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McLaren sold almost as many cars as Lamborghini..


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Hmmm...I'd be a bit skeptical but I would bet that that McLaren has to be including deposits for 570S as "units sold." They were struggling before the 570S and though it's the entry level car, it seems a little out there that they could make up that many units actually moved in that short a time span.

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I really don't care who sells more or less but if you want to compare apples with apples you have to look at total volume of sales in $$$, consider the RRP per unit, Aventador is twice the price, smaller market harder to sell, they have a model which sells under the Huracan and one at the Huracan's price point, hardly fair comparing units sold.

 

Having said that I am very happy that Mclaren is on the up and up, they really deserve it.

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I really don't care who sells more or less but if you want to compare apples with apples you have to look at total volume of sales in $$$, consider the RRP per unit, Aventador is twice the price, smaller market harder to sell, they have a model which sells under the Huracan and one at the Huracan's price point, hardly fair comparing units sold.

 

:iamwithstupid: Mclaren's don't thrill me, so I'd rather see them stick to top-end Hypercars like the F1 and P1. The MP4-12C killed a lot of the magic that the brand had I feel, and it's only gotten worse with the evolution, the exception being, the P1. The 675LT is the best of these efforts, but still a far cry from the P1.

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Competition improves the segment. McLaren's mere presence helps Lamborghini and others out.

 

Having said that, I think they are trying to position themselves in too many segments.

 

I'd figure they have the panache to not try to be a British Porsche.

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:iamwithstupid: Mclaren's don't thrill me, so I'd rather see them stick to top-end Hypercars like the F1 and P1. The MP4-12C killed a lot of the magic that the brand had I feel, and it's only gotten worse with the evolution, the exception being, the P1. The 675LT is the best of these efforts, but still a far cry from the P1.

 

It's a matter of opinion but the 675LT is an outstanding vehicle, the best in the segment in my opinion (although in fairness we haven't seen these versions of the Huracan and 488 yet) I think that the 675LT is 9/10s of the car that the P1 is. In fact, I didn't end up buying the P1 because it felt too similar to my 675LT.

 

McLaren should be proud of the product they've created. They're right up there with, and sometimes ahead of, their much longer established competitors.

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They have made mistakes but if you look at the history of the current "mainstream" elite car brands they have all had issues.

What they are not given credit for is how quickly they have got to where they are.

Mclaren stretched the budget they had but have produced effectively a three vehicle line up that challenges exceptionally well in their respective segments. How much would it cost Ferrari or Lambo to produce the cars they do from scratch?

 

 

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They have made mistakes but if you look at the history of the current "mainstream" elite car brands they have all had issues.

What they are not given credit for is how quickly they have got to where they are.

Mclaren stretched the budget they had but have produced effectively a three vehicle line up that challenges exceptionally well in their respective segments. How much would it cost Ferrari or Lambo to produce the cars they do from scratch?

 

Three segments using the same basic engine....smart move but nothing is bespoke.

 

That said, they don't have a massive parts bins to draw from, leveraged engineering from siblings or corporate purchasing power behind them either. Outside the P1, Ferrari and Lamborghini have more compelling offerings.

 

QUOTE (Supercar Ace @ Jan 10 2017, 12:10 AM) *

iamwithstupid.gif Mclaren's don't thrill me, so I'd rather see them stick to top-end Hypercars like the F1 and P1. The MP4-12C killed a lot of the magic that the brand had I feel, and it's only gotten worse with the evolution, the exception being, the P1. The 675LT is the best of these efforts, but still a far cry from the P1.

 

 

 

Competing annually only in the hyper car market would mean production volumes along the lines of Bugatti, Pagani and the Egg. Makes no sense when they have the resources to do more. Higher volumes lead to stability and sustainable profitability. If they only stick with sport cars and not branch out into real 4 seat GTs and SUVs, selling more than 3,000 to 4,000 cars a year on a consistent basis will be a stretch.

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:iamwithstupid: Mclaren's don't thrill me, so I'd rather see them stick to top-end Hypercars like the F1 and P1. The MP4-12C killed a lot of the magic that the brand had I feel, and it's only gotten worse with the evolution, the exception being, the P1. The 675LT is the best of these efforts, but still a far cry from the P1.

 

How do you compare a 1.5 million dollar car to a 400k car? We don't compare the Huracan to the Centenario. That said, the 675 is a ton of car. for 1/3 the price of a P1.

 

The company is a very "young" company in regards to being in this market segment. Look at Ferrari and Lamborghini in the '80s, it was a shit show for the most part. McLaren made some mistakes coming up, everyone knew that they would. That said, look at the 12C in comparison to a Lamborghini LP product car. It will suck the doors off of it performance wise, it has an all carbon tub which neither Lambo or Ferrari has in that segment, was the first to use turbos and has gotten several accolades regarding the powerplant, and it also does 26mpg on the highway.

 

The company cannot survive building a handful of hypercars. It has to be more mainstream. If you had made this assertion regarding the 570, I would agree more. That car seems pretty steep for 235k. Almost seems like they jumped the shark on that chassis.

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How do you compare a 1.5 million dollar car to a 400k car? We don't compare the Huracan to the Centenario. That said, the 675 is a ton of car. for 1/3 the price of a P1.

 

McLaren made that comparison with their entry into the road car market with the F1, a $900K hypercar going up against $250k Diablo's and $450K F50s. It would be like if Lamborghini came out with the Centenario and then a few years later made the Huracan. That said, I think my context was mistook...I think the 675LT is a spectacular car from the numbers, but my key phrase is "McLaren's don't thrill me" which means I don't find them appealing outside of the F1 and P1. The 675LT could do 300mph and I'd still be in the P1 and F1 camp...that's just my two cents. The perspective I'm coming from is my first intro to McLaren was the F1, which the numbers and spec is still pure insanity by modern standards back in the 90's. So after 15 years such an icon, when the MP4-12C came out, for me it was a let down because the F1 pushed all boundaries, won LeMans, and set the bar for King of the Cars. The MP4-12C was a departure from being King, instead it's aim was to be a valiant knight. So as a fan of the brand the MP4, 650 and especially the 570S feel like brand dilutions to me from that view as well as the from the fact that having driven them they aren't exciting (to me) from the way they drive. Yes they are quick, but they aren't "fun" like a Ferrari or Lamborghini or BMW which feels way more "alive" to me based on the driving characteristics.

 

The company is a very "young" company in regards to being in this market segment. Look at Ferrari and Lamborghini in the '80s, it was a shit show for the most part. McLaren made some mistakes coming up, everyone knew that they would. That said, look at the 12C in comparison to a Lamborghini LP product car. It will suck the doors off of it performance wise, it has an all carbon tub which neither Lambo or Ferrari has in that segment, was the first to use turbos and has gotten several accolades regarding the powerplant, and it also does 26mpg on the highway.

 

I'm not doubting McLaren's business prowess. Despite the fact that they have made a lot of mistakes I think they've learned and adapted. But also look at when they entered the market...You can't compare Ferrari and Lambo in the 80's to McLaren operating in the 2010's...Apples and Oranges with a 30-year gap. If McLaren built road cars in the 80s what would they have been like, I wonder? Also, you have to look at the purpose and aim as well, Lamborghini has never been about making the best racing machine, they aim purely to make the world's most exciting road car, which I think they do. McLaren is basically a British version of Porsche...they are aiming for the ultimate track weapon that's sole purpose is about lap times. The MP4, 650S, and 675LT is built specifically to destroy lap times like the Viper ACR. The LP640, Aventador, and Aventador SV don't give a sh*t about setting lap times (ironically even though the Aventador SV crushed it on the ring) they are about giving the driver the ultimate thrill in something that looks insane. McLaren builds cars for a particular type of driver, and for me I'm not that, because I care about the experience as a whole, not the 10 tenths I'm shaving off my last lap on the track.

 

The company cannot survive building a handful of hypercars. It has to be more mainstream. If you had made this assertion regarding the 570, I would agree more. That car seems pretty steep for 235k. Almost seems like they jumped the shark on that chassis.

 

I agree 100% with you there. In order to survive in the road car game they needs to move units. F1's and P1's are great, but they are seldom a viable model. The 570S is a bit over priced but you're paying for the exotic looks and some exclusivity, so I get it. I was disappointed when I drove it because I was hoping it'd be more fun and playful. I drove the Huracan spyder right before and those two cars are night and day. The Huracan was fun, lively, a bit refined, but loud and playful. the 570S was focused, more serious and zippy.

 

As I've said before, McLaren's don't thrill me (except for the F1 and P1) but I do have an appreciation for them. And as a company they took a risk but have made some smart moves. But I'm a diehard Lambo guy so give me a solid V12 SV of some sort and I'll take it over any McLaren, any day, any time any place.

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I agree 100% with you there. In order to survive in the road car game they needs to move units. F1's and P1's are great, but they are seldom a viable model. The 570S is a bit over priced but you're paying for the exotic looks and some exclusivity, so I get it. I was disappointed when I drove it because I was hoping it'd be more fun and playful. I drove the Huracan spyder right before and those two cars are night and day. The Huracan was fun, lively, a bit refined, but loud and playful. the 570S was focused, more serious and zippy.

 

As I've said before, McLaren's don't thrill me (except for the F1 and P1) but I do have an appreciation for them. And as a company they took a risk but have made some smart moves. But I'm a diehard Lambo guy so give me a solid V12 SV of some sort and I'll take it over any McLaren, any day, any time any place.

 

Are you including the F1 in that discussion? That's a crazy V12 from the past! :icon_super:

 

If suppose McLaren was bought out by Mercedes-Benz the same way Volkswagen bought Bugatti, they could in theory just make P1s and whatever else they want to make and not have to be in too many segments. In some ways I feel McLaren should be more bespoke than it is, and this would be how to accomplish it.

 

McLaren should probably worry less about lap times and more on building a British mid engine Ferrari, just like Aston Martin is a British front engine Ferrari.

 

15-20 years ago, the Aston Martin DB7 was a poor man's Ferrari 550/575 Maranello. As time progressed their DB9, Vanquish, DBS, Vantage, DB11, etc. all became very nice cars of their own no longer a poor man's anything. All of them are better looking than the Maranello and 599, and you could argue the F12 as well possibly. Interiors were more lush as opposed to being sporty.

 

What's an Aston Martin? Basically the ultimate gentleman's sports car, where luxury and refinement take priority over extreme performance. More luxurious/refined than a Ferrari, more sporty than a Bentley.

 

McLaren has to figure out what it wants to be and then just make that. Ferrari is most similar since they compete in F1....don't see trying to tread on Lamborghini territory.

 

On a mass produced level, there is no peer to Lamborghini. The type of extreme car they make can't be duplicated by others in high volume. Pagani, Koenigsegg on a hypercar level you could possibly compare to Lamborghini, but that's a different segment altogether.

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Congrats to McLaren for their amazing accomplishment!

On regards as to why they sold as many as they did we have to take a look at their range of cars.

 

They have 3 ranges, which is Sports, Super and Ultimate. In Sports range you have the 570S, 540C, 570GT, soon to be joined by 540C and 570 Spyders. Not to mention that range will expand even further when the LT versions of those cars drop.

 

In the Super range you have the outgoing 650S, 650S Spyder, LT versions of those and countless of Special Editions (LM, Carbon Series, HS etc) which surpass the number of Lamborghini`s special edition game these days.

 

Ultimate range is supposed to be just the P1 right? Actually no, even the P1 has different variations, like the GTR, Carbon Series etc.

 

Here is where the differences between Lambo and Mac are today, you don`t see Lamborghini doing Carbon Series of Aventador SVs. They are done at Coupe and Spyder plus a High End model of each and maybe a special edition here and there. In Huracan`s case there are 4 versions at the moment, soon to be joined by another 2 (Performante, Coupe and Spyder) plus a special edition here and there. Then you have bespoke models like the Centenario who help fund the SUV project. (Same for McLaren with the X-1 and soon the 3 Seater)

 

McLaren is doing what Lamborghini was doing 7 or more years back. Remember the countless editions of Gallardos and Murcielagos? That`s where Mac is now. They are expanding heavily. Putting "Limited" on your special, special products sells them like hot cakes too.

 

Another thing to take into account is the publicity McLaren is getting. There are plenty of YouTubers who own them and share them with their audience. No offence to the owners, but on another forum there is a running gag that McLarens are the perfect cars for people who talk to the camera. This is also an advantage that Lamborghini, Porsche and Ferrari didn`t have in their early days, the internet.

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The company cannot survive building a handful of hypercars. It has to be more mainstream. If you had made this assertion regarding the 570, I would agree more. That car seems pretty steep for 235k. Almost seems like they jumped the shark on that chassis.

 

 

The 570S is a bit over priced but you're paying for the exotic looks and some exclusivity, so I get it. I was disappointed when I drove it because I was hoping it'd be more fun and playful. I drove the Huracan spyder right before and those two cars are night and day. The Huracan was fun, lively, a bit refined, but loud and playful. the 570S was focused, more serious and zippy.

 

The 570 has a base price of $188k. I my mind, I find it to be a TON of car for that money, particularly versus a boring Turbo S which is its primary peer. I can't, for the life of me, understand why anyone would ever (1) pay over $200k for a 911 Turbos S and (2) not be immediately shamed for not buying a 570 instead. Maybe the P car guys just love their rear seats?

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The 570 has a base price of $188k. I my mind, I find it to be a TON of car for that money, particularly versus a boring Turbo S which is its primary peer. I can't, for the life of me, understand why anyone would ever (1) pay over $200k for a 911 Turbos S and (2) not be immediately shamed for not buying a 570 instead. Maybe the P car guys just love their rear seats?

 

I agree with this. The thing is though, I have never seen a 570s for less than 200k. When I was at Motorcars looking at them, the sticker was around 235k. Amazing what they get for options these days, and I don't think they have ever met an option they didn't like, or didn't want to "a la Carte".

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How do you compare a 1.5 million dollar car to a 400k car? We don't compare the Huracan to the Centenario. That said, the 675 is a ton of car. for 1/3 the price of a P1.

 

The company is a very "young" company in regards to being in this market segment. Look at Ferrari and Lamborghini in the '80s, it was a shit show for the most part. McLaren made some mistakes coming up, everyone knew that they would. That said, look at the 12C in comparison to a Lamborghini LP product car. It will suck the doors off of it performance wise, it has an all carbon tub which neither Lambo or Ferrari has in that segment, was the first to use turbos and has gotten several accolades regarding the powerplant, and it also does 26mpg on the highway.

 

The company cannot survive building a handful of hypercars. It has to be more mainstream. If you had made this assertion regarding the 570, I would agree more. That car seems pretty steep for 235k. Almost seems like they jumped the shark on that chassis.

 

 

Totally agree! I have to admit if the McClaren held its value I would be driving a McClaren rather than my 2007 LP640. I love the LP640 but driving that then a example below like a 2014 with 2k miles and newer technology, better shifting and braking, and a car that handles better than the LP just makes more sense....BUT the only reason I will not do the 2014 McClaren over for example my car or a same priced 2009 LP640 (links below) is because the LP640 are holding their value while the McClaren has shown in the past to clearly depreciate too fast for me. With that said I am extremely impressed with McClaren and I know the local Scottsdale McClaren dealer sells a ton of their cars. I see a lot more McClarens around town now than Lambos. The 675LT is just an amazing car for the money. Definitely would be hard pressed if I had the choice between that and an Aventador. These are the only two manufacturers I would buy from right now at this price point.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-Lamborghini-M...em=122281836317

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-McLaren-MP4-1...em=132025627311

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Totally agree! I have to admit if the McClaren held its value I would be driving a McClaren rather than my 2007 LP640. I love the LP640 but driving that then a example below like a 2014 with 2k miles and newer technology, better shifting and braking, and a car that handles better than the LP just makes more sense....BUT the only reason I will not do the 2014 McClaren over for example my car or a same priced 2009 LP640 (links below) is because the LP640 are holding their value while the McClaren has shown in the past to clearly depreciate too fast for me. With that said I am extremely impressed with McClaren and I know the local Scottsdale McClaren dealer sells a ton of their cars. I see a lot more McClarens around town now than Lambos. The 675LT is just an amazing car for the money. Definitely would be hard pressed if I had the choice between that and an Aventador. These are the only two manufacturers I would buy from right now at this price point.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-Lamborghini-M...em=122281836317

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-McLaren-MP4-1...em=132025627311

 

I agree, the 12 cylinder car has reached the bottom of its depreciation curve, and could be on the uptick. The Mac, while far more advanced and much faster and more nimble, is going the opposite direction.

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Totally agree! I have to admit if the McClaren held its value I would be driving a McClaren rather than my 2007 LP640. I love the LP640 but driving that then a example below like a 2014 with 2k miles and newer technology, better shifting and braking, and a car that handles better than the LP just makes more sense....BUT the only reason I will not do the 2014 McClaren over for example my car or a same priced 2009 LP640 (links below) is because the LP640 are holding their value while the McClaren has shown in the past to clearly depreciate too fast for me. With that said I am extremely impressed with McClaren and I know the local Scottsdale McClaren dealer sells a ton of their cars. I see a lot more McClarens around town now than Lambos. The 675LT is just an amazing car for the money. Definitely would be hard pressed if I had the choice between that and an Aventador. These are the only two manufacturers I would buy from right now at this price point.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-Lamborghini-M...em=122281836317

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-McLaren-MP4-1...em=132025627311

 

That 2009 has an accident on the Carfax - a clean one should have a higher asking...

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Are you including the F1 in that discussion? That's a crazy V12 from the past! :icon_super:

 

The only F1 I'll take is the F1 LM, as it is my favorite car they've ever made ad the only F1 I really want. As for the rest I'll take an Aventador SV all day any day.

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The only F1 I'll take is the F1 LM, as it is my favorite car they've ever made ad the only F1 I really want. As for the rest I'll take an Aventador SV all day any day.

 

This is one of the most ridiculous posts I have ever seen. Is there a way to move a single post to the "dreamers" section?

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This is one of the most ridiculous posts I have ever seen. Is there a way to move a single post to the "dreamers" section?

 

Embrace the insanity. I don't know if you've experienced the F1 but most people, it's not that fun. It's cramped, the car has no driving aids which makes getting on the gas a bit scary at times and mystique wears off pretty quickly. With the LM, it's essentially an LeMans race car so I can forgive that, plus the high downforce bits look better and would enhance driver confidence. Cars are all personal preference, for some people nothing comes before the F1. For others they would never take one, something like a Zonda or Centenario or Veyron is more appealing. Like Jeremy Clarkson, for example, doesn't like the F1 and absolutely hates the Ferrari F50. For me, the F1 is an amazing machine, but my personal preference is I'd still rather have an Aventador SV, which in my book, looks better, sounds better, and I could live with more. The LM I love kinda in the way many love the Porsche 917 LeMans car...it's a race car cut and dry and it's got a cool story behind it. My biggest issue is price, where an SV is between $520-$650K and the F1 LM is probably around $13 - $16 million. Not to mention the $60K+ service every 6 months to keep the thing running. Even if money was no issue, I'd still go Aventador SV...that car speaks to me way more than the F1 does. I saw two on the road last night and I paused mid conversation to oggle them...the SV speaks to me. Most purist would kill for a Ferrari 250 GTO, but that car doesn't speak to me. I have a respect for it and like it, but I have no desire to ever actually have one. It's all personal preference. As stated I'm a diehard Lambo guy, so I'd take an Aventador SV over a McLaren F1, F1 GTR, F1 GTR Long Tail, MP4-12C, MP4-12C Spyder, 650S, 650S Spyder, 675LT, 675LT Spyder, 540S, 570S, 570GT, P1, P1 GTR, or P1 LM. But I'll take an F1 LM over an Aventador SV.

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All valid points. Each to their own. McLarens are excellent, capable cars. No arguement from me. However, in my opinion...

*McLarens (& Porsches) move the body (yes, very very quickly), but Lamborghinis (also) move the soul.

 

*McLarens other than the P1 & F1 that is..

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