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> Best Ear Buds Ever
rmtn
post Feb 19 2018, 12:32 PM
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biggrin.gif I once tried the airpods that came with iPhone and they were broken right out of the box. Did not matter at all even it was 1000€ phone. I was just thinking "typical". lol
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VCR
post Feb 19 2018, 02:38 PM
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Probably being way too esoteric here but for causal tunes, IEM's do the job but they aren't really too hi-fi per se. The frequency response might be right and some tonal qualities do make the grade. But as far as soundstage and imaging go, they flop completely. And some of these are getting ludicrously $$$ for what they really are. Take one apart and you will probably have an idea. Yes, one might be able to say the same about phono cartridges (some are in 5-figure USD now) but those are a lot more difficult to make as compared to IEM's. There are a lot of limitations on IEM's due to their size and the power required. They have a long way to go yet especially for the wireless ones.
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MrDoctor
post Feb 19 2018, 04:36 PM
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QUOTE (VCR @ Feb 19 2018, 02:38 PM) *
Yes, one might be able to say the same about phono cartridges (some are in 5-figure USD now)


Didn't believe this when I read it . Google searched, got this: https://www.soundstagedirect.com/clearaudio...owaAlc4EALw_wcB

Wow. WTF
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VCR
post Feb 19 2018, 05:02 PM
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QUOTE (MrDoctor @ Feb 19 2018, 04:36 PM) *
Didn't believe this when I read it . Google searched, got this: https://www.soundstagedirect.com/clearaudio...owaAlc4EALw_wcB

Wow. WTF


I kid you not.
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luffy
post Feb 19 2018, 05:13 PM
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I always used mid level sennheiser ear bud headphones but recently got a pair of AKG K3003i IEM. I find the audio quality astonishing but I understand how the reference filters can be fatiguing for extended listening , I still need to try the bass boost filters to see if it helps.
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derphurf
post Feb 19 2018, 07:09 PM
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QUOTE (VCR @ Feb 19 2018, 03:38 PM) *
Probably being way too esoteric here but for causal tunes, IEM's do the job but they aren't really too hi-fi per se. The frequency response might be right and some tonal qualities do make the grade. But as far as soundstage and imaging go, they flop completely. And some of these are getting ludicrously $$$ for what they really are. Take one apart and you will probably have an idea. Yes, one might be able to say the same about phono cartridges (some are in 5-figure USD now) but those are a lot more difficult to make as compared to IEM's. There are a lot of limitations on IEM's due to their size and the power required. They have a long way to go yet especially for the wireless ones.


I prefer lots of my IEMs to my full size headphones. Personally I feel soundstage is overrated. There's a minimum acceptable level for me and then the rest is tuning, separation, impact, decay, isolation, etc.

Have you listened to Campfire Audio Andromeda or 64Audio U16?
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VCR
post Feb 19 2018, 09:51 PM
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QUOTE (derphurf @ Feb 19 2018, 07:09 PM) *
Have you listened to Campfire Audio Andromeda or 64Audio U16?


Not only the Andromeda but the Vega and the Dorado as well. Not bad but not 4-figure "not-bad".
U16?? No I have not...because such a model doesn't exist! lol.gif lol.gif U12t and U18t yes but not U16. I've also tried the tia Trio and Forte. All nice but not several-thousand-dollar nice especially several-thousand-dollar earbuds.

QUOTE (derphurf @ Feb 19 2018, 07:09 PM) *
Personally I feel soundstage is overrated. There's a minimum acceptable level for me and then the rest is tuning, separation, impact, decay, isolation, etc.


lol.gif lol.gif icon_rolleyes.gif I see that you are trying to pull the same trick on the IEM's as your claimed knowledge on cars.
Didn't work on the cars and it wouldn't work here either. Soundstage is overrated?! You know how naive that sounds? (pun intneded) Soundstage in audio is as important as depth of field in vision. Without soundstage, one wouldn't be able to aurally judge distance and width. Do yourself and everyone a favour, either cut the BS or go have a drink at your local bar that features live music. Doesn't matter how well or bad they play, go and experience the soundstage that a live performance offers and then compare that to your favourite buds, cans or whatever you put on your ears. If you still prefer your IEM's, then that's equivalent to saying your prefer the "driving experience" on a PS4 GT Sport / XBox Forsa Motorsport over driving the actual cars. Quit while you can and before you make a fool out of yourself. Wait..., you've done that already so just quit!
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jhbchess
post Feb 20 2018, 08:46 AM
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QUOTE (VCR @ Feb 19 2018, 11:51 PM) *
Quit while you can and before you make a fool out of yourself. Wait..., you've done that already so just quit!




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Fortis
post Feb 20 2018, 12:51 PM
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QUOTE (jhbchess @ Feb 21 2018, 02:46 AM) *


lol.gif

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Smash Boy
post Feb 22 2018, 02:41 PM
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QUOTE (MrDoctor @ Feb 19 2018, 08:36 PM) *
Didn't believe this when I read it . Google searched, got this: https://www.soundstagedirect.com/clearaudio...owaAlc4EALw_wcB

Wow. WTF


There's at least one (if not more) six figure turntable, so naturally elite cartridges can/will be pricey too.

A $50k D/A converter for "analog sounding digital", haha.

Law of diminishing returns still applies, but for the super well heeled audiophile, this is their custom built hyper car.

It still fascinates me how people so jaded by exotic car and hyper car prices seem so shocked at how much audio gear goes for. lol.gif

At the rate audio tech moves versus other tech, what is great now will still be great 30 years from now. It still will be working well with decent maintenance after many years.
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Smash Boy
post Feb 22 2018, 02:53 PM
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As far as derphurf and sound stages, I would concur to a point. Soundstage and imaging for speakers might be a bit overrated.

But in the context of high end sound, speakers kill headphones because this very difference is dramatic (among other things). IEMs are worse still than standard headphones in this regard. Lastly, how often is one really going to have a headphone connected to a proper pre/power amp/DAC/phono chain?

IEMs serve their purpose in the world. They've gotten good enough to provide decent sound and bass with terrific convenience. I do not believe they were capable of this back in the '80s and '90s (VCR?). I scoffed at earbuds in general back then as cheap sound for non enthusiasts. Now they can be ok.

I was one of those kids riding the subways with the big headphones back in high school. Now that's totally unnecessary. icon_mrgreen.gif
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VCR
post Feb 22 2018, 06:59 PM
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QUOTE (Fellippe @ Feb 22 2018, 02:41 PM) *
There's at least one (if not more) six figure turntable, so naturally elite cartridges can/will be pricey too.


Unfortunately, there are quite a few more that's in the 6-figure range. One of them is supposedly designed by an ex-NASA engineer. icon_mrgreen.gif (seriously)


QUOTE (Fellippe @ Feb 22 2018, 02:53 PM) *
As far as derphurf and sound stages, I would concur to a point. Soundstage and imaging for speakers might be a bit overrated.

IEMs serve their purpose in the world. They've gotten good enough to provide decent sound and bass with terrific convenience. I do not believe they were capable of this back in the '80s and '90s (VCR?). I scoffed at earbuds in general back then as cheap sound for non enthusiasts. Now they can be ok.


If you are saying imaging on earbuds/headphones, then there is a certain relevance. I had made several posts saying that the imaging from buds & cans mostly occurs 3" above one's head and I still stand by that. But with the proper recording, the 3D imaging still exists. And there is a difference between imaging and sound stage, derphurf spoke of soundstage. But if you are saying soundstage and imaging for speakers might be a bit overrated, then I must respectfully disagree. Type of speakers and proper placement of the same are crucial to achieve proper imaging and soundstage. You would concur that while the imaging and soundstage of corner horn-loaded speakers is generally good; but due to their sizes and the related room limitations, achieving the ideal can be challenging. So I think that addresses your interpretation of imaging being a bit overrated which, in reality, is not. If we are talking about di-pole and bi-pole speakers, that complicate things substantially and likewise for panel speakers. But it can be achieved. Proper speaker placement to achieve ideal imaging and soundstage is like tuning a carbureted V12 to get proper performance. It's not easy; but once properly done; it's almost magical. And it won't go out of whack after a while like a carb'd V12. However, given any pair of bookshelf speakers, the imaging and soundstage can be dialed in with relative ease and its 3D imaging can be surprisingly good. As a general rule, point source speakers with a narrowed cabinet would be the easiest to achieve proper imaging and soundstage. The narrower the easier.

Earbuds technology didn't really take off until the popularity of MP3 players surfaced. The old Walkman cassette player didn't really have the proper circuitry to drive the headphones or earbuds. And "wearable personal hi-fi system" was only in its infancy at that time. Portable CD players increased the flexibility. Aside from pro gear that musicians and performers wore on stage (most were by Shure, Sennheisers & AKG and were more earpieces than earbuds), Panasonic did come out with something in the late 80's under the Technics name. The fact that it was branded as a Technics product signified that it was something extraordinary as Technics has always made and still makes very reliable and good-sounding pro-gear. It was called the Technics RP-HV100 Digital Stereo Headphones. They were earbuds. "Digital" was more of a marketing jargon as there was nothing digital about them aside from being the ideal earbuds for portable CD players. And interestingly enough, proper working ones still sound quite good even by today's standards. They surface on ebay now and then and they do command quite a premium.
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emanon
post Feb 23 2018, 07:53 AM
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Ok so i've spent some time with the X3 and Sound sports (my wife took the Optomo and I haven't had a chance to really try them yet).

Bose sound better, not even going to contest this one. The Jaybirds have an app so you can tune them and get them close, but they still aren't there. Unfortunately this is the ONLY thing the Bose excel at. Overall the manufacturing quality (some just plain design flaws IMO) is shit. There is a rubber piece on the outside (not the part that goes in your ear) that covers the charge port, and does who the fcuk knows what else. This should have been an overmolded piece that was fixed to the body. It appears to be nothing more than rubber which has been glued in place and will undoubtedly come loose over time. The buttons (power button on the earbud or the three control buttons on the wire) all feel poorly made, don't have great feedback, and again are wrapped in very poor quality rubber. If these things aren't falling apart in 6 months I would be shocked. I definitely expect more for $150-200.

What the jaybirds give up in sound (mostly bass and depth), they make up for 100x in build quality. Not a single thing I can really pick on here. Few stainless steel bits look great and make it feel more durable if nothing else. All the buttons are awesome, very positive detents when you engage them and nothing feels fragile. I can't find a single thing that tells me yep, this is what's going to shit the bed.

My only gripe with the jaybirds is their little proprietary charging dock. Nothing wrong with it, seems to work perfectly well, it's just another thing for me to keep track of, and ultimately lose. I get that a micro-usb is super hard to waterproof but I would have gladly paid more to have the industry standard plug on the earbuds.

The Bose was really a disappointment, I had high expectations and was let down in a big way. They failed the one thing I was hoping for from a "sport" earbud, which is durability. If you don't need that then there are lots of other options that kill Bose in the sound department, so they are floating around in this land of mediocrity. Especially considering the jaybirds are $100, it's an easy choice and the Bose are definitely getting returned. I'll update when I can wrangle the Optomo back from my wife and see how they fare.


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minty99z
post Mar 8 2018, 05:08 PM
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Saw this deal and thought Of this thread today and know nothing about hesdphones but figured it might be worth sharing

https://slickdeals.net/f/11250715-beyerdyna...9-free-shipping
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