Why is it not a crime for people to strip homes they lose in foreclosure?

My brother is house shopping, and while there are lots of good deals as you can imagine, the number of houses that are stripped of sinks, cabinets, fixtures, hot water heater, cabinet doors, AC units. It's ridiculous.

The mortgage is on the structure and land, not the contents. Therefore the mortgage company and previous home owner have equal rights to them. Why would there be uneven entitlement either way? If that family invested in those things, then its theirs no matter where it's installed.

 

Best

My brother is house shopping, and while there are lots of good deals as you can imagine, the number of houses that are stripped of sinks, cabinets, fixtures, hot water heater, cabinet doors, AC units. It's ridiculous.

I agree - but it's probably difficult to police/enforce

 

When shopping for our current house - we looked at one that was selling as a result of divorce.

 

When we pulled up the drive we noticed the fixtures on either side of the garage had been removed. Bare wires were sticking out. As we toured the house we saw evidence of fixtures normally considered permanent that were missing.

 

That was a BIG red flag. If that was on the surface - who knows what else might be discovered? We moved on in our search - quickly....

 

Reminiscent of War of the Roses

 

 

 

I've been looking around at the condo market the past 2-3 months and it's often the same story. The nicest ones I've seen are still occupied by the current owners. Everything else is gutted. I've seen missing faceplates on light switches, screws missing from fixtures, etc. it's crazy! What are they really doing with all of this shit?

IMHO foreclosure is a very personal & traumatic event for most people, it generates alot of hostility and anger on the part of the evictees. I would venture to say that in most cases the vandalism is done out of spite a sort of "If I can't have it no one can" attitude.

The mortgage is on the structure and land, not the contents. Therefore the mortgage company and previous home owner have equal rights to them. Why would there be uneven entitlement either way? If that family invested in those things, then its theirs no matter where it's installed.

 

Best

 

 

Not necessarily true. The mortgage is on the structure, land and fixtures. Personal property is something that is not attached to the real property (home, building, etc.) You have every right to remove personal property (TV's, refrigerator, washer/dryer,etc.) , but you cannot remove something that is fixed to the real estate. A mortgage will typically address this. Google "Fixture vs. Chattel" to learn more.

 

To the OP...it is a crime to remove a fixture from the property. I have seen cases here in Minneapolis where felony charges are being brought against previous homeowners for vandalism and theft. And I fully support this. Most lenders just don't have the time/resources/motivation to pursue this.

 

If you don't pay your mortgage and lose your home, why should you be able to destroy the only collateral that the bank holds by removing your kitchen cabinets and bringing your HVAC system with you? It's not yours ANYMORE.

Not necessarily true. The mortgage is on the structure, land and fixtures. Personal property is something that is not attached to the real property (home, building, etc.) You have every right to remove personal property (TV's, refrigerator, washer/dryer,etc.) , but you cannot remove something that is fixed to the real estate. A mortgage will typically address this. Google "Fixture vs. Chattel" to learn more.

 

To the OP...it is a crime to remove a fixture from the property. I have seen cases here in Minneapolis where felony charges are being brought against previous homeowners for vandalism and theft. And I fully support this. Most lenders just don't have the time/resources/motivation to pursue this.

 

If you don't pay your mortgage and lose your home, why should you be able to destroy the only collateral that the bank holds by removing your kitchen cabinets and bringing your HVAC system with you? It's not yours ANYMORE.

 

 

Adam,

 

I agree completely. I really was not specific in my post, but I was talking about the appliances, furniture, custom built appliances (like a integrated tool box/shed in a garage) etc. I do not support the removal or electrical outlets/wiring, ceiling fans, cabinets, etc. All that does is strain that home lender even more so, thus making it harder for other people to obtain financing. My apologies for being overly broad in my response.

 

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I too think it's ridiculous. Kitchen appliances/washer+dryer MAYBE, but not AC, water heater, cabinets, toilets, bathroom vanities, etc.

 

Alot of the foreclosures in Miami have serious vandalism done to them by the previous homeowner. I think they should all go to jail (the people who vandalize).

Not necessarily true. The mortgage is on the structure, land and fixtures. Personal property is something that is not attached to the real property (home, building, etc.) You have every right to remove personal property (TV's, refrigerator, washer/dryer,etc.) , but you cannot remove something that is fixed to the real estate. A mortgage will typically address this. Google "Fixture vs. Chattel" to learn more.

 

To the OP...it is a crime to remove a fixture from the property. I have seen cases here in Minneapolis where felony charges are being brought against previous homeowners for vandalism and theft. And I fully support this. Most lenders just don't have the time/resources/motivation to pursue this.

 

If you don't pay your mortgage and lose your home, why should you be able to destroy the only collateral that the bank holds by removing your kitchen cabinets and bringing your HVAC system with you? It's not yours ANYMORE.

 

 

Correct.

Not only that, what about the fact that if you have an out standing mortgage, its technically not even your home. The bank still owns the majority of it.

I had a showing on a two story home, where the previous home owner had clogged the kitchen sink, left it running, and left the house. All the hardwood flooring on the first floor was a total loss and it smelt of mildew walking in.

 

I asked the realtor about it and he said the bank typically send the repair bill to the homeowner but who knows if they're able to actually collect any of the money.

I had a showing on a two story home, where the previous home owner had clogged the kitchen sink, left it running, and left the house. All the hardwood flooring on the first floor was a total loss and it smelt of mildew walking in.

 

I asked the realtor about it and he said the bank typically send the repair bill to the homeowner but who knows if they're able to actually collect any of the money.

 

 

The best one I've seen yet was a foreclosure about 6 months ago I was pursuing as an investment property. The previous homeowner removed all the toilets and poured what must have been 10lbs of unfinished steel nails down the pipes, and then reinstalled the toilets. It didn't take too long to discover, but being that the P-Trap is constantly filled with water, they were rusted solid by the time anyone became aware of the vandalism.

 

Shit like that is only fixed one way and it involves removing a significant portion of the foundation and getting down to the cuts of the plumbing.

 

Needless to say I passed on that place even though it was a good deal and not THAT hard to repair the obvious, but the unknowns scared the crap out of me.

 

Look around on craigslist sometime, you'll be amazed how many high end appliances, and entire kitchens right down to the countertops are for sale.

I bought a trust deed sale where I had to evict the previous owner. Upon serving him I posted a 24 hour notice of entry, and took pictures of everything in the house. On the night before the lockout he stripped the house of all the doors, closets, fixtures, moldings and lighting. As soon as I walked in and saw what he did, I filed a theft and vandalism claim. Picked his picture out of a line up and he was arrested. Got all the stuff back and some cash to make it right.

We just need to make mortgages sticky like they do in Canada. If you bail you are on the hook for the difference in price between what you owe and what the bank is able to sell the house for. We'd have a lot less speculators buying houses they can't afford (not so much a problem now as it was before the bubble) and alot less people saying "oh, i'm underwater, i'll just let it foreclose or get close and hope obama cuts what I owe in half".

 

We are rewarding the wrong people with modifications, principle forgiveness, etc. Reward the people who are on time with their payments and make an example out of the good people.

We are rewarding the wrong people with modifications, principle forgiveness, etc. Reward the people who are on time with their payments and make an example out of the good people.

 

God forbid I get rewarded for buying well within my means.

If you don't pay your mortgage and lose your home, why should you be able to destroy the only collateral that the bank holds by removing your kitchen cabinets and bringing your HVAC system with you? It's not yours ANYMORE.

 

Some states differ on how ownership is held. In Illinois, you own the property and the bank has a lien against it. You can do anything you want to your house, as long as the Deed is still in your name.

 

This whole foreclosure debacle is a mess and has caused so many problems, destroyed houses and their effect on deteriorating the values of good homes is just one of them.

So many crazy stories!

The best one I've seen yet was a foreclosure about 6 months ago I was pursuing as an investment property. The previous homeowner removed all the toilets and poured what must have been 10lbs of unfinished steel nails down the pipes, and then reinstalled the toilets. It didn't take too long to discover, but being that the P-Trap is constantly filled with water, they were rusted solid by the time anyone became aware of the vandalism.

 

Shit like that is only fixed one way and it involves removing a significant portion of the foundation and getting down to the cuts of the plumbing.

 

Needless to say I passed on that place even though it was a good deal and not THAT hard to repair the obvious, but the unknowns scared the crap out of me.

 

Look around on craigslist sometime, you'll be amazed how many high end appliances, and entire kitchens right down to the countertops are for sale.

I see the Estate Sale Everything Must Go on craigslist all the time. They say something to the effect that they are renovating the kitchen, so everything is up for grabs. I'm pretty sure I walked into one of those houses for another showing when random things were missing from the house: kitchen GONE! Sink gone in bathroom, toilet gone in another bathroom, AC units gone, and so on and so forth.

what kind of degenerate do you have to be , to a:not be able to pay your mortgage, b: tear the house apart for appliances.

 

its like those losers that have their car repo'd and vandalize it for no good measure.

 

 

 

what kind of degenerate do you have to be , to a:not be able to pay your mortgage, b: tear the house apart for appliances.

 

its like those losers that have their car repo'd and vandalize it for no good measure.

 

It's the if I can't have it no one can mentality, aka a bunch people who can't take responsibility for the actions that got them into this mess in the first place.

 

The sad thing is most people in that situation feel like they are being wronged by the banks/govt.

The sad thing is most people in that situation feel like they are being wronged by the banks/govt.

 

Bingo! Nothing is their fault. Someone put a gun to their head and told them they HAD to buy that 1mil house on their $100,000 net income in a neighborhood where the house should be worth half that....

Some states differ on how ownership is held. In Illinois, you own the property and the bank has a lien against it. You can do anything you want to your house, as long as the Deed is still in your name.

 

This whole foreclosure debacle is a mess and has caused so many problems, destroyed houses and their effect on deteriorating the values of good homes is just one of them.

 

Nope. Ownership is the same across all 50 states as far as I know (someone correct me if I'm wrong). If you own the house, you own the house. Now, what is different is how the security interest is held by the lender and that is what you are referring to (deed of trust vs. mortgage). Both, however, essentially accomplish the same thing. Neither one provides any more latitude than the other in how (or whether you may) destroy your house in the process of moving out during foreclosure. It's not allowed in any case.

 

Per the deed of trust or mortgage( i.e. - the security instrument), you CANNOT do whatever you want to the house - even though you are the legal owner. When you sign your security instrument with your lender, your rights in the property are limited and narrowed in scope. The limiting factor at hand is that you are acknowledging that you will not cause any adverse effects to the collateral.

 

A common example of this is when someone decides to knock their house down and rebuild. The security instrument doesn't allow this and the lender may call the loan due even though you are current on payments and are just trying to replace the home with something newer/better.