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Fisker Karma


kinnsella
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So a buddy of mine has been waffling for a while about his next car. New Continental GT, Maserati GT, Aston Martin Rapide, Mercerdes CLS etc. Anyway we saw the Fisker Karma at the LA car show 2 years ago and he was intrigued.

 

So this morning we went down to the Fisker dealer in Santa Monica, it's adjacent to the VW dealership. Nobody in the dealer, four cars on the lot, 2 silver, 2 a metallic brown.

 

Interior

 

2 types, leather and eco. One of the silver cars had the eco interior, looks like something out of the seventies. Apparently all the glues, fabrics are environmentally etc. It looked like a mis-match of dirty towels. The leather interior if it's black is a lot better, the brown was pretty was pretty awful too, 3 different colors. Fit and finish is ok, center consul looks pretty cheap, the forward, reverse, park button looks like a 5 cent toy. There is a small piece of wood in the center of the dash, looks like it came from a sunken ship.The door pulls creaked. Battery runs the centerline of the car and cuts the rear seats in two, rear space is tight, I am 5'11' and I was touching the roof. There are no rear AC outlets. Front seats are comfortable, steering wheel is small, aux switches seem gm parts bin. Nav and stereo worked well. Sales person was streaming music from his iphone. Rear visibility is poor, front visibility is good. However since you sit back 2 foot further than a normal car it is difficult to sight the corners since the hood is e type long. Trunk is tiny, comparable to an NSX.

 

Exterior.

 

It's a large car, the engine bay is packed, and rough looking. Some connectors are exposed. Looks pretty good in person, I just don't like the front grill. Looks like a mustache . Panel fit was not good, especially around the rear bumper. I mentioned it to the sales person and he said they are hand made....ok. Door handles have an odd actuation and feel cheap. Paint was good, however a lot their colors seem to have pearl in them...not my cup of tea personally on a sedan.

 

Performance.

 

Considering it rides on pretty aggressive 22 inch rubber, the ride was good in a BMW type of way. The steering is electric and felt a little numb. The brakes are 6 piston brembo's. I think they needed to bedded in. However I was surprised to find out the car weighs in the neighborhood of 5,500 pounds to that might be a reason. The weight was a surprise since it has an aluminum body and the hood seemed composite since when I went to shut it, it flexed so much it only caught on one side of the locking pins. It has 2 modes. Regular and sport. Plus to three settings for braking regen. Regular mode is just running on the batteries with the engine off. Car was very quite, no rattles and in normal driving fine. I would put the acceleration on par with a 528i BMW. When in sport mode, the 2 liter turbo GM motor is running, you can hear and feel it. This is used to power the converter and or charge the battery and is not connected to the wheels. I punched it from a light, there was a noticeable pause and then the car moved, they claim 420 hp.....it's the laziest 420 hp I have ever encountered. Handling, I can't comment since we were just cruising around Santa Monica. We did get on the freeway and it was fine. When I asked to take it up to Sunset to test the handling, the salesperson refused. Range on the battery only is claimed to be 50 miles, it has a 9.5 gallon gas tank. He also said that charging on 110 would often trip house hold circuits.

 

Price, Warranty etc.

 

$104,000 loaded, though they are increasing the price to $114,000 soon. Warranty 50 months or 50k. Battery is 8 years or 100k miles. Service interval is every 10k. Maintenance is included in warranty. No lease option available. 3 month wait, though the Santa Monica dealer ordered 20 cars prior to the price increase and only 8 were presold so you could have one in a week or two. 220 volt rapid charger is $2k extra.

 

Future.

 

Salesperson told me there will be ulitmately 8 models. Next up is the Nina, a 5 series competitor, a convertible Karma and a shooting brake Karma. Then an SUV etc. Thought that might spread them too thin.

 

Would I buy one?

 

No. it's slow, questionable building quality, first year car for a new company, unknown reliability. Can get as low as 20 mpg which kinda defeats the purpose. Unknown residuals and battery replacement costs. Uncertain future for the company too.

 

If I was looking for a sedan at this price point with a small back seat, my money would be on a Panamera S.

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Seems to me to be a real niche car at the moment. I've heard them proudly say several times the lump of wood in the center console is from submerged trees found at the bottom of some lake somewhere. To me this really sums up their marketing strategy. Eco, esoteric and painfully hip.

I agree with you on the quality, I was confused when they lifted up the hood and everything underneath it looked like had just thrown it all in there. Compared to the other cars in the market place they have a lot of catching up to do, and considering their target market build quality should be paramount.

I mentioned it to you the other day but I'll bring it up here. When I visited the showroom I was extremely put off by one of the sales staff. He came across as very, very rude, he did not look the part that Fisker seem to be wanting to play at all and really reminded me of someone who should be selling a used Lexus down the road. I was shocked after reading all of their press that they would have this person in the santa monica show room.

I do really want to like this car, I think it looks cool. Overall though it seems like they have quality issues from the cars through to the sales staff.

 

 

 

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Seems to me to be a real niche car at the moment. I've heard them proudly say several times the lump of wood in the center console is from submerged trees found at the bottom of some lake somewhere. To me this really sums up their marketing strategy. Eco, esoteric and painfully hip.

I agree with you on the quality, I was confused when they lifted up the hood and everything underneath it looked like had just thrown it all in there. Compared to the other cars in the market place they have a lot of catching up to do, and considering their target market build quality should be paramount.

I mentioned it to you the other day but I'll bring it up here. When I visited the showroom I was extremely put off by one of the sales staff. He came across as very, very rude, he did not look the part that Fisker seem to be wanting to play at all and really reminded me of someone who should be selling a used Lexus down the road. I was shocked after reading all of their press that they would have this person in the santa monica show room.

I do really want to like this car, I think it looks cool. Overall though it seems like they have quality issues from the cars through to the sales staff.

 

Our sales guy was fine and friendly. Though having just read a motortrend article on the toilet that morning, I felt I knew more about the car than he did. We were at the dealership for an hour and nobody else walked in.

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Car looks cool. I just don't think its going to be a big hit. Its a little to pricey for what your getting, considering what else is out there in that price range. It looks like we are getting a dealer here in Vancouver. I'll have to go take a look when they get inventory. Should be interesting to see how it compares to the Tesla S whenever that comes out.

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The S has got the Fisker beat on price already. I'd also say that they would be better than Fisker with the service and reliability since they have been around for longer and have had more time to iron out the kinks. The Tesla showroom looks waaaaaaaaay better than Fiskers. I really was expecting more from them......

 

 

 

Car looks cool. I just don't think its going to be a big hit. Its a little to pricey for what your getting, considering what else is out there in that price range. It looks like we are getting a dealer here in Vancouver. I'll have to go take a look when they get inventory. Should be interesting to see how it compares to the Tesla S whenever that comes out.

 

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Given the state of both Fisker and Tesla, it does not look good for either company. I drove by the Santa Monica shop on my way back to my office and the place looked like an enterprise return lot at an airport. A couple cars coming in, looked like people removing items from the cars. Recall or abandoning ship?

 

The Fisker I think is a better looking car. The Tesla looks very Hyundai or Chinese sedan. Not that it is bad, just very bland. Too bad the Fisker is a dog.

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Given the state of both Fisker and Tesla, it does not look good for either company. I drove by the Santa Monica shop on my way back to my office and the place looked like an enterprise return lot at an airport. A couple cars coming in, looked like people removing items from the cars. Recall or abandoning ship?

 

The Fisker I think is a better looking car. The Tesla looks very Hyundai or Chinese sedan. Not that it is bad, just very bland. Too bad the Fisker is a dog.

 

 

Yeah the Fisker dealership is very underwhelming. I haven't been inside a Tesla dealership, but from passing the one on Wilshire Blvd/405 the exterior looks "designed". Weirdly this weekend I saw 5 or 6 Fiskers on PCH and another at the top of Stunt Rd on the way to breakfast with the family. They are really really long cars.

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Yeah the Fisker dealership is very underwhelming. I haven't been inside a Tesla dealership, but from passing the one on Wilshire Blvd/405 the exterior looks "designed". Weirdly this weekend I saw 5 or 6 Fiskers on PCH and another at the top of Stunt Rd on the way to breakfast with the family. They are really really long cars.

My issue with the Santa Monica "showroom" is that it seemed cloying, banal and cheap in its own way.

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FORTUNE -- The Fisker Karma is rolling onto the world automotive stage as car writers in the U.S. and Europe examine the car in person for the first time and take their initial laps behind the wheel. They could certainly be excused for seeing the car and its creator through rose-colored glasses. Both have been the recipient of more advance publicity than a Donald Trump presidential endorsement.

Henrik Fisker is the celebrity car designer who wants to do well by doing good. His creation, the Karma, a $103,000 plug-in hybrid, has been collecting "Car of the Year" awards by the trunkload. As the first four-door ultra-luxury gas-electric car, it has been celebrated by environmentalists, blessed by the federal government with a guaranteed loan, and endorsed by celebrities. Leo DiCaprio ignited a swirl of publicity when he took delivery of the first production model.

 

But those who haven't been blinded by the glare of publicity are beginning to wonder whether the Karma will be a hit like DiCaprio's Titanic -- or a flop like his Body of Lies. More perceptive reviewers find the car overweight, inefficient, and capable of only mediocre performance that falls well short of its original eco-friendly goals.

Fisker is a 48-year-old Dane who made his reputation designing BMWs and Aston Martins. He founded Fisker Automotive in 2007 and showed the concept for the Karma four months later at the Detroit auto show. Production began haltingly nearly a year ago at a contract manufacturer in Finland, and deliveries to dealers have just begun. Not inclined to understatement, Fisker calls the Karma the fulfillment of "a lifelong dream of designing and creating a range of beautiful cars that make environmental sense without compromise."

Like the Chevy Volt, the Karma is designed to travel 30 to 45 miles on an electric charge before a gasoline engine kicks in. Unlike the $40,000 Volt, the extroverted Karma is unabashedly aimed at one-percenters. Its lines are voluptuous and proportions unique. Fisker says the design was inspired by "the elegant lines of windswept sand dunes and the muscular grace of a cheetah." He showed his green side by fitting out the interior in politically correct materials: The seating foam is made from soy-based bio fiber, the carpet backing composed of recycled post-consumer materials, and the trim sourced from "fallen, sunken and rescued wood," including some that has spent the last 300 years resting at the bottom of Lake Michigan.

Inspired design is no substitute for manufacturing experience, however, and Fisker has encountered the usual problems that come from starting up an enterprise as complex as a car manufacturer: production delays, prices hikes, and canceled orders. In December, Fisker recalled all 239 cars built between July 1 and November because of a possible problem with the battery's cooling system. Early in February, it suspended production and laid off 26 workers while it renegotiated terms of its $529 million loan from the Department of Energy. Some have begun to compare Fisker to Solyndra, the failed solar panel maker funded by the government to create green jobs.

 

When experts look beyond the Karma's drop-dead styling and scrutinize the car's functionality, they find it wanting. After complaining about "errant rattles here and there," an admittedly portly reviewer from Road & Track described climbing into the driver's seat as something of a "circus act" and declined to even make a try at getting into the rear seats.

More substantive complaints focus on the car's heft and fuel consumption. The Karma is only five inches shorter than a Ford Flex people-mover and only a few hundred pounds lighter than a Chevy Suburban -- not exactly the dimensions you look for in a sport sedan. The turning radius only looks impressive compared to a Kenworth hauling logs. Engineers at Consumer Reports figured that Fisker's claims for a 50-mile all-electric range are probably optimistic (the EPA rates the Karma at 32 miles). They also discovered that its acceleration "lacks the urgency you'd expect from a car of this price and presence," and its handling is "not at the level one would expect from a sporty high-end sedan." Consumer Reports concluded: "Whether [the Karma] is as green or as sporty as it ought to be remains to be seen."

The most scathing remarks to date came in the March issue of the usually authoritative Car and Driver. (Full disclosure: I am an occasional contributor). It complained that while the Karma is a "heartthrob" to look at, it is essentially a $100,000 irrelevance and "not a rational choice."

 

To Car and Driver, the Karma comes off as a blivet -- 10 pounds of material stuffed into a five-pound bag. The problem is trying to cram all those batteries, two electric motors, and a roof-mounted solar panel into that voluptuous body. The result is poor packaging and excessive weight. As the magazine discovered, the Karma's back seat is smaller than a tiny Honda Fit's and its trunk is less than half the size of an equally tiny Kia Rio's. The Karma's two and a half tons of avoirdupois impose a severe penalty in fuel economy -- under both electric and gasoline power. Test drivers were only able to squeeze 24 to 28 miles out of the battery, while the gas-only mileage ranged from 20 mpg to 28 mpg -- unlikely many awards from environmental groups. The magazine concludes that the Mercedes-Benz S-class is cheaper than the Karma, the Lexus LS600 better built, and the Porsche Panamera faster, nearly as economical, and $20,000 less expensive.

The Karma may yet turn out to be an important milestone on the way to the all-electric car because it demonstrates that environmental sensitivity is not incompatible with luxury and style. Or it could wind up as an automotive oddity like the Tucker Torpedo or the DeLorean DMC-12 -- too ambitious by a half.

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Saw two Karmas in Naples Motorsports last week.

 

Didn't ask about them...busy talking about other cars (458 was gorgeous) and ran out of time. Wish we had taken time to test drive it....it looked HUGE. I liked the lines.

 

Was surprised about the weight, and length of time to recharge. I assume Naples Motorsports is a dealer for them (don't think they were used but not positive).

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I think it's just too big a risk. Essentially if you buy one I think you have to approach from standpoint I just blew $125,000 which I probably won't get most of it back. It's pretty obvious they have missed their performance/economy goals which will turn off a lot of their potential green customers.

 

I really think the lack of a lease will really hurt sales too. Doesn't speak well about how they view their own future. If they had deeper pockets I think they should initially subsidize the residual value of a lease. Would allow them to move more cars, which would improve their cash flow, help customer confidence and influence the used market pricing.

 

My buddy is going back to look at the new Continental.

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I think it's just too big a risk. Essentially if you buy one I think you have to approach from standpoint I just blew $125,000 which I probably won't get most of it back. It's pretty obvious they have missed their performance/economy goals which will turn off a lot of their potential green customers.

 

I really think the lack of a lease will really hurt sales too. Doesn't speak well about how they view their own future. If they had deeper pockets I think they should initially subsidize the residual value of a lease. Would allow them to move more cars, which would improve their cash flow, help customer confidence and influence the used market pricing.

 

My buddy is going back to look at the new Continental.

 

Itll probably be similar to Tesla. First there was a wait list then you could get one in three months then immediately then there was a lease program.

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Thanks for the helpful write-up. I was interested in getting a 'real' perspective as I was intrigued with this car as a daily.

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Thanks for the helpful write-up. I was interested in getting a 'real' perspective as I was intrigued with this car as a daily.

 

 

It's odd. I have read a number of reviews of the car, several of them Fisker turned over the car to reviewers with flat batteries. It's almost like they don't the reviewers to get an accurate picture of how the car really performs.

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Saw a Karma yesterday at South Beach. Looked very cool. Like a 4 door Maserati Grand Sport with better looks.

 

 

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Saw a Karma yesterday at South Beach. Looked very cool. Like a 4 door Maserati Grand Sport with better looks.

 

Sweet! Should have snapped a shot! I need to go check one out...

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Sweet! Should have snapped a shot! I need to go check one out...

 

I was half drunk, and my wifes friend says what kind of car is that, and I look and couldn't figure it out for a second, then I relized what it was. Then a Bugatti Roadster drove by in the opposite direction, and EVERYONE walking by stopped to drool.

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Could you elaborate a bit on the Volt? I may be forced to use one in the near future...

 

 

GE?

 

I like it. For a daily driver it really is perfect. I've put ~3500 miles on mine, and have only had to burn ~3 gallons of fuel. My commute is 15 miles each way, electricity is dirt cheap in my town, and I plug in at work. I don't care where I park it, in fact I don't really think twice about it at all. It's an appliance, not a toy.

 

Basically, having the Volt gives me more time to focus on cars that are truly fun and don't compromise, with the Volt I've realized how little sense an M5 sedan makes, and just how much sense cars like the 911 GT3s do.

 

That being said, I'll be replacing mine with a a Focus electric, or Fusion energi, strictly because I'm a Ford guy.

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