Unotaz

Congrats! Car looks great! What kind of trim is that on the dash? Is that a special trim request through Ad Personam?

To be fair, only the SVJ is a dog on most tracks around the world, except the Ring. The Performante is actually very good across most tracks around the world.

DoctaM3, I just want to let you know that I'm not singling you out but just using your post as my response to other posters on this thread as well. Many years ago, I was an engineer by trade, worked at Multimatic and Delphi for a few years before giving up engineering and going into the other direction. Ok, let's get the math out of the way first. Downforce = 0.5*W (width of the wing) * H (thickness of the wing) * F (coefficient) * Speed squared. So as you can see, downforce is dependent on speed. Using the Huracan Performante as an example, Lamborghini claims that the Performante produces 350kg (770lbs) of downforce at 300km/h (186mph). Using quick math, we find out the constant (W*H*F = 0.00777778). From this, the downforce produced by the Performante at 160km/h (100mph) is roughly 100kg (220lbs). I'm using 100mph, because you said you could feel the difference on the canyons, and I think for most people, taking corners on the canyon at about 100mph is pretty much as fast as anyone would go. I'm not talking about straight lines, but taking corners at 100mph. So at 100mph, your Performante is producing 220lbs of downforce. Now, so that there is no confusion for everybody here, 220lbs of downforce is the TOTAL downforce. So you need to split the downforce between the front and the back of the car. I don't have the exact split of the downforce, since Lamborghini doesn't provide that info publicly, but I would assume that this is somewhere in the range of 35:65 split between the front and the back. So now, your 220 is split between 77lbs (front) and 143lbs (back). The ALA technology by Lamborghini claims that it can split the downforce between the right and left side of the car. But what that means in reality is that it can only REDUCE (remove downforce) the downforce on one side of the car over the other to help with rotation. So on the canyons, by reducing 38.5lbs (it's 77 divided by 2) on the inside front wheel, how much faster can you take that corner? My thoughts exactly..... So the performance difference that you experienced is NOT from the ALA, but rather, you are experiencing the hours of engineering development of the suspension/tire technology on the Performante over the regular Huracans, not the 38.5lbs of downforce that Lambo removed for you to help you with rotation. I have spoken at length with Porsche engineers in Weissach about the ALA system and they concluded that in order for the ALA to be effective, the car needs to generate at least 1200kg of downforce at top speed and taking corners at 160+mph. Is there any race track in the world where you take corners at 160mph+ ? This is why Porsche doesn't use systems similar to ALA and this is why Pagani had to add a big ass wing to the Hyuara BC later on because their original active aeros doesn't do squat. I'm guessing STO didn't use the ALA for the same reasons as well. P.S. I placed my order on the STO as well. I'm excited to see it and read the reviews on the STO as they become available. This is the first Lambo with the ethos of less is more.

I think ALA is just marketing BS if you ask me. I think if it were so effective, you would be seeing the other major brands jumping all over it.

That would be an interesting market to watch. Those 5 million plus special edition Chiron is definitely in a complete separate market altogether. I have to assume those cars will be going into some amazing collections and as such, they won't be coming onto the secondary market in the short term. I can't imagine anybody with only 5-6 cars in their garage buying a 5 million plus Bugatti and selling it in less than a year

I agree with your view on this. The one-offs are just an exercise of special paint and leather interior. Fundamentally, these special one-offs needs to be based on a production vehicle in order to make it road legal, so in that sense, it's not a special car. I think the real collector cars are probably in the "few-offs", assuming you buy the right ones (eg. Project One, Valkyrie, ThethetheFerrari, P1, 918, etc).

Fantastic! I had the red Countach bird eye view poster on my wall, with all of the specs listed

Not possible. Transmission tunnel area is too small.

The Veneno is just like the Reventon. A glorified bodykit car unfortunately. Beautiful to look at, but nothing different from an engineering perspective.

I don't know about the long term value on the Sian, but I agree you with this one-off interpretation of the Aventador is the best one so far. The supercapacitor fixing the ISR gearbox is really Lamborghini to trying to put a band-aid on a fundamental engineering design flaw that has been plaguing the Aventador since the beginning. If the Aventador had the latest dual clutch gearbox from Porsche or Ferrari, the Aventador would be 2secs faster from 0-150 right away.

So much for quality. I took this picture of the Veneno show car at the Museum last week.

Well, 30k for a 650K car doesn't sound so bad

Anybody know the price of the Balboni exhaust?

Strong $$$ for the Lambo!

I will be at Maranello to spec out my 812 GTS on Wednesday. Going to the Lamborghini factory for a tour as well

I agree with you and that's why the Motor Trend is the only test that put both cars tested on the same day, at the same track, with the same driver. As for your assertion for Big Willow not being suited for the SVJ, I think that's a far stretch because the 918 Spyder (AWD) did well on the track, using 3 generations old Cup 2 tires and it was a pre-production prototype without the final hybrid software calibrations. If Big Willow is ill-suited to the SVJ, what track suits it? Monza?

I did take into account of the track length. Autocar test track is 2.5km long. The Ring is 20.8km long, which makes it 8.32 times longer. The SVJ Ring lap record is roughly 12sec faster than the lap set by the 918 Spyder. So 12sec divided by 8.32 is 1.442 second advantage to the SVJ per 2.5km in track distance. But if you look at the Fastestlap.com record, the SVJ is only 0.40sec faster than the 918 Spyder at the Autocar track. Like I said before, something doesn't add up. And then you have the Motor Trend test between the GT2RS and the SVJ, where the GT2RS destroys the SVJ at Big Willow ( GT2 RS ran it at 1:21.08 and the SVJ did it in 1:24.92). I have driven Big Willow hundreds of times and it's one of the fastest tracks here in California that should be well-suited to the SVJ. If the SVJ is 2secs faster than the GT2RS at the Ring, shouldn't the lap time difference between the two on a much shorter track be essentially one or two tenth difference? The SVJ is the first car that I have noticed that had such a big discrepancy between the performance at the Ring and the performance on other tracks. Other cars that are fast at the Ring are also fast on other shorter tracks around the world.

Perfect, you just provided more proof that the SVJ Ring time is questionable. Look at the lap time difference between the 918 and the SVJ on both tracks you just listed. On the Autocar test track, the performance difference between the SVJ and the 918 is half a second per lap. 918 Ring time was set by using the first generation Cup 2 tires (not the Cup 2 R tires, but a Cup 2 tires that is 3 generations old) and it lapped the Ring at 6:57s, 12s slower than the SVJ record lap (6:44.97). Don't you think the SVJ should be at least 2-3s faster than the 918 on the Autocar track?

A couple of things to clear the air. 1. I'm not attacking you, but merely separating the facts from mere "assumptions." I love all types of cars, but I try to avoid drinking their Kool-Aid. The SVJ, based on what I know, used special tires on the Ring run and hence, it's not as dominating as it should have on other tracks. To make things worse, Lamborghini won't even let you spec the Trofeo R from the factory. Any car that dominates the Ring should pretty much dominate everywhere else, or at least be within a few tenths of the record holder on every track around the world. My critique of the SVJ is simply on the Ring record claim. I think SVJ is a great car, all the power and beautiful in one package. 2. Using the 918 computer as an example, it's an industry fact that for every record attempt, manufacturers add roll cage and data telemetry computers onto the cars to collect information and send it back to the pit in real time. Porsche does it, Lamborghini does it. So when you keep going back to it, I find it very childish. 3. I did put down a deposit for the SVJ but then I drove a pre-production prototype when I was in Italy visiting Ferrari and the Lamborghini factory. Lamborghini invited me to look at the Sian (or at the time with the code name LB48H). I was disappointed with the pre-production SVJ that I drove and I asked my deposit to be returned from my dealer when I got back. I later drove my friend's SVJ in Blu Cepheus (beautiful color by the way) and I wished they kept the high pitch sound of the SV on the SVJ. 4. Thank you for helping me with the 918 Spyder when I was collecting information about it back in the days. And because of that, I really hope you make a smart financial decision on the Sian. It's a big risk with potentially very little upside. 2.5-3.0 million is big bucks to spend on a car, and I sincerely think the Project 1 or the Aston Martin Valkyrie is the smarter choice. On the other hand, I think your SVJ63 Roadster is a safe bet.

Is it me or is this hard to read? Too many run-on sentences and incoherent thoughts all wrapped together. First of all, Porsche doesn't have a F1 team. Second, when manufacturers go for a record attempt at the Ring (Lamborghinis included), they always use roll cage and have a stack of computers on the passenger side. Go look at your SVJ Ring car and start counting the number of computers on the passenger side footwell space. Just because it's not on the passenger seat, doesn't mean it's not there. Oh, they also removed a few interior panels on that SVJ test car. I guess it's to save weight? Third, don't divert my questions by introducing another topic on the Viper. Your SVJ Ring specification isn't available on the production cars. Your SVJ weighs at 3902lbs in the real world compared to the so claimed 3500lbs and so far, nobody was able to lap the SVJ faster than the GT2RS in the real world using Pro drivers at the wheel. Fourth, since you have no racing experience, I can tell you that the average driver's perception of 8/10th is not actual 8/10th. More like 5/10th but I digress. Lastly, going back to your assertion about the Viper. The Viper uses a super sticky Kuhmo tire but at least the car comes with it straight from the factory. The Viper ACR is a fast car, full stop. It broke a lot of track records everywhere it went. Going back to my statement in my last post, a fast car is a fast car everywhere. Just like the 918 Spyder, which is fast everywhere it went, the Viper is fast everywhere it went as well. So how about your SVJ? Is it breaking any records on other tracks other than the Ring? Can you order your SVJ with the Trofeo R tires that they used at the Ring test? No? Why not? How come it's only fast at the Ring and nowhere else? ALA only works at the Ring? LOL P.S. I like my Lamborghinis and the SVJ. But I think most people on this forum can clearly see from Novulari612's past statements, this guy doesn't have a clue when it comes to facts and reality. Sian is a cool car, but it's no hypercar and I think everyone here can clearly see that, except Novulari612. Of course, he's got skin in the game with the Sian and the SVJ63, the super limited collector edition Aventador. That is, until Lamborghini rolls out a final edition Aventador....

I just had dinner with Marco this past weekend at a Ferrari function and new generation Trofeo R won't be available until late next year.

I currently have a GT3 Cup car that I participate a few races in the IMSA series as AM. I used to race in the Ferrari Challenge series a few years ago. I'm not a great driver, but at least I have the experience to dissect the BS from manufacturer's claims. I also have very good contacts within Pirelli and Michelin corporate, so I know what's going on these Ring lap times, like which manufacturers constantly use "special" tires for these timed runs and which manufacturers uses real production tires. I used my friend's lap time difference as an example to show you the difference between the two cars with the same driver. Sure, he's not a PRO (a sh*t driver according to you, lol), but how do you explain the lap time difference between the SVJ and the GT2RS that was driven by the PRO driver Randy Pobst at Motor Trend? How about the 3902 lbs weight? You can't, can you? Like I have said in the previous post, the Ring lap time comes down to tires. Car technology hasn't changed that much in the last 5 years, so if you strap a third generation Trofeo R tires to a 918 Spyder and run it again at the Ring, it will be lapping very closely to the 6:45-6:48 mark. In fact, Porsche tested the 918 Spyder at the Ring when they were doing the record run for the GT2RS on the Cup 2 R tires. It came within 1.5s of the GT2RS record lap and this was done without roll cage and no preparation. Not too shabby for a heavy car that came out 7 years ago. While you are correct in your statement that every car is set up differently, so some tracks are better suited to certain cars, but a fast car is a fast car everywhere. Let's take the 918 Spyder for example and compare it to the P1. These two cars were the direct rivals of each other during their heydays. While 918 dominated the P1 on most tracks, the lap time difference between the two is very small (most of the time, less than 1s apart). 918 is NOT 3-4s faster than the P1 or vice versa. You can keep on arguing with baseless claims that keeps going around in circles, but the fact of the matter is, you can't explain why the SVJ is so slow in real world tests or the fact that you can't even purchase the tire that they used at the Ring from your local Lamborghini dealer. Lamborghini won't even sell you those Trofeo R tires. They will tell you to buy the Corsa tires, which is a crap tire as a whole. So essentially, they sold you a "record breaking" car in a spec that isn't "record breaking" and tell you that you can't even get it in the same "record breaking" spec even if you wanted to

LOL, you are really one of those guys who drink the kool-aid that these Italian manufacturers feed you huh? Here is my real world corner balance weight number for my 918 Spyder Weissach in my trim with leather everything, stereo and AC: 3702lbs You really think the SVJ weighs at 3500lbs? And if you think the SVJ did the Ring lap time due to its "lightweight" and ALA aerodynamics, then you certainly don't have any track experience under your belt. The SVJ did that lap time with the third generation TROFEO R tires, not Corsa. Forget about the Trofeo R (which was tire used for the record lap), what's even funnier is that Lamborghini doesn't even equip the SVJ here in the US with Corsa tires. It comes with the standard PZeros We recently took a bunch of cars to Big Willow and my friend's SVJ in Corsa spec tires (he had to buy the set because Lamborghini refused to put on Corsa tires from the factory for the US) lapped the track 3s slower than his own 991.2 GT2RS (he brought his SVJ, GT2RS and P1). P.S. Motor Trend weighed the SVJ when it lapped Big Willow. In the Motor Trend test, they used the Corsa tires for the SVJ, which lapped the track SLOWER than the GT2RS of 1:21.08. SVJ lapped the track in 1:24.92. They also corner balanced the car and weighed the car at, wait for it, 3902lbs!!! So much for Lamborghini's claim of 3500lbs https://www.motortrend.com/cars/lamborghini/aventador/2019/2019-lamborghini-aventador-svj-first-test-review/

There is a reason why other major manufacturer hasn't touched super capacitors, you can't hold the energy for too long and it can't store large amount of energy either. Yes it's light but when you are working with 30hp, the benefit you get from it is limited too. Aventador carbon tub can't accommodate any lithium battery pack, so that's why Lamborghini used capacitor in the interim. Next generation Lambo will have the proper gearbox with proper hybrid technology. All we can hope is that it won't gain too much weight because as of now, the Aventador is really heavy. This begs the question, just how much weight does the Aventador tub weigh? Too much resin used in that RTM tub perhaps? At 35000 NM of torsional stiffness, it's significantly less than the other carbon tubs out there.

2.65 was the old number when they were asking for deposits back in the days. From different sources, some are saying 3 million Euro (including VAT) and others say it's 2.5 million pounds.