FYI-Countach Suspension Joint Failure

Just a friendly FYI to all the Countach owners out there who have purchased the suspension/heim joints which have been and are currently for sale on E-bay.

 

Don't bother installing them on the car. IMO they are junk. I installed the complete set on my car less then 200 miles ago during a complete suspension re-do, and four (4) of them have already failed completely. By failure, I do not mean actual breakage, or separation, but looseness just like the old 3000+ mile joints that were removed from the car.

 

My opinion is that you are better off with the factory pieces. They aren't really worth a shit either, and are expensive, but they lasted a hell of a lot longer than 200 miles.

 

And no, I did not hit a huge pothole or other road hazard. The failures were on both sides of the rear of the car.

Thank you. I have a set from Curt aka limey.

I assume you were the one that pm'd me through ebay saying they would fail.

I am glad you posted this as I was waiting to hear of someones results.

I bought my set very cheap and have not used them yet.

Yet, limey was looking for feed back.....maybe to correct any bad designs.

any other alternatives ?

 

 

 

 

Anybody ?

 

 

Does this mean that the set I bought from Limey is useless !! ???

Hi Terry,

 

1st off, to answer your question, NO! The kit isn't junk & to address Ricks post, which is the 1st time anyone has mentioned anything about the kit in a ngative manner could most certainly have been handled a bit more proffessional by him.

 

Rick hasn't contacted us since purchasing the kit in February, had he approached us with his findings, we could have looked into it and advised all buyers if there is a problem. We are obviously looking into now.

 

All tollerances on the kits were identical per OEM, that included rockwell hardness.

 

Since Rick hasn't contacted us, or described anything that could benefit us, as well as the other members here on the forum, post up the joint, or joints that have a problem, and we'll address it out here in the open forum for everyones benefit.

 

If there is a problem with one of the joints, we'll address it and FIX it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Terry,

 

1st off, to answer your question, NO! The kit isn't junk & to address Ricks post, which is the 1st time anyone has mentioned anything about the kit in a ngative manner could most certainly have been handled a bit more proffessional by him.

 

Rick hasn't contacted us since purchasing the kit in February, had he approached us with his findings, we could have looked into it and advised all buyers if there is a problem. We are obviously looking into now.

 

All tollerances on the kits were identical per OEM, that included rockwell hardness.

 

Since Rick hasn't contacted us, or described anything that could benefit us, as well as the other members here on the forum, post up the joint, or joints that have a problem, and we'll address it out here in the open forum for everyones benefit.

 

If there is a problem with one of the joints, we'll address it and FIX it.

 

i bought parts from Kurt in the past

in my experience he had been perfect: very precise and professional

Just a friendly FYI to all the Countach owners out there who have purchased the suspension/heim joints which have been and are currently for sale on E-bay.

 

Don't bother installing them on the car. IMO they are junk. I installed the complete set on my car less then 200 miles ago during a complete suspension re-do, and four (4) of them have already failed completely. By failure, I do not mean actual breakage, or separation, but looseness just like the old 3000+ mile joints that were removed from the car.

 

My opinion is that you are better off with the factory pieces. They aren't really worth a shit either, and are expensive, but they lasted a hell of a lot longer than 200 miles.

 

And no, I did not hit a huge pothole or other road hazard. The failures were on both sides of the rear of the car.

Did you call them and talk to them about the problem?

Well, Rick, guess the ball's in your court

Posting some photos would be a good start.

Lets all work this out professionally as this could become a dangerous problem.

Well, Rick, guess the ball's in your court

Posting some photos would be a good start.

Lets all work this out professionally as this could become a dangerous problem.

 

Yes, please post more specifics....as I have two sets yet to go on a car.

 

Brian

Very dangerous making statements without refering to the manufactuers first !!

Hi Terry,

 

1st off, to answer your question, NO! The kit isn't junk & to address Ricks post, which is the 1st time anyone has mentioned anything about the kit in a ngative manner could most certainly have been handled a bit more proffessional by him.

 

Rick hasn't contacted us since purchasing the kit in February, had he approached us with his findings, we could have looked into it and advised all buyers if there is a problem. We are obviously looking into now.

 

All tollerances on the kits were identical per OEM, that included rockwell hardness.

 

Since Rick hasn't contacted us, or described anything that could benefit us, as well as the other members here on the forum, post up the joint, or joints that have a problem, and we'll address it out here in the open forum for everyones benefit.

 

If there is a problem with one of the joints, we'll address it and FIX it.

 

 

Lets start with being professional. I came to a place where I have camaraderie with other Countach owners and did three simple things. I explained my particular situation in a clear manner, I gave my own opinion of the situation based on my experience, and I gave some advice I deemed to be both helpful and friendly. I can't see how I could have handled it more simply to the benefit of all others except for you Kurt.

 

If I came here blasting away at how much of a pain in the ass it was dealing with you originally in my efforts to get the complete kit, that would have been unprofessional. Since others have had a positive experience with you, then our conflict may have been unique, and has no bearing on the failure of the parts discussed. If the parts were functioning properly, then I would be a happy client.

 

I could have come on this forum and lamented about how I should have heeded all the warnings both on this forum and elsewhere about conjecture that you were a purveyor of over priced garbage. That would have been unprofessional, but still my own opinion and my error for not listening to said warnings.

 

I have no fiduciary relationship with you, and therefore have no reason to report back to you for your benefit. As far as I'm concerned, you are the one who provided the goods and services and now are looking for the client to be the beta tester for your experimental parts. You have the responsibility to properly test the items you sell and make assurances that they are of quality. You obviously have not done that, which is why you are so keen to get the feedback you think you are entitled to.

 

Even if I felt compelled to tell you my experiences, I had zero confidence that anything would have been done on my behalf. Even if you replaced all the parts I believe to be defective, which is most likely the entire kit in my opinion, the new pieces would have been from the same untested batch. Then I would be out the initial installation expense, the replacement installation expense, additional time without the car, and still no confidence that the new pieces would last any longer than the originals.

 

To all the other Countach owners:

 

I do not have pictures at this time, since the car is in the shop. Here is what I can provide.

 

The failed parts can be found in the Countach parts book:

 

TAV. 34

Part #005209538 - Shown as #20 on the schematic

Part #005209535 - Shown as #24 on the schematic

 

Two of each part (both sides) have failed on the top linkage connecting the hub carrier to the chassis. There are many more of these same part numbers in the rear suspension which is my basis for concern regarding additional failures.

 

I have no problem reporting my experiences for the benefit of other Countach owners and forum members, which is what I thought I did. Each owner with the kits can certainly make his or her own decision regarding installation of the parts, and then decide whether or not to provide feedback to the parts provider. Each person can take my unsolicited opinions, advice and experiences, and do with them what they wish.

 

What I don't appreciate is being vilified by someone with a financial interest who is only concerned about covering his own ass.

 

I'm sorry. That last statement was probably unprofessional.

Ok... Lets keep everything civil....

 

It seems to me what we have here is a lack of communication.

 

 

We have one party attempting to provide an alternative source of parts for the CT. I understand and appreciate the effort.

 

We have another party who was for all intents and purposes the guinea pig for said parts. He feels he didnt get what he bargained for. I appreciate the frustration....

 

 

It seems to me in a situation like this, the buyer knows he is part of an "experiment". The course for any such experiment is trial and error.

 

If you dont tell the manufacturer youve had problems, how is he supposed to fix it? How is he supposed to make it right both for you and future customers?

 

It seems you had previous problems that made such an outreach futile in your mind, but you still have a responsibility to make the effort, and then if he tells you to go fcuk yourself, bring it here. I think you bypassed an important step.

 

 

Any chance for the sake of both parties and other owners that we might hit the reset button, and go back to that missed step and forget everything since and before?

Mike,

 

The ONLY problem i have with your post is it vaugeness, you have now posted up the joints in question and i will now look into this. I have no problem with you coming on here and telling people your experiences, be it good or bad, after-all, that's what we come here for.

 

You've listed the problems, i will address them with the manufacturer and find a solution.

 

 

 

I too appreciate someone helping to make anything for the Countach, but this one has been put to the market a little early. I can indeed confirm the problem exists, at least with another set. Luckily I have only had the rear installed at this moment. Under 70 miles and the play is coming back. I don't see anything that looks like a complete joint failure yet. The clunk noise is back, and so is some of the play. The problem that I see with the joint is the plastic that is put in between the joint and the socket. It takes no time for this to compress, and then the noise is back. Limey if you would come up with a better idea, I could try it on my car first if that would help any.

Limey if you would come up with a better idea, I could try it on my car first if that would help any.

 

Appreciate it and have put an email to my vendor to provide a resolution. May take a few days to get to the bottom of it, but it's being worked on. i will update asap.

Appreciate it and have put an email to my vendor to provide a resolution. May take a few days to get to the bottom of it, but it's being worked on. i will update asap.

 

Kurt,

 

A good thing you restricted me bidding on Ebay item #380265753265 then.

i have some experience with making alternative Lamborghini parts: it's not easy at all. OEM parts are old but they were the top available at the time, so a good non-OEM part costs a lot. If it do not cost a lot it is not good.

 

I changed 4 rear joints (part. 20 and 24 on the pag. 34 scheme) on my Countach: i bought the OEM and after 200 miles (almost all done by or with the mechanic, as i do not have the plate) they are perfect as it must be after just 200 miles.

 

I Think you do not have to use OEM parts just in these five cases:

 

1) the OEM is out of stock

 

2) the OEM has a brain damage price (for example camshaft bearings)

 

3)The OEM does not work well as it is a factory bad redone spare spart (for example clutch T/O Bearing)

 

4)The OEM is the same part used on other cars (for example lights, switch, distributor cap, spark plugs...)

 

5)the OEM is outscored by newer and widely tested parts (pistons, valve seats, valve guides, crankshaft bearings and so on)

 

Ottherwise, better give the money to Lamborghini Service

 

 

ciao

Ok forgive my inexperience here, but what makes these parts so special? They sure look like some pretty standard heim joints to me?

 

Are they a funky size, dimension, etc, not readily available from FK or another big name MFG?

 

For $200+ a pair those things better be top of the line and absolutely massive! Monster Truck Heim's aren't that expensive!

I can understand Rick's problem with being a tester. You are 100% right.

Guess the best thing is for guys like Earlycat willing to work with Kurt. I thank you for that.

In hindsight, good people like Kurt, who are willing to do what no one else will, should state that he would like help developing these....those who help get them free or heavily discounted.

 

My experience with Jaques at Maserati Source years ago was that he was looking for a lp400 exhaust to replicate. If I sent him mine to use, he'd send it back to me with his brand new one free. I did not do it because I had a 2 level spinal fusion then, a few months later, my first of 4 knee surgeries. At the time and could not do anything like removing my exhaust for half a year or so.

I can understand Rick's problem with being a tester. You are 100% right.

Guess the best thing is for guys like Earlycat willing to work with Kurt. I thank you for that.

In hindsight, good people like Kurt, who are willing to do what no one else will, should state that he would like help developing these....those who help get them free or heavily discounted.

 

My experience with Jaques at Maserati Source years ago was that he was looking for a lp400 exhaust to replicate. If I sent him mine to use, he'd send it back to me with his brand new one free. I did not do it because I had a 2 level spinal fusion then, a few months later, my first of 4 knee surgeries. At the time and could not do anything like removing my exhaust for half a year or so.

 

 

+1 on Jacques! He wanted to do the same thing with my exhaust on the Jalpa. I just didn't have a spare to send him and didn't want to take mine off at the time! :-)

 

I'm probably going to need some new Heim's on my '86 5000QV one of these days, as I'm starting to notice the "clunk" sound when I go over speedbumps.

 

Kurt, if you want another tester to try out any new version you produce, let me know.....

 

Mike

 

+1 on Jacques! He wanted to do the same thing with my exhaust on the Jalpa. I just didn't have a spare to send him and didn't want to take mine off at the time! :-)

 

I'm probably going to need some new Heim's on my '86 5000QV one of these days, as I'm starting to notice the "clunk" sound when I go over speedbumps.

 

Kurt, if you want another tester to try out any new version you produce, let me know.....

 

Mike

 

Mike your "clunk" may be the swaybar bushings. Its worth checking that first, easier and cheaper to replace than the suspension joints.

Mike your "clunk" may be the swaybar bushings. Its worth checking that first, easier and cheaper to replace than the suspension joints.

 

Thanks Greg! I'll check that tomorrow morning.

 

Mike

 

Romandad post makes total sense. When I saw the parts at first it was clear they were advertised as new development. It is also clear that this effort was not done in a rip off manner but an effort from a list member for a win-win.

I guess Rolls Royce also has its problems with its new Airbus engine.. That is sometime the reality of engineering. New things fail.

 

Someone who does not want technical problems and does not want to be flexible in using newly developed parts would be better served to buy from a lambo dealer and have them installed there because implicilty the understanding is that it a no hassle deal.

 

Kurt is ready to address the issue and send new parts if found defectives. After all they must be warantied otherwise I hardly understand how anyone would buy a few thousand bucks of newly designed unwarantied parts...

If this effort is sucessful, all owners would have a viable parts alternative. Indeed what we have here is a failure to communicate. All parties would be better served by letting the egos aside and work toghether for the best outcome.

 

Point in case if every new buyer of an lp400 would have taken that no hassle approach, the cars probably would have all end up in the junk yard after a couple of years.

 

 

Ok... Lets keep everything civil....

 

It seems to me what we have here is a lack of communication.

 

 

We have one party attempting to provide an alternative source of parts for the CT. I understand and appreciate the effort.

 

We have another party who was for all intents and purposes the guinea pig for said parts. He feels he didnt get what he bargained for. I appreciate the frustration....

 

 

It seems to me in a situation like this, the buyer knows he is part of an "experiment". The course for any such experiment is trial and error.

 

If you dont tell the manufacturer youve had problems, how is he supposed to fix it? How is he supposed to make it right both for you and future customers?

 

It seems you had previous problems that made such an outreach futile in your mind, but you still have a responsibility to make the effort, and then if he tells you to go fcuk yourself, bring it here. I think you bypassed an important step.

 

 

Any chance for the sake of both parties and other owners that we might hit the reset button, and go back to that missed step and forget everything since and before?

The Countach aftermarket is VERY small, and the community only slightly larger. I'm just glad to see you guys keeping it civil and working things out.

 

Keep us updated as I'm sure many more Countach owners are watching this thread than posting.

Ok forgive my inexperience here, but what makes these parts so special? They sure look like some pretty standard heim joints to me?

 

Are they a funky size, dimension, etc, not readily available from FK or another big name MFG?

 

For $200+ a pair those things better be top of the line and absolutely massive! Monster Truck Heim's aren't that expensive!

 

afaik funky size, dimention etc all applies, mixed with a small market.