Gallardo successor HURACAN information and release

Aventador LP700-4 coupe has a top speed of 217 MPH and independently tested 0-60 of 2.8 seconds (R&T, C&D). What are the corresponding figures for the MP4-12C?

Instead of looking at hypothetical numbers look at actual races the MP4 has beat the Aventador ever since they were all updated. The power to weight ratio favors the MP4 by about 10% so it should be no surprise.

My gut tells me the car will essentially be a mini-Aventador. Carbon monocoque architecture, 600hp, heavily digital interior, awd at first release and most importantly ... Faster than the MP4!

 

Let's see how light the car is....the aventador is much heavier with its carbon structure than Lamborghini lists it at.

 

If they can get it in the 3400lb range with full street trim and gas then I would say they succeeded

Instead of looking at hypothetical numbers look at actual races the MP4 has beat the Aventador ever since they were all updated. The power to weight ratio favors the MP4 by about 10% so it should be no surprise.

Look at sales numbers. Lambo won the race.

Look at sales numbers. Lambo won the race.

You mean Lambo has sold more Aventadors than Mclaren Mp-4s?

You mean Lambo has sold more Aventadors than Mclaren Mp-4s?

 

 

I have no idea. It was a joke. The Aventador is a huge success and the MP4 has been a huge failure. I like the MP4, its a great car, but it hasn't done well. Lamborghini is still on a 1-2 year waiting list for the Aventador.

Instead of looking at hypothetical numbers look at actual races the MP4 has beat the Aventador ever since they were all updated. The power to weight ratio favors the MP4 by about 10% so it should be no surprise.

Hypothetical? No, these numbers are real and obtained under proper and standardized test conditions. I am not sure exactly what you mean by "actual races" but if you mean YouTube videos and street drag races then the results for most part are far from real! Were the cars ECU tuned or not? Were they running the same tires or not? Were the suspension setups changed from factory settings or not? Were the driver in each car equally skilled/experienced or not? These variables are not controlled in most of the so called races you see being conducted by amateurs. While respected magazines cite test conditions and equalize the variables and offer more accurate test results.

 

So far since the boost increase on the MP4 12C, I have not seen a single set of test results under standardized test conditions that show better performance for the 12C a than the LP700-4 tested by R&T and C&D. A factory stock 12 C is not faster than a stock LP700 let alone a 720-4.

 

Your point about power to weight favoring the 12C is not necessarily an indicator of performance as variables such as gearing, suspension set up, brakes and power and torque delivery characteristics also play a major part. This is why a recent comparison test by EVO of the Porsche 991 GT3 with a 12C showed the GT3 to be quicker at that track than a 12C with far superior power to weight ratio.

 

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarrevi..._and_specs.html

(The comparison test starts at 4.25)

 

I would imagine the Gallardo replacement with a naturally aspirated V10 to be faster and certainly better sounding in most practical driving conditions.

I have no idea. It was a joke. The Aventador is a huge success and the MP4 has been a huge failure. I like the MP4, its a great car, but it hasn't done well. Lamborghini is still on a 1-2 year waiting list for the Aventador.

Actually the new car depreciation on the 12C vs the Aventador tell the whole story. Both the Ferrari 458 and the Aventador hold their values better than the 12C. The Aventador is king when it comes to holding its value!

I have no idea. It was a joke. The Aventador is a huge success and the MP4 has been a huge failure. I like the MP4, its a great car, but it hasn't done well. Lamborghini is still on a 1-2 year waiting list for the Aventador.

Not sure id say the Mp4 is a huge failure.. It certainly has its issues though..

Hypothetical? No, these numbers are real and obtained under proper and standardized test conditions. I am not sure exactly what you mean by "actual races" but if you mean YouTube videos and street drag races then the results for most part are far from real! Were the cars ECU tuned or not? Were they running the same tires or not? Were the suspension setups changed from factory settings or not? Were the driver in each car equally skilled/experienced or not? These variables are not controlled in most of the so called races you see being conducted by amateurs. While respected magazines cite test conditions and equalize the variables and offer more accurate test results.

 

So far since the boost increase on the MP4 12C, I have not seen a single set of test results under standardized test conditions that show better performance for the 12C a than the LP700-4 tested by R&T and C&D. A factory stock 12 C is not faster than a stock LP700 let alone a 720-4.

 

Your point about power to weight favoring the 12C is not necessarily an indicator of performance as variables such as gearing, suspension set up, brakes and power and torque delivery characteristics also play a major part. This is why a recent comparison test by EVO of the Porsche 991 GT3 with a 12C showed the GT3 to be quicker at that track than a 12C with far superior power to weight ratio.

 

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarrevi..._and_specs.html

(The comparison test starts at 4.25)

 

I would imagine the Gallardo replacement with a naturally aspirated V10 to be faster and certainly better sounding in most practical driving conditions.

 

It is 100% incorrect that magazines control variables.. First and foremost, magazines dont use dragstrips to obtain numbers. They use a Vbox, and straight road. The roads used can have a downslope, upslope, non prepped surface etc etc... A dragstrip is a controlled environment.. The fact remains.. The Mp4 has proven to to be faster than the Aventador. The Ferrari F12 has proven to be faster than the Aventador..

 

Actually the new car depreciation on the 12C vs the Aventador tell the whole story. Both the Ferrari 458 and the Aventador hold their values better than the 12C. The Aventador is king when it comes to holding its value!

Establishing a strong resale value / desirable product was the most important goal for the MP4. It failed.

 

Not sure id say the Mp4 is a huge failure.. It certainly has its issues though..

 

McLaren's production car department is on it's 3rd boss since the MP4. Resale value is terrible and that's a big issue to overcome for a brand that is new to the market. No company would consider the MP4's sales performance a success. Hopefully the P1 and the p13 can pull them out of this and the MP4 can go down in the books as a little bump along the way to great success. They definitely have some ground to make up.

McLaren's production car department is on it's 3rd boss since the MP4. Resale value is terrible and that's a big issue to overcome for a brand that is new to the market. No company would consider the MP4's sales performance a success. Hopefully the P1 and the p13 can pull them out of this and the MP4 can go down in the books as a little bump along the way to great success. They definitely have some ground to make up.

Despite this, they have still sold several thousand cars for a company entering a new market.. Not to bad..

Despite this, they have still sold several thousand cars for a company entering a new market.. Not to bad..

 

They have invested a lot of money in building a brand. The failure of this product is a huge problem to overcome. I am sure they would have rather have sold 1/3 as many, established a good reputation and have back orders for the next two model years without having to discount new cars.

They have invested a lot of money in building a brand. The failure of this product is a huge problem to overcome. I am sure they would have rather have sold 1/3 as many, established a good reputation and have back orders for the next two model years without having to discount new cars.

True.. When I sold the 458 I was going to jump on the MP4 bandwagon.. glad I didnt..

True.. When I sold the 458 I was going to jump on the MP4 bandwagon.. glad I didnt..

I am double glad. Glad you sold the 458 and glad you didn't get the MP4 at the price you may have paid at that time.

I am double glad. Glad you sold the 458 and glad you didn't get the MP4 at the price you may have paid at that time.

Haha.. I miss the 458 sometimes... but then again I miss my GTT...

Haha.. I miss the 458 sometimes... but then again I miss my GTT...

who cares which one is faster? buy the one you like

Establishing a strong resale value / desirable product was the most important goal for the MP4. It failed.

 

 

 

McLaren's production car department is on it's 3rd boss since the MP4. Resale value is terrible and that's a big issue to overcome for a brand that is new to the market. No company would consider the MP4's sales performance a success. Hopefully the P1 and the p13 can pull them out of this and the MP4 can go down in the books as a little bump along the way to great success. They definitely have some ground to make up.

 

You've clearly never worked at an exotic sports car company.

 

(1) Macca has had two bosses - Mike Flewitt and Anthony Sheriff. I don't think reasons are clear for the change even internally.

(2) Resale is absolutely not the first goal. The goal of the MP4 was to sell vehicles. No one cares about resale if you don't make enough money. Furthermore, its much more pertinent to the US market where no-one actually drives their cars, unlike the EU where 458's and MP4's both depreciate equally.

(3) Lets compare the MP4 to the Gallardo platform as a sales success - the Gallardo had the longest life-cycle of any exotic product - 10 years since introduction and sales would've been completely off the map had it not been for a late introduction into China.

 

Where the MP4 delivers above and beyond other 'upstart' entrants is in actual customer satisfaction (e.g. people who did buy the cars love them), and in dealer experiences.

who cares which one is faster? buy the one you like

 

Fully agreed, there will always be something faster.

 

Buy the one that makes you want to put a picture of it on the living room wall; makes you excited when driving it; and the sound should make you laugh out loud.

Staying on the subject of McLaren's sales performance, the best data I can find at the moment is that they sold 400 cars in 2011, and about 10% of that the previous year (in advance orders I assume). That amounts to sales of £69m and a net loss of £54m. However, this was using their originally limited production facilities - the dedicated factory line only opened towards the end of that year. I know they were planning to sell 1500 cars a year by now.

 

According to their 2012 accounts filing, they made £267m in turnover last year (assuming this is all car sales, that does extrapolate to around 1551), with a net loss of £12m.

Fully agreed, there will always be something faster.

 

Buy the one that makes you want to put a picture of it on the living room wall; makes you excited when driving it; and the sound should make you laugh out loud.

 

BINGO!!

You've clearly never worked at an exotic sports car company.

 

(1) Macca has had two bosses - Mike Flewitt and Anthony Sheriff. I don't think reasons are clear for the change even internally.

(2) Resale is absolutely not the first goal. The goal of the MP4 was to sell vehicles. No one cares about resale if you don't make enough money. Furthermore, its much more pertinent to the US market where no-one actually drives their cars, unlike the EU where 458's and MP4's both depreciate equally.

(3) Lets compare the MP4 to the Gallardo platform as a sales success - the Gallardo had the longest life-cycle of any exotic product - 10 years since introduction and sales would've been completely off the map had it not been for a late introduction into China.

 

Where the MP4 delivers above and beyond other 'upstart' entrants is in actual customer satisfaction (e.g. people who did buy the cars love them), and in dealer experiences.

You do realize resale directly affects sales, right? If your sales market is soft then poor resale makes used models the biggest competitor to new car sales, which drives down the price of new cars. Dealers begin competing against one another and the profit margins (if there are any left) are shaved across the board. All these things are interrelated and affect your stated goal of selling vehicles. Judging strictly by your observation that the only goal was to sell vehicles it appears that meeting that goal is getting harder, especially considering the number of new cars available.

 

What makes you think that owners in the EU drive their cars more than in the U.S.?

Staying on the subject of McLaren's sales performance, the best data I can find at the moment is that they sold 400 cars in 2011, and about 10% of that the previous year (in advance orders I assume). That amounts to sales of £69m and a net loss of £54m. However, this was using their originally limited production facilities - the dedicated factory line only opened towards the end of that year. I know they were planning to sell 1500 cars a year by now.

 

According to their 2012 accounts filing, they made £267m in turnover last year (assuming this is all car sales, that does extrapolate to around 1551), with a net loss of £12m.

 

 

It doesn't sell well and it resells even worse, not good for McLaren, clinical, dull looking car, boring to listen to, McLaren completely missed the point of an exotic which is in your face, PITA, loud and most of the time obnoxious, yes the MP4 is fast but so is the GTR for example, speed alone can not make up for all the other things which it is lacking, on top of that I've red of many issues which the car has, teething issue, expected with a new model I guess, it's a real shame because they had their chance, starting with a clean sheet is always a bonus, IMO they blew it, I can only hope they will learn from their failures and come back stronger.

 

Lambo with the Cabrera will cut their lunch even further, here, Lambo's marketing strategy is to price the new car below the MP4, if it happens to outperform the MP4, not that I care, Mclaren will have an even harder time selling their cars, not so long ago they had to shave $100k off the RRP just to move the new cars they had in stock, sales did not increase in spite of the sharp cut.

 

The exotic car market isn't easy to crack, decisions to purchases are not rationally made they are mostly emotion based, the item has to appeal to the senses of the buyer, vision, sound feel and let's not forget ego , it's a tricky sector and McLaren got it wrong, unfortunately for them.

 

You've clearly never worked at an exotic sports car company.

 

 

You clearly have never been on the board of directors of any company, certainly not one of this size.

 

The MP4 is a great car but as a product it has been a massive failure. They need a winner. I am rooting for them. Hopefully the P1 and P13 will be game changers.

 

In my opinion.. I dont care about the Aventador.. I certainly dont care about an Mp4... But the new G replacement.. BRING THAT ON!