Aftermarket wheel failure - Just saw this

I love how ADV stands behind their product. I doubt many larger brand would care to send an apology and provide documentation on testing methods and certifications.

 

I love how ADV stands behind their product. I doubt many larger brand would care to send an apology and provide documentation on testing methods and certifications.

I bet they would to avoid a nasty lawsuit...

Just quickly throwing this in, Volk Rays wheels actually makes OE wheels for companies like Nissan for example. If you're planning on doing some racing or hard driving, I would recommend companies like Rays engineering & BBS just as First stated.

Its noteworthy that Enkei makes OE wheels as well for Honda / Acura

We are discussing about high performance vehicles's OE wheels here. In this regard, no I have not seen nor hear of any defects yet. I am surrounded by tonnes of cars and yet I don't hear them. maybe I just haven't, granted. Do remember most of these defects happens on multi pcs wheels. Hardly if any on one piece wheels

 

Tyres yes of course. I had one blowing on me with 2000km. Don't stray to other parts of a vehicle just to make a point.. I'm speaking of wheels here. however I did hear back long ago of an OE wheel by a non performance car failing. These are substandard budget wheels being used after the family sedan was highly modded pas 400whp, way beyond that wheels specification and load.

 

With Rays and BBS, Esp rays, never heard of a failure. When bought NEW. Not used. You can't compare a 1yr old wheel with a 5yr one can you? The stressed and abuse are different too.

i wonder why this really doesnt happen in the Harley/custom bike world. maybe because they are typically one piece wheels?

the consequences would be much worse. bad/cracked wheel=death

Just wanted to chime in and say that we take the safety of our product as a primary concern as almost every employee (with the exception of our secretary) has ADV.1 wheels on their personal cars (many of which are tracked). None of us have a death wish and no one at our company would willingly or knowingly endanger our own families. We all have skin in the game at our company and aren't willing to risk safety to make a quick buck or put our customers at risk and our company at liability.

 

This issue as you all know by reading the response was related to a supplier issue and would've affected any manufacture ordering 22" step lip parts during the same time period and affected batch.

 

To address some concerns on "aggressive driving", etc... we fully expect our customers to drive their cars aggressively... we have wheels on everything from 1500whp Gallardo's to 8 second GTR's so under-engineering a product isn't ever a possibility - we do the exact opposite on purpose.

 

This was another response as the the engineering/testing/safety/certification questions that had been raised in that thread but hadn't been posted here yet. Hope it helps clear up any confusion or concern.

 

ADV.1 Testing Procedures and documentation

Due to the recent rumors circulating the internet we felt it was necessary to explain our testing, engineering, and warranty procedures for those interested.

 

Testing Procedures:

All of our forgings are initially engineered around a certain range of vehicle fitments / load ratings. Normally we design the forging die itself around a 2000lb. per corner load rating umbrella. This means that so long as all wheels using this forging are engineered around the tested / certified material thickness minimums based on the test certification, no further testing is required unless an order violates these guidelines for any reason. To give you an example of this, see diagram below.

 

 

For any wheels which do in fact contain material in some areas which is less than the tested / certified guideline minimums, we then use our in house xxx testing equipment. An example of this would be on wheels like our new SL series where they are engineered for the exact vehicle the order is intended for thus the material thickness tolerances may be too conservative for the subject vehicle in question. For example, if we're engineering a set of SL's for an R8 like the schematic below illustrates, the load rating of the vehicle is much less and the necessary material needed for safe use on this vehicle may be much less than the originally tested 2000lb / corner rating. With this being said, we use FEA analysis software to effectively determine the necessary material needed for this car. Once finalized, a physical test wheel is made for destruction testing on our radial and fatigue testing equipment which we've obtained for this exact purpose. Based on the resulting data of the test we then are able to confirm or deny the file which leads to either production of the wheel. revisions to engineering and re-testing, or additional reduction of material in order to further tweak the file for maximum weight reduction.

 

 

Testing procedures of the initial forging / umbrella certification is done by a company called STL or Standard Testing Labs. This is a US based, independent testing facility which provides multiple types of testing procedures. For each individual test subject a certification outlining the results and details is provided, see examples below which we have on file for all ADV.1 Forgings used.

 

 

Our in house radial cornering / fatigue testing equipment also provides documentation on each subject tested, an example of such is shown below:

 

 

In regards to TUV Testing, as many know is something we've been working diligently towards with our German Partners, ATT-Tec in Berlin, is a long process and despite what many believe is actually a never ending requirement needed for every single size, offset, application, PCD, etc. The process is very expensive and time consuming however is the only way to provide customers in Germany with aftermarket products of any type. Below is a detailed explanation written recently by Jordan Swerdloff on this subject:

 

"TUV requires individual testing and certification documents for every single wheel style, in each size, for each application so there's still a long road ahead of us in order to be able to offer all styles to a wide range of vehicles. So far we officially have our ADV5.1 monoblock approved in 20x8.5+18 / 20x11+20 for BMW e92 M3. Each additional certification will only require roughly a week for testing / approval now that the TUV recognizes the company as an approved manufacturer which will soon be added to their database once the paperwork is complete, the majority of the documentation and testing is not needed for each additional certification. Current plans for the remainder of 2012 will include 18 more certifications, 3 styles in both 1 piece and 3 piece track spec configurations, offered to 3 different vehicle platforms.

 

Although there is still a long way to go, this is a huge step in the process of opening the door to Germany. Currently the selection of wheels able to be sold is very limited and the only option enthusiasts have is to either choose from the limited selection of approved brands, mostly cast wheels or to risk fines and even the loss of their vehicles by driving without TUV certified products on their car. Now, through the efforts of our Exclusive German Distributors ATT-Tec, the German market will finally be able to enjoy our wheels without having to worry about the consequences of driving without approved aftermarket components on their vehicles."

 

 

 

ADV.1 Materials / Suppliers

3 Piece center disc forgings:

Material: 6061 T6 Heat Treated Forged Aluminum

Suppliers:

ASA

Centerline

 

1 Piece monoblock forgings:

Material: 6061 T6 Heat Treated Forged Aluminum

Suppliers:

ASA

 

3 Piece rim halves / excluding 21/22 inch Standard reverse parts (step lip):

Material: 5051 Spun Forged Aluminum / 6061 T6 Heat Treated Forged Aluminum

Suppliers:

ARS

Triangle

 

3 Piece 21/22 inch Standard reverse parts (step lip) rim halves:

Material: 6061 T6 Heat Treated Forged Aluminum

Suppliers:

Triangle

 

Machining:

Performed: In house / ADV.1 Dedicated portion of MHT Machining Production Facility

 

Engineering / Programming:

Performed: In house / ADV.1 Staff

 

Matt, you still have our support on ADV wheels. We will continue to run these wheels on our cars!

Thanks man!

I appreciate the detailed response from ADV.

 

My thoughts are along the line of TUV testing. To be "safe" you would have to test every wheel on every car in every fitment which is quite costly and time consuming. Even then you can get a bad material batch or have a machining isssue. Then you have different tires, different tire sizes... There is no reasonable way to guarantee the wheel cannot fail.

 

I think the issue is compounded with the aftermarket wheels as stated that you are typically doing wider and larger diameter which can certainly affect the forces as compared to a stock wheel.

 

Not to mention the number of miles driven on the stock wheels during vehicle testing processes. I think it is safe to say stock wheels go through significanly more real-world testing with one specific vehicle with one specific tire/tire size to boot.

 

Lastly, most stock wheels are boat anchors. At least for the many members here (myself included), we are looking for the lightest, highest performing wheels. Lighter weight = less material = less margin for safety. I am not saying that the wheels are under-engineered but adding additional thickness to the wheels (assuming in this case the original billet is free from defects) would likely increase the safety margin...at an expense to ultimate performance.

 

Although I do value the my safety and those riding with me, I lean toward the analogy made between aftermarket wheels and engine mods...the more you push the envelope, the more likely you will see failures or need additional maintence.

 

I do like the idea of serial/lot numbers so that if issues do arise and they can be tied to source material, any users of said product can be notified and proactive remediation can begin.

Do I think Rays, BBS, etc. make good wheels? Yes.

 

Because they supply OE wheels, does that mean they make better aftermarket wheels? Unless their aftermarket wheels go through all the same testing and requirements as the OE wheels, I don't think that can be assumed. Does Rays test each of their wheels/fitments on every vehicle and road test them for millions of miles? Probably not.

what was the outcome with the lambo in miami with the cracked wheel?

didnt the company stand behind the product? i think that ended well for the customer.

 

either way those are very impressive procedures and measures.