Countach side skirt.

Does'nt have the VIN on any of the cars, but are looking for them. Don't know if the one with the stripe has more HP than normal. Ad says nothing about tuning. But the black car here with the skirts was said to, with the sports exhaust and some other tweaks give 530 hp. Owner says it feels faster than the car with the LY 36700 reg did. That being an all standard QV. Hope to go for a test in the black car sunday or monday. Sport exhaust alone was said to be maybe 30-40 horses. Would that really be enough to feel a difference on its own?

Does'nt have the VIN on any of the cars, but are looking for them. Don't know if the one with the stripe has more HP than normal. Ad says nothing about tuning. But the black car here with the skirts was said to, with the sports exhaust and some other tweaks give 530 hp. Owner says it feels faster than the car with the LY 36700 reg did. That being an all standard QV. Hope to go for a test in the black car sunday or monday. Sport exhaust alone was said to be maybe 30-40 horses. Would that really be enough to feel a difference on its own?

You can definitely feel 30-40 hp..

Does'nt have the VIN on any of the cars, but are looking for them. Don't know if the one with the stripe has more HP than normal. Ad says nothing about tuning. But the black car here with the skirts was said to, with the sports exhaust and some other tweaks give 530 hp. Owner says it feels faster than the car with the LY 36700 reg did. That being an all standard QV. Hope to go for a test in the black car sunday or monday. Sport exhaust alone was said to be maybe 30-40 horses. Would that really be enough to feel a difference on its own?

 

sport exhaust and fine tuning give some 20-30 hp at best

 

this said quoted hp numbers for countach are with the sport exhaust on

so i do not believe the 530 hp

it is more likely that car has all the 455 quoted hp ...(IMO)

As with all Italian cars of that period, HP-numbers used to be more like what they wanted it to be, more than actual hp, so if in reality there is 450 I to belive it would be that at the best. Strange that no magazines have collected the different Countach's and Ferrari BB's to test them to see what they actually gives. How many times havent there been tests in magazines with cars and their owners stating that the factory have told them that their particular engine had turned out some exeptional numbers, and "that it might be one of the 10 best engines they have made?". I guess if you heare what you want to heare, it helps to forge out the money for these toys, so you can brag about it.

 

If I get the VIN numbers, would you (Emilio) be able to find out where the cars was sold from when new?

As with all Italian cars of that period, HP-numbers used to be more like what they wanted it to be, more than actual hp, so if in reality there is 450 I to belive it would be that at the best. Strange that no magazines have collected the different Countach's and Ferrari BB's to test them to see what they actually gives. How many times havent there been tests in magazines with cars and their owners stating that the factory have told them that their particular engine had turned out some exeptional numbers, and "that it might be one of the 10 best engines they have made?". I guess if you heare what you want to heare, it helps to forge out the money for these toys, so you can brag about it.

 

If I get the VIN numbers, would you (Emilio) be able to find out where the cars was sold from when new?

 

exactly

i think a good carbed QV with sport exhaust is a real 450 hp car

considering it is also pretty light, it is still a fast machine, almost diablo-fast

 

there are some cars that are "lucky born" and perform a bit better than others as well as there are some "dogs" quite a bit slower than the average

and there are few (but i believe VERY FEW!!!) special V12 engines with some more hps (Silvera's LP400, Martini QV, Bobnar's 25th etc...)

usually these cars are well documented as special cars with factory papers

 

this said, fine tuning is essential for these cars to perform as they should

perfect timing, exahust and carb setting make a LOT of difference, so a car could very well be 50 hp more than an other of the same model-year

 

i think this fact made some owners believe their cars have special, more powerfull engines

 

as for the last questions:

no, i could do if it was a 400S car

unfortunately i have no QV files, sorry

Emilio

 

Having just driven them back to back the CT QV/25 is indeed not far off Diablo performance at all, very surprisingly for me, until 100+mph at which point they are worlds apart. Aero's really are chalk and cheese...

 

The Diablo / CT visual comparisons gives the impression they are very different animals when they are in fact clearly the same breed. Not sure if that is good or bad...?!!

 

I will be testing a 6.0L shortly and am very interested in how this car drives in comparison.

Emilio

 

Having just driven them back to back the CT QV/25 is indeed not far off Diablo performance at all, very surprisingly for me, until 100+mph at which point they are worlds apart. Aero's really are chalk and cheese...

 

The Diablo / CT visual comparisons gives the impression they are very different animals when they are in fact clearly the same breed. Not sure if that is good or bad...?!!

 

I will be testing a 6.0L shortly and am very interested in how this car drives in comparison.

 

 

My countach after mods could run with a Diablo Sv till about 100 mph, after that the Countach hits what seems like a brick wall.. In stock form, my CT would of gotten eaten for lunch by a Diablo..

 

I know as fact that good U.S. Qv's make around 280 rwhp... Factoring a normal drivetrain loss from say 15-20% thats between 350-370hp...

My countach after mods could run with a Diablo Sv till about 100 mph, after that the Countach hits what seems like a brick wall.. In stock form, my CT would of gotten eaten for lunch by a Diablo..

 

I know as fact that good U.S. Qv's make around 280 rwhp... Factoring a normal drivetrain loss from say 15-20% thats between 350-370hp...

 

dont forget you and Ostoneman ar talking about 2 different Ct. Hew may have a DD with sport ansa while you may have tried a US inj with the cats and the wonderfull emission technology of the time.

dont forget you and Ostoneman ar talking about 2 different Ct. Hew may have a DD with sport ansa while you may have tried a US inj with the cats and the wonderfull emission technology of the time.

Even so.. my CT after mods had distributorless ignition and electronic fuel injection, combined with a custom exhaust with no cats.. It felt much faster than the DD CT with sport exhaust I drove..

I think the FI if modded correctly can yield better results as carbs are much more limited in terms of tuning to bump up hp. A properly set up FI can deliver fuel and ignition more precisely than a mechanical set up offered by carbs...

I think the FI if modded correctly can yield better results as carbs are much more limited in terms of tuning to bump up hp. A properly set up FI can deliver fuel and ignition more precisely than a mechanical set up offered by carbs...

My 87 Fuel Injected car did 354 RWHP and 300 RWTQ. It runs the factory injection system with a MSD ignition, but has no cats and Larini exhaust and headers. Assuming a 15% driveline loss, this would point to right at 420 crank HP. If you bump the driveline loss to 20%, that would be about 440 crank HP. These numbers are fairly close to a carb QV with the 20% loss, and right on factory injected car claims with the 15% loss.

 

It is certainly not remotely fast by modern standards, but its still fun. On various runs with other car groups, I've had no trouble dispatching numerous Testarossa's, 355's and 360's and have run basically neck and neck with two different 04 MY Gallardo's up to about 110 or so, but never went beyond that. I've never had the chance to run a stock Diablo, only a twin turbo car, and we all know how that turned out

 

One of these days, I would like to convert the car to modern injection and distributorless ignition. I know it would make more power, but more importantly, I think the car would be much nicer to drive.

My 87 Fuel Injected car did 354 RWHP and 300 RWTQ. It runs the factory injection system with a MSD ignition, but has no cats and Larini exhaust and headers. Assuming a 15% driveline loss, this would point to right at 420 crank HP. If you bump the driveline loss to 20%, that would be about 440 crank HP. These numbers are fairly close to a carb QV with the 20% loss, and right on factory injected car claims with the 15% loss.

 

It is certainly not remotely fast by modern standards, but its still fun. On various runs with other car groups, I've had no trouble dispatching numerous Testarossa's, 355's and 360's and have run basically neck and neck with two different 04 MY Gallardo's up to about 110 or so, but never went beyond that. I've never had the chance to run a stock Diablo, only a twin turbo car, and we all know how that turned out

 

One of these days, I would like to convert the car to modern injection and distributorless ignition. I know it would make more power, but more importantly, I think the car would be much nicer to drive.

 

But you do realise the mods youve done make a huge difference in power from stock right?

Even so.. my CT after mods had distributorless ignition and electronic fuel injection, combined with a custom exhaust with no cats.. It felt much faster than the DD CT with sport exhaust I drove..

 

The recent press overload on the Ct comparison tests clearly shows the difference between the US and Euro cars, with the magasine write up on the late black US model finding the car not that hot or quick next to its piers; whilst the other mag in the same month running the same comparison but with no US spec finding the later euro DD as infinitely the best of bunch in every way....and still a genuinely fast car by modern standards. They must be chalk and cheese....

 

All Ct's are increasingly set-up dependent... a well set Euro DD is still a quickish car and from your comments past and present and so maybe the dd you drove was not 'as it should be'. Definitely similar in performance to the Diablos (Now I have driven them) until, as you say, 110+, at which point you feel it battling the air as if you have dropped anchor. Which is a real shame as they would potentially be just as fast with decent aero one would imagine. IMPO I do not think the factory outputs are far off at all, simply that other modern cars with similar quoted output are of a better practical design in just about every way, and hence there is no comparison in the real world. In a roll on drag style foot to the floor scenario, until 100 or so, it still performs more than well against other cars of the same quoted power, even if you dont believe it

 

Until you try to stop or meet headwind that is...at which point they are crap...fact.

The recent press overload on the Ct comparison tests clearly shows the difference between the US and Euro cars, with the magasine write up on the late black US model finding the car not that hot or quick next to its piers; whilst the other mag in the same month running the same comparison but with no US spec finding the later euro DD as infinitely the best of bunch in every way....and still a genuinely fast car by modern standards. They must be chalk and cheese....

 

All Ct's are increasingly set-up dependent... a well set Euro DD is still a quickish car and from your comments past and present and so maybe the dd you drove was not 'as it should be'. Definitely similar in performance to the Diablos (Now I have driven them) until, as you say, 110+, at which point you feel it battling the air as if you have dropped anchor. Which is a real shame as they would potentially be just as fast with decent aero one would imagine. IMPO I do not think the factory outputs are far off at all, simply that other modern cars with similar quoted output are of a better practical design in just about every way, and hence there is no comparison in the real world. In a roll on drag style foot to the floor scenario, until 100 or so, it still performs more than well against other cars of the same quoted power, even if you dont believe it

 

Until you try to stop or meet headwind that is...at which point they are crap...fact.

 

 

I dont think you understand my point.. My point is that the DD I drove was not as fast as my car AFTER the mods i did... The DD was def faster then my car when it was stock.. Not vastly faster, but certianly faster and more responsive..

I understood....just dont agree. I dont think the car you drove was running properly.

I understood....just dont agree. I dont think the car you drove was running properly.

It was... You just dont understand the difference the mods I did make..

Evaluating through an impartial and broad mean across the genuine performance tests over the years, the performance differentiation between the two models would appear to be gross enough to assume the upgrades in power and torque required in order to recouperate the by no means nominal deffecit would require more than the mods you made......especially if you are starting with a base car delivering an output of around 380 bhp as you mention.

 

Again, I genuinely dont think, from comments past and present that you have driven a well set up DD. How many Euro DD's have you driven ? Personally, I have driven a few, which is why I stress the well set-up aspect....as many are not, and one car can perform dramatically different than another hence.

 

Please understand, I am not bigging up the car here, simply the difference between the Euro and US cars....

 

In addition, in discussions with Valentino over the years, he has said that the two cars (stock) are poles apart......and he should know.

 

 

ps, I'm not putting your CT down here Allan, at all, only disputing the fact that it would have been a much faster car as you suggest.

Evaluating through an impartial and broad mean across the genuine performance tests over the years, the performance differentiation between the two models would appear to be gross enough to assume the upgrades in power and torque required in order to recouperate the by no means nominal deffecit would require more than the mods you made......especially if you are starting with a base car delivering an output of around 380 bhp as you mention.

 

Again, I genuinely dont think, from comments past and present that you have driven a well set up DD. How many Euro DD's have you driven ? Personally, I have driven a few, which is why I stress the well set-up aspect....as many are not, and one car can perform dramatically different than another hence.

 

Please understand, I am not bigging up the car here, simply the difference between the Euro and US cars....

 

In addition, in discussions with Valentino over the years, he has said that the two cars (stock) are poles apart......and he should know.

 

 

ps, I'm not putting your CT down here Allan, at all, only disputing the fact that it would have been a much faster car as you suggest.

Oh lordy...

 

A U.S Version Qv is rated at 420 hp, and the Euro 455... Ive never done any performance tests in any of them, no vbox etc.. All I have is seat of the pants.. Ive driven 1 DD, and driven in another. And driven countless other Cts, from 5000s to Qv's.. According to magazines, for example Road and Track from back in the day, they tested both a Euro and U.S CT, the Euro ran 12.80@ 112, the U.S 13.0@110...

 

Mods on my car consisted of taking off the U.S. bumpers ( good 50lb savings), replacing the entire Bosch Cis injection system ( from memory that saved close to 50lbs) with an Electromotive electronic fuel injection , replacing the distributor with distributorless ignition, K=N filters, deleting the cats and a hand fabbed lightweight exhaust.. We estimated the power gain at OVER 100Hp, and it felt it, car was night and day..

 

I never dynoed my car, but Dennis, who is on Lp, has a similar setup, but using Motec his car dynoed at over 420 rwhp... THATS AT THE WHEELS... No DD will make that much power at the wheels, even if tuned by Bob Wallace himself.. Thats more Hp than my Diablo SV made with full exhaust (416rwhp)...

Actually, if you removed front and rear rubber bumpers AND all the supporting brackets, you loose a bit over 100 lb.. I removed all that crap from my 87 car and weighed each piece, just to see, and that is what it came to.

Chadbourn Bolles

 

 

Mods on my car consisted of taking off the U.S. bumpers ( good 50lb savings), replacing the entire Bosch Cis injection system ( from memory that saved close to 50lbs) with an Electromotive electronic fuel injection , replacing the distributor with distributorless ignition, K=N filters, deleting the cats and a hand fabbed lightweight exhaust.. We estimated the power gain at OVER 100Hp, and it felt it, car was night and day..

 

 

Actually, if you removed front and rear rubber bumpers AND all the supporting brackets, you loose a bit over 100 lb.. I removed all that crap from my 87 car and weighed each piece, just to see, and that is what it came to.

Chadbourn Bolles

 

 

Mods on my car consisted of taking off the U.S. bumpers ( good 50lb savings), replacing the entire Bosch Cis injection system ( from memory that saved close to 50lbs) with an Electromotive electronic fuel injection , replacing the distributor with distributorless ignition, K=N filters, deleting the cats and a hand fabbed lightweight exhaust.. We estimated the power gain at OVER 100Hp, and it felt it, car was night and day..

Yes, we removed all that.. I hate that big massive front rubber bumper.. And those stupid rear bumperettes..

Yep. I couldn't believe how heavy the OEM exhaust was on my car!!!!!! Here is a side-by-side comparison.

 

Also, that USA front bumper is a monstrosity too!!! Mine is wrapped up in cardboard in the rafters above the garage. It was all I could do to lift that thing up there by myself!!! IT IS HEAVY!!!!!!!

 

Mike

Oh lordy...

 

A U.S Version Qv is rated at 420 hp, and the Euro 455... Ive never done any performance tests in any of them, no vbox etc.. All I have is seat of the pants.. Ive driven 1 DD, and driven in another. And driven countless other Cts, from 5000s to Qv's.. According to magazines, for example Road and Track from back in the day, they tested both a Euro and U.S CT, the Euro ran 12.80@ 112, the U.S 13.0@110...

 

Mods on my car consisted of taking off the U.S. bumpers ( good 50lb savings), replacing the entire Bosch Cis injection system ( from memory that saved close to 50lbs) with an Electromotive electronic fuel injection , replacing the distributor with distributorless ignition, K=N filters, deleting the cats and a hand fabbed lightweight exhaust.. We estimated the power gain at OVER 100Hp, and it felt it, car was night and day..

 

I never dynoed my car, but Dennis, who is on Lp, has a similar setup, but using Motec his car dynoed at over 420 rwhp... THATS AT THE WHEELS... No DD will make that much power at the wheels, even if tuned by Bob Wallace himself.. Thats more Hp than my Diablo SV made with full exhaust (416rwhp)...

 

 

 

 

1. 370HP OR 420.....make up your mind.

 

2.) The only 'mods' you actually made will, wouldnt, will never, deliver anything like 100 hp on a CT...... What you have done is reduce the weight back down to a Euro CT.

 

 

So, I maintain, a well set euro CT DD, also with free-flow pipes, will not be any less competent than the car which you owned......following the description you have given in relation to additional works done.

 

You have no experience of these cars, as you state.....and yet you have no belief in what anyone else who has.........has to say. .

 

 

Also, the performance figures you provide are nonsense, as you well know.... you have taken the slowest ever result for a euro with wing against the fastest FI without......all the other tests show a gap of 1.5 to 2 secs difference between the two by 100mph marker alone.....not to mention some of the crazy figures delivered by auto motor und sport etc.....

 

 

Oh Lordy indeed......I still dont agree with you.

 

 

Just to humour you I will speak to Pullen at CS on Mon.....who if there is anything need to be know about Ct's modded or stock is the chap to ask. If I'm wrong I will be the first to put my hands up....but I am confident.

 

 

" Alfieri actually started the Quattrovalvole programme after the arrival of the Testarossa. Valentino smiles and tells it like it is: ‘We wanted this engine to be more powerful than Ferrari’s.’ Alfieri aimed for 450bhp and cleaner exhaust emissions – and achieved them using brand new four-valve cylinder heads and centrally mounted downdraught carburettors (which required a vision-robbing, re-profiled engine cover).On the test bed, the uprated engine – enlarged to 5167cc – produced 480bhp, but that was throttled back to 455bhp for the production version. Torque, too, was up substantially to 369lb ft. "

1. 370HP OR 420.....make up your mind.

 

2.) The only 'mods' you actually made will, wouldnt, will never, deliver anything like 100 hp on a CT...... What you have done is reduce the weight back down to a Euro CT.

 

 

So, I maintain, a well set euro CT DD, also with free-flow pipes, will not be any less competent than the car which you owned......following the description you have given in relation to additional works done.

 

You have no experience of these cars, as you state.....and yet you have no belief in what anyone else who has.........has to say. .

 

 

Also, the performance figures you provide are nonsense, as you well know.... you have taken the slowest ever result for a euro with wing against the fastest FI without......all the other tests show a gap of 1.5 to 2 secs difference between the two by 100mph marker alone.....not to mention some of the crazy figures delivered by auto motor und sport etc.....

 

 

Oh Lordy indeed......I still dont agree with you.

 

 

Just to humour you I will speak to Pullen at CS on Mon.....who if there is anything need to be know about Ct's modded or stock is the chap to ask. If I'm wrong I will be the first to put my hands up....but I am confident.

 

 

" Alfieri actually started the Quattrovalvole programme after the arrival of the Testarossa. Valentino smiles and tells it like it is: ‘We wanted this engine to be more powerful than Ferrari’s.’ Alfieri aimed for 450bhp and cleaner exhaust emissions – and achieved them using brand new four-valve cylinder heads and centrally mounted downdraught carburettors (which required a vision-robbing, re-profiled engine cover).On the test bed, the uprated engine – enlarged to 5167cc – produced 480bhp, but that was throttled back to 455bhp for the production version. Torque, too, was up substantially to 369lb ft. "

 

 

I said 370hp, is more like what they REALLY make on todays real world dynoes, not on the jenky engine dyno they used to use at Lambo in the 60's...

 

I have every single roadtest of a Countach, and you are HIGH thinking there was any print of the difference to 100mph being 2 seconds.. The fast roadtest ever of a EURO CT was done by Fastlane.. They recorded a speed of 192mph..... Unfortunately their highly accurate timing device was timing themselves via stopwatch between mile markers...

 

So in all actuality, what you have done is remove all doubt and that you are indeed.. CLUELESS

Test where BOTH a U.S. and Euro version were tested...

 

Euro 12.8@111

U.S 13.3@111