TVR Tuscan

How about a Caterham 7 as a weekend toy? Would that be ok, or is riding a large Harley naked a more practical and safer option?

 

Lack of British pride in this thread is surprising.

 

Everything from the '50s is a death trap compared to cars bashed in this thread.

 

One of the most exciting cars I ever drove was a 500 Superlight R, I absolutely love them.

One of the most exciting cars I ever drove was a 500 Superlight R, I absolutely love them.

 

Another death trap lol

Another death trap lol

 

Fun death trap! LOL

How about a Caterham 7 as a weekend toy? Would that be ok, or is riding a large Harley naked a more practical and safer option?

 

Lack of British pride in this thread is surprising.

 

Everything from the '50s is a death trap compared to cars bashed in this thread.

 

This I would give it some endorsement. Yes, it's still a death trap but at least you knew that from the start. The TVR gives that false sense of security; it looks the part initially but falls way short soon after. The Caterham 7 you knew way before you even get near it so you tend to be careful with it.

 

What British pride? Safe the McLaren, every respectable marque had been sold & bought off by non-UK-based groups; Jaguar/Land Rover, Rolls Royce, Bentley just to name a famous few.

 

This I would give it some endorsement. Yes, it's still a death trap but at least you knew that from the start. The TVR gives that false sense of security; it looks the part initially but falls way short soon after. The Caterham 7 you knew way before you even get near it so you tend to be careful with it.

 

What British pride? Safe the McLaren, every respectable marque had been sold & bought off by non-UK-based groups; Jaguar/Land Rover, Rolls Royce, Bentley just to name a famous few.

 

Death trap IMHO is an overrated concern when people ride motorcycles, race cars on the track, drive vintage cars, etc. After driving an old Beetle in my formative years, most everything you can buy made since the '90s is a "safe car". I drove a buddy's late '80s Triumph a few years back where immediately the braking was so weak that you're constantly on edge just driving in normal 2 lane, 35 mph traffic -- and the brakes were supposedly new.

 

Always prescribed that the driver was a lot more important than the vehicle itself, and an act of god (like a tree falling at the worst possible time) will still kill you in the latest Volvo. So many deaths in safer, modern exotics and sports cars because the drivers overdrive them and do other stupid things. Driving the "death traps" is a calculated risk where the reward far outweighs the very low percentage of getting seriously hurt or killed.

 

Anyways, everyone is rightfully entitled to their opinion of death trap but when I hear even Elises called death traps, that's just a little too much.

 

With respect to British pride, it's just in the marque's history and where the car is designed and primarily built, not who currently owns it (my opinion). I've defended the crap out of Maserati while a bunch of enthusiasts on here and other forums call them a POS (mostly for less than stellar reliability) because to them a Maserati is just another car with a fancy name/badge while to me it's an Italian car with a ton of heritage. Still would defend it even if it was German/British owned. An Italian car is not just a car but to some degree, a son.

 

And obviously Lamborghini is still very much an Italian car company inspiring the Italian pride despite the Audi ownership.

One of the most exciting cars I ever drove was a 500 Superlight R, I absolutely love them.

 

When are you getting the 620R with sequential manual box?

 

 

I think we are on the same page as far as "deathtrap" is concerned. We approach it quite differently but the conclusion is the same. You look at the Caterham 7 and it simply looks fragile (for lack of a better word), so you tend to be careful with it or else you are putting the car, yourself and others at risk. Modern cars have so many electronic nannies which makes even a completely novice thinks he/she is a capable driver. The flip side being building confidence for the wrong cause and sooner than later, the car will be pushed beyond the limits of its electronic co-pilot and then all hell breaks loose and it likely will not end well. So in a twisted way, modern cars are "deathtrap" too as it instills false abilities and confidence. It cocoons you to the n-th degree but when that fails, it usually fails with serious consequences. Caterham's, MG's, Triumph's and even a Lotus Elise don't do that, they let/make you feel exactly what's going on and the older cars don't even give you any visual confidence. So begin with one dials back one's bravado and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

As to the British pride, it's hard to describe it in words (at least to me) but for marques like Lamborghini and Maserati, the new owners understand the heritage, the passion and perhaps even the chemistry people have with the brands; at least in a majority way. The fact that they are sports cars or super sports cars helps and we knew Italians are a compassionate bunch and would be more than proud to show it. Brits, by well known facts, are a conservative bunch at least at face value. Surely, national pride is there but let's just say it's more subtly stated. All the brands that are now foreign-owned have the so-called heritage (it's England after all) but the DNA is long gone. Personal opinion of course but when I look at a Bentley CGT and there's not a single thing "British" about that car, not even the burled walnut veneer or the leather (since Connolly is long dead) or the fancy chrome trim. The Mulsanne still has a bit of "Britishness" in it but not plenty for sure. Likewise for Rolls Royce. I am not trash-talking the Phantom, Ghost, Wraith, Dawn etc... but there is not a trace of British element in those cars. In contrast, you look at the SZ-series cars: sure, they are hopelessly outdated and they drive like a boat. But they ooze opulence, sophistication, elegance just like a British private club. The BMW-owned RR's simply intimidate and dominate. I won't say they lack sophistication because that won't be true, and they try extremely hard to do all sort of fancy coach work to up the elegance and opulence. But they just look and feel so...sterile and clinical which is what German cars are known for. The true heritage and DNA are long lost... Take another example, let's use the Lamborghini's Aventador S. Nothing wrong with the facelift styling at all; in fact, it looks quite good. But it's almost too good, i.e. everything is so clean-cut, so precise, so to the point...almost the perfect equilibrium. But that's also the downside. By being so clean and balanced, it lacks craziness, it lacks flare and in doing so, it waters down the essence of the crazy, idiosyncratic but passionate Italian supercar styling that Lamborghini is known for. Don't get me wrong, the Aventador S facelift looks great; but perhaps it's too clean and too well-balanced; as such, it seems more German than Italian; to me anyway.

 

And let's use our "speak" as another example. There is nothing "wrong" with an Audio Research solid-state pre-amp; but one would be crazy to choose a SS version over the tube one when it comes to ARC. The same reason that Conrad Johnson is alive and well but they have long axed their Motif brand. (Perhaps not really the same comparison but you get the idea. ) A better analogy would be the old KEF speakers vs. the new ones. Any audiophile worth his salt cannot deny the KEF's LS3/5A, the 105.4 and the 105.2. Now compare those to the KEF's Blade & Reference series and even the Muon under the new ownership. Technically, the newer ones are more "accurate" per se. But which ones would you really rather have?

I think we are on the same page as far as "deathtrap" is concerned. We approach it quite differently but the conclusion is the same. You look at the Caterham 7 and it simply looks fragile (for lack of a better word), so you tend to be careful with it or else you are putting the car, yourself and others at risk. Modern cars have so many electronic nannies which makes even a completely novice thinks he/she is a capable driver. The flip side being building confidence for the wrong cause and sooner than later, the car will be pushed beyond the limits of its electronic co-pilot and then all hell breaks loose and it likely will not end well. So in a twisted way, modern cars are "deathtrap" too as it instills false abilities and confidence. It cocoons you to the n-th degree but when that fails, it usually fails with serious consequences. Caterham's, MG's, Triumph's and even a Lotus Elise don't do that, they let/make you feel exactly what's going on and the older cars don't even give you any visual confidence. So begin with one dials back one's bravado and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

As to the British pride, it's hard to describe it in words (at least to me) but for marques like Lamborghini and Maserati, the new owners understand the heritage, the passion and perhaps even the chemistry people have with the brands; at least in a majority way. The fact that they are sports cars or super sports cars helps and we knew Italians are a compassionate bunch and would be more than proud to show it. Brits, by well known facts, are a conservative bunch at least at face value. Surely, national pride is there but let's just say it's more subtly stated. All the brands that are now foreign-owned have the so-called heritage (it's England after all) but the DNA is long gone. Personal opinion of course but when I look at a Bentley CGT and there's not a single thing "British" about that car, not even the burled walnut veneer or the leather (since Connolly is long dead) or the fancy chrome trim. The Mulsanne still has a bit of "Britishness" in it but not plenty for sure. Likewise for Rolls Royce. I am not trash-talking the Phantom, Ghost, Wraith, Dawn etc... but there is not a trace of British element in those cars. In contrast, you look at the SZ-series cars: sure, they are hopelessly outdated and they drive like a boat. But they ooze opulence, sophistication, elegance just like a British private club. The BMW-owned RR's simply intimidate and dominate. I won't say they lack sophistication because that won't be true, and they try extremely hard to do all sort of fancy coach work to up the elegance and opulence. But they just look and feel so...sterile and clinical which is what German cars are known for. The true heritage and DNA are long lost... Take another example, let's use the Lamborghini's Aventador S. Nothing wrong with the facelift styling at all; in fact, it looks quite good. But it's almost too good, i.e. everything is so clean-cut, so precise, so to the point...almost the perfect equilibrium. But that's also the downside. By being so clean and balanced, it lacks craziness, it lacks flare and in doing so, it waters down the essence of the crazy, idiosyncratic but passionate Italian supercar styling that Lamborghini is known for. Don't get me wrong, the Aventador S facelift looks great; but perhaps it's too clean and too well-balanced; as such, it seems more German than Italian; to me anyway.

 

And let's use our "speak" as another example. There is nothing "wrong" with an Audio Research solid-state pre-amp; but one would be crazy to choose a SS version over the tube one when it comes to ARC. The same reason that Conrad Johnson is alive and well but they have long axed their Motif brand. (Perhaps not really the same comparison but you get the idea. ) A better analogy would be the old KEF speakers vs. the new ones. Any audiophile worth his salt cannot deny the KEF's LS3/5A, the 105.4 and the 105.2. Now compare those to the KEF's Blade & Reference series and even the Muon under the new ownership. Technically, the newer ones are more "accurate" per se. But which ones would you really rather have?

 

Haha, true.

 

Good post A, didn't know how badly the new Bents and Royces have dropped in their British-ism. I knew the Continentals and Ghosts were British styled Audis & BMWs respectively (not that there's anything wrong with that....they look great), but figured the Mulsannes and Wraith/Drophead cars kept it real as well as the older cars (Mulliner can't save the day? ) . I've got a car friend who is particularly snobby about the older Bentley Turbo Rs and Rolls Royce Corniches of the '80s that he owns, but hard to discern if he's a real purist or just hating on the more expensive newer cars that I'm unsure he could afford.

 

Dilution of the British and Italian brands mentioned is a very real thing unfortunately. Cannot separate that engineering expertise with diluting the feel and essence. In Lamborghini's defense, Fiat has owned Ferrari since the '60s and naturally could not co own Lamborghini, and Lancia has no business owning L either. There's nobody in Italy car manufacturer wise that could own Lamborghini, so perhaps a German was the only choice. British has more passion fitting for an Italian exotic, but alas they cannot own themselves anymore as you've mentioned.

 

Hopefully for Lamborghini, having an Italian CEO ex Ferrari F1 director will balance things out.

 

When are you getting the 620R with sequential manual box?

 

I'd love that but they aren't selling them here.

I'd love that but they aren't selling them here.

 

Sorry to hear.

 

RHD only, btw.

Sorry to hear.

 

RHD only, btw.

 

All good, I don't even have time for the cars I have I certainly don't need any more.