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VCR
post Nov 22 2017, 02:44 PM
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QUOTE (Rawr @ Nov 22 2017, 09:04 AM) *
VCR what was that $1500 standalone system(all in one) you recommended awhile back? Still like it, or prefer something else now?

Also, any recommendations for something portable?


I think I was referring to the Naim Mu-So (the long rectangular one, not the the cube one). No, this piece is pretty solid for what it is. Have not come across anything that performs at the same level in that price range and have that stylish looks.

Can you give me more criteria on "portable" please? I.e. boombox, headphone/earbuds only? I gather all the music will be in digital files stored inside the hardware?
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JanDaMan
post Nov 22 2017, 03:14 PM
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VCR, just one more note regarding my Infinity in the photo. Although that middle speaker is shot, I recall buying the kit to repair that bottom speaker years ago. Was pretty easy to do, but I agree that middle speaker is shot and appears to be of different structure than the bottom one. Thats why the bottom speaker still looks good. But time for upgrade anyway.


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JanDaMan
post Nov 22 2017, 04:52 PM
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QUOTE (Fellippe @ Nov 21 2017, 11:23 PM) *
Tinny sound from a car system?

Assuming it's not an actual wiring/equipment deficiency, what you could be referring to is an overabundance of treble/midrange suckout caused by an overly bright tweeter/too much treble boost and/or a high pass crossover on your woofers set too high.

Typically in aftermarket systems in order to make them loud and play hard with a sub, the woofers in your doors are filtered in the 80-100 hertz range (sometimes higher). This means that the filter is removing a majority of the frequencies below that point so the speaker can play with less stress. The higher the frequency chosen, the less bass/midbass you will hear. The idea is that the subs will pick up the bass, but the reality is that you lose "fullness" in your sound when you do this.

It's noticeable even with a subwoofer, and without one it would be brutal.

Depending on your setup, anything from no high pass crossover, up to 60-80 hertz would be ideal. If you don't have a sub you should go without a high pass crossover. And you should install an amp if you don't have one.

My very first ever car system, the shop high passed my 5.25" woofers around 200-300 hz, with my bandpass subs crossed maybe at 80 hz. Nice big gap over there....system had absolutely no midbass and I was still a big newb so I had the treble setting cranked to +3 or +4 (cringeworthy tuning!). lol.gif

It didn't matter in the beginning because the low end pounding novelty was fun. But even then I could tell something was wrong.

So yeah, I once asked on a separate forum about 15 years ago, "Why is my system so trebley?".

Since you say you haven't added an amplifier it's doubtful it might be this, but if you had an aftermarket head unit with built in crossovers, it could be filtered.

Shouldn't be a difficult fix IMO. I'd recommend a good amplifier, run the speakers without any high pass crossovers, and make sure the door install is sufficient (i.e. solid mounting of speaker to door baffle, maybe add some sound deadening like Dynamat).

Also check the treble and bass settings. I'd start with both at the neutral (0) position, and go backwards (negative) for treble and leave bass alone.

Curious what speakers you are using?

Yeah regarding the car stereo, that is disappointing as well. Specs are shown in the photo (cost me $800 a few years ago). It seems that amp has 55 watts x 4 when I looked it up, so I would think that is adequate power. It just seems so wimpy on soul. I was a bit limited on speaker size because it has stock areas for speakers in the back and up on the dash. I turn it up and all it does is get louder. Every time I get in I monkey around with the bass, treble and other things on the Alpine receiver, but it just isn't doing the trick. I turn up the bass and it gets some more bass low end sound, but no soul with it. I will try some of your specific suggestions on adjusting & see what happens. But I am not too concerned about it since its the wifes car I don't drive that snail much anyway. I just hate turning on the unit when I drive it because I then get aggravated about it. Plus she says "don't mess with my car!", so ok with me. I don't know how else to explain what is missing, all I know is when I had my old Mazda RX6 with amp/equalizer below my seat I could have that unit on very low volume and it lit up the "soul". I don't believe modern stuff got worse over time.


Car stereo by JanDaMan, on Flickr


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VCR
post Nov 22 2017, 05:36 PM
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QUOTE (JanDaMan @ Nov 22 2017, 03:14 PM) *
VCR, just one more note regarding my Infinity in the photo. Although that middle speaker is shot, I recall buying the kit to repair that bottom speaker years ago. Was pretty easy to do, but I agree that middle speaker is shot and appears to be of different structure than the bottom one. Thats why the bottom speaker still looks good. But time for upgrade anyway.


Ah ha, that explains it. I was a bit perplexed as to how your midrange unit was completely shot whereas you bass unit seems intact. Yes, the midrange and the bass units are rather different in design and structure. I do not know if a repair kit is still available or not for the midrange but my guess is not hopeful since today's Infinity is no where near where they once were. And it is a 3-decade old technology.
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Smash Boy
post Nov 22 2017, 09:27 PM
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QUOTE (JanDaMan @ Nov 22 2017, 07:52 PM) *
Yeah regarding the car stereo, that is disappointing as well. Specs are shown in the photo (cost me $800 a few years ago). It seems that amp has 55 watts x 4 when I looked it up, so I would think that is adequate power. It just seems so wimpy on soul. I was a bit limited on speaker size because it has stock areas for speakers in the back and up on the dash. I turn it up and all it does is get louder. Every time I get in I monkey around with the bass, treble and other things on the Alpine receiver, but it just isn't doing the trick. I turn up the bass and it gets some more bass low end sound, but no soul with it. I will try some of your specific suggestions on adjusting & see what happens. But I am not too concerned about it since its the wifes car I don't drive that snail much anyway. I just hate turning on the unit when I drive it because I then get aggravated about it. Plus she says "don't mess with my car!", so ok with me. I don't know how else to explain what is missing, all I know is when I had my old Mazda RX6 with amp/equalizer below my seat I could have that unit on very low volume and it lit up the "soul". I don't believe modern stuff got worse over time.


Hate to break it to you bud, but modern stuff did get worse over time.

Not all of it, but a good chunk of it did.

I'd rather have what was considered mid level in 1995 than the high end now. And certainly the high end Nakamichi from back then I'd have over everything old or new.

The one exception are the Milbert tube amps which were great then and great now. Of course they are about $2-3k a pop.

Amplifier wise, older brands I'd pursue Phoenix Gold, Xtant, Orion, Soundstream. The sound will be full, rich, warm, good bass, etc. Installed correctly it should fix your sound.

There are a number of reasons for the downfall, mainly that audio gear is the one exception to the general rule of technology where you can't keep downsizing on parts and expect to get better or even maintain status quo. It's a lot more like cars than it is computers, cell phones, and other electronics.

The "sound" that is considered good by the mainstream is easier to obtain on the cheap. That thin harsh sound that hurts my ears but is billed as "detail"....yeah. lol.gif

Also rap music, while I love it (the old stuff), ruined the sound of subwoofers. Too much emphasis on the very low bass, and then trading off bigger enclosures for longer cone excursion to achieve it, as if that were the brilliant solution. Same low bass but now it's slower than a Mack Truck and sloppy.

BTW home audio did get hit a little bit with these afflictions but not as badly.
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rmtn
post Nov 23 2017, 07:08 AM
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QUOTE (JanDaMan @ Nov 23 2017, 02:52 AM) *
I don't know how else to explain what is missing, all I know is when I had my old Mazda RX6 with amp/equalizer below my seat I could have that unit on very low volume and it lit up the "soul". I don't believe modern stuff got worse over time.



Home audio is often 50% acoustics and 50% gear.
Car audio is at least 80% acoustics and tuning the system to play over come acoustical obstacles, deleting interior modes, implementing proper drivers in proper placement over any gear.
Throwing just money on gear is same as throwing darts in pitch black and without knowing which way the bulls eye is.

I have to say that car audio is partly better nowadays, D-class amps are miracle for car hifi, it just will sound better than turning half of the available capacity into pointless heat. Even cheap headunits can be good in sense of usability for bluetooth or usb connection, just use external amps.
There used to be lots of better headunits like Fellippe said: Nakamichis, McIntosh, Pioneer, etc... but Sony RSX-GS9 is maybe best at the moment. Also most expensive.

To the OP, you might like JBL 4307's?

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VCR
post Nov 23 2017, 07:42 PM
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QUOTE (Rawr @ Nov 22 2017, 09:04 AM) *
Still like it, or prefer something else?


Almost forgot. Actually, there is something else that I was impressed of, the Sony LSPX-S1. It’s a Bluetooth speaker so you can stream your music to it. It looks cool (yes, it’s a light too; suppose to mimic a lantern) and it actually sounds quite good. Nothing esoteric of course but much much better than the regular Bluetooth-capable portable speaker box. And you only need one (if you insist on 2, you can configure each of them to function as 1 side of a pair). Not inexpensive for what it really is though (around $800) especially when compared to similar products of its class but it easily outperforms everything within that class of products by an order of magnitude. Strategically placed and people might not even know it’s a speaker. (The "lamp cover" is actually part of the glass tweeter assembly.) Can function without a power cord too. Fully charged, it lasts about 3.5 hours with both music and light on.
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Smash Boy
post Nov 24 2017, 09:39 PM
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QUOTE (VCR @ Nov 23 2017, 11:42 PM) *
Almost forgot. Actually, there is something else that I was impressed of, the Sony LSPX-S1. Itís a Bluetooth speaker so you can stream your music to it. It looks cool (yes, itís a light too; suppose to mimic a lantern) and it actually sounds quite good. Nothing esoteric of course but much much better than the regular Bluetooth-capable portable speaker box. And you only need one (if you insist on 2, you can configure each of them to function as 1 side of a pair). Not inexpensive for what it really is though (around $800) especially when compared to similar products of its class but it easily outperforms everything within that class of products by an order of magnitude. Strategically placed and people might not even know itís a speaker. (The "lamp cover" is actually part of the glass tweeter assembly.) Can function without a power cord too. Fully charged, it lasts about 3.5 hours with both music and light on.


VCR, that's pretty cool. I'll have to check it out sometime....I like seeing novelty items like that.

What do you see as the ideal application for it?

I was introduced by a sound vendor two years ago about this device called Solid Drive by MSE Audio. Basically it's a small speaker driver that will turn any surface into a "speaker". It's like a headphone driver with a self contained enclosure.

For example you can place the driver face down (or even underneath facing up) a conference room table, and it will project sound throughout the entire table! And the sound quality is pretty good and full with enough low end to not sound thin.

It will work on smaller surfaces and glass too. The conference room window might have sounded better than the table, and we all know how bad glass usually is.

Of course, drywall is a big use for it too, but not one you could demo in 5 minutes.

The demo I heard two years ago only worked with an amplifier, but now it seems like it's usable without one (for the sake of demonstrating at least).

Now it seems they've divided the speakers individually for drywall, wood, and glass.

http://soliddrive.mseaudio.com/

I can't seem to upload the image of it, but the link will show some pics.

I believe the driver is maybe $200-300, and the rest additional. Cheap enough to play around with.

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VCR
post Nov 24 2017, 10:49 PM
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Fellippe, it is a pretty cool piece. A bit on the pricy side but nothing ever comes cheap from Sony. I see lots of applications. So long as one does not expect extreme high volume level with thumping bass, a studio type of apartment, restaurants & cafes and smaller-scale public space where BGM is needed would fit the bill.

I have seen/heard a demo of the SolidDrive. Very cool concept and it does work so long as you treat it like it is a PA system. The funny thing is this isnít a new concept. Way back in the early 80ís, even before the original Sony Walkman days, there was a gadget call Bone Fone. Imagine a fabric sleeve like that from a shirt, at each end was a speaker (one of them had a built-in AM/ FM radio) the size of an iPhone 3 and about 50% thicker, wear this sleeve like it was a scarf with each speaker rested on top of your collar bone and you get the idea. I was a young kid then and not even close to know what hi-fi is but it was a pretty cool & trendy thing. Didnít last very long though.
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Smash Boy
post Nov 24 2017, 11:47 PM
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QUOTE (VCR @ Nov 25 2017, 01:49 AM) *
Fellippe, it is a pretty cool piece. A bit on the pricy side but nothing ever comes cheap from Sony. I see lots of applications. So long as one does not expect extreme high volume level with thumping bass, a studio type of apartment, restaurants & cafes and smaller-scale public space where BGM is needed would fit the bill.

I have seen/heard a demo of the SolidDrive. Very cool concept and it does work so long as you treat it like it is a PA system. The funny thing is this isnít a new concept. Way back in the early 80ís, even before the original Sony Walkman days, there was a gadget call Bone Fone. Imagine a fabric sleeve like that from a shirt, at each end was a speaker (one of them had a built-in AM/ FM radio) the size of an iPhone 3 and about 50% thicker, wear this sleeve like it was a scarf with each speaker rested on top of your collar bone and you get the idea. I was a young kid then and not even close to know what hi-fi is but it was a pretty cool & trendy thing. Didnít last very long though.


Haha, pretty funny application. Very appropriate for the decade!

Tempted to get both of these items...if anything to have a cheap mono system. icon_mrgreen.gif
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JanDaMan
post Nov 25 2017, 10:07 AM
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Thanks for all the input. Yes those JBL 4307's look like my old school preference, but maybe I need to get into the newer tower type we will see. Plus from what I see on line, many seem to want $3.000+ for those units used. Going to that audio shop soon to begin listing to some systems for my home & take suggestions from here. Over a week later I am finally feeling about 50% better from those damn colonoscopy meds (versed & Demerol) to the point where I can get out in public without spinning head & drooling all over. Not 100% yet, but a bit better. I may go no meds next time, this recovery is sick!

Too bad the car stereo systems got worse over time, but my wife says leave it alone anyway so there ya go.


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OC
post Nov 25 2017, 04:14 PM
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I once PMed VCR about sound systems...it was a dark hole...not sure I climbed back out!!! LOL

He's one of the most patient and helpful person I've ever encountered on car forums. The man is an encyclopedia of sound systems, amongst other things.

Thanks again for helping us even if we're mere sound-system mortals. icon_mrgreen.gif


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VCR
post Nov 25 2017, 05:38 PM
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Thank you very much OC for the very kind words! icon_redface.gif Just trying to make the world a better place with good music. smile.gif

JanDaMan, the JBL 4307 (along with the JBL 4312B) may resemble your preference visually but if you like the Infinity ES series, the JBL's likely won't fit your bill. All of the JBL 43XX & 44XX series are "monitor speakers" which are primarily designed for recording studios. Recording and sound engineers love them because they reveal exactly what the music/sound is like and they can then tinker with the sound to make it more appealing. Some audiophiles like it as they are like a microscope and hence they made in into home application. The flip side is if a recording is great, they sound great; but if a recording is bad, they sound horrendous! It boils down to personal preference of course but the JBL's will reveal the music exactly like it is whereas the Infinity will "beautify" the music somewhat. Euphonic perhaps but it is more pleasing and will result in less aural fatique if you run into a bad recording. Kind of like do you prefer your girl in jeans, hoodie and sneakers with no makeup at all vs. your girl in a dress with elegant high heels plus a light touch of makeup I guess. And yes, all JBL's 43XX & 44XX speakers are not cheap as they can be termed as studio instruments. Most are very well built with professional grade components. One gets what one paid for.

I am not sure if I would totally concur that home audio is 50% acoustic & 50% gear. Let's start by throwing out the issue on mods, i.e. replacing OEM parts with better-grade components; let's assume everything is in OEM. One can have esoteric hi-end speakers but if one does not know how to place them properly, the speakers will sound bad regardless. Conversely, start with a pair of entry level hi-fi speakers but place them strategically (away from the rear wall, perhaps slightly toe-in towards the listener), put them on spiked speaker stands if applicable and one can achieve quite good sound from them. The room environment plays a substantial role. Esoteric audiophiles consider the room as part of the components of the sound system. Room dimensions, construction materials, decorative materials, wiring of AC power and lighting all play a part to achieve that audio nirvana; I guess I am digressing... icon_mrgreen.gif Of course, the listener has to have the know how but trial and error and practise makes perfect strongly apply here. So I would rate acoustics with a much higher percentage but that's just my view.
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JanDaMan
post Nov 25 2017, 08:28 PM
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Well I made it to that audio shop, but I guess I was expecting more. Maybe its just me but it seems true audio shops are basically nonexistent anymore compared to many moons ago when I was in college. Back in little podunk upstate NY I remember walking in shops and they had all kinds of units & speakers all set up all over the place. Now about 35 years later I live in big time affluent OC CA and can not really find anything for my listening and buying experience except for stinkin Best Buy, Costco etc. "VH - Where Have All The Good Times Gone". Anyway, the shop did have an Integrated Amp set up with the Paradigm 75 which I listened to (shown in the photo below). So I am not sure what Integrated Amp I was listening to but he said it was an excellent amp for the Paradigm. He did have a Rotel RA-1570 on the other side of the room which would be a better amp and can adjust the treble and bass too which is probably essential for fussy me. But for what I heard it just didn't rock my wallet loose. It had a ton of high end tones, but to my tastes lacking in the area of richness, soul..."where's the beef!" Maybe that is what all these tall tower speakers are like now. In looking at them I guess I shouldn't be surprised because there's just a row of several small speakers and I suppose a somewhat larger speaker in the bottom of the tower. Maybe adding in a subwoofer would have done it for me, who knows. But if I am going to spend $5K or so I would like to be able to listen to what I am buying. Otherwise it may be best for me to spend it on something else such as replacing my funky folding Murci side mirror. But of course I could just roll the dice and get something like the Rotel RA-1570 along with the Paradigm 75 or 85 without even hearing it. In getting that home if it didn't do the trick then add a sub and catch hell from the wife in spending all her yarn money. On the cheaper end I could look into repairing the Mid speaker of the Infinity and see how that works, probably not loosing much cost there.


IMG_1383 by JanDaMan, on Flickr


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rmtn
post Nov 26 2017, 12:09 AM
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QUOTE (VCR @ Nov 26 2017, 03:38 AM) *
Thank you very much OC for the very kind words! icon_redface.gif Just trying to make the world a better place with good music. smile.gif

JanDaMan, the JBL 4307 (along with the JBL 4312B) may resemble your preference visually but if you like the Infinity ES series, the JBL's likely won't fit your bill. All of the JBL 43XX & 44XX series are "monitor speakers" which are primarily designed for recording studios. Recording and sound engineers love them because they reveal exactly what the music/sound is like and they can then tinker with the sound to make it more appealing. Some audiophiles like it as they are like a microscope and hence they made in into home application. The flip side is if a recording is great, they sound great; but if a recording is bad, they sound horrendous! It boils down to personal preference of course but the JBL's will reveal the music exactly like it is whereas the Infinity will "beautify" the music somewhat. Euphonic perhaps but it is more pleasing and will result in less aural fatique if you run into a bad recording. Kind of like do you prefer your girl in jeans, hoodie and sneakers with no makeup at all vs. your girl in a dress with elegant high heels plus a light touch of makeup I guess. And yes, all JBL's 43XX & 44XX speakers are not cheap as they can be termed as studio instruments. Most are very well built with professional grade components. One gets what one paid for.

I am not sure if I would totally concur that home audio is 50% acoustic & 50% gear. Let's start by throwing out the issue on mods, i.e. replacing OEM parts with better-grade components; let's assume everything is in OEM. One can have esoteric hi-end speakers but if one does not know how to place them properly, the speakers will sound bad regardless. Conversely, start with a pair of entry level hi-fi speakers but place them strategically (away from the rear wall, perhaps slightly toe-in towards the listener), put them on spiked speaker stands if applicable and one can achieve quite good sound from them. The room environment plays a substantial role. Esoteric audiophiles consider the room as part of the components of the sound system. Room dimensions, construction materials, decorative materials, wiring of AC power and lighting all play a part to achieve that audio nirvana; I guess I am digressing... icon_mrgreen.gif Of course, the listener has to have the know how but trial and error and practise makes perfect strongly apply here. So I would rate acoustics with a much higher percentage but that's just my view.


Both 4307 and 4312 are fun home speakers for someone who wants retro sound, colored eq and a bit off loudness. 4429 is more serious speaker and so is 4365. 4319 I think is also former.

I would buy something else but did just mention them as options.

Hard to recommend something without knowing taste, space nor source.
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VCR
post Nov 26 2017, 12:30 AM
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JanDaMan, thanks for the update.

Did you listen to the system as pictured, i.e. exactly as the way how everything is placed in the pic? If so, then, alas, whoever did that knows very little about proper hi-fi. Obviously, they are trying to jam as many merchandises as possible into a compact space. It simply is wrong and it looks more geared toward a compact home theatre set up than anything else (and even that looks wrong).

Were those 3 black boxes the components to drive the Paradigm's? If so, they are Rega components.

A) There is insufficient space for the Paradigm 75F to operate properly; they are way too close to the rear wall and right beside a cabinet.
B ) Rega and Paradigm are not exactly a good match and especially for your taste. Rega is famous for turntables and has the conservative (yet elegant) "British Sound". Paradigm are fairly "open sounding" speakers. Imagine dropping a Jaguar V6 engine into your Murcie and you get the idea.
C) If you want more beef, you will need that Rotel amp along with the Paradigm Prestige 85F, perhaps even the 95F if your space allows it. You can also try the Monitor series instead of the Prestige series. Monitor 7 v7 or Monitor 9 v7. They don't "look" as good as the Prestige series and they sound less refined; but they have about 85% the tonal signature of the Prestige series.
D) Anthem is the brand that matches best with Paradigm speakers. But they mainly make AV receivers and separate preamp/surround sound processors & power amps. They make only 1 integrated amp but it's quite a high-end product; you would need to substantially increase your budget for that.

You also need to know that the current speaker technology; at least those that you have access to; is very different from your Infinity's. To start, the "ES" on your ES100 stands for Efficient Series. At 91db with 1W @1m & 4ohms impedance, your amp will need very little effort to power those speakers. The 4ohm nominal impedance may be a slight challenge at times but it wouldn't not-work. The other thing is there is a passive bass radiator per channel in the ES100 --- the bottom unit that you replaced. Without getting too technical, that thing is solely design to increase the sensation of bass and requires no power. So you are basically conditioned by the Infinity's to accept/prefer a bass-heavy tonal signature. I.e. even on a pair of "tonally correct and balanced" speakers, the bass will sound a bit shy to you.

Before someone says the Prestige 75F is even more efficient at 92dB and the Monitor 7 v7 is just as efficient at the same 91dB, that may be true per se but those are mere specs. We have long learned from cars that specs are very different from the actual feel. The same applies here. Just consider this: on the ES100 , there are only 2 speaker units per channel to power (the passive radiator needs no power as afore-said) so the crossover circuitry would be quite simple. On the 75F or the 7 v7, it's 4 & 3 active speaker units per channel respectively and some units are fairly high-tech. So the crossover circuit would be rather complex and similar to plumbing, if the pipeworks are complicated, then what comes out at the spout might not have much pressure.

If you want to experiment with a subwoofer, I would not say no. Just be forewarn that getting the bass to sound "right" can be a tedious and expensive undertaking. Good solid and tonally correct bass is $$$. Adding a subwoofer is opening a new can of worms as placement is critical in order to gain its true potential. But this is coming from someone who is extremely critical on tonal balance and seamless integration. So long as you are happy, that's what counts the most.

I did do a quick check on eBay and found that some foam suspension replacement parts is available although I am not sure which are the ones that would match the damaged unit on your ES100. Getting the right tech to do the repairs properly is likely even more challenging than finding a good stereo shop these days. But I suppose you can try the DIY method as it's not expensive and there really isn't anything to lose. Do that and then hook it up to your Pioneer AV receiver and see if that satisfies your needs. Great if it does and if not, we can go back and explore the Rotel + Paradigm Prestige/Monitor options.


P.S. Come to think of it, you should ask the shop that you went to and see if they would entertain you on hooking up a Denon AV receiver (nothing top-of-the-line, just entry level to mid-level models; something like the AVR-S530BT) to a pair of Paradigm Prestige 85F and a pair of Paradigm Monitor 7 v7. Add a subwoofer if necessary and see if you like the sound. If so, then just get a pair of Paradigm's and perhaps a subwoofer. Connect them up to your Pioneer AV receiver and start enjoying your tunes.
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VCR
post Nov 26 2017, 12:43 AM
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QUOTE (rmtn @ Nov 26 2017, 12:09 AM) *
Both 4307 and 4312 are fun home speakers for someone who wants retro sound, colored eq and a bit off loudness. 4429 is more serious speaker and so is 4365. 4319 I think is also former.

I would buy something else but did just mention them as options.

Hard to recommend something without knowing taste, space nor source.



Agreed. The 4307 & the 4312B were primarily "compact" monitors designed for mobile/non-permanent set up for location monitoring. They evolved into home products for those who want the "pro & retro" look & sound. For some reason, the Japanese market loves them. The 4429 & the 4365 are true studio monitors built for industrial-grade applications. You would agree that they are substantially larger and heavier. All are good speakers to a certain extent but not ideal for hi-fi applications.


I guess I am being overly critical but I just cannot get over that pic that JanDaMan posted on that set up at the stereo shop! If it was someone else's home I would understand as space & aesthetics are important. But not for a stereo shop. I suppose they can argue that they are trying to create a "real world scenario" from most homes. If so, good luck on moving their inventory as they are doing plenty of disservice to the products. Main speakers placement, keeping the speaker grills on the speakers, having a sub right in front of the main speaker; and leaving a LP (vinyl record) out which can be easily damaged (despite it being on what looks like a Record Doctor record cleaning machine); and having a big screen tv on the rear wall to further ruin the sound. Almost everything that one should not do has been done in that pic! eusa_wall.gif
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JanDaMan
post Nov 26 2017, 09:49 AM
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VCR & all, thanks for your input. As far as all the integrated amp & speakers mentioned as potential options, it is a bit hard to pull the trigger and spend the money without hearing it first. That's like buying a Murci based on suggestions but never even driving one (ha ha, but I did that!). I suppose I could buy from suggestions and return it if I didn't prefer the end result, but that would be a pain and not sure if a shop would allow that anyway. From a business perspective I would think there would be great opportunity in OC CA if a good shop was opened and marketed well to where people could be attracted to something other than the typical Best Buy & such and have many listening options on hand. Best Buy does have the "Magnolia" entertainment room set up, which does look nice but they are limited (for instance not even one integrated amp set up, but lots of receivers). However I understand rent in OC CA is ridiculous; hence maybe why that one shop I visited is what it is for their space. I don't want to criticize them as it seems its the only shop around and the guy was knowledgeable in talking with him. How the hell do people buy nice systems? Do they assume Best Buy is the best stuff and then buy what they listen to there, or do people already know what they want and then order it off the internet (or through the audio store) without even listening to it? People are people and if there really is such a different listening experience with high end stuff (non Best Buy), then I would suspect a nice high end shop would do very well even from the average Joe looking around to buy. But I am obviously no audio expert, but just the average Joe looking for a pretty good replacement system. If I had the money and a knowledgeable sales person I would open such a shop and market the piss out of it; because if such systems are as good as we say then they should sell themselves once someone is in the store to listen to some comparisons even if better costs more. Anyway, off subject I know. But if I can't listen to some options then I will just monkey with my current system for now and maybe it will just be "good enough" for me at least for the time being. I have some EPI speakers too that I bought with my Sherwood years ago and I always liked them when playing with my Sherwood (shown below). But when the Sherwood petered out and I went to the garage sale Pioneer receiver I thought the sound wasn't that great. I will hook it up again and see. I have lots of stuff to look at, such as even seeing if that Pioneer unit has Bluetooth too. I recall the damn manual alone was like 100+ pages, too much unnecessary stuff for me, but it was garage sale. Regarding speaker placement, in my living room maybe placement isn't super important because I rarely sit down when playing music as I am just into too many things walking around doing this & that around the house at least 90% of the time. But even so, I can still hear quality from crap. To VCR, the amp and speakers they guy in the shop was running was just the Paradigm and that amp just to the left of the right speaker in the photo above (amp with the dial).


IMG_1419 by JanDaMan, on Flickr


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Smash Boy
post Nov 26 2017, 10:22 AM
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JanDaMan, if you're willing to drive down to La Jolla, I've got a place for you.

Let me know.
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VCR
post Nov 26 2017, 11:49 AM
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JanDaMan, all good points.
Yes, then they were using an integrated amp from Rega which I donít think is the best fit for the Paradigms. Gone are the days when they actually have loaners to take home to try. Is it possible to call up the place and ask them to pre-assemble a system of your choice and then you come in for the audition?
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