Diablo 6.0 Twin Turbo Build

Looks great Limey! Might be the only exhaust possibly as short (or even shorter) than mine!!!

That exhaust is something else! Hahaha LOVE IT.

Damn that looks good.

 

Doesn't it just!

 

From my understanding, UGR, Heffner etc still keep the stock ECUs and they piggy back the Motec etc. So the stock ECU still manage all the major functions, but the piggy back manages the boost, timing, fuel etc. Was there a reason you didnt do this? For newer cars such my LP640 when you yank out the stock ECU will other electronics such as traction control, ABS, A/C etc will function or all have to be reprogrammed thru the new stand alone?

All those other functions are controlled by the gfa.

 

Stand alone EcU is so much better than piggy back. Better control, no switching control, etc.

All those other functions are controlled by the gfa.

 

Stand alone EcU is so much better than piggy back. Better control, no switching control, etc.

 

 

Thanks for the explanation. So do Motec and other stand alones have capability and plug n play straight to the GFA for the LP640? I was just wondering they dont and hence why everyone piggy backs them.

Syvecs is working on a plug and play kit for some of the Lamborghini's now. They will change the future of Turboing Lambos in the future for the end user in my opinion.

 

Tuners will always be needed to make everything work together BUT for the end user or and availability, plug and play options are better.

Thanks for the comments, I felt that setup make a big FU statement. On the home stretch now, IC up next and then the biggest issue to face is the throttle body. Currently oval style and no way to secure clamps to hold anything over 6 psi, as experienced last time round. Just not enough meat for the clamps to bolt onto, may have to weld onto them, which actually is the only section of the turbo kit that is a permanent modification.

 

Still deciding on how to best tackle the round to oval issue, suggestions welcome!

Look into LT1 and Syclone/Typhoon modifications, they have oval throttle bodies and massive aftermarket support for boosted applications. Off the top of my head, CNC an adapter plate, then run a big, round throttle body.

Thanks for the explanation. So do Motec and other stand alones have capability and plug n play straight to the GFA for the LP640? I was just wondering they dont and hence why everyone piggy backs them.

There are two engine ECU's (one runs each bank) and the GFA runs the rest of the car's electronics.

 

Motec is a piggy back tuning computer that overrides the ECU after a certain RPM. The other option retaining the factory ECU is re-programming the factory ECU's with air/fuel/timing maps, unfortunately there are no custom tunable options for Lambo (that I know of). Stand alone ECU replaces the factory ECU's and has very detailed programming to allow a wide spectrum of specific tuning.

Look into LT1 and Syclone/Typhoon modifications, they have oval throttle bodies and massive aftermarket support for boosted applications. Off the top of my head, CNC an adapter plate, then run a big, round throttle body.

 

I'm with you, if you plan any serious boost then just put a normal round TB on it and be done.

 

But even the Gen III Viper guys have oval TB's and run plenty of boost with no issues. Silicone couplers and T-Bolt clamps go a long way.

This is a great looking project. I can't wait to see it running.

I agree, this is an awesome build. I can't wait to see and HEAR it running.

Extremely impressive.

 

What are you doing for fuel and timing management?

Extremely impressive.

 

What are you doing for fuel and timing management?

 

A complete new custom ECU Setup, see earlier posts for pictures and descriptions.

Just an added note to the standalone vs piggy-back. There is a local guy who is on his 3rd engine from the Heffner kit. I could go into great detail, but I will try and keep it simple. The piggy back ecu's try to trick the factory ecu's into thinking one thing is happening in order to make the factory ECU add more fuel, pull timing etc.. Well, VAG systems are highly intelligent and figure out that something is wrong when the knock count starts to get out of range or the cam phase sensor isn't matching the crank phase sensor or the Intake air temp is outside of parameter when compared to the outside air temperature sensor for the Body Control Module.. etc.. etc.. etc..

 

With a high quality stand alone, you can send the necessary can-bus information to the BCM to make the car think it still has factory ECU's. And, with the Diablo, the GFA is actually the source of a lot of the problems with the factory ECU's.. The GFA monitors EGT and Misfire sensors that the factory ECU does not. So, it sends a write command to the factory ECU (just like a piggy back). Now, this causes additional problems. If you have mild mis-fires, it sends signals to change fueling. This means that the computers ability to monitor itself in closed loop with O2 sensors is all but completely eliminated. So, what happens next? Bank 1 or bank 2 too rich/lean code. Now, if you have misfires, you will clog up a catalytic.. VERY FAST. This will result in a cat that will cause massive back pressure.. resulting in more misfires and more fuel. The loop continues until the CAT explodes.. Now.. guess what happens next.. the EGT sensor detects that the cat isn't getting hot (because there isn't one anymore) and the GFA tells the ECU to add EVEN MORE FUEL. So.. Diablo owners are actually quite familiar with what a Piggy Back system can do..

sorry.. double posted

Just an added note to the standalone vs piggy-back. There is a local guy who is on his 3rd engine from the Heffner kit. I could go into great detail, but I will try and keep it simple. The piggy back ecu's try to trick the factory ecu's into thinking one thing is happening in order to make the factory ECU add more fuel, pull timing etc.. Well, VAG systems are highly intelligent and figure out that something is wrong when the knock count starts to get out of range or the cam phase sensor isn't matching the crank phase sensor or the Intake air temp is outside of parameter when compared to the outside air temperature sensor for the Body Control Module.. etc.. etc.. etc..

 

With a high quality stand alone, you can send the necessary can-bus information to the BCM to make the car think it still has factory ECU's. And, with the Diablo, the GFA is actually the source of a lot of the problems with the factory ECU's.. The GFA monitors EGT and Misfire sensors that the factory ECU does not. So, it sends a write command to the factory ECU (just like a piggy back). Now, this causes additional problems. If you have mild mis-fires, it sends signals to change fueling. This means that the computers ability to monitor itself in closed loop with O2 sensors is all but completely eliminated. So, what happens next? Bank 1 or bank 2 too rich/lean code. Now, if you have misfires, you will clog up a catalytic.. VERY FAST. This will result in a cat that will cause massive back pressure.. resulting in more misfires and more fuel. The loop continues until the CAT explodes.. Now.. guess what happens next.. the EGT sensor detects that the cat isn't getting hot (because there isn't one anymore) and the GFA tells the ECU to add EVEN MORE FUEL. So.. Diablo owners are actually quite familiar with what a Piggy Back system can do..

 

Damn,

 

You need a job?

Thanks Limey. I am always here to help if anybody asks. I am currently only working on my own vehicles at the moment. I will post my build on my diablo soon though.

Thanks Limey. I am always here to help if anybody asks. I am currently only working on my own vehicles at the moment. I will post my build on my diablo soon though.

 

Please do! I love DIY jobs.

Just an added note to the standalone vs piggy-back. There is a local guy who is on his 3rd engine from the Heffner kit. I could go into great detail, but I will try and keep it simple. The piggy back ecu's try to trick the factory ecu's into thinking one thing is happening in order to make the factory ECU add more fuel, pull timing etc.. Well, VAG systems are highly intelligent and figure out that something is wrong when the knock count starts to get out of range or the cam phase sensor isn't matching the crank phase sensor or the Intake air temp is outside of parameter when compared to the outside air temperature sensor for the Body Control Module.. etc.. etc.. etc..

 

With a high quality stand alone, you can send the necessary can-bus information to the BCM to make the car think it still has factory ECU's. And, with the Diablo, the GFA is actually the source of a lot of the problems with the factory ECU's.. The GFA monitors EGT and Misfire sensors that the factory ECU does not. So, it sends a write command to the factory ECU (just like a piggy back). Now, this causes additional problems. If you have mild mis-fires, it sends signals to change fueling. This means that the computers ability to monitor itself in closed loop with O2 sensors is all but completely eliminated. So, what happens next? Bank 1 or bank 2 too rich/lean code. Now, if you have misfires, you will clog up a catalytic.. VERY FAST. This will result in a cat that will cause massive back pressure.. resulting in more misfires and more fuel. The loop continues until the CAT explodes.. Now.. guess what happens next.. the EGT sensor detects that the cat isn't getting hot (because there isn't one anymore) and the GFA tells the ECU to add EVEN MORE FUEL. So.. Diablo owners are actually quite familiar with what a Piggy Back system can do..

 

Are you saying someone went through 3 engines on a Heffner TT kit? Stock or built engine?

Yes. I'm saying they went through 3 engines. I do not know the extent of the build of the engine in each case. However, I know the individual and money was not an issue, so, I doubt he spared any expense. Now, on the other hand, I do understand how Piggy-Backs work and it's not surprising to me that the engines blew up. The rumor that was spreading had to do with the knock sensor inputs not being properly interrupted and the factory engine ECU was significantly retarding ignition timing causing a serious increase in EGT and cylinder combustion temps which resulted in significant internal engine damage. Now, please understand the last statement is ONLY A RUMOR.

 

Also, I cannot say that the individual didn't do any additional tweaking on their own. So, it is entirely possible that person used the race fuel tune with premium gas, or cranked the boost up to see what could be achieved on the dyno. But, again, this is truly symantics. Piggy-Back systems are limited at best.

 

When I was shopping for a standalone for my Esprit, I talked with manufacturers about the idea of piggy back systems to keep the budget down. Each of them advised me against it. The additional cost of running a proper standalone is insignificant when compared to the cost of a new engine.

That is a pretty bold statement without direct knowledge. To be on a 3rd engine is significant.

That is a pretty bold statement without direct knowledge. To be on a 3rd engine is significant.

 

I know it is.. That's why I cautioned about the rumor etc.. Its not a statement.. and perhaps I should simply edit it out. The fact does remain that the car went through three engines. And.. Heffner, to my knowledge, no longer uses piggy back's on their top end kits anyway. So.. the point is only about piggy backs.. nothing to do with Heffner.

What model Lamborghini, a Diablo? I don't think Diablo's use knock sensors?