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> Super Trofeo Stradale Coolant Problem, There is a problem that they don't want you to know about
SuperBee
post Aug 14 2012, 06:38 PM
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Thanks ifor the confirmation.


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Bradley "SuperBee" Silverbush
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SuperBee
post Aug 17 2012, 03:54 AM
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QUOTE (SuperBee @ Aug 14 2012, 06:38 PM) *
Thanks ifor the confirmation.


Here, by way of emails (copied below), is my update. Bottom line, they swapped out the thermostat and "re-orented" the oil coller valve." I get the car back today. If it ran 107 at 4-6000 RPM on a 20 inute drive that saw "mostly 2nd and 3rd gear," what do you think wil happen when I really drive it?
Here are my ast three emails. Note, that neither the dealer nor Lamborghini seem to want to put anything in writing.

From: Silverbush, Bradley S.
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 5:55 PM
To: 'Scott Resnick'; 'William L. MacKeigan'
Cc: 'Bryan Ware'; 'Jeff Drajin(jeff.drajin@manhattanmotorcars.com)'; Krukierek, Analia; Pensabene, Michael A.; 'Kirshtein Jonathan'
Subject: RE: STS coolant gauge

Scott:

I just spoke to Jonathan, the LAMBO USA rep who came down from Boston to "oversee" the repair to my STS coolant problem. I spoke to him directly.
He said that the thermostat was replaced and oil valve "re-oriented" (does that mean it was in the wrong position to begin with?). He said that the work went "problem free" and that he tested the car by driving up the west side to Dykman Street, and back. He said he did 4-6000 rpm in mostly 2nd and 3rd gear.
I asked him if he was serious. How is THAT going to test out the coolant temp? I specifically told everyone that the car had to be driven hard and fast to test the coolant, and you didn't. But that's not the worst part of the conversation. The worst is that he said that the coolant was at an "acceptable" 107.

107? At 4-6000 rpm? After a 20 minute jaunt? If it's 107 after 20 minutes at 4-6000 rpm, imagine where it will be after a 20 minute track session? And it will be so.
Come on guys....seriously?

The added insult was when he said not to worry because "I have the new radiators in my back pocket." You mean the ones that won't ship until next month, possibly could be installed in October, and MIGHT address the problem?
I told him the fact is that I have a car that can't be driven the way it's supposed to, and I most certainly can't track it. It is very troublesome to me. I told him "you don't need a crystal ball to see where this is headed. The sad part is that I'm not looking to dump the car, but you're giving me little choice."
Clearly, there is problem with this car. A problem that was not disclosed to me, and affects my use of the car. It prevents me from using the car as intended. But, I’ll take it out this weekend, and see for myself.

Yes, I'll run it hard this weekend, and see for myself. And then, I’ll send a follow-up email.


Bradley Scott Silverbush
ROSENBERG&ESTIS,P.C.
733 Third Avenue | New York, New York 10017
(212) 551-8409 (Direct Phone) | (212) 551-8484 (Fax)
bsilverbush@rosenbergestis.com | www.rosenbergestis.com
http://www.rosenbergestis.com/Attorney-Pro...ilverbush.shtml


THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE IS ATTORNEY PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY NAMED ABOVE. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, OR THE EMPLOYEE OR AGENT RESPONSIBLE TO DELIVER IT TO THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS COMMUNICATION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS COMMUNICATION IN ERROR, PLEASE IMMEDIATELY NOTIFY US BY TELEPHONE, AND RETURN THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE TO US AT THE ABOVE ADDRESS VIA RETURN EMAIL. THANK YOU

From: Silverbush, Bradley S.
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 4:18 PM
To: 'Scott Resnick'; 'William L. MacKeigan'
Cc: 'Bryan Ware'; 'Jeff Drajin(jeff.drajin@manhattanmotorcars.com)'; Krukierek, Analia; Pensabene, Michael A.; 'Kirshtein Jonathan'
Subject: RE: STS coolant gauge
Importance: High

Scott:

I just spoke to Jonathan from Lamborghini U.S.A. He says that the new thermostat has arrived, and he is going to assist in the installation tomorrow. Not sure why it couldn’t be done today (no explanation was offered in our phone call). I have terrible feelings about this, as l will explain below.

First, it is now apparent to me that Lamborghini was well aware of a problem with the STS cooling system, that they failed to disclose, when I bought the car. HAD I KNOW OF THIS PROBLEM, I WOULD NEVER HAVE BOUGHT THE CAR. In my opinion, a fraud was committed by the intentional failure to disclose the fact that they had a known coolant issue. It is hard for me to get past the fact that I traded in a perfectly good working SL, that I never had a single problem with, and paid a lot more money, for what has been a major concern for me. I have spent hours on this, and suffered a fair amount of needless anxiety.

Second, I already know from my friend who has an STS and had his thermostat replaced, that the replacement MADE NO DIFFERENCE, WHATSOEVER. In this regard, Jonathan admitted that this is NOT an STS-specific thermostat, and NOT a specific fix for the STS coolant problem. Rather, it is a hope, that the installation will somehow help resolve this issue. Let’s not kid ourselves; we both know that this is not going to be the be-all fix for this problem. No, the problem will persist. Has this methodology been attempted on any other STS? Jonathan couldn’t say.

Third, the new radiators won’t be available until October, and we all know what that means. Many more weeks of anxiety (driving while worrying about the car overheating) and not being able to drive the car as intended, along with the possibility of the car overheating with potential damage to the head gasket. Indeed, my fellow STS owner informed me that Lamborghini suggested to help the problem that he not shift the car so late (i.e., shift at lower rpm’s). I will take anyone to task for making such an absurd suggestion to me, should they dare do so. That is not a solution; that is a work-around, and a piss-poor one for a race car. Shifting at lower rpm’s? How low do you want to go? The rev limiter says 6000 rpm, MAX once the coolant temperature gets too high. A plethora of expletives comes to mind.

Fourth, Jonathan wants to “test drive” my car after the installation of the new thermostat. While I initially said yes, I am thinking better of it. I want to see, for myself, what is going on. And seriously, why would I let some guy I never even met, take off in my $300,000 car, who is going to try to get the car to overheat by running it hard on NYC streets and highways (i.e., bad pavement) during a work day when there is tons of traffic? Is that something I should do? I’m not sure. Let me try to picture this: he is going to beat the hell out of my car to try to get it to overheat?

I am disgusted by this whole event. I have a pit in my stomach. And there is no easy way out, is there? The thermostat will be replaced, I have no option; but, it won’t make a difference. I’ll be stuck with a car I can’t use as intended until the radiators are replaced, sometime in October (if I’m lucky…right?). Then, the car will come in again, the bumper removed, and radiators replaced. Jonathan acknowledged that we don’t know for certain that this will even be a permanent fix.

Bottom line? I bought a $300,000 car that can’t be used the way it should, that has had a problem that Lamborghini knew of, but failed to disclose to me, and it has been in the shop for quite a few days already. Sounds like there should have been a recall sent out already, but Lamborghini is not ready to do so. I suppose that is because no sure-fix has been developed yet, and they don’t want this to get out. From their point of view, I fully understand. From mine: this REALLY sucks.

Bradley Scott Silverbush
ROSENBERG&ESTIS,P.C.
733 Third Avenue | New York, New York 10017
(212) 551-8409 (Direct Phone) | (212) 551-8484 (Fax)
bsilverbush@rosenbergestis.com | www.rosenbergestis.com
http://www.rosenbergestis.com/Attorney-Pro...ilverbush.shtml


THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE IS ATTORNEY PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY NAMED ABOVE. IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, OR THE EMPLOYEE OR AGENT RESPONSIBLE TO DELIVER IT TO THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS COMMUNICATION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS COMMUNICATION IN ERROR, PLEASE IMMEDIATELY NOTIFY US BY TELEPHONE, AND RETURN THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE TO US AT THE ABOVE ADDRESS VIA RETURN EMAIL. THANK YOU

From: Silverbush, Bradley S.
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 10:34 AM
To: 'Scott Resnick'; 'William L. MacKeigan'
Cc: 'Bryan Ware'; 'Jeff Drajin(jeff.drajin@manhattanmotorcars.com)'; Krukierek, Analia; Pensabene, Michael A.
Subject: RE: STS coolant gauge
Importance: High

BTW, I have been speaking with many experts, one of whom is an engineer friend of mine, well versed in aerodynamics and everything automobile related (who has looked at the front bumper and scoops). He drew a quick diagram , and noted “I have exaggerated the angles to make a point. If I remember correctly, air stops adhering to the surface it flows over and detaches at around 12 degrees or 15 degrees, at which point turbulence begins to occur.” He added the following in trying to diagnose the cause of the overheating problem: “it seems like it's the top section that would cause turbulence inhibiting flow of air to the radiators.” Conclusion: possible design flaw of the nose/scoops is preventing the air from properly reaching the radiators when the car is driving at high speed. Support for this conclusion also comes from the fact that (1) the car never overheats at idle (a fact that your service techs proved this week), (2) the temp reaches over 105 when the car is driven fast, but not hard, and (3) the car overheats when it is driven very fast and hard.
If it really is a design flaw, this can only end one way. Obviously, I hope that I am wrong


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Bradley "SuperBee" Silverbush
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Lambofan35
post Aug 17 2012, 09:46 AM
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I give you big credit for chasing after this issue. You could single handly change the STS program across the world if word gets out your car keeps overheating and is a normal issue with the STS. I'm sure they will fix the issue eventually but at what cost to reputation and will they have to fix other STS cars?
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SuperBee
post Aug 18 2012, 06:01 AM
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QUOTE (Lambofan35 @ Aug 17 2012, 10:46 AM) *
icon_thumleft.gif icon_pidu.gif
I give you big credit for chasing after this issue. You could single handly change the STS program across the world if word gets out your car keeps overheating and is a normal issue with the STS. I'm sure they will fix the issue eventually but at what cost to reputation and will they have to fix other STS cars?


This is so depressing. Here is a copy of the email I sent to the dealer and the Lamborghini USA rep today:

As you know, I picked up my car after work yesterday. I drove it, without pushing, for over an hour, (in Sport, and shifting between 4-6000 RPM). My observation is that the problem is worse than ever. Whereas the car was “normally” running hot (100+), now it is “normally” running at 105+ and, most of the time, at 107 (which Jonathan himself confirmed when he test drove my car on Thursday). Jonathan now insists that this temperature (107) is “acceptable” for the STS. That is simply absurd. If overheating begins at 115 (as indicated on the gauge), and a mere 8 degrees higher is overheating, you’re going to tell me that 107, without pushing the car, is “normal,” and acceptable? Also, in his earlier email (copied below), he stated “LP550-560-570 will run from 90 to 105 and is normal.” Even if that were true (and we all know that anything above 90 on an average day without pushing the car is abnormal), we are outside of that range, and that is AFTER you addressed the problem this week. Moreover, by Jonathan’s own admission, my car is consistently running above normal, without being pushed. This is a problem which you have been unable to correct (and a problem that Lamborghini was aware of, and failed to disclose to me prior to purchase, and a problem that Lamborghini has tried to belittle). Jonathan said he has “new radiators” to install, hopefully in October. This is not acceptable.

As an aside, I observe that the gauge will drop a few degrees (from 107 to104) when the car is stopped. That appears to give credence to my engineer’s theory that there is a design flaw in the nose; that turbulence is created, which inhibits air flow to the radiators.

I will put the car through its paces tomorrow, and see how it responds. But, if it overheats, as I suspect it will, I will bring the car back, as it does me little good to have a car that is overheating, and which is possible causing damage to the engine or other components.


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Bradley "SuperBee" Silverbush
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Vahid
post Aug 18 2012, 09:18 AM
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Bradley, I completely understand your frustration! Actually, if I come to a full stop, my temperature rises even higher because of how hot the weather is! When I hit the 120 mark, my A/C fails as well! So yes components are also failing as a result of the overheating issue.

Lets just hope that the R&D guys come here as they promised and I hope the new radiators will do the job. This way I can at least give you a peace of mind if the new design does the trick.

If not, then I guess we have an attorney who can do the trick for all the STS owners! wink.gif
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jhbchess
post Aug 19 2012, 08:36 AM
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My Performante was running @ 105 yesterday in normal freeway drivng. I just had an oil change, coolant replacement, and a/c service last week. I'll run it a bit this week and see what my temps are.

There is so much heat on the a/c components because of how they are situated to the headers and engine.

some dealers are also replacing the stock a/c valve with a bigger Audi valve, which is supposed to be producing better a/c performance.


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2017 Porsche Turbo S
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2011 UGR TT Performante (sold)
2007 Gallardo Spyder (sold)
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Chipster
post Aug 19 2012, 12:23 PM
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Could have sworn I passed a car that looked identical to yours a couple hours ago on the 405 South of LA but your sig says NY.


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15 Toyota Tundra Platinum -7" BDS, FUEL wheels and 37s, Total Chaos UCAs, MBRP
67 Cadillac DeVille Coupe, custom, bagged, glass packs, white walls
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91 Diablo - 19/19" Work VS - SP Eng Intakes - Fabspeed - SOLD
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speed2
post Aug 19 2012, 05:21 PM
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QUOTE (SuperBee @ Aug 18 2012, 10:01 AM) *
This is so depressing. Here is a copy of the email I sent to the dealer and the Lamborghini USA rep today:

As you know, I picked up my car after work yesterday. I drove it, without pushing, for over an hour, (in Sport, and shifting between 4-6000 RPM). My observation is that the problem is worse than ever. Whereas the car was “normally” running hot (100+), now it is “normally” running at 105+ and, most of the time, at 107 (which Jonathan himself confirmed when he test drove my car on Thursday). Jonathan now insists that this temperature (107) is “acceptable” for the STS. That is simply absurd. If overheating begins at 115 (as indicated on the gauge), and a mere 8 degrees higher is overheating, you’re going to tell me that 107, without pushing the car, is “normal,” and acceptable? Also, in his earlier email (copied below), he stated “LP550-560-570 will run from 90 to 105 and is normal.” Even if that were true (and we all know that anything above 90 on an average day without pushing the car is abnormal), we are outside of that range, and that is AFTER you addressed the problem this week. Moreover, by Jonathan’s own admission, my car is consistently running above normal, without being pushed. This is a problem which you have been unable to correct (and a problem that Lamborghini was aware of, and failed to disclose to me prior to purchase, and a problem that Lamborghini has tried to belittle). Jonathan said he has “new radiators” to install, hopefully in October. This is not acceptable.

As an aside, I observe that the gauge will drop a few degrees (from 107 to104) when the car is stopped. That appears to give credence to my engineer’s theory that there is a design flaw in the nose; that turbulence is created, which inhibits air flow to the radiators.

I will put the car through its paces tomorrow, and see how it responds. But, if it overheats, as I suspect it will, I will bring the car back, as it does me little good to have a car that is overheating, and which is possible causing damage to the engine or other components.


Superbee: I was ready to buy a new STS at a Lambo dealer. One of the few new cars, maybe the only new STS still available. After hearing about this issue I walked away from the deal. Also. having owned 3 other Lambo's I have noticed a change in thier attitude about Warranty issues. It seems that they are making it harder for customers to obtain Warranty approval and will try to put you through a lot of crap instead. For me I have had enough of this attitude from Lamborgini/Audi. Had an Aventador in mind but no more. Sorry you had to go through all of that. I haved had some of that with Lambo and Ferrari so it is not just a Lambo issue.
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SuperBee
post Aug 20 2012, 07:13 AM
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QUOTE (speed2 @ Aug 19 2012, 05:21 PM) *
Superbee: I was ready to buy a new STS at a Lambo dealer. One of the few new cars, maybe the only new STS still available. After hearing about this issue I walked away from the deal. Also. having owned 3 other Lambo's I have noticed a change in thier attitude about Warranty issues. It seems that they are making it harder for customers to obtain Warranty approval and will try to put you through a lot of crap instead. For me I have had enough of this attitude from Lamborgini/Audi. Had an Aventador in mind but no more. Sorry you had to go through all of that. I haved had some of that with Lambo and Ferrari so it is not just a Lambo issue.
h
My problem is that there is no other car that I wanted. I don't like the lines on the F-cars, and the Aventador and Murci are just too big. The Mclaren comes close, but the front end is too boring. I need a HOT car that I can track, and is off the charts on the Woody Scale. That leaves the STS.
I pushed it hard yesterday , but with the air temperature at 59, I didn't get the coolant past 105.


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Bradley "SuperBee" Silverbush
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SuperBee
post Aug 21 2012, 03:28 AM
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Attached File  Monticello_Number_1.jpg ( 478.09K ) Number of downloads: 69
My problem is that there is no other car that I wanted. I don't like the lines on the F-cars, and the Aventador and Murci are just too big. The Mclaren comes close, but the front end is too boring. I need a HOT car that I can track, and is off the charts on the Woody Scale. That leaves the STS.
I pushed it hard yesterday , but with the air temperature at 59, I didn't get the coolant past 105.
[/quote]

9/16/2012 I am scheduled to track my STS at Monticello. Let's see how we do. God, how I absolutely love running that course. My favorite shots are from that track, including this one in my 2008 Superleggera (thank you Marta Photography).


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Bradley "SuperBee" Silverbush
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vexster
post Aug 21 2012, 05:13 AM
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QUOTE (SuperBee @ Aug 14 2012, 04:39 AM) *
Thanks for the update! Here' my baby, aptly named "Red."
[attachment=93372:STS_Av_shot.jpg][attachment=93373:STS_Dl_rear_shot.jpg][attach
ment=93374:STS_at_D...ouse__2_.jpg]

that red is epic ! smile.gif

pity the coolant issue though ... was eyeing the sts as a possible next car
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toyroy2003
post Aug 21 2012, 06:50 PM
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I put almost 600 miles on mine last week after taking delivery of it at Monterey for Concorso...I can tell you if this "minor" issue of running hot has kept anyone from buying the car...it is a mistake...the car is hands down the best G car I have ever had the pleasure of operating. My car ran consistently in the 95-105 range, and I oushed it at times. I know several SL 2011 cars that always run at the 100 mark as well with no issues..the great thing is that this minor issue is being taken car off by Lamborghini under warranty...I was already advised of my time frame for the correction to the car. It swhould also be noted that there is no effect waht so ever on the car under normal street conditions....just the heavy spirited great track driving...which this car was ment to double as....I think Lambo just did not figure that part into their engineering and they have now corrected it....not a reason to NOT get this car..but on the other side, good luck getting one...if I am not mistaken I think there is only 2 NEW ones left with Dealers out of the 18 or so that made it to the USA shores...


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SuperBee
post Aug 22 2012, 06:30 AM
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QUOTE (toyroy2003 @ Aug 21 2012, 06:50 PM) *
I put almost 600 miles on mine last week after taking delivery of it at Monterey for Concorso...I can tell you if this "minor" issue of running hot has kept anyone from buying the car...it is a mistake...the car is hands down the best G car I have ever had the pleasure of operating. My car ran consistently in the 95-105 range, and I oushed it at times. I know several SL 2011 cars that always run at the 100 mark as well with no issues..the great thing is that this minor issue is being taken car off by Lamborghini under warranty...I was already advised of my time frame for the correction to the car. It swhould also be noted that there is no effect waht so ever on the car under normal street conditions....just the heavy spirited great track driving...which this car was ment to double as....I think Lambo just did not figure that part into their engineering and they have now corrected it....not a reason to NOT get this car..but on the other side, good luck getting one...if I am not mistaken I think there is only 2 NEW ones left with Dealers out of the 18 or so that made it to the USA shores...


I must add the following: if you are planning to drive the STS is a hot climate (as used here, hot means consistently over 80), or do extensive tracking, you should think twice. At 107, which is where it will more often run in warm weather, you are a mere 8 degrees from overheating. Tracking, the car will overheat. There is NO DOUBT i my opinion, that the is a design problem o defect causing this to occur. I had my thermostat relpaced with their "newly designed" one, and the problem persists. They said that they will order me new, larger, replacement radiators to be installed in October, to further address the problem because, I bought my STS to drive, and to track.
Otherwise, by all means, it is "hands down the best G car."
NOTE: I did drive it VERY hard this past Sunday for three straight hours with an LP570-4 and a turbo-S. My coolant never exceeded 105, but, the air temperature at the time was only 59. Clearly, there is no problem when driving in cooler climates. However, if you talk to the guys in Kuwait and Dubai who drive the STS, they will confirm what I have posted. Make no mistake: there is a problem that they not only have failed to correct, but are officially refusing to acknowledge (despite the newly designed thermostat and radiators). Had I known about this problem, and had they not failed to disclose the problem, I would have bought a McLaren.
Manhattan Motors has one in their showroom, brand new, and available, in Rosso Mars. Call Bryan Ware at 1 (212) 594-0972 and tell him I sent you. It is a gorgeous car.


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Bradley "SuperBee" Silverbush
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RedGTS
post Aug 22 2012, 06:53 AM
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QUOTE (SuperBee @ Aug 20 2012, 11:13 AM) *
h
My problem is that there is no other car that I wanted. I don't like the lines on the F-cars, and the Aventador and Murci are just too big. The Mclaren comes close, but the front end is too boring. I need a HOT car that I can track, and is off the charts on the Woody Scale. That leaves the STS.
I pushed it hard yesterday , but with the air temperature at 59, I didn't get the coolant past 105.


Get the McLaren and put the SP front bumper on it. Looks like an entirely different (and much better) car.


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Fortis
post Aug 22 2012, 06:53 AM
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It is very strange in a 2011 570 I've experienced similar issues once, the second time I kept an eye on the temperature gauge when it started getting up there and backed off.I've never experienced it off the track during thousands of km of driving, very strange.

I put it down to continous low gear hi RPM driving on the track.

Having said that I've attended few drive days using the LP 550-2, we were taking them around the track in groups, the cars did not stop for hours, looked at the temp gauge no issues.

Very strange that the STS and 570, the track oriented models seem to be the ones that are more temp sensitive, for me it isn't a major issue because it never happens on the street.

Why would you be worried, if the car gets to hot it goes into a mode where it limits your RPM until it reaches the desired temp and damage to the engine will be prevented and on top of everything you have a 3 years factory warranty.If it blows up take it in and they will have to give you a new engine, when they get sick of giving you new engines they might address the cooling system issues.

If you do extensive track work I'd consider upgrading the cooling system, not a big deal.
Good luck.
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toyroy2003
post Aug 22 2012, 09:02 AM
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QUOTE (Fortis @ Aug 22 2012, 07:53 AM) *
It is very strange in a 2011 570 I've experienced similar issues once, the second time I kept an eye on the temperature gauge when it started getting up there and backed off.I've never experienced it off the track during thousands of km of driving, very strange.

I put it down to continous low gear hi RPM driving on the track.

Having said that I've attended few drive days using the LP 550-2, we were taking them around the track in groups, the cars did not stop for hours, looked at the temp gauge no issues.

Very strange that the STS and 570, the track oriented models seem to be the ones that are more temp sensitive, for me it isn't a major issue because it never happens on the street.

Why would you be worried, if the car gets to hot it goes into a mode where it limits your RPM until it reaches the desired temp and damage to the engine will be prevented and on top of everything you have a 3 years factory warranty.If it blows up take it in and they will have to give you a new engine, when they get sick of giving you new engines they might address the cooling system issues.

If you do extensive track work I'd consider upgrading the cooling system, not a big deal.
Good luck.



Hit the nail on thehead here...I asked that exact question..."what if it blows up prior to your new fans/radiator etc getting installed in Octoboer" answer..."covered under warranty" and I have to agree..if it gets in the danger zone, it does shut down, so would be almost impossible to cause damage...I for one am not concerned with it...its covered and I am enjoying the car to the fullest..should arrive back here in Seattle on a truck from Monterey with in the hour..then its off for a 2-3 hour Lunch and drive...YAHOOOOOOOO


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Lambofan35
post Aug 22 2012, 09:14 AM
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Its a design situation that is not easy to overcome I believe. Its designed to run hotter than the preLP gallardos because of the direct injection and newer emissions standards BUT that just puts it into a closer danger zone to overheating.

I'm pretty sure by running this newer HOTTER design motor, it still isn't safe to go into the 250 Degree Fahrenheit/122 Degree Celcius which I've always known as "your screwed zone"....it might even be 240 degrees on some motors and still cause damage.
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emanon
post Aug 22 2012, 10:07 AM
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QUOTE (Lambofan35 @ Aug 22 2012, 10:14 AM) *
Its a design situation that is not easy to overcome I believe. Its designed to run hotter than the preLP gallardos because of the direct injection and newer emissions standards BUT that just puts it into a closer danger zone to overheating.


Operating temp and cooling capacity to maintain that desired temp range are two different things. If they want the motor to run at 120C thats fine, providing it has the thermal dissipation capacity to keep it there. Apparently this car does not, and I would bet the guys at lambo won't fess up to the whole story why. I can't imagine them reducing the size of the heat exchangers to save two pounds on the car.

At this rate you wouldn't be able to drive the car in phoenix or LV when it's 110F+ ambient.


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SuperBee
post Aug 22 2012, 11:30 AM
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QUOTE (toyroy2003 @ Aug 22 2012, 10:02 AM) *
Hit the nail on thehead here...I asked that exact question..."what if it blows up prior to your new fans/radiator etc getting installed in Octoboer" answer..."covered under warranty" and I have to agree..if it gets in the danger zone, it does shut down, so would be almost impossible to cause damage...I for one am not concerned with it...its covered and I am enjoying the car to the fullest..should arrive back here in Seattle on a truck from Monterey with in the hour..then its off for a 2-3 hour Lunch and drive...YAHOOOOOOOO

"Why would you be worried, if the car gets to hot it goes into a mode where it limits your RPM until it reaches the desired temp and damage to the engine will be prevented and on top of everything you have a 3 years factory warranty.If it blows up take it in and they will have to give you a new engine, when they get sick of giving you new engines they might address the cooling system issues.

If you do extensive track work I'd consider upgrading the cooling system, not a big deal."

I cannot believe the attitudes exhibited by these emails.
First, not concerned "because it's covered under warranty?" Have you thought this through? Forget about where you are when this happens, the PITA to have it flatbedded,
or how you're going to get home. How about how long it will be before you have your car back? And what if that's in the middle of the year during peak driving months?
Second, "the impossible to cause damage" is incorrect. Excessive heat introduces excessive wear and tear to an engine and it's components. That is an engineering fact. My primary concern related to the head gasket. And what if the rev limiter fails or is inaccurate; damage will most certainly occur.
If you track the car in warm weather, the coolant will overheat, assuming you are really tracking the car, and not just driving it around the track. Not just high rpm's in low gears; driving the car the way you would race any car around a track.
Third, around here, quality track days, at exceptional facilities, are rare and expensive. If I'm driving two hours and spending $1,000 to track, I don't want my rev limiter kicking in because of a problem Lamborghini failed to disclose and has yet to properly address. I don't even want to have to worry about it. I don't need that distraction when I'm working the car through a chicane, around a hairpin, or doing 165MPH+ on a long straightaway.
Fourth, "when they get sick of the problem?" I'm already sick of the problem. There shouldn't be a problem in the first place.
Finally, upgrading a "big deal?" The swap out of the new thermostat left me without my car for nearly two weeks. The radiators will require the front bumper be pulled off the car, and who know how long it will take. Perhaps you feel differently, but don't tell me that pulling my brand new $300,000 car apart to fix the problem isn't a big deal, because it is a VERY big deal to me.


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SuperBee
post Aug 22 2012, 11:34 AM
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QUOTE (Lambofan35 @ Aug 22 2012, 10:14 AM) *
Its a design situation that is not easy to overcome I believe. Its designed to run hotter than the preLP gallardos because of the direct injection and newer emissions standards BUT that just puts it into a closer danger zone to overheating.

I'm pretty sure by running this newer HOTTER design motor, it still isn't safe to go into the 250 Degree Fahrenheit/122 Degree Celcius which I've always known as "your screwed zone"....it might even be 240 degrees on some motors and still cause damage.


The preLP? I compared my STS to my friend's LP560-4. The STS should not run much, if at all, hotter. You are 100% correct that damage can occur at less than the "you're screwed" zone, if very close to that temp for a prolonged period of time.


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