Klassens FAIL on Murci Fri night

And the forged wheels on the 570 SL are by Otto Fuchs - stamped on each rim

I looked at the the first page of images and you can easily see the spokes were straight, they are bent in thus the space now from the hub to the broken spokes. What really amazes me that if this happened at speed then why isn't the brake calipers scratched, why is the points where the breaks happened just look perfect with no other scratches around them from the broken spokes hitting the hub while the hub is spinning from the speed (80 mph) and the wheels are obviously spinning from the pavement. Just appears the break happened with no movement of the wheel - not a scratch on anything that I can see????

 

 

Brian, my tire blowout was at about 80mph, not 150...if it happened at 150 I honestly do not think I would have saved the car nor would probably be alive. At 80 mph with just the left rear blow out I was coasting to a stop and had to keep counter steering from 10-2 with the steering wheel until I got under 40 mph where the car finally settled down and drove straight. Karting definitely helped me handle this tire issue at speed. I am sure other people would have over corrected with the wheel at that speed and would have had big problems fast. Was not a fun experience. Remind you this was just a tire blowout for me.

 

I didnt post the pic, but the caliper (main and e-brake) was destroyed... I'll upload it soon.

Oh, and one more response to a post I read... I'm going to wait to see what the failure was and see how KLASSEN handles it before I post all this on all the boards.. I posted here as a warning to everyone here but I don't want to harm KLASSEN's reputation by allowing wide speculation on all the boards. So far, they appear to be doing the right thing. I want to get the facts, make sure such a failure can't happen again to someone else, and see how the manufacturer handles the situation before "going public".

The LP670 SV wheels are made by Alcoa.

yes indeed... which is a major supplier for audi....

Oh, and one more response to a post I read... I'm going to wait to see what the failure was and see how KLASSEN handles it before I post all this on all the boards.. I posted here as a warning to everyone here but I don't want to harm KLASSEN's reputation by allowing wide speculation on all the boards. So far, they appear to be doing the right thing. I want to get the facts, make sure such a failure can't happen again to someone else, and see how the manufacturer handles the situation before "going public".

Personally I dont feel posting on all boards would be the right thing to do.. You bought a USED set of wheels, which was then handled by a third party dissaembled, painted then put back together.. Had you bought a brand new set of wheels that came stright from Klssen I would understand. Otherwise inmo, posting what you WILL do is an attempt to strongarm Klassen.

I am undecided as to whether or not to put KLASSENS back on the car... They appear to still be undecided as to how they are going to handle it.. The wheels were picked up from Lamborghini Miami today... So they wont arrive in California until next week and the repairs to the car will be complete by Wednesday. All wheels were returned.

 

There was no wobbling or anything unusual until 3 to 4 seconds before the failure - it felt like slighty rough pavement.. then BAM. I did get the car off tp the side of the highway with the wheel still in the well. The photos I posted were taken with my Iphone on the side of the freeway on the flatbed. If the wheel had come out of the well, the car would have significantly more damage (and probably more damage to myself as well).

 

And somebody mentioned tire pressure - 39psi front, 40 rear. Brand new P Zero Rossos.

 

 

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any forward progress ??

 

 

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The LP670 SV wheels are made by Alcoa.

 

Alcoa is essentially the single largest wheel supplier in the world. They make the majority of billet blanks that aftermarket wheels are cut from, as well as many OE applications.

 

This includes passenger vehicles, Big Rig semi-trucks almost exclusive use them, airplanes, blah blah.

 

I would without a doubt never question a wheel produced by Alcoa, but any goon with solidworks and a PO to a machine shop can buy one of their forged blanks and machine it down to a toothpick.

 

 

I believe Klassen is also just under new ownership..

 

Sounds like they might be again real soon...

 

I'm betting they'll blame the installer. Improperly torqued or some other bullshit.

Sounds like they might be again real soon...

 

I'm betting they'll blame the installer. Improperly torqued or some other bullshit.

 

Read the whole thread before posting, retard. Geeze.

Read the whole thread before posting, retard. Geeze.

 

You're calling yourself a retard?

You're calling yourself a retard?

 

LOL!!!!

You're calling yourself a retard?

 

Hey, I call 'em as I see 'em.

Hey, I call 'em as I see 'em.

 

WTF

WTF

I don't think he gets it.

I don't think he gets it.

 

lol, Apex, i think you might've quoted the wrong person.

lol, Apex, i think you might've quoted the wrong person.

 

+1

I think he posted his response prior to actually reading the thread and then realised what he said was not right and quoted himself as the retard for doing so?

I think he posted his response prior to actually reading the thread and then realised what he said was not right and quoted himself as the retard for doing so?

 

lol, i love all members here... they entertain me during work hours

I think he posted his response prior to actually reading the thread and then realised what he said was not right and quoted himself as the retard for doing so?

 

Yes.

 

Jesus guys, it's not that hard.... and I thought I was retarded.

Physical testing of the wheels would be expensive especially with many different wheel styles but there are plenty of simulation and FEA (Finite Element Analysis) programs which makes these costs reasonable and I would assume all these companies have a resident engineer that does this or it is contracted out.

Alcoa is essentially the single largest wheel supplier in the world. They make the majority of billet blanks that aftermarket wheels are cut from, as well as many OE applications.

 

This includes passenger vehicles, Big Rig semi-trucks almost exclusive use them, airplanes, blah blah.

 

I would without a doubt never question a wheel produced by Alcoa, but any goon with solidworks and a PO to a machine shop can buy one of their forged blanks and machine it down to a toothpick.

 

Well.... Alcoa wheels are not perfect by any means. A friend purchased a set of alcoa wheels and the chrome peeled within a year... There will inevitably with any brand exist defective products, thats just the realities of it...

Physical testing of the wheels would be expensive especially with many different wheel styles but there are plenty of simulation and FEA (Finite Element Analysis) programs which makes these costs reasonable and I would assume all these companies have a resident engineer that does this or it is contracted out.

 

Few things... they physical destruction testing isn't that expensive. Fatigue testing is a bit more but when you're selling $8k wheels it's all but expected. Plus you have the liability aspect. How much does it cost to fix a murci? Or the legal expenses if there is an accident and you're found to be negligent as the designer?

 

Do you drive a murci around with no insurance because it saves you $2500/yr? Or is the risk of loss too high on that one?

 

 

As someone who is very experienced with FEA, it's extremely complicated. It takes a very sophisticated program to replicate the forces involved here. Even the middle road SolidWorks program is $7500, and they easily eclipse $15k plus service contracts. This is just the software cost. And truth be told, it takes some time and experience to really get a handle on the quirks of the program. In my experience for a given design (not wheel related at all) I have tested models via FEA, and then done backup real world lab tests to verify the results. In a single plane/load to deformation or failure type test this is very predictable and still takes some work to get things calibrated properly. A dynamic fatigue test with varying vertical and lateral loads would be extremely difficult to calculate in even the most advanced FEA programs. I mean if a 4000lb car with a .92g corner load at 80 mph goes through a dip in the road which all but bottoms out the suspension and then encounters a pothole, how would you calculate those forces?

 

The guys who do this professionally are generally P.E.'s with a masters and decades of experience. This is far outside the scope of your average M.E.

 

As I previously posted, anyone who can make the payment on a CNC machine, take a junior college modeling class, and buy some wheel blanks can be a wheel designer. But when you start pushing the design limits it takes some very advanced skills.

 

Regarding the chrome peeling on an Alcoa wheel, that is a secondary coating (plating) and says absolutely nothing about the quality of the wheel. Obviously things can and do happen, but who would you trust more? At least you know Alcoa has the resources to properly design, test, and analyze the products they sell.

 

At the end of the day, this is what separates the guys like HRE who I know for a fact extensively tests all their wheels, from the million startup companies.

 

 

Signed,

Resident Engineer who admittedly knows enough that I but would be hesitant to sign off on something being bolted to a $300k car without real world failure testing. Remember that debacle with Ben, the wrecked Carrera GT, and the guy dying? Now imagine your wheel being on that car in this condition, and having a team of attorneys backed by a pissed off widow of a multi-millionaire out for revenge all over your ass?