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> Corner balancing - does it matter?
05LSV
post Jan 8 2018, 09:31 PM
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I doing a few things to the H in the coming weeks and one of them is adding Novitec springs. The shop doing the work is giving me a nice deal on the install (I'm doing other things to the car too) which includes setting the ride height to my liking and setting the rake. With this, they offered a reasonable price to corner balance and perform alignment on the pads. Should I bother?


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Lambofan35
post Jan 8 2018, 09:39 PM
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Some cars get lucky and are fine, others, they are off on weights but by eye they look ok. Have them do it with you in the car if you ride alone most of the time. The car will go straighter with the corner balance and alignment.
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emanon
post Jan 9 2018, 08:59 AM
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Saving a long drawn out explanation, if it were my car, I would do it. I'm sure we're talking no more than a little bit of labor here, and it will make the car the best it can be.


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05LSV
post Jan 9 2018, 09:58 AM
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QUOTE (Lambofan35 @ Jan 8 2018, 09:39 PM) *
Some cars get lucky and are fine, others, they are off on weights but by eye they look ok. Have them do it with you in the car if you ride alone most of the time. The car will go straighter with the corner balance and alignment.


Thanks for the tip!

QUOTE (emanon @ Jan 9 2018, 08:59 AM) *
Saving a long drawn out explanation, if it were my car, I would do it. I'm sure we're talking no more than a little bit of labor here, and it will make the car the best it can be.


Cool - thanks for the input. I think it's $600 - they mentioned that it takes the better part of a day as adjusting the suspension corner weights is time consuming. Sound fair?


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emanon
post Jan 9 2018, 10:13 AM
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QUOTE (05LSV @ Jan 9 2018, 09:58 AM) *
Cool - thanks for the input. I think it's $600 - they mentioned that it takes the better part of a day as adjusting the suspension corner weights is time consuming. Sound fair?


4-5 hours isn't out of line at all, so $600 isn't a deal, but it's not outside the realm either.

Ask them how they are going to account for driver weight. Do they want you sitting in the car the whole time while they do it (not an uncommon or unreasonable request for race shops), or do they have someone of similar weight that can take your place? An answer of oh, we just ballpark the offset for driver weight isn't acceptable.

As I recall the H fuel tank is right behind the driver and symmetrical L/R on the car so you don't need to make much consideration for fuel load. But being super picky have the fuel tank in the 5/8 full range.


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cake
post Jan 9 2018, 10:17 AM
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If they are going to try and mimic your weight - ask how.
One friend was told they put several batteries on his seat and Iíd be very unhappy with that approach even if they attempt to protect the interior.

When mine was done they had a tech of similar weight sit in the car.

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kinnsella
post Jan 9 2018, 11:55 AM
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I had my Gallardo corner balanced at Johnson Alignment in Torrance, I can't remember what I paid, but it was nowhere near $600. That said, it's worth doing. I actually sat in the car while they did it.
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Assman
post Jan 10 2018, 08:25 AM
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QUOTE (emanon @ Jan 9 2018, 10:13 AM) *
4-5 hours isn't out of line at all, so $600 isn't a deal, but it's not outside the realm either.

Ask them how they are going to account for driver weight. Do they want you sitting in the car the whole time while they do it (not an uncommon or unreasonable request for race shops), or do they have someone of similar weight that can take your place? An answer of oh, we just ballpark the offset for driver weight isn't acceptable.

As I recall the H fuel tank is right behind the driver and symmetrical L/R on the car so you don't need to make much consideration for fuel load. But being super picky have the fuel tank in the 5/8 full range.


Why does it take so long? Iíve seen it done and itís a 20 minute procedure. What am I missing?


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emanon
post Jan 10 2018, 09:06 AM
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QUOTE (Assman @ Jan 10 2018, 08:25 AM) *
Why does it take so long? Iíve seen it done and itís a 20 minute procedure. What am I missing?


Depends on how easy the car is to work on. Getting it on the scales, jack it up, adjust the coilover, back on the scales, rinse and repeat. Some cars are easy, others could be a real pain in the ass.

I would be floored to see it done in under a couple hours, let alone 20 min, unless the car was almost perfect from the start.


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05LSV
post Jan 10 2018, 09:47 AM
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QUOTE (emanon @ Jan 10 2018, 09:06 AM) *
Depends on how easy the car is to work on. Getting it on the scales, jack it up, adjust the coilover, back on the scales, rinse and repeat. Some cars are easy, others could be a real pain in the ass.

I would be floored to see it done in under a couple hours, let alone 20 min, unless the car was almost perfect from the start.


Thanks for the reply man. I was talking to Assman yesterday about this and was about to ask the same question...


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Kenny94945
post Jan 10 2018, 09:56 AM
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Corner weighting. IMO, as mentioned above, you need to simulate the weight of driver (and a passenger if a street car.)
Then consider the weight of the fuel as it is used. I am unsure if the fuel in your Lambo is used levelly (so to say) or if one side of the tank is used first.

I would corner weight adding 100 lbs to the driver seat.
It will be advantageous IMO.

Aligning the pads. Not fully described. If sanding the brake pad surfaces absolutely level on a machinists table and chamfering the pad compound edges/ sides at a 45 degree angle, which I term blue printing, I would also do. IMO blueprinting helps the pads lift off the rotor once you release the brakes and reduce heat. Advantageous.

Enjoy your ride, reads like you are really setting up your car for driving enjoyment.
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emanon
post Jan 10 2018, 10:26 AM
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QUOTE (Kenny94945 @ Jan 10 2018, 09:56 AM) *
Aligning the pads. Not fully described. If sanding the brake pad surfaces absolutely level on a machinists table and chamfering the pad compound edges/ sides at a 45 degree angle, which I term blue printing, I would also do. IMO blueprinting helps the pads lift off the rotor once you release the brakes and reduce heat. Advantageous.


He has carbon brakes... doing ANYTHING to the pads would be ludicrous.

And what damn difference does it make if the pads start out perfectly flat, as soon as you bed them it's all gone to shit anyway. Your theory is so flawed I can't even put it into words. Friction needs pressure, a pad just dangling against the rotor has no pressure, minimal friction = almost no heat. And on the contrary, you WANT some heat in those brakes. Hell lots of companies purposefully have the car drag the brakes to keep them warm.





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emanon
post Jan 10 2018, 10:27 AM
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QUOTE (05LSV @ Jan 10 2018, 09:47 AM) *
Thanks for the reply man. I was talking to Assman yesterday about this and was about to ask the same question...


Doesn't hurt to get estimates from other race shops. It's not something lambo specific, anyone with a coil spanner wrench and scales can do it.


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Kenny94945
post Jan 10 2018, 05:23 PM
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Emanon I disagree with your statements.
However with carbon brakes pads and rotors you have a point and may be true.

During my decades in motorcycle race shops this was standard practice...blueprinting.
Noting the old tech steel/ cast iron rotors and pads.
There is no desire for dragging brake pads for heat in dry conditions, which would also raise the fluid temp.
In wet conditions some extra heat can be desired, to keep the rotors dry, yet we still would blueprint.

Buyer beware is therefore now a point and this pad alignment should be further researched.

Good luck to the OP.
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DarrinB
post Jan 10 2018, 07:28 PM
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Do you have to wait a few weeks for the springs to settle before doing an alignment?


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Lambofan35
post Jan 10 2018, 10:11 PM
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QUOTE (DarrinB @ Jan 10 2018, 10:28 PM) *
Do you have to wait a few weeks for the springs to settle before doing an alignment?



No you shouldnít. The car sat on a boat or plane to get here and Iíd say thatís enough.

On another interesting note, iíd Changed seats or batteries for lightweight ones and its changed the dynamic of the corner balancing as well as the little less weight raised the car as well. Itís strange but the closer to the center of the cars gravity as the weight shifts, it can effect things strangely.

For Fuel, I always fill it up when i corner balance as I just like to know the max weight but in the middle of the tank is probably best for racing. All of the cars Iíve had the fuel hasnít effected the balancing EXCEPT the murcielago which apparently doesnít balance the fuel between both sides of the car.
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emanon
post Jan 11 2018, 07:24 AM
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QUOTE (Lambofan35 @ Jan 10 2018, 10:11 PM) *
No you shouldnít. The car sat on a boat or plane to get here and Iíd say thatís enough.

On another interesting note, iíd Changed seats or batteries for lightweight ones and its changed the dynamic of the corner balancing as well as the little less weight raised the car as well. Itís strange but the closer to the center of the cars gravity as the weight shifts, it can effect things strangely.

For Fuel, I always fill it up when i corner balance as I just like to know the max weight but in the middle of the tank is probably best for racing. All of the cars Iíve had the fuel hasnít effected the balancing EXCEPT the murcielago which apparently doesnít balance the fuel between both sides of the car.


That's why I was saying balance it with 5/8 tank, it cuts the differential down. If you balance it with a full tank, you have a maximum differential. I figured you probably don't go below 1/4 tank, split the difference and use that as your 0 point. Yeah it's a little off with a full tank, but it cuts the 'change' effect in half.


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DarrinB
post Jan 11 2018, 01:58 PM
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QUOTE (Lambofan35 @ Jan 11 2018, 01:11 AM) *
No you shouldnít. The car sat on a boat or plane to get here and Iíd say thatís enough.

On another interesting note, iíd Changed seats or batteries for lightweight ones and its changed the dynamic of the corner balancing as well as the little less weight raised the car as well. Itís strange but the closer to the center of the cars gravity as the weight shifts, it can effect things strangely.

For Fuel, I always fill it up when i corner balance as I just like to know the max weight but in the middle of the tank is probably best for racing. All of the cars Iíve had the fuel hasnít effected the balancing EXCEPT the murcielago which apparently doesnít balance the fuel between both sides of the car.



im saying wait for the new novitec springs to settle



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