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I haven't seen anyone IN A MURCI go back to AWD, have you? I wouldn't go back to THAT AWD for anything; especially with the power my car is making.

Why would I say it if I didn't see it here? :icon_mrgreen: I will try to remember the screen names and do some search when I have a bit of time.

JonV8944s

http://www.lambopower.com/forum/index.php?...p;#entry1146819

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As much as I loved the extra power of the RWD conversion, I also missed the heavy steering feeling of the AWD so I ended up putting it back plus didn't want to take any risk with insurance. So I ended up putting it back after a month. How much power is enough power? Its never ending.

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I've been saying this for 9 years now. It's THE BEST mod you can do to a Murci. RWD and exhaust saves you 300 pounds and picks up over 10% power to the wheels. I went from 433AWHP to 525RWHP after a new clutch and tuning.

 

The Murci was always meant to be RWD and loves being RWD. It's so much better to drive and so much easier to control at the limit.

 

Just set the car up to Diablo SV spec and lower it 3/4" in the front to compensate for the weight loss.

 

Oh, and Raj....you're welcome! :icon_mrgreen:

 

 

Awhp and rwhp are two different forms of measuring power at the wheels.. it does not mean you gained 100hp..

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So question. There was the black wrapped one your shop did the conversion on that ended up Totalled soon after. Was the change to 2wd the reason?

No, old and cold tires mixed with unfortunate circumstances is.

 

Awhp and rwhp are two different forms of measuring power at the wheels.. it does not mean you gained 100hp..

Correct, it means you gained 100whp. Engine output went up more marginally.

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I haven't seen anyone IN A MURCI go back to AWD, have you? I wouldn't go back to THAT AWD for anything; especially with the power my car is making.

 

Kind of hard to see if you chose to ignore it when you do :)

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Kind of hard to see if you chose to ignore it when you do :)

:lol2: Definitely hadn't seen Jon's post! Very interesting, but after 9 years and 20,000 miles in RWD, I disagree strongly with his views! :)

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I am sorry, but converting to RWD is no different than the SV.. If it was the drive axles that were at fault, it was not because they were not strong enough.. Something else happened.

 

There are plenty of guys that wreck their cars because they are over confident in the AWD system..

 

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I am going to call BS that it was solely 2WD that caused the wreck, especially at 200kph.

 

So question. There was the black wrapped one your shop did the conversion on that ended up Totalled soon after. Was the change to 2wd the reason?

Someone posted up that he was showing off when he lost control of the car.

 

So does it effect handling? Nick's parts are the only reason I started considering this. Dropping what 300lbs. Is a huge gain. I don't want to sacrifice my car doing so obviously.

 

When I was a stupid kid I bought the wrong tires for my Porsche 944 and that resulted in the car getting totaled.

 

I just got my car so I'm still pretty cautious with it but as I drive it more I'll loosen up.

It's a 640bhp car, you're going to need to keep the same sanity of controlling the car with 2WD as AWD. Just remember that with 2WD you will get more wheel spin at WOT in low gears than with AWD (which still produces wheel spin), but it's completely controllable. If you are sideways, the tail is going to kick out more. If you're driving in poor conditions, AWD is going to be better. Above 3rd gear, a 2WD LP640 is going to be surprising a lot of 'faster' cars.

 

The only time I wish I had AWD was driving in snow.

 

I've been watching RWD conversion topics for years and the consensus seems to be that it's great initially but most go back to AWD after the honeymoon period is finished, various reasons are quoted, still interesting to see.

From what I've seen, the majority stay 2WD.

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From what I've seen, the majority stay 2WD.

 

I'd like to clarify my initial comment, obviously I am not aware of all of the RWD conversions which took place, my comment was based on the hand full of guys which announced their conversions here, perhaps outside LP there are many more converted Lambos but to me if you aren't in here you don't count :icon_mrgreen:

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  • 2 weeks later...
No, old and cold tires mixed with unfortunate circumstances is.

 

 

Correct, it means you gained 100whp. Engine output went up more marginally.

 

 

Just to be clear, are you counting years that your murci has been undriveable in those 9 years? Or has Stig SV Turbo Monster 2k been unleashed onto the world and driving well in its 2WD condition? I think there is fluff in your 9 years, I have only 2, but mine is a valid perspective, we certainly can dissagree (kind of a mainstay for us). And your 20,000 miles regardless of years spent aquiring them is certainly noteable (roughly double mine). But we might want to call out, that I am guessing you never had an 04-06 Murci egear car? It makes a difference. STICK cars are more 'controlable' and some of my notes wouldnt apply. also 07+ egear cars are much revised and have a different rear differential then pre 07 cars.

 

In the end, my perspective is relative to a 04-06 Egear car, and I firmly stand by it.

 

Thanks!

 

Jon

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Just to be clear, are you counting years that your murci has been undriveable in those 9 years? Or has Stig SV Turbo Monster 2k been unleashed onto the world and driving well in its 2WD condition? I think there is fluff in your 9 years, I have only 2, but mine is a valid perspective, we certainly can dissagree (kind of a mainstay for us). And your 20,000 miles regardless of years spent aquiring them is certainly noteable (roughly double mine). But we might want to call out, that I am guessing you never had an 04-06 Murci egear car? It makes a difference. STICK cars are more 'controlable' and some of my notes wouldnt apply. also 07+ egear cars are much revised and have a different rear differential then pre 07 cars.

 

In the end, my perspective is relative to a 04-06 Egear car, and I firmly stand by it.

 

Thanks!

 

Jon

 

Yes, the 20-odd months my car was being completed was counted on that. My SVTT has been doing beautifully over its first 1,000+ miles in RWD, and I counted the 6 years I had my '03 in RWD as well.

 

Nothing wrong with disagreeing. I've driven RWD in E-gear and Manual (granted the E-gear was a '10 and, like you said, far superior to earlier cars) and would never, under any circumstance, recommend or choose AWD over RWD. But that's me. To each his own.

 

My perspective is relative to '03 Manual, '10 E-gear, and maybe 10 miles of '06 E-gear.

 

:icon_thumleft:

 

 

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Yes, the 20-odd months my car was being completed was counted on that. My SVTT has been doing beautifully over its first 1,000+ miles in RWD, and I counted the 6 years I had my '03 in RWD as well.

 

Nothing wrong with disagreeing. I've driven RWD in E-gear and Manual (granted the E-gear was a '10 and, like you said, far superior to earlier cars) and would never, under any circumstance, recommend or choose AWD over RWD. But that's me. To each his own.

 

My perspective is relative to '03 Manual, '10 E-gear, and maybe 10 miles of '06 E-gear.

 

:icon_thumleft:

 

All good.

 

Not busting balls, but your car is done? Is there a formal post on it? I have to imagine at the higher power levels, the parasitic loss of AWD is nearly irrelevant and AWD would have significant advantages to putting the power down. More tread usage, the better it is to put the power down. Stock NA power levels sure RWD can manage, but at extreme power levels... sorry we dissagree again, I think DEFINITELY AWD is king. and I'm positive track times would show that as well.

 

Anyways, link me to the post about the completion, you have dyno results and stats? (This is not ball busting, as fun as that is over you, that horse has been killed so many fcuking times now, I'd really like to just see what finally came true).

 

Peace

 

Jon

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  • 1 month later...

Be warned: http://www.lambopower.com/forum/index.php?...p;#entry1161310

 

Its not a matter of IF its going to happen to you, its a matter of WHEN. (This applies to 02-06 Murci RWD conversions). Factory figured it out, and improved the design on +07.

 

If you want to do RWD, have a 07+ lp640, OR get an lp640 differential (beefed up design, less likely to have the output shaft failure) and replace your stock one with it.

 

 

Just sharing the message, dont shoot me.

 

 

When your output shafts break, reach out to me :), I'll walk you through the expensive replacement options. (I have nothing to sell you, just guidance).

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Its not a matter of IF its going to happen to you, its a matter of WHEN. (This applies to 02-06 Murci RWD conversions). Factory figured it out, and improved the design on +07.

That's a bit much.

 

Out of the dozens of 2WD owners I speak with, Raging and you are the only two that I've heard of this happening to. Further, there are multiple 2WD owners that have logged tens of thousands of miles over multiple years with zero issues.

 

 

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That's a bit much.

 

Out of the dozens of 2WD owners I speak with, Raging and you are the only two that I've heard of this happening to. Further, there are multiple 2WD owners that have logged tens of thousands of miles over multiple years with zero issues.

Yes, I never had issues or had even heard of such a problem until a few days ago.

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That's a bit much.

 

Out of the dozens of 2WD owners I speak with, Raging and you are the only two that I've heard of this happening to. Further, there are multiple 2WD owners that have logged tens of thousands of miles over multiple years with zero issues.

 

 

Hey Whiteout,

 

 

Lets be clear, I am explicitly talking about 02-06 cars, with the 'worst' being the Egear cars. I have trouble believing you have dozens of 2wd NON LP640 egear car owners. Egears have MUCH harsher shifts then a stick car, and each of those 'mule kicks' in 2wd slowly pound the planetary output shaft gears into submission. If you have a regular muci in 2wd mode AND you drive it semi-sedately, then you likely will never see this (but then, why go to 2wd if its not to ring the piss out of the car). The 640 cars do not count in my statement, as I said, they have a MUCH improved rear differential (as I stated in another thread, I have both sitting in my garage, and did an extensive review, I'm proud to own a lp640 differential, its kick ass over the original design.

 

So as always, I am not hear to rain on anyones parade, but share my automotive knowledge, which like many here has been far more years then I'd like to admit (means I'm old), so If this upsets people that I shared this, so be it. Go forward and do this mod, and know that I will not say 'i told ya so' but instead help you figure out some solutions. I am only here to help (and be helped on stuff I need), so in the interest of fairness, I will reiterate, my strong belief is that its definitely only a matter of time before egear 04-06 cars who are RWD have this failure (but I and guessing very few exist in this configuration), or 02-06 STICK cars that I driven HARD (as they should be).

 

Nothing to be ashamed of here, with the proliferation of the 2wd conversion, statistically, weakest link was going to present itself, and more examples will come... and i will help if I can.

 

Thanks!

 

Jon

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The fact that two cars have broken the gear shows it is a weak point. But in no way does that mean every car is going to fail, that is a blanket statement. Two people stepping forward with the issue is not sufficient to call a common occurrence, or even close to claim it will happen to every car.

 

As far as how hard the car is driven... I have clients that have doughnut videos, frequent the drag strip, slide the cars around, do burnouts, etc. None of them have come to me with any driveline issues. Personally, I've logged over 20k miles 2WD and my last car was launched dozens of times, slid the car around, did burnouts, etc. If it was a stress thing I would have likely broken the gear because I put that car through the paces. Further, if this was a common issue, more people would be contacting the place where they purchased the 2WD kit from (ie me) or likely posting up on the forums.

 

But as you said, you're not here to 'rain on anyone's parade' and gave your personal experience to the forum, which is great. Your knowledge in the Murci rear diff might spark a trend to develop a hardened gear so there is a cheaper and stronger alternative to OEM in the event of future failure. Any knowledge of experience in modifying these cars is helpful since there is a very small pool of people who deal with them to pass on the knowledge.

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Hey Whiteout,

 

 

Lets be clear, I am explicitly talking about 02-06 cars, with the 'worst' being the Egear cars. I have trouble believing you have dozens of 2wd NON LP640 egear car owners. Egears have MUCH harsher shifts then a stick car, and each of those 'mule kicks' in 2wd slowly pound the planetary output shaft gears into submission. If you have a regular muci in 2wd mode AND you drive it semi-sedately, then you likely will never see this (but then, why go to 2wd if its not to ring the piss out of the car). The 640 cars do not count in my statement, as I said, they have a MUCH improved rear differential (as I stated in another thread, I have both sitting in my garage, and did an extensive review, I'm proud to own a lp640 differential, its kick ass over the original design.

 

So as always, I am not hear to rain on anyones parade, but share my automotive knowledge, which like many here has been far more years then I'd like to admit (means I'm old), so If this upsets people that I shared this, so be it. Go forward and do this mod, and know that I will not say 'i told ya so' but instead help you figure out some solutions. I am only here to help (and be helped on stuff I need), so in the interest of fairness, I will reiterate, my strong belief is that its definitely only a matter of time before egear 04-06 cars who are RWD have this failure (but I and guessing very few exist in this configuration), or 02-06 STICK cars that I driven HARD (as they should be).

 

Nothing to be ashamed of here, with the proliferation of the 2wd conversion, statistically, weakest link was going to present itself, and more examples will come... and i will help if I can.

 

Thanks!

 

Jon

 

Jon, I bet you have a ton of friends. You sound nothing like the arrogant narcissistic person everyone says you are.

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The fact that two cars have broken the gear shows it is a weak point. But in no way does that mean every car is going to fail, that is a blanket statement. Two people stepping forward with the issue is not sufficient to call a common occurrence, or even close to claim it will happen to every car.

 

As far as how hard the car is driven... I have clients that have doughnut videos, frequent the drag strip, slide the cars around, do burnouts, etc. None of them have come to me with any driveline issues. Personally, I've logged over 20k miles 2WD and my last car was launched dozens of times, slid the car around, did burnouts, etc. If it was a stress thing I would have likely broken the gear because I put that car through the paces. Further, if this was a common issue, more people would be contacting the place where they purchased the 2WD kit from (ie me) or likely posting up on the forums.

 

But as you said, you're not here to 'rain on anyone's parade' and gave your personal experience to the forum, which is great. Your knowledge in the Murci rear diff might spark a trend to develop a hardened gear so there is a cheaper and stronger alternative to OEM in the event of future failure. Any knowledge of experience in modifying these cars is helpful since there is a very small pool of people who deal with them to pass on the knowledge.

 

Curious, where did I say they would all fail? I think I articulated that the problem area are the 2002-2006, with the worst being the egear cars, because the WOT shifts in sport mode are very brutal in those cars (but tons of fun). Its actually 3 failures, as I completed replaced my differential with another unit from an 04, and a year later, it popped. As far as your driving style, yes, I have to believe its inline with mine and you should see the problem too eventually. Please note, a ton of people (as is the nature of exotics), prefer to pretend there is nothing wrong with their car (again not saying everyone), and are very closed lip about any negative things that occurred with it. Even I stayed away from sharing it, thinking it must just be me, until I realized that now 2 of these have failed for me, and someone else is seeing the same issue, I thought I should speak up, and provide guidance. You and I know each other and can contact each other outside of here, so I think we both see the value of the conversation for others, I did get your request (and responded to it) for my broken one, maybe you have a group that can produce better ones? I'm willing to help and even pilot the setup in my car (before I switch to lp640 setup). But without you getting worked up (you never do, which makes these good conversations), do you have a break down of what clients of yours have for cars, that did the conversion? I have to believe its mostly 2007+ cars for us to not be seeing this problem so much. I'm scratching my head, the design is flawed, and it takes about 1 year of sport driving to fail the unit, so I am curious if its just that non lp640 guys arent buying them, or they are driving 'normal' (but why would they get the 2wd setup, if they werent interested in white knuckle experience that comes with a RWD car with no active handling). Just curious, I know its a problem, becuase the factory figured out its a problem, they completely changed the design for this area on the lp640s.

 

Jon, I bet you have a ton of friends. You sound nothing like the arrogant narcissistic person everyone says you are.

 

Oh shit, everyone's talking about me, wow... :jackoff:

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Jon, this post implies that the gear will fail in all pre-LP cars:

Its not a matter of IF its going to happen to you, its a matter of WHEN. (This applies to 02-06 Murci RWD conversions). Factory figured it out, and improved the design on +07.

 

If you want to do RWD, have a 07+ lp640, OR get an lp640 differential (beefed up design, less likely to have the output shaft failure) and replace your stock one with it.

 

 

I don’t have a specific break down and I don’t share client information, but the majority of my clients are pre-LP Murci's and Diablo's. There are only a handful of LP640's which have converted (maybe this thread will spike up sales?). While I completely understand your concern with having the gear fail on your car twice, there needs to be more of a failure rate than two cars, one with two failures, to think that the failure will happen to EVERY car. Especially when there are multiple cars that have been pushed hard for years and tens of thousands of miles without an issue.

 

Obviously it’s an issue that can occur, but I think there is another factor besides RWD & non-LP rear diff causing these gears to fail.

 

I agree that people are tight-lipped about their vehicle’s condition, but usually when someone has a problem, they go to the source of where it can be resolved with information or parts. Between me and D.Wiggs, the chances of people regularly blowing out this gear would have come out long ago.

 

There is a lot of value to what we each bring to these discussions. I think it might be a good option to have a design made so if there are failures in the future, there is an option outside of OEM. Also, I would like to see the gear so I can better wrap my head around the design and failure. Based on your experience, if the LP640 diff is that much stronger over non-LP and replacing this gear is a PITA, it would be a better option than simply replacing a broken gear with a stronger version of the gear for those who have a failure.

 

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Jon, this post implies that the gear will fail in all pre-LP cars:

 

 

 

I don’t have a specific break down and I don’t share client information, but the majority of my clients are pre-LP Murci's and Diablo's. There are only a handful of LP640's which have converted (maybe this thread will spike up sales?). While I completely understand your concern with having the gear fail on your car twice, there needs to be more of a failure rate than two cars, one with two failures, to think that the failure will happen to EVERY car. Especially when there are multiple cars that have been pushed hard for years and tens of thousands of miles without an issue.

 

Obviously it’s an issue that can occur, but I think there is another factor besides RWD & non-LP rear diff causing these gears to fail.

 

I agree that people are tight-lipped about their vehicle’s condition, but usually when someone has a problem, they go to the source of where it can be resolved with information or parts. Between me and D.Wiggs, the chances of people regularly blowing out this gear would have come out long ago.

 

There is a lot of value to what we each bring to these discussions. I think it might be a good option to have a design made so if there are failures in the future, there is an option outside of OEM. Also, I would like to see the gear so I can better wrap my head around the design and failure. Based on your experience, if the LP640 diff is that much stronger over non-LP and replacing this gear is a PITA, it would be a better option than simply replacing a broken gear with a stronger version of the gear for those who have a failure.

 

Its actually easier (ok maybe quicker), to change out the gear then it is the whole differential. I'll be interested to see if others start having this issue.

 

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  • 4 years later...

Ok, I had a request for a rear diff for a pre-LP Murcielago, the man had broken 1 or 2 and the problem was that the spider gears were getting eaten off.

 

pic of proof

A5FE5076-711F-4BCC-A916-FABEE2FA5689.jpeg

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5 hours ago, k-works said:

Ok, I had a request for a rear diff for a pre-LP Murcielago, the man had broken 1 or 2 and the problem was that the spider gears were getting eaten off.

 

 

 

 

Any specific driving  style that contributed to this?

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