for disaster.

 

6. The general harshening of the culture.- We have a generation thats been taught that human life is insignificant. We are just animals. And in many regards, not as valuable as animals... Young people who lose their shit at the sight of an animal being killed for food, laugh their asses off at a youtube video or jackass movie of a fellow human suffering potentially severe injuries (or "Fails" as the kids like to say)... Those who reject this topsy turvy priority, borderline misanthropic idealogy, seem to be some of the ones specifically targeted by these guys. We've humanized animals, and dehumanized humans... Thats bad.

 

7. The conspiracy culture. 40 years ago there was one conspiracy theory. WHO SHOT JFK? Now its a fcuking cottage industry and the danger is, it forces people to break from reality and disempowers them all at the same time... If there is some big powerful boogy man in control of everything, and nothing we see is as it seems (i.e. An illusion/delusion) how can any of us be anything BUT perpetual victims? And this overwhelming false sense of victimization seems to be a theme for a lot of these guys who are voracious consumers f victimization conspiracies.

And so let me preemptivly respond to the "but not one mention of guns" criticism....

 

 

That's right... Because guns haven't changed...

 

The magazine fed semi- auto pistol has been around for over 100 years...

 

The Ar15 has been available for 53 years, and its predecessor, the M14/M1 was available for a decade before that... and in fact until about thirty years ago, one could buy a full auto M16 with little more hoopla and cost than it takes to buy a pistol now...

 

In fact it's MORE difficult to buy guns now than it was when I was a kid, and this shit didn't happen...

 

 

So, it isn't guns that have changed, or have gotten easier to get... Somethings happened to us...

How about early childhood discipline?

 

At an early age most of us over 40 learned that if we didn't keep our emotions in check (ie throwing a tantrum) Mom and Dad would do it for us. Whether it was a big swat on the butt or my room was cleared out of every form of entertainment. I quickly learned to keep my frustraitions from overwhelming me. That skill obviously carried in to young adulthood and later in life.

So, it isn't guns that have changed, or have gotten easier to get... Somethings happened to us...

 

Yup, we aren't responsible enough to have them anymore. I used to be a big supporter of the 2nd amendment (lived in TX for 8 years... hard not to), but this shit has gotten out of control. Something needs to change.

How about early childhood discipline?

 

At an early age most of us over 40 learned that if we didn't keep our emotions in check (ie throwing a tantrum) Mom and Dad would do it for us. Whether it was a big swat on the butt or my room was cleared out of every form of entertainment. I quickly learned to keep my frustraitions from overwhelming me. That skill obviously carried in to young adulthood and later in life.

See "Precious flowers".

Yup, we aren't responsible enough to have them anymore. I used to be a big supporter of the 2nd amendment (lived in TX for 8 years... hard not to), but this shit has gotten out of control. Something needs to change.

 

 

So by that logic, Are we not responsible enough to own CARS either?

 

Again, we're talking about an infinitesimally small number of people doing these crimes compared to the vast population.

 

Isnt it more logical to address THEM?

Post #3 was very well written Roman.

 

 

My wife works with at risk youth.

 

One additional factor that comes into play is the use of drugs.

 

The drugs are more potent than ever before.

 

Combined with the fact that some dealers are lacing seemingly benign drugs like pot with additional things like meth., mean that the youth are unwittingly being exposed to chemicals they haven't bargained for.

 

The number of kids who are suffering from drug induced psychosis is going through the roof.

 

Disaffected individuals, with little human empathy, in an altered state, who are viewing the world as if through a violent video game, is a recipe for disaster.

Yup, we aren't responsible enough to have them anymore. I used to be a big supporter of the 2nd amendment (lived in TX for 8 years... hard not to), but this shit has gotten out of control. Something needs to change.

 

No. Look at the number of gun owners in the USA compared with the number of spree shooters. It's a fraction of a fraction of a percentage. "We" aren't anything.

Yup, we aren't responsible enough to have them anymore. I used to be a big supporter of the 2nd amendment (lived in TX for 8 years... hard not to), but this shit has gotten out of control. Something needs to change.

 

Ah yes, the old, if one cant handle it, nobody can blanket argument.....

We dont know enough about this one (and surprisingly at this point, the last one for that matter) to say what this is...

 

Could just be a dispute that got out of hand or a robbery or who knows...

 

 

But ok, the bigger picture... Young, disaffected men, with a minor history of mental issues, getting guns, going into target rich environments, and shooting innocent folks... I think there are a ton of factors going on here:

 

In no particular order:

 

1. The internet. Thirty years ago these societal outcasts were- outcast... Now they have a place where they can gather with other troubled individuals in an echo chamber, and marinate on how terrible the world is. After a while that outrage and anger build to a crescendo, and a certain troubled mind sees this as an opportunity to be important and famous.

 

2. A new M.O. for a very old issue. -This is this generation's serial killer. There have been people who have a compulsion to murder, for ever. They used to hide in the shadows and pick off their victims one by one (which is still the most effective means... None of these mass shooters has ever come close to a Gary Ridgeway in terms of body count...) Now they go out in a single blaze of glory.

 

3. Mental health rights. These kids are being seen as troubled for a long time before they go off.. But society and even their parents seem powerless to do anything to force them to get help... Because mental health advocates and the aclu have been successful in destigmatizing and decriminalizing socially aberrant behaviors. Behaviors that 40 years ago would have institutionalized the kids are now within "their right to be ill". -- And I think the side effects of some psych meds need to be looked at... We've known for twenty years that some of these meds cause an increased risk of suicide... Well, thats exactly what most of these instances are... Suicides with a dose of, "and Im taking a bunch of you with me".

 

4. The video game culture- Some of these gamers are way too into this shit. We hear stories of marathon 36 hour sessions where the kid comes up for food and poop breaks. Thats not fcuking healthy. In fact, if you want to brain wash somebody, those are the two major steps: sleep deprivation and constant exposure to the ideology you want them to adopt. Yes it helps if the mind is already open to suggestion, but I would contend that somebody who wants to spend 36 hours playing a video game already has fcuking issues, and is that suggestible psyche. We know not everybody who watches a commercial will run out and buy a mercedes benz, but we know, enough will that an add where lots of eyes will passively see it, is worth millions of dollars per second... How that doesnt translate into the much more active/interactive world of video games is an impossibility.

 

5. The precious flower culture. We have a generation of kids who are being raised in a pain-free, no failure environment... Problem- Life is not pain free, and its full of failure. That first dose of reality hits these kids and they fcuking crack. Their solution is to try to force others to bend to their whim. Thats a recipe for disaster.

 

6. The general harshening of the culture.- We have a generation thats been taught that human life is insignificant. We are just animals. And in many regards, not as valuable as animals... Young people who lose their shit at the sight of an animal being killed for food, laugh their asses off at a youtube video or jackass movie of a fellow human suffering potentially severe injuries (or "Fails" as the kids like to say)... Those who reject this topsy turvy priority, borderline misanthropic idealogy, seem to be some of the ones specifically targeted by these guys. We've humanized animals, and dehumanized humans... Thats bad.

 

7. The conspiracy culture. 40 years ago there was one conspiracy theory. WHO SHOT JFK? Now its a fcuking cottage industry and the danger is, it forces people to break from reality and disempowers them all at the same time... If there is some big powerful boogy man in control of everything, and nothing we see is as it seems (i.e. An illusion/delusion) how can any of us be anything BUT perpetual victims? And this overwhelming false sense of victimization seems to be a theme for a lot of these guys who are voracious consumers f victimization conspiracies.

 

Goddamn spot on and beautifully written

Ah yes, the old, if one cant handle it, nobody can blanket argument.....

 

Re-read my post and I think I came off differently than I intended. I'm not saying guns need to go away. I'm saying something needs to change.

 

I haven't fired one of them in years, but I own 3 guns and enjoy having the right to do so. Unfortunately, this shit is happening every week at this point. Whatever we're doing isn't working and it needs to be changed.

Libtard mentality:

"We all can't be winners, so let's all be losers. Equal losers, that's the ticket!"

 

Re-read my post and I think I came off differently than I intended. I'm not saying guns need to go away. I'm saying something needs to change.

 

I haven't fired one of them in years, but I own 3 guns and enjoy having the right to do so. Unfortunately, this shit is happening every week at this point. Whatever we're doing isn't working and it needs to be changed.

 

and yet.

 

(BTW the FBI defines violent crime as murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.)

 

 

IN conjunction with pretty much everything that roman posted (rather perfectly actually) I think another thing to add is visibility. Every time one of these happens it not only makes the nightly news but it makes it to our phones our tablets or email inboxes, Its everywhere. I feel like every time one of these things happens there is no way for you to not know about it and as a result we "See" more violent crime when infact the opposite is true.

How about early childhood discipline?

 

At an early age most of us over 40 learned that if we didn't keep our emotions in check (ie throwing a tantrum) Mom and Dad would do it for us. Whether it was a big swat on the butt or my room was cleared out of every form of entertainment. I quickly learned to keep my frustraitions from overwhelming me. That skill obviously carried in to young adulthood and later in life.

 

I would STRONGLY disagree with that. Children are actually being ignored even more now. Discipline really doesn't have anything to do with it. They are acting out of frustration from ignorance.. The discipline we or our previous generation before us to "keep our emotions in check" actually destroys our self esteem. Hitting, kicking, slapping, yelling. That type of "DISCIPLINE" shuts a child up, closes them up, and takes away their sense of self. The proper way to handle emotions is to actually recognize the emotions your child is feeling by labeling it from a young age. If they throw a toy at another child the proper way to handle an angry emotion is to say "I can see that your are angry at (other childs name)" let them know the emotion is ok. actually say "it's ok to be angry", but when we are angry we don't throw toys at people, you can go hit your pillow, you can talk to them and tell them what they did made you feel angry, but we don't throw toys at them. (this makes it so when they are older we don't have to say, i can see that you were angry, but we don't shoot people.. little too late by then)

 

When we as parents do this over and over with all emotions good or bad, positive or negative, you can start to see your child express themselves in the proper way. A "negative" emotion is felt they will say things like "i am very frustrated with my brother right now, he just took my toy car i really want to hit him".. I can see that you are frustrated, and I bet you do want to hit him, but we don't hit people. You can hit your pillow if you would like... This gives our children power over their emotions. This helps them recognize their feelings and what to do with feelings they have. A "positive emotion".. I can see that doing well on your spelling test makes you happy. Its ok to be happy. You did very well. You know what I like to do when I am happy. I like to go for a jog, or ride my bike... NOW can you see there really isn't a "positive" or "negative" emotion when we handle it this way. It's just an emotion and we learn how to behave with those emotions. Because we are human and we all have them.

 

 

I must express this as strong as I can... Many of us MEN think shutting out emotions is the proper way to handle stuff.. this is fcuking idiotic. How is that working out for us. Not well. Divorce rates are at an all time high because of it. In our every day lives recognizing others emotions goes further than anything you could possibly imagine. We all want our feelings to be heard. It's human nature.

 

#1 example.. YOU CAN NOT CHANGE HOW SOMEONE FEELS... Period.... Have you ever been heart broken?? Have you ever been in love??

If you are heart broken and your friend says, man don't be heart broken she was a bitch..she was this she was that. You shouldn't feel that way blah blah blah.. does it help? NO... If your friend says man, i can tell you are heart broken. That really sucks. It's ok to feel that way man. It's ok. She was important to you, there are things you are going to miss. That is understandable....does this make you feel like your friend understands you? Does this make you feel like you have a real friend in a true time of need? Damn right it does..

 

Have you ever been in love? Have you ever had a friend say, wtf man? why don't you hang out anymore. We never see you..I thought we agreed on bro's before ho's... blah blah blah.. is this going to change how you feel about this new love? NO...What would? Wow man, I can see you are really in love with her. That is way cool. She must be special. I'd love to be able to hang out together and get to know her better...Can you feel a difference in just reading that???? You better.

 

WE CAN'T CHANGE SOMEONES FEELINGS.. EVER... If we learn to recognize others feelings. That is how a proper lady and gentleman are raised. If you don't have children you may say fcuk YOU CHAD... You are the idiot....but if you have children we all want a decent human being to be raised. If you don't. Please don't have any...

 

 

I am not perfect. I have yelled, i have slapped, I have felt like an out of control person with my children... So I am not being self righteous here... but i do understand the difference and I see the amazing difference in my children when I treat them the proper way from the improper way. I owe my children the most mental stable place. I am working on it everyday and I hope you all do the same. Hitting, slapping, yelling, or straight out ignoring your childrens emotions is the worst type of discipline there is.

 

1 more clarification... Ignoring a behavior is different than ignoring a feeling.. It's ok to ignore your child blowing spit bubbles over and over in hopes that they stop. It's not ok to see that they are angry and walk away. Or happy and walk away. This obliterates sense of self.

 

I hope you all take this into strong consideration in raising your children. This is something I have learned from much help and deep thought. It sadly isn't easy, but is it worth it? 100%

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you don't have children you may say fcuk YOU CHAD... You are the idiot....

 

Of course not. I value what you have written.

 

I also agree that bottling and shutting out emotions is very unhealthy. Appropriate outlets and assigning a value to anger is key.

 

I differ in than when a 2-3 year old is having a melt down in a grocerey store and the parent calmly responds with "yes, I can see you are upset and its ok".

There is not enough action/reaction for them to choose differntly on how they react the next time they encounter a similar situation.

 

I was raised at very early age that I always have a choice. If I make a good choice a good outcome usually comes with it. If I chose to behave badly, bad things would usually come with it.

 

It works for me. If your way works (and it must, otherwise you wouldn't be passionate about it) I certainly respect you for it.

 

I will tell you that I have never seen more misbehaved kids now than ever. I fear too many will grow up in to monsters.

Goddamn spot on and beautifully written

X 1000

 

ANOTHER SHOOTING.......

 

Students shot at a university in Texas.

Any one know where I can buy a cheap island?

X 1000

 

X10000000 !

 

That reminds me of the pre-moderator RD posts of the LP glory years! - absolutely fantastic.

X10000000 !

^^^

 

I wasn't sure how many zeros to add but I knew whatever I chose it wasn't enough.

 

Thank you RD for your articulate post.

 

This phenomenon is scary and sad at the same time. How does this get fixed? Even if parents wake up and use appropriate child rearing techniques as discussed in earlier posts by megachad and SYNYSTR - there are a couple decades in between where the youth of today are already lost and on their way to making the world a worse place for everyone.

 

It's hard to wrap my mind around the enormity of the situation and how a solution or improvement could even begin. I haven't a clue. To think about it is overwhelming.

A nation of college kids who receive a daily wake up call from their mommy is not too cool.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-...oting/73660286/

 

In the same day. SMH.

Post #3 was very well written Roman.

 

 

My wife works with at risk youth.

 

One additional factor that comes into play is the use of drugs.

 

The drugs are more potent than ever before.

I think there's something to this... The overall acceptance of drug culture is much different than when I was young... And yeah, it does seem to be an underlying thread that runs between these various subcultures of gamers/internet trolls/ disaffected youth... Take somebody who is already schizophrenic and have them self-medicate with even something as mild as marijuana- which is much more potent than it was 30 years ago- or harder drugs like E or LSD or PCP, and that brain can fracture in ways it can never heal...

 

 

 

Another area I forgot, is of course Hollywood... And no, I dont mean violent movies. I did my post graduate work on the effects of violent films on the audience. And the links between violent films and violent activity are pretty flimsy (until you add the element of SEX to the violence, and then men do show measurable negative changes in their behavior) Now, violence in films has changed a bit since then... "Torture porn" like hostel or saw was not as available mainstream, but we had TCM and FTT, etc...

 

I think the bigger issue is that we have glorified the teen and college age kid in entertainment. My boy used to watch a show called iCarly on Disney... Its a show about a middle school aged girl and her best friend who put on a webcast show... The girls are very cool... Very hip... And oddly, although the show is set in carly's apartment, there are absolutely no adults on the show. She has an older brother, who comes off as a mildly retarded imbecile, and thats the extent of adult supervision in their lives.

 

And thats not all, show after show seems to depict teenagers as the coolest people in the room. With little need for, or evidence of, adult supervision. This is a pretty unrealistic scenario for most young people. I remember High School... It sucked! But if kids buy into this "Its all down hill after 19" thing I could see where a lot of young men, who had very similar teen years as myself, could think "fcuk, the best years of my life are behind me and they sucked!- I'm not driving a ferrari, I haven't sold a tech startup and become a billionaire yet, models arent clawing each others eyes out for the opportunity to lick my taint, and my parents wont let me stay out past ten until I get my grades up...." In fact, adulthood and adults are more often than not, depicted as morons and losers in entertainment aimed at young people.. And if you don't have anything to look forward to, and youre already a bit depressed and unhinged, going all Elliot Rogers, could seem perfectly acceptable.. Kids already have a distorted sense of time and the importance and finality of everything they do, and when you bombard them with unrealistic image after unattainable image of a level of coolness, popularity, and acceptance no real human being has ever achieved, maybe thats a factor?