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Murcielago Appreciation


RobberBaron
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My 2 cents...

First off, I sold my 2008 LP640 VI GATED 6 speed car today for FULL asking price of $375K. It will soon be living in Newport Beach with a pretty good collection of other high end collectible cars.

 

http://www.catsexotics.com/vehicle-details...-wa-id-15340478

 

 

As for my LP670-4SV Stick car, it currently has over 25K on the clock and is in MINT MINT MINT condition.

My last LEGIT offer for the car was $800K from a pretty well know collector. I did not accept as the car is NOT for sale and can NOT be replaced. My kids can do what they will with it after I am gone.

 

I now have in stock a low mile 2009 Stick LP640 roadster and just bought and will be inbound shortly a 2008 LP640 Stick Roadster.

 

I thinik, as far as cars that CAN be bought, the list is this

 

LP670-4SV E Gear (both stick cars are NOT for sale).

LP640 Roadster Stick (only 4 made for 08 and four for 09)

LP640 Coupe Stick

LP640 E Gear Roadster

LP640 E Gear Coupe

02-03 Stick 6.2 cars

04-06 Stick 6.2 cars

04-06 E Gear 6.2 cars

 

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My 2 cents...

First off, I sold my 2008 LP640 VI GATED 6 speed car today for FULL asking price of $375K. It will soon be living in Newport Beach with a pretty good collection of other high end collectible cars.

 

http://www.catsexotics.com/vehicle-details...-wa-id-15340478

 

 

As for my LP670-4SV Stick car, it currently has over 25K on the clock and is in MINT MINT MINT condition.

My last LEGIT offer for the car was $800K from a pretty well know collector. I did not accept as the car is NOT for sale and can NOT be replaced. My kids can do what they will with it after I am gone.

 

I now have in stock a low mile 2009 Stick LP640 roadster and just bought and will be inbound shortly a 2008 LP640 Stick Roadster.

 

I thinik, as far as cars that CAN be bought, the list is this

 

LP670-4SV E Gear (both stick cars are NOT for sale).

LP640 Roadster Stick (only 4 made for 08 and four for 09)

LP640 Coupe Stick

LP640 E Gear Roadster

LP640 E Gear Coupe

02-03 Stick 6.2 cars

04-06 Stick 6.2 cars

04-06 E Gear 6.2 cars

 

If anyone’s words/opinion on the collectibility of Murcielagos are any more valuable than this mans, I sure don’t know who it would be!

 

The list was on point with my evaluation until right when we fell into the non lp cars. Roy still wins but here is my problem with the bottom of the list:

02-03 have THE worst brakes of all murci years, death trap almost under extreme conditions, but they seemingly I think have stronger stock motors of the early generations, but ALL were stick so every car those years is guaranteed stick (so volume wise, more of these than any)

 

04-06 these were better brakes years, noticeably improved. These also started the egear years, so that means there was a mix of two transmissions, which makes these less likely to have stick, its not guaranteed liked 02-03, so less supply of sticks, better brakes, I move stick 04-06 over 02-03

 

Thanks,

 

Jon

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If anyone’s words/opinion on the collectibility of Murcielagos are any more valuable than this mans, I sure don’t know who it would be!

 

The list was on point with my evaluation until right when we fell into the non lp cars. Roy still wins but here is my problem with the bottom of the list:

02-03 have THE worst brakes of all murci years, death trap almost under extreme conditions, but they seemingly I think have stronger stock motors of the early generations, but ALL were stick so every car those years is guaranteed stick (so volume wise, more of these than any)

 

04-06 these were better brakes years, noticeably improved. These also started the egear years, so that means there was a mix of two transmissions, which makes these less likely to have stick, its not guaranteed liked 02-03, so less supply of sticks, better brakes, I move stick 04-06 over 02-03

 

Thanks,

 

Jon

 

So... I have an 04 stick... That means I know something about these cars.

 

And: The brakes are the same as the 02-03. And: I did something to make them worse. I put on completely dust-free ceramic street pads that are very gentle on the rotors (despite the Internet myth that dust free ceramic pads eat rotors).

 

Over 2 years of ownership, I have been on multiple super car runs where we have police escorts taking us over 120mph down the freeway only to have to come to an emergency stop multiple times due to the super cars tailgating. And the cars stopping in front of me were much newer with supposedly much better brakes. And I just got back from taking the Murci on the track for the Lamborghini Festival, and then a couple hours later driving a Huracan on the same track. My Murci brakes did just fine, and honestly, I didn't feel any difference in confidence of the brakes between both cars. Granted, it wasn't a 24 hour race, but who's doing that with an old Murci?

 

So with that said, I can confidently say there's nothing dangerous about the early brakes, and using terms like "death trap under extreme conditions" is creating yet another Internet myth.

 

Maybe if your early Murci brakes are out of spec with the pads low on material, the rotors worn beyond spec, and old brake fluid that has absorbed moisture, then you would have a death trap on your hands. But my brakes are working like new.

 

Keep in mind the Stig did not die after giving an early Murci the beans on the track to set a lap record at the time. And you can bet he didn't just do one lap before filming this:

 

 

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The truth is that it's anybody's guess as to what will happen with any car's values. It's no different than betting on horses.

 

I have the manual Murci, and another car that is surprisingly low in value, the Lotus Esprit.

 

Both haven't been "discovered" yet by collectors. Not sure if they ever will be. If you look at the Esprit, it's a real head scratcher. It has all the right elements to take off in value: The Lotus heritage, Hollywood exposure in big time movies, poster car for high school and college dorm walls, significant winning racing history, incredible handling and speed performance for it's time, and in reality despite the reputation, a very reliable and low cost to car to maintain compared to its peers. But it sits on the bottom end still while POS cars like the DeLorean and Ferrari 308 skyrocket.

 

We'll just have to wait and see if we placed our bets well.

 

 

i agree on lotus esprit ...lot of car for the money! 100% sure too cheap for what you get

 

i think the early manual murcielago will go up. i do not see any of the e gear murcielago going up, may be the SV...but they are already pretty expensive

 

 

i think all manual murcielago are a safe bet but at the same time i feel the manual 640 are already VERY high in this market...both the roadster and the open top, so probably will hold the value but not going up even further

 

i do not understand how people can tell why the murcie roadster is better than a diablo roadster since the diablo is good both top on as top off while the murcie roadster is good only whitout the roof. so i do not see roadster murcielago will be worth more or much more than coupè murcie

 

to me the lamborghini that should appreciate more is the diablo since it is built in very small number for every single variants, they are all manuals, 100% hand built, much Italian and Gandini design.

you can still buy a good 91 or VT for cheap and even some SV and roadster are not so expensive

 

to me makes little sense a manual 640 is worth much more than most diablos

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I also agree that the e-gear cars don't have much hope of crazy appreciation (aside from the SVs). Despite the improvements of the LP-640 the e-gear system lets it down. Personally I like the aggressive single clutch gearboxes. I think they give the cars personality and some kick, but majority of the market disagrees with me. The only way I can see the e-gear Murcielagos going up is just based on their relative rarity in production numbers. Compared to almost every modern supercar the Murcielago production is very low. Roughly 4,000 cars in-between 2002-2010 and god knows how many have been crashed. There are (correct me if I am wrong) 1,100 Aventador SVs (500 & 600 split in-between roadsters and coupes), roughly 1,000 657LTs, over 1,000 458 Speciales, etc. and those are the "limited edition" cars within those model's production numbers. I think the Diablo gets hurt by their reputation for expensive repair bills (similar to the F355).

 

The brakes on my 03 Murcie are nothing to write home about, but they get the job done. I have never been worried about them failing or not stopping. I think they have poor feel through the pedal compared to many other cars I have driven, but that is more of a preference than anything else.

 

I hope the 6-speed LP-640s are starting to set the tone for the rest of us. Hearing Roy got full asking for his VI car is definitely a good sign that the market for manual Murcies is going up. I also think the divide in-between the LP-640 prices and the 6.2 (manual prices) should help out us 6.2 guys.

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So... I have an 04 stick... That means I know something about these cars.

 

And: The brakes are the same as the 02-03. And: I did something to make them worse. I put on completely dust-free ceramic street pads that are very gentle on the rotors (despite the Internet myth that dust free ceramic pads eat rotors).

 

Over 2 years of ownership, I have been on multiple super car runs where we have police escorts taking us over 120mph down the freeway only to have to come to an emergency stop multiple times due to the super cars tailgating. And the cars stopping in front of me were much newer with supposedly much better brakes. And I just got back from taking the Murci on the track for the Lamborghini Festival, and then a couple hours later driving a Huracan on the same track. My Murci brakes did just fine, and honestly, I didn't feel any difference in confidence of the brakes between both cars. Granted, it wasn't a 24 hour race, but who's doing that with an old Murci?

 

So with that said, I can confidently say there's nothing dangerous about the early brakes, and using terms like "death trap under extreme conditions" is creating yet another Internet myth.

 

Maybe if your early Murci brakes are out of spec with the pads low on material, the rotors worn beyond spec, and old brake fluid that has absorbed moisture, then you would have a death trap on your hands. But my brakes are working like new.

 

Keep in mind the Stig did not die after giving an early Murci the beans on the track to set a lap record at the time. And you can bet he didn't just do one lap before filming this:

 

We seemingly never agree, and I like that. We'll keep that going. I have owned an 06 and 09 with Ceramic Lambo Brakes, sorry your 04 would be part of my ass end if not my passenger if we both slammed them at the same time and you were behind me. I get you want to protect the reputation of your version, and that's acceptable, but trust me, they pale in comparison to the newer brakes put on the cars. At least I concede one thing, and that is that 04 does still have the worst brakes of the lineup, the 05 and up start getting the better ones. No internet myth, I bet your boy stig wasnt panic stopping the Murci in those track times silly. Those of us who have driven both can attest to the significant difference, but glad you're enjoying yours.

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We seemingly never agree, and I like that. We'll keep that going. I have owned an 06 and 09 with Ceramic Lambo Brakes, sorry your 04 would be part of my ass end if not my passenger if we both slammed them at the same time and you were behind me. I get you want to protect the reputation of your version, and that's acceptable, but trust me, they pale in comparison to the newer brakes put on the cars. At least I concede one thing, and that is that 04 does still have the worst brakes of the lineup, the 05 and up start getting the better ones. No internet myth, I bet your boy stig wasnt panic stopping the Murci in those track times silly. Those of us who have driven both can attest to the significant difference, but glad you're enjoying yours.

 

Well, at least we now agree now that the 02-04 brakes are not a "death trap."

 

Just because a newer car has better performance than an older car (duh!), it doesn't make the older car a death trap. Where do you come up with your silly logic??

 

Oh, but wait, the Murci SV stops from 0-60 in about 10 feet less than your LP640! Oh my god, you're driving a death trap! If an SV were to stop in front of you, you would be part of his ass end!!!!!!!

 

Quick sell your death trap!!!

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Well, at least we now agree now that the 02-04 brakes are not a "death trap."

 

Just because a newer car has better performance than an older car (duh!), it doesn't make the older car a death trap. Where do you come up with your silly logic??

 

Oh, but wait, the Murci SV stops from 0-60 in about 10 feet less than your LP640! Oh my god, you're driving a death trap! If an SV were to stop in front of you, you would be part of his ass end!!!!!!!

 

Quick sell your death trap!!!

 

Sorry the close distance between the LP670 and the LP640 is NO WHERE NEAR as HUGE of a gap between your cars stopping power and mine. The only thing we agreed to is that your car does still have the shitty brakes, congrats AND the generally least powerful motor of all the years. Congrats glad you like mediocrity in the lineup! I still absolutely believe that panic stopping in your car is death trap status compared to the MUCH improved 05+ brakes.

 

Have a nice day, dont tailgate 05+ Murcielagos hahahah

 

Jon

 

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http://bid.txauction.com/2008-Lamborghini-...ansmi_i28137515

 

40 2008 Lamborghini Murcielago Convertible with Butterfly Doors; 6.5L V12 FI DOHC 48V; Standard Transmission

 

Currency:USD Category:Vehicles Start Price:130,000.00 USD Estimated At:NA

 

 

2008 Lamborghini Murcielago Convertible with Butterfly Doors; 6.5L V12 FI DOHC 48V; Standard Transmission

 

 

SOLD

 

274,000.00USDto f***r

+ applicable fees & taxes.

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http://bid.txauction.com/2008-Lamborghini-...ansmi_i28137515

 

40 2008 Lamborghini Murcielago Convertible with Butterfly Doors; 6.5L V12 FI DOHC 48V; Standard Transmission

 

Currency:USD Category:Vehicles Start Price:130,000.00 USD Estimated At:NA

 

 

2008 Lamborghini Murcielago Convertible with Butterfly Doors; 6.5L V12 FI DOHC 48V; Standard Transmission

 

 

SOLD

 

274,000.00USDto f***r

+ applicable fees & taxes.

 

Yeah and Roy was watching the auction so I am guessing he is high bidder? 280k purchase price for a retail sales guy is a good price, as he can mark it up another 100k and hold out until he gets it. As he did the verde ithica one. Private party wont get that much for it but they avoided excessive markup if they have been wanting a roadster, lp640, stick.

 

Some interesting prices for sure in that auction, but it was too well publicized to have anyone steal anything too unique.

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Yeah and Roy was watching the auction so I am guessing he is high bidder? 280k purchase price for a retail sales guy is a good price, as he can mark it up another 100k and hold out until he gets it. As he did the verde ithica one. Private party wont get that much for it but they avoided excessive markup if they have been wanting a roadster, lp640, stick.

 

Some interesting prices for sure in that auction, but it was too well publicized to have anyone steal anything too unique.

 

The auction was open to the public. Anyone could register and bid at the auction. The car isn't worth more if a dealer bought it rather than a private party.

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We seemingly never agree, and I like that. We'll keep that going. I have owned an 06 and 09 with Ceramic Lambo Brakes, sorry your 04 would be part of my ass end if not my passenger if we both slammed them at the same time and you were behind me. I get you want to protect the reputation of your version, and that's acceptable, but trust me, they pale in comparison to the newer brakes put on the cars. At least I concede one thing, and that is that 04 does still have the worst brakes of the lineup, the 05 and up start getting the better ones. No internet myth, I bet your boy stig wasnt panic stopping the Murci in those track times silly. Those of us who have driven both can attest to the significant difference, but glad you're enjoying yours.

 

I had an '04 and now '09 with CCB's. Both of you guys are right. Early M's have decent brakes, but definitely not a death trap. However, they won't even come anywhere close to the stopping capability of the CCB's. Night and day difference. I "barely" tap on my CCB and feels like my body is thrown forward almost everytime.

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The auction was open to the public. Anyone could register and bid at the auction. The car isn't worth more if a dealer bought it rather than a private party.

 

 

Either I wasn’t clear or you didn’t understand me, what I am saying is something we all know, retail sale of a car fetches more money then a private party sale. If Roy sells the car (or actually its current owner Chicago Motor cars) they will get more money for it than if I sold it myself. So while the costs to purchase it from the auction house would be the same the resale price would be more profitable to a retail store then a private party. So I was under the belief and proven right that a retail store bought it and will certainly be trying to get a nice profit off it. More than I could have gotten if I had bought it and done the same.

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I had an '04 and now '09 with CCB's. Both of you guys are right. Early M's have decent brakes, but definitely not a death trap. However, they won't even come anywhere close to the stopping capability of the CCB's. Night and day difference. I "barely" tap on my CCB and feels like my body is thrown forward almost everytime.

 

With my old 03, my brakes sucked and a couple times under heavy last minute braking almost ate a curb.

 

At the time the brakes didn't really stand out to me as an issue, untill I sold the 03 and picked up an 07 with CCB, and as you say "barely" touch the brakes and you need to hold on. And the nice thing about them I've noticed, it don't matter if they are cold or hot they stop great. I drove an Aventador and the brakes when cold where nothing like the Murci, but as they got hotter they stopped very good.

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With my old 03, my brakes sucked and a couple times under heavy last minute braking almost ate a curb.

 

3 possibilities with your 03:

 

1) You didn't maintain the brakes well, so they weren't working to spec

2) You don't know how to drive and you're blaming it on the brakes

3) You're making stuff up just for fun on the Internet

 

The brakes of the early Murci are up to spec with what was out there at the time, not by my observation, but by the experts:

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/lambor...elago-road-test

"the brakes otherwise function exactly as advertised, halting all motion from 70 mph in 155 feet-within 12 inches of what a FABCAR-Porsche can achieve."

 

http://www.motortrend.com/news/by-the-numb...-diablo-163241/

2002 Lamborghini Murcielago tested on 1/29/03 by Motor Trend

"60-0 mph: 111 feet"

 

That's very super car performance for the early 2000's. If you can't stop safely in a car that can stop in 111 ft from 60mph, then you need some lessons and quit blaming the car.

 

Here's a story that comes to mind: I had a really stupid boss once that eventually got fired, for being stupid. While he was still employed at that company, I took him for lunch one day in my Chrysler 300C, back when they were still considered cool cars. He told me he had one, but that he got rid of it because the handling was so bad that it caused him to crash. I later found out from one of his friends that he crashed his 300C in the office car park of his previous job coming back from lunch drunk. So I'll take your comment about your experience with the Murci brakes with a grain of salt.

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3 possibilities with your 03:

 

1) You didn't maintain the brakes well, so they weren't working to spec

2) You don't know how to drive and you're blaming it on the brakes

3) You're making stuff up just for fun on the Internet

 

The brakes of the early Murci are up to spec with what was out there at the time, not by my observation, but by the experts:

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/lambor...elago-road-test

"the brakes otherwise function exactly as advertised, halting all motion from 70 mph in 155 feet-within 12 inches of what a FABCAR-Porsche can achieve."

 

http://www.motortrend.com/news/by-the-numb...-diablo-163241/

2002 Lamborghini Murcielago tested on 1/29/03 by Motor Trend

"60-0 mph: 111 feet"

 

That's very super car performance for the early 2000's. If you can't stop safely in a car that can stop in 111 ft from 60mph, then you need some lessons and quit blaming the car.

 

Here's a story that comes to mind: I had a really stupid boss once that eventually got fired, for being stupid. While he was still employed at that company, I took him for lunch one day in my Chrysler 300C, back when they were still considered cool cars. He told me he had one, but that he got rid of it because the handling was so bad that it caused him to crash. I later found out from one of his friends that he crashed his 300C in the office car park of his previous job coming back from lunch drunk. So I'll take your comment about your experience with the Murci brakes with a grain of salt.

 

You can take my experience how ever you want, makes absolutely zero difference to me :icon_thumleft:

 

Your boss being "stupid" as you call him has zero interest to me and this discussion.

 

Facts are facts and if you don't like the fact that the 03 had horrible brakes compared to my LP CCB then you can just deal with it lol.

 

I posted a polite opion based on my experience. So you shouldn't act like your 15 years old and question my driving ability and condition of the car in the way you did.

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You can take my experience how ever you want, makes absolutely zero difference to me :icon_thumleft:

 

Your boss being "stupid" as you call him has zero interest to me and this discussion.

 

Facts are facts and if you don't like the fact that the 03 had horrible brakes compared to my LP CCB then you can just deal with it lol.

 

I posted a polite opion based on my experience. So you shouldn't act like your 15 years old and question my driving ability and condition of the car in the way you did.

 

You just got exposed to the very reason I cannot stand that guy.

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You just got exposed to the very reason I cannot stand that guy.

 

Yeah I hear you man, I'm just not the type to fight over the keyboard and disrespect people's ability and or cars. I definitely didn't mean to offend the guy and his car but man it's just an opinion :icon_thumleft:

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Either I wasn’t clear or you didn’t understand me, what I am saying is something we all know, retail sale of a car fetches more money then a private party sale. If Roy sells the car (or actually its current owner Chicago Motor cars) they will get more money for it than if I sold it myself. So while the costs to purchase it from the auction house would be the same the resale price would be more profitable to a retail store then a private party. So I was under the belief and proven right that a retail store bought it and will certainly be trying to get a nice profit off it. More than I could have gotten if I had bought it and done the same.

 

I understood what you said. Just because it is in the hands of a dealer does not make it worth more. Sure KBB and NADA show a few thousand more for run on the mill cars because the dealer may have spent more refurbishing the car. What makes it more profitable for a dealer vs. private party? Just because its in the hands of a dealer?

 

Chicago Motor Cars boughtZHWBU47M78LA02880 for $274,000. Now asking $449,800. A car that goes from a public auction into the hands of a dealer is not worth $175,000+ more. Or even $100,000 more. They haven't done any service or maintenance to it except maybe a wash or detail.

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I understood what you said. Just because it is in the hands of a dealer does not make it worth more. Sure KBB and NADA show a few thousand more for run on the mill cars because the dealer may have spent more refurbishing the car. What makes it more profitable for a dealer vs. private party? Just because its in the hands of a dealer?

 

Chicago Motor Cars boughtZHWBU47M78LA02880 for $274,000. Now asking $449,800. A car that goes from a public auction into the hands of a dealer is not worth $175,000+ more. Or even $100,000 more. They haven't done any service or maintenance to it except maybe a wash or detail.

 

I’m not a fan of theirs, but this is EXACTLY what I was guessing was going to happen. Sadly he is probably going to get it with the current hype on stick murcielagos.

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This was listed a few days ago. I would be thrilled if he go anywhere near what he is asking, but I think the price is seemingly nuts! Looks like a clean car though.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-Lamborghini-M...KNy&vxp=mtr

 

Beyond nuts. Those early orange cars have been on the market forever it seems at 160-175. Not sure why the seller would think that's possible. Is that the same black car that was at a dealer not too long ago for 160?

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Agree insane. Maybe trying to apiece his wife who is demanding a sale. Anyone can ask any price they like. Getting the price asked is the key.

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