The 2013 Obama Scandal omnibus thread- Benghazi, IRS, AP, EPA, Congressional cloak room

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/

 

There you go Fortis.

From a technical aspect, do they really have the capability of storing all the acquired data? if so that's quite amazing from a technical aspect, I'd like to read more on that if anyone can point me in the right direction.

 

Here's an article on the new facility in Utah. Supposedly it can store up to 5 Zettabytes of info (I think that's 10 to the 21st power), although who knows what it's actual capacity is.

 

New NSA facility

 

Edit: Ha, we linked the same article.

OK.... My best friend is a writer... And one of the subjects he writes extensively on is the NSA.... He writes fiction, but in order for that to work, he does EXTENSIVE research.... Sharp guy... Knows as much about the NSA as probably anybody who isn't in it... (although, Im never quite sure about that)...

 

 

So yesterday we spoke on the phone and I asked him, point blank, are we "past the tipping point? If tomorrow Obama says 'That's enough, They've gotten to big, Im realing them in', COULD HE?"

 

"Nope."

 

OK, Maybe Im not asking the right question...

 

 

"If CONGRESS, and obama decided to stop them, could they?"

 

"Make them stop what? You have to know what the what is, or they will just do the same thing another way."

 

"Forget all that technical crap.... COULD THE GOVERNMENT MAKE THEM STOP ALL SPYING ON US CITIZENS, IF it decided to?"

 

 

"No."

 

"So theyre a fourth branch of government unto themselves with no checks or balances?"

 

"Pretty much."

 

Valid points. The government has been doing this long before what most people think. When the government's powers and its citizens' privacies are violated without according due process, I see no problem in being called out for it, especially when it's for personal gain like what the Obama administration is doing. It's too bad we'll probably never see justice in any of these scandals.

 

I think there are more issues to come to light on this. It is a shit storm now but bigger things are to come.

Country after country are falling over themselves now to distance their security offices and data collation centres from this.

Everyone monitors our activity these days no matter if we step out of the door or flip our laptop. Is it right? No.

However it is a fact of light and every large corp is compelled to mine information on our activities in order for them to remain competitive in their market place. Yes the government are wrong to do it but they are only using information that these companies are compiling anyway and that seems to be an element that is being shrugged off.

 

However building analysis (and yes I have experience in this field albeit on a much more local level) is a problematic arena. You have lots of raw data and are told go away and find out info on XYZ and so you want to build as full picture as you can. You have to ensure that you have explored every avenue you can with all the permutations in order to be unequivocally unshakably positively sure that you have the correct outcome from the information. I do not trust my mobile phone provider to provide me with the correct billing info let alone them be trusted to hand over the right yet carefully selective information to a government security bureau. So I get why the likes of Prism are out there in operation.

 

I think the proof of the pudding comes down to how successful Prism has actually been. We will never know the success rate of activities stopped as result of info gained from its performance. If we are to look at the Boston Bombing or any other recent "terror" related incident involving foreign nationals, what info has been collated prior to those incidents and when. Sadly we will never know.

Here's an article on the new facility in Utah. Supposedly it can store up to 5 Zettabytes of info (I think that's 10 to the 21st power), although who knows what it's actual capacity is.

 

New NSA facility

 

Edit: Ha, we linked the same article.

Drove past it yesterday on the way to a meeting in Provo...it's pretty fcuking giant from the across the lake. They were working on it and could see a lot of dirt being blown around.

They really have it built into the hill side well.. I'm sure there's so much underground that's not disclosed.

So what incentives (carrot or stick) were offered to the corporations for their co-operation in this whole thing? i.e. did the NSA approach Google and say, we are going to mine your data whether you like it or not....dont tell anyone and we can make sure you have a head up on XYZ....or Apple, we are going to take access to your "cloud" dont say shit and we can make sure federal courts are at your disposal...I mean, I'd love to say that its all bullshit conspiracy crap, but it starting to seem like all bets are off.

 

And about the "doomsday" folks waiting for the government to "turn" on the citizenry...looks like this shit is already happening...i mean at what point does the public say, "you shall not pass!" or has it been so subtle this whole time that not only has Balrog passed...he's already got his finger up your ass.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/

 

There you go Fortis.

 

Thank you, I will read later when I get home.

So what incentives (carrot or stick) were offered to the corporations for their co-operation in this whole thing? i.e. did the NSA approach Google and say, we are going to mine your data whether you like it or not....dont tell anyone and we can make sure you have a head up on XYZ....or Apple, we are going to take access to your "cloud" dont say shit and we can make sure federal courts are at your disposal...I mean, I'd love to say that its all bullshit conspiracy crap, but it starting to seem like all bets are off.

 

And about the "doomsday" folks waiting for the government to "turn" on the citizenry...looks like this shit is already happening...i mean at what point does the public say, "you shall not pass!" or has it been so subtle this whole time that not only has Balrog passed...he's already got his finger up your ass.

 

Under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), federal agencies get court orders for the physical and electronic surveillance of the companies of their choosing and those companies have to abide by a government nondisclosure obligation.

A stunt to jam up the National Security Agency’s servers got its start in the offices of two BuzzFeed employees.

 

Chris Baker and Mike Lacher, creative directors at the news site, say they hope millions of people will send a seemingly mundane email about a bad job and travel plans to their friends at exactly 7 p.m. on Wednesday. The catch: the script, which they wrote together, is filled with words that could pique the NSA’s interest – including “bomb,” “ricin,” “radicalized,” “true believers,” and “flight school.”

 

Their project, with the unsubtle name “Troll the NSA,” has had 5,000 visits since it launched on Sunday, says Baker, with hundreds more visiting “every minute.”

 

Baker says the idea was spawned over a drink at a Washington, D.C., bar with his father, Richard Baker. They were chatting about the NSA scandals when his dad had an idea: “Wouldn’t it be funny if we could overload the NSA’s monitoring systems and just said the word ‘bomb’ over and over and over again?”

 

“I thought it was so funny I couldn’t stop laughing,” the younger Baker told The Daily Beast.

 

A spokeswoman for BuzzFeed said there is no conflict of interest since Baker and Lacher are “noneditorial employees” who did this on their own time. “A reporter on our news team actually discovered it this morning, started to report on how the site came to be, but then decided the backstory was actually too boring to merit coverage,” said spokeswoman Ashley McCollum.

 

“Troll the NSA” asks citizens to call the NSA’s bluff: “If millions of us, at the exact same time, call or email someone with our keywords-of-terror-filled script, we can give our nation’s impressive surveillance apparatus the kind of test it deserves. They say they don’t listen to the content of our messages. Why not test it out? It’ll be fun,” the site asks.

 

Will it work? Hard to say, but here’s an outtake from the letter: “... I wish I could overthrow my boss. It’s like this oppressive regime where only true believers in his management techniques will stay around,” the email reads—emphasis on the keywords is theirs. Then: “I’m thinking of visiting all the most famous suspension bridges in the United States.”

Not surprisingly, the Internet is answering the call. “Want some fun? Let’s jam up the NSA’s scanners,” one Twitter user wrote. “I’m so in,” wrote another. Within a few hours of Baker tweeting it out, several of BuzzFeed’s own staffers followed suit: “Kinda miffed that http://trollthensa.com/ stole the exact email I was going to send to a friend of mine about me starting flight school,” tweeted BuzzFeed writer Ryan Broderick.

 

(Troll the NSA isn’t the only tongue-in-cheek Internet meme to poke fun at the NSA, by the way. Obama Is Checking Your Email, a new Tumblr, shows pictures of the president peering at laptops and scrolling through his BlackBerry.)

 

Others say the idea is neither funny nor effective. “Idiots,” one person wrote on Twitter. “I sincerely want to persuade people that this is not going to solve anything,” another user wrote, “please don’t do it.”

 

Baker says he’s not exactly expecting to crash the NSA’s servers—just to create a little more noise about surveillance.

 

“It would be amazing if we actually did screw with their systems a little bit,” he says, “but the ultimate goal is that the site itself will get enough attention ... that NSA becomes aware of it on some level and gives them a moment to reflect on their duties.”

 

He also hopes his fellow millennials—Baker just turned 30—will realize federal phone and email records are something they should be paying attention to.

 

“We’re constantly broadcasting ourselves on Facebook, Twitter, and Foursquare,” he says. “We get carried away with ourselves on these fun little websites. This is a wake-up call. It snaps us out of our social media haze.”

 

Then, like a true BuzzFeeder acolyte, he added: “This story will blow over as soon as the Kardashians have a new kid.”

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013...ll-the-nsa.html

 

http://trollthensa.com/

I know I'm in the minority here but having worked in the intelligence world with access to stuff that even TS cleared people don't have access to, there is plenty out there that the average citizen doesn't need to know. I hope this guy in Hong Kong is caught and charged to the fullest extent.

I know I'm in the minority here but having worked in the intelligence world with access to stuff that even TS cleared people don't have access to, there is plenty out there that the average citizen doesn't need to know. I hope this guy in Hong Kong is caught and charged to the fullest extent.

 

 

And theres plenty of stuff the government doesnt need to know as well....

I know I'm in the minority here but having worked in the intelligence world with access to stuff that even TS cleared people don't have access to, there is plenty out there that the average citizen doesn't need to know. I hope this guy in Hong Kong is caught and charged to the fullest extent.

 

 

I agree on some level. But spying on the citizenry is not one of them. But what has he revealed that would warrant prosecution? Unlike Brad Manning who aided the enemy.

I know I'm in the minority here but having worked in the intelligence world with access to stuff that even TS cleared people don't have access to, there is plenty out there that the average citizen doesn't need to know. I hope this guy in Hong Kong is caught and charged to the fullest extent.

He is a true patriot like Ben Franklin, George Washington, John Hancock and the others. He did his duty....his civic duty. The government rules at the behest of its citizens and it was clearly exceeding its lawful reach.

 

He told us. Every single freedom loving person that puts our freedom above our security owes him a debt of gratitude.

He is a true patriot like Ben Franklin, George Washington, John Hancock and the others. He did his duty....his civic duty. The government rules at the behest of its citizens and it was clearly exceeding its lawful reach.

 

He told us. Every single freedom loving person that puts our freedom above our security owes him a debt of gratitude.

 

I think I need to quit watching the news.

I will just have to agree to disagree. What is different today compared to before this news coming out other than not knowing the govt had access to that info? The answer is nothing. If you aren't doing anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about is my mindset. When you sign up to work in the classified world you don't sign a document that says "yeah I agree to keep all this info secret Unless I don't agree with it". You are pledging to keep certain info secret no matter what.

The mindset I'm seeing here would be like saying there is nothing wrong with a soldier going AWOL because it is against his beliefs. And I can't imagine that is a general consensus.

Also, say a massive terrorist plot is found preventing something on a 9/11 scale because of this Intel method...you guys are honestly going to tell me you would rather thousands of people die so that non one can know who you're calling or where you're looking on the internet?

IF he had done his duty and kept info guarded that is supposed to be guarded then none of this would be in the news, no one would be having these discussions.

 

I can respect your guys' opinions though. And as RD mentioned previously, no matter what is announced publicly as a result from this (I.e. if they say we will get rid of that data and cease this tracking) that is not actually going to happen.

I still love you guys though lol

If you aren't doing anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about is my mindset.

 

Thats a slippery slope argument. How many terrorist plans and plots have been defeated thanks to PRISM? How did Boston Marathon happened when the kid was on FB/Skype all the time? That argument doesn't cut it, and that's coming from someone that has worked in the defense industry with clearance also.

 

Chip do you live in a box and only walk from your box down a 20ft armored hallway to your work box and back? Do you do this because terrorist may get you and others one day? You can't tell me that you would pass up said box just because it is not as great as your house, and your Diablo! That's kind of what your argument sounds like.

 

Best

I have no idea what you are trying to say in the second paragraph there. I live a normal life just like you guys, these types of things just don't bother me. I am cognizant of my surroundings all the time. But I don't walk around worrying about terrorist attacks every moment if that's what you mean.

I don't mean to say that the program will be guaranteed to catch everyone. Just my personal opinion is that I don't mind the govt having that data somewhere.

 

Not sure how my house or car could at all be made relative to the argument.

Chipster...you couldnt be more wrong. Your attitude towards it is extremly dangerous. You are willing to give up freedoms for security. Nothing scarier.

 

Sure he signed up to work with classified documents and responsabilities come with it. At any time he could have walked away mouth shut if they conflicted with his beliefs. However what the government is doing is wrong and his duty was to expose it. This is against citizens of the US and there is no gray area.

 

Boston, pearl harbor, 9-11...doesnt matter and we don't get to pick and choose. Freedom or secuirty. This isn't breaking the law...its breaking the constitution.

 

Still love you buddy but you are wrong on every level.

I will just have to agree to disagree. What is different today compared to before this news coming out other than not knowing the govt had access to that info? The answer is nothing. If you aren't doing anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about is my mindset. When you sign up to work in the classified world you don't sign a document that says "yeah I agree to keep all this info secret Unless I don't agree with it". You are pledging to keep certain info secret no matter what.

The mindset I'm seeing here would be like saying there is nothing wrong with a soldier going AWOL because it is against his beliefs. And I can't imagine that is a general consensus.

Also, say a massive terrorist plot is found preventing something on a 9/11 scale because of this Intel method...you guys are honestly going to tell me you would rather thousands of people die so that non one can know who you're calling or where you're looking on the internet?

IF he had done his duty and kept info guarded that is supposed to be guarded then none of this would be in the news, no one would be having these discussions.

 

I can respect your guys' opinions though. And as RD mentioned previously, no matter what is announced publicly as a result from this (I.e. if they say we will get rid of that data and cease this tracking) that is not actually going to happen.

I have absolutely no problem with secret intel being gathered to prevent large scale terrorist attacks.

I have every problem in the world with how it's gathered if its done in contradiction to the 4th amendment and you're gathering unchecked personal information on hundreds of millions of Americans just for the sake of having their info.

Dare I say the death of hundreds or even thousands of people because of missed intel because one person was missed because hundreds of millions privacy wasn't invaded... I think the loss of personal freedom, personal conversation and privacy for generations to come is far more important.

Unlike manning the info was given about a project that was invading Americans trust and personal privacy., manning exposed names, moles and agents putting their lives at risk. Snowden did not.

I hope personally that they bring Snowden back and attempt to try him because that will be the one thing that will get me out of my home and marching with others.

Are soldiers not given the order to directly disobey orders if they feel they are morally wrong or in direct violation of the constitution? How then is what Snowden did any different?

 

Ps. Chip. Text me some TS government secrets. Ill swap you naked pictures of women

Ha!

Hannibal, easy on the "wrong" comments. It is my opinion and I'm allowed to voice my own views, whether you think it is wrong or not is your opinion and I respect that. To agree with some of what Rob is saying, I should clarify that I'm ok with the gov't having access to that data for purposes of National Security and only that. If I send someone an email that I won $2000 gambling and then the next year the IRS contacts me and says, hey how come you didn't claim this then sure I will agree with you guys that is out of bounds.

 

I'm sure a lot of my opinion is based on my job experience and what i'm already used to. For example, if you work in a secure facility you are blatantly told that anything on your person is subject to seizure and search.

 

Rob, I am working on a 3some. If that pans out, I will send you pics haha. I have no secrets to share... But really I've been out of that game for few years. I am in the generic field of supporting the warfighter now.

 

Generally I don't comment on these types of things, not because I don't have an opinion but because I am just very, very not into politics in any sense. I admire that you guys are passionate about these things though! My last post for this thread so you guys can bash all you want lol.

Everybody back off chip.

 

 

 

My only complaint is with the notion that only criminals or people with "something to hide" desire privacy. That's a false dichotomy and is exclusively used to destroy freedom and privacy through stiggmatizing those who value their rights.

I have absolutely no problem with secret intel being gathered to prevent large scale terrorist attacks.

I have every problem in the world with how it's gathered if its done in contradiction to th 4th amendment and you're gathering unchecked personal information on hundreds of millions of Americans just for the sake of having their info.

Dare I say the death of hundreds or even thousands of people because of missed intel because one person was missed because hundreds of millions privacy wasn't invaded... I think the loss of personal freedom, personal conversation and privacy for generations to come is far more important.

Unlike manning the info was given about a project that was invading Americans trust and personal privacy., manning exposed names, moles and agents putting their lives at risk. Snowden did not.

I hope personally that they bring Snowden back and attempt to try him because that will be the one thing that will get me out of my home and marching with others.

Are soldiers not given the order to directly disobey orders if they feel they are morally wrong or in direct violation of the constitution? How then is what Snowden did any different?

 

It's also a violation of the Fifth Amendment.

 

There's also the inherent problem of inter-government sharing of this information. In my opinion, this same information could be and might've been used in the IRS' targeting of conservative groups and individuals (maybe that's extreme, but considering the criminal offenses this administration has committed, I wouldn't be surprised). Rather than the government seek out information on an individual suspect or criminal, now they have access to everyone's information that could incriminate or improperly label someone as a criminal or terrorist. If we start granting the government overbearing powers, they could use it to incriminate, prosecute, or even kill an American citizen, without regard of the First, Fourth, and Fifth Amendments, for an unlawful crime or political gain. If this continues, we could turn into what Russia is today.