Tesla...

Isn't the instantly available high torque the characteristic of any electric motor and thus the selling point of an electric vehicle? Perhaps I am spoiled by all the rides on the Shinkansen/bullet trains (not as dramatic as the car of course) but I have yet to warm up for the Tesla.

 

Test-drove one about 10 months ago. Nice but not for that price. Hated the 2 iPad-like centre console and I honestly think the car is not that well-built.

0 - 60 was okay - nothing earthshaking...but 40 to 90 was QUICK! Incredibly quick!

 

When I was driving (the Lambo) home from Boston a guy in a Tesla pulled up beside me - smiled/waived - and then pulled away from me like I was standing still (I was probably doing 80) Traffic was heavy enough that I didn't want to "play". He was weaving in / out and passing people on the right, and driving like a jerk so I didn't want to associate with him - but it was my first interaction with a Tesla showing me what they're made of.

 

My test drive confirmed it. They are quick - and once they're moving - the acceleration and pull was amazing (and fun). I can see why Scotty says it's easier to get up to speed and merge safely.

 

Very cool. The Tesla driver you encountered makes me think we'll start hearing about Tesla crashes soon.

Isn't the instantly available high torque the characteristic of any electric motor and thus the selling point of an electric vehicle? Perhaps I am spoiled by all the rides on the Shinkansen/bullet trains (not as dramatic as the car of course) but I have yet to warm up for the Tesla.

 

Test-drove one about 10 months ago. Nice but not for that price. Hated the 2 iPad-like centre console and I honestly think the car is not that well-built.

 

High torque is a nice side luxury, but IMO the selling points of an electric vehicle are things such as the following:

 

1) Mechanical simplicity---no engine or transmission with a bunch of moving parts that need lubrication and fluids and maintenance and that could end up breaking on you and costing an arm-and-a-leg

 

2) Can charge up from home

 

3) Don't directly pollute (indirectly pollute from coal and oil-fired power plants, but renewable energy power plants will hopefully eventually eliminate this, also home solar panel technology could make your electric vehicle 100% emissions-free)

I would say this is bullshit. I have several friends in Minnesota with Teslas and they rave about the winter driving. They are awesome in the snow, but AWD is coming soon for the belts and suspenders type people. Cold will take away some if your range but the battery has a heater to minimize this. It's a formula for battery loss from cold or the heating of it, but should never be more than a 10% drop in Range.

 

 

I promise that it's not bullshit. I can find out more details but he has no reason to lie. He LOVES his Tesla.

Isn't the instantly available high torque the characteristic of any electric motor and thus the selling point of an electric vehicle? Perhaps I am spoiled by all the rides on the Shinkansen/bullet trains (not as dramatic as the car of course) but I have yet to warm up for the Tesla.

 

Test-drove one about 10 months ago. Nice but not for that price. Hated the 2 iPad-like centre console and I honestly think the car is not that well-built.

 

My first experience with the electric motor was in a Toyota Highlander V6, and even that was enough to sell me on the potential.

 

With the Tesla, the biggest appeal is that it's an electric geared for some real performance whereas the rest we haven't seen the potential yet.

 

I kinda like seeing electric/gas electrical/diesel hybrids for luxury sedans going forward.

There is one thing that I am happy about, in my life time the internal combustion engine will still be around and I won't be forced to drive a washing machine around

 

I think Tesla is pretty cool and I like the direction they are taking but at $200k here no thanks.

I love my ICE (internal combustion engine) cars, but there is only so much OIL left on this planet. As supplies dwindle you will be at the mercy of the people who harvest this product and they will charge whatever they want. If you can have the supplies last longer, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out supply and demand, will not make the price rise as fast. Will this affect us in our lifetime? No, but it will affect our children's life and future generations. Do we want to be the ones that say "we changed the world"? Or do we want to be the ones who use up every resource and pollute the planet for the next generation to solve. I can deal with the problems that are associated with a electric car, as long as I can have my ICE car for playtime. Are electric cars answer? Maybe not. But it's a good start.

 

 

 

https://vimeo.com/70643320

How does tesla protect against the severly low temperatures? Range varies widely with ambient temps. A family friend who loves his model S and is a retired CEO of a fortune 500 company lives in Minnesota. Apparently during the winter his range suffered greatly and at one point the car just wouldn't charge due to the severe cold.

 

 

I would say this is bullshit. I have several friends in Minnesota with Teslas and they rave about the winter driving. They are awesome in the snow, but AWD is coming soon for the belts and suspenders type people. Cold will take away some if your range but the battery has a heater to minimize this. It's a formula for battery loss from cold or the heating of it, but should never be more than a 10% drop in Range.

 

Living in Norway I can tell you a thing or two about Teslas in the cold...

The charging part is/was not a problem with the car, but the original charging cable. Some simply stopped working when they got too cold, and had to be heated up to work. Personally the first thing I did was buy a third party charging cable due to several design issues with the original one (it doesn't fit in public charging stations...), and I never had any issues even down to -30C (-22F).

 

Other than that the range obviously suffers a bit, but I still got 200 miles out of one charge in very cold weather with 2 inches of wet salty snow on the road.

I love my ICE (internal combustion engine) cars, but there is only so much OIL left on this planet. As supplies dwindle you will be at the mercy of the people who harvest this product and they will charge whatever they want. If you can have the supplies last longer, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out supply and demand, will not make the price rise as fast. Will this affect us in our lifetime? No, but it will affect our children's life and future generations. Do we want to be the ones that say "we changed the world"? Or do we want to be the ones who use up every resource and pollute the planet for the next generation to solve. I can deal with the problems that are associated with a electric car, as long as I can have my ICE car for playtime. Are electric cars answer? Maybe not. But it's a good start.

 

 

 

https://vimeo.com/70643320

 

Electric car for a daily-driver I'd prefer if they can get the range better and the price lower. Daily-driver, you don't want mechanical complications or anything like that. But for fun vehicles, where you like to mess with the mechanics and here the roar of the engine and exhaust and all of that, ICE vehicles are more fun.

 

Automakers say that they believe they can improve the fuel-efficiency of ICE engines by another 40% or so, but it will need more powerful computer technology for the research involved.

Electric car for a daily-driver I'd prefer if they can get the range better and the price lower. Daily-driver, you don't want mechanical complications or anything like that. But for fun vehicles, where you like to mess with the mechanics and here the roar of the engine and exhaust and all of that, ICE vehicles are more fun.

 

Automakers say that they believe they can improve the fuel-efficiency of ICE engines by another 40% or so, but it will need more powerful computer technology for the research involved.

 

Lower prices are coming.....I've seen a couple fairly new used S models well below sticker all loaded up.

Yes, lower-priced electric cars are coming. By the end of this year Tesla will launch the model X. It's already rumored to be $10,000 less than the Model S. The third-generation or economy model should be launching by the end of 2015 with a price tag around $35,000. With Tesla opening up all their patents for anybody to use I think you're going to see all the technology prices drop as well as availability of charging stations will grow dramatically.

I love my ICE (internal combustion engine) cars, but there is only so much OIL left on this planet.

https://vimeo.com/70643320

 

And how do you think a vast majority of the electricity that powers your Tesla is made? That's right, OIL.

 

True, you can make electricity from renewable sources like solar, hydropower, wind power, etc., but you could also turn that electricity into hydrogen and burn it in an ICE or convert it back into electricity in a fuel cell.

 

But my issue is not with electric motors and electric cars, but with batteries. Batteries have been around for over 100 years and they are still an awful way to store energy. They are heavy, inefficient, unreliable and limited in capacity. The idea that someone is going to suddenly invent some kind of super battery is totally unfounded, especially since it is far from a new technology.

 

 

true, but making electricity at a plant to charge the electric car is much more efficient than burning gas in your car... obviously there have been major advances in battery technology which is why the electric car revolution is running strong...

 

 

 

 

And how do you think a vast majority of the electricity that powers your Tesla is made? That's right, OIL.

 

True, you can make electricity from renewable sources like solar, hydropower, wind power, etc., but you could also turn that electricity into hydrogen and burn it in an ICE or convert it back into electricity in a fuel cell.

 

But my issue is not with electric motors and electric cars, but with batteries. Batteries have been around for over 100 years and they are still an awful way to store energy. They are heavy, inefficient, unreliable and limited in capacity. The idea that someone is going to suddenly invent some kind of super battery is totally unfounded, especially since it is far from a new technology.

You can go on the Tesla website and see your state and how it gets it's electricity. The more west you go, the more solar and hydro. But Coal is the major product not oil. All technologies need to improve and batteries are not the end all. Just a start in a direction of continuous change. To think otherwise would be like thinking CD's for music was the end all. We now use them for beverage coasters...... Even iPods are old school. Batteries may never be the future, but it is a pretty cool start in moving another direction. Oil will not get cheaper in the future. I am making a ton of money in the market on companies that move it around and pipelines. Electricity comes right to your house, it will crush that business overnight if it did become the norm. Lots to think about. Right now I laugh every mile I put on my car, since I get 250+ miles for $7.50 of electricity. I save $500 a month in not buying fuel and or getting oil changes. I fricking hate oil changes. What's next? Who knows, but it sounds fun.

Damnit, Scotty. Now I have to go test drive a Tesla!

Damnit, Scotty. Now I have to go test drive a Tesla!

 

Lol, yes I highly suggest you do testdrive one. Little tougher in Texas as your state seemed disinterested in the direct to consumer sales approach. But should Texas get the battery gigafactory, that will certainly change. Teslas are not for everyone, but I sure enjoy mine as a daily driver. Any technology comes with a hassle factor. You have to be willing to deal with those issues. I love the superchargers, they have them at the mall near my home. I go twice a week and plug in for free while my wife and I have a drink at the local watering hole. It takes about 20-25 minutes to charge my car fully. But I equally love the raw power and sound of my Aventador.

true, but making electricity at a plant to charge the electric car is much more efficient than burning gas in your car... obviously there have been major advances in battery technology which is why the electric car revolution is running strong...

 

For the record, I also believe electric cars are the future, but I believe the current electric car "revolution" is as much good marketing and a desirable product from Tesla, than it is an actual revolution. Right now it is very cool to be green, and what better way to show your hipness than to drive an electric car. Not saying electric cars are a fad, but the perceived revolution is sort of a fad.

 

The problem is, the Tesla is not a practical alternative to the typical gas burning automobile for the masses. They are selling now because there is a niche for people who can afford them and want to be on the cutting edge or want to show their green-ness. But let's face it, if there were an affordable Tesla for the masses, I don't think it would do well because the average person that can only afford one car needs his car to do everything reasonably well. And having to stop for 25-30 minutes to "fill up" simply doesn't work in the real world. Or it it would get old real fast. Which is why Tesla was (or is still) trying to implement quick change battery systems in the car. Again, the battery is the weak link, and Tesla's exploration of this option is sort of proof of that. Also, free electricity at supercharging stations to charge your car is a great feature, but how long will Tesla continue to subsidize electricity for their customers, especially on more affordable models?

 

Finally, yes, currently power generated at a power plant is done so at greater thermal efficiencies than in a gasoline powered automobile engine, but the gap is not as great as you think and closing. A coal or oil fired power plant typically has a thermal efficiency in the range of 35% or so; I believe it is somewhat higher for natural gas and obviously combined cycle power plants that recycle the waste heat to make steam are closer to 55%. But then you have to factor in the losses that occur in the transmission of that power over long runs of power line, and the efficiency at the outlet is lower. Obviously, renewable sources are a home-run for power generation, but again, I am not critiquing the use of electric cars, but rather the use of batteries to store energy.

 

Modern automotive diesel engines can have a thermal efficiency of 40% or even more, so we aren't talking about huge, if any difference.

TG - In reality how often do you think the average person travels over 250 miles in one trip, or one day?

 

I drive quite a bit and it would be fine for me 95% of the time. If they got the range up into the 400 mile mark that would be a game changer. The big downside I see is people who want to keep the car for 10+ years. The ultimate lifespan of batteries is the big unknown and the replacement cost has to be astronomical, along with the environmental effects and costs of dealing with the old batteries.

TG - In reality how often do you think the average person travels over 250 miles in one trip, or one day?

 

I drive quite a bit and it would be fine for me 95% of the time. If they got the range up into the 400 mile mark that would be a game changer. The big downside I see is people who want to keep the car for 10+ years. The ultimate lifespan of batteries is the big unknown and the replacement cost has to be astronomical, along with the environmental effects and costs of dealing with the old batteries.

 

 

Probably not very often...but the one time someone has to make a longer trip for whatever reason and they can't get to the nearest supercharging station or don't feel like having a latte for 30 minutes while their car charges up, I bet you they'll be pretty pissed off.

 

I had a diesel pickup truck once that would freeze the fuel in the lines after driving it for a few minutes in temperatures below 20 degrees F. I got stranded three minutes from my house in the freezing cold. In NYC it only gets down below 20 a few days out of the year, but it only had to happen to me once for me to realize I didn't want the truck anymore.

Model X is due out next year which will be nice but the game changer is the 200+ mile range midsize sedan starting at $35k in 3 years. I can't believe how many of these guys love to customize them. They are a great platform to tweak!

I agree.. with electric cars. There is no shortage of power generation in the US, there is a shortage of distribution..all these green energy mandates are driving up the cost of power delivered to your home by forcing power companies to buy so called "green energy" at much higher costs than natural gas, coal, hydro etc. That is not going to stop anytime soon under this administration.

Mitigation with solar on your home..or an electric car with the tax credits is the best way to go...id rather put gas money and the gas taxes into my vehicle then pay at the pump.

Panasonic and Tesla have been moving forward with battery technology with great improvements...i see that technology moving faster and better in the future...just my 2c

 

You can go on the Tesla website and see your state and how it gets it's electricity. The more west you go, the more solar and hydro. But Coal is the major product not oil. All technologies need to improve and batteries are not the end all. Just a start in a direction of continuous change. To think otherwise would be like thinking CD's for music was the end all. We now use them for beverage coasters...... Even iPods are old school. Batteries may never be the future, but it is a pretty cool start in moving another direction. Oil will not get cheaper in the future. I am making a ton of money in the market on companies that move it around and pipelines. Electricity comes right to your house, it will crush that business overnight if it did become the norm. Lots to think about. Right now I laugh every mile I put on my car, since I get 250+ miles for $7.50 of electricity. I save $500 a month in not buying fuel and or getting oil changes. I fricking hate oil changes. What's next? Who knows, but it sounds fun.

 

Probably not very often...but the one time someone has to make a longer trip for whatever reason and they can't get to the nearest supercharging station or don't feel like having a latte for 30 minutes while their car charges up, I bet you they'll be pretty pissed off.

 

I had a diesel pickup truck once that would freeze the fuel in the lines after driving it for a few minutes in temperatures below 20 degrees F. I got stranded three minutes from my house in the freezing cold. In NYC it only gets down below 20 a few days out of the year, but it only had to happen to me once for me to realize I didn't want the truck anymore.

 

Or, the once in a blue moon you need to make a 500 mile trip you just rent something? The same way people rent trucks that need them once a year, etc.

 

Bummer about your truck, most modern diesels don't have any issues even in sub 0 temps, that I can see being a huge pain in the ass.

 

 

Wiggs: What are you guys modding on them?

Or, the once in a blue moon you need to make a 500 mile trip you just rent something? The same way people rent trucks that need them once a year, etc.

 

Bummer about your truck, most modern diesels don't have any issues even in sub 0 temps, that I can see being a huge pain in the ass.

 

 

Wiggs: What are you guys modding on them?

We do everything from custom interiors, lots of audio upgrades, wheels, carbon fiber trim pieces, and IF someone is willing to void warranty, we can tune the motors for either more power or more range.

I am not critiquing the use of electric cars, but rather the use of batteries to store energy.

 

What other way is there to store energy for an electric car though?

We do everything from custom interiors, lots of audio upgrades, wheels, carbon fiber trim pieces, and IF someone is willing to void warranty, we can tune the motors for either more power or more range.

 

D.Wiggs, you in the auto customizing business? When you say about increase the range, does this mean decreasing how powerful the motor is?