McLaren P15

P1 didn’t tank, I am confused, is the P15 the successor of P1?

 

The P15 is more of a special series car, like the McLaren equivalent of a Centenario or an Aston Martin Vulcan. The P1 is still the flagship Hypercar, this is more of an offshoot track monster, so it's more like it's own thing. The P1 replacement will be the new 3-seater they are working on.

 

Fortis, outside of the P1 and F1, most of their other vehicles get hit hard with depreciation.

 

Yup. McLaren's fall pretty hard, which is great for anyone who wants a used one.

 

I am fairly sure that as a technical exercise this car is up there with the best of its peers. The performance stats are no doubt impressive. The current cost and any future value are specifically of interest to imminent and future owners.

All that being said the car is, in my opinion, one of the ugliest of any class of car produced in recent memory.

I would love the opportunity to ask an exec of McLaren - what on earth were you thinking when you signed off on the aesthetics of the design?

I am fairly sure that as a technical exercise this car is up there with the best of its peers. The performance stats are no doubt impressive. The current cost and any future value are specifically of interest to imminent and future owners.

All that being said the car is, in my opinion, one of the ugliest of any class of car produced in recent memory.

I would love the opportunity to ask an exec of McLaren - what on earth were you thinking when you signed off on the aesthetics of the design?

 

:iamwithstupid:

 

 

I am fairly sure that as a technical exercise this car is up there with the best of its peers. The performance stats are no doubt impressive. The current cost and any future value are specifically of interest to imminent and future owners.

All that being said the car is, in my opinion, one of the ugliest of any class of car produced in recent memory.

I would love the opportunity to ask an exec of McLaren - what on earth were you thinking when you signed off on the aesthetics of the design?

 

A la Nissan GTR

Im not sure what to think, kind of looks like a kit car. Everyone HATED the 720s when it came out so initial reactions dont mean sh*t. Im sure this is something that needs to be seen in person and might looks better in certain colors.

 

 

this entire forum hated the SV -CHECK THE THREADS- I went on and on about I am ready to buy SV I love it... I bought 2 of them and .... seems everyone warmed up to the SV ... I'm thinking lots of criticism... I'm not like that. I love any new interesting design... I mean ... whatever it is... I am looking to surround myself with high performance; extreme; wild and different ... that's how I like my women and my super cars... also ... new models only because they can take being pounded hard on a daily

Fortis, outside of the P1 and F1, most of their other vehicles get hit hard with depreciation.

 

Very true but personally I wouldn’t own any others, I’d do some nasty things for a P1 GTR

The P15 is more of a special series car, like the McLaren equivalent of a Centenario or an Aston Martin Vulcan. The P1 is still the flagship Hypercar, this is more of an offshoot track monster, so it's more like it's own thing. The P1 replacement will be the new 3-seater they are working on.

 

 

 

Yup. McLaren's fall pretty hard, which is great for anyone who wants a used one.

 

Thank you for the explanation, that makes sense

new models only because they can take being pounded hard on a daily

P1 didn't tank, I am confused, is the P15 the successor of P1?

Yes and no.

 

McLaren have 3 tiers of cars: Sport, Super, and Ultimate Series. The 570 would be a Sport Series, the 720S a Super Series, and the P1 an Ultimate Series. The Sport and Super have a reputation for tanking in value, but this is mainly because the models that tanked were from a new unknown brand, and thus the secondary market was not strong. This should change with the 720S, a benchmark performance car, and the 570, whose pricepoint is low enough to avoid a massive hit as lower-end competitors get more expensive.

 

The P1 was the first car in the Ultimate Series, and unlike Ferrari and Porsche, whose own "ultimate" cars have 10 year intervals, McLaren will be releasing Ultimate Series cars rather more frequently, and not necessarily with the same goals. The P1 was a hybrid, the P15 Senna is not, the 3 seater codenamed BP23 is also not. The P1 was designed with track use in mind, but that was not its raison d'etre, while the Senna seems designed purely for track use. The BP23 will be a much prettier GT.

 

The reason I wouldn't be comfortable using successor is because the Ultimate Series is not just one goal, but more a realization of the best they can do in different genres. The fixed (and low) production numbers should guarantee value maintenance: 375 units P1, 500 units P15 Senna, 106 units BP23.

 

All that being said the car is, in my opinion, one of the ugliest of any class of car produced in recent memory.

I would love the opportunity to ask an exec of McLaren - what on earth were you thinking when you signed off on the aesthetics of the design?

As for ugly, well, that's for you and history to decide. The F40 was heavily criticised when new for being ugly, with too much race car, and history as decided otherwise. That doesn't mean everyone likes it today.

 

As for asking a McLaren exec, that would not be as easy as you think. I happened to be with a McLaren exec when the P15 was revealed last Sunday, and the question did not come up. Some questions you don't ask, they would be very awkward and make you look bad. For example, a relative's wife has just given birth to a very ugly baby. Do you say to that relative: Phew! That baby is U G L Y!! Can't be yours or hers, you're both good-looking. Do you suppose she cheated on you with an ugly man? And now that it's here, please, please give it up for adoption.

 

This questioning completely negates that ugly (to you) or not, perhaps the parents love that baby, and are extremely proud of it. I found it more helpful to look at this seemingly awkward design and say to myself "These people are not stupid, they built this car exactly like this for a good reason, let me try and understand the reason".

Yes and no.

 

McLaren have 3 tiers of cars: Sport, Super, and Ultimate Series. The 570 would be a Sport Series, the 720S a Super Series, and the P1 an Ultimate Series. The Sport and Super have a reputation for tanking in value, but this is mainly because the models that tanked were from a new unknown brand, and thus the secondary market was not strong. This should change with the 720S, a benchmark performance car, and the 570, whose pricepoint is low enough to avoid a massive hit as lower-end competitors get more expensive.

 

The P1 was the first car in the Ultimate Series, and unlike Ferrari and Porsche, whose own "ultimate" cars have 10 year intervals, McLaren will be releasing Ultimate Series cars rather more frequently, and not necessarily with the same goals. The P1 was a hybrid, the P15 Senna is not, the 3 seater codenamed BP23 is also not. The P1 was designed with track use in mind, but that was not its raison d'etre, while the Senna seems designed purely for track use. The BP23 will be a much prettier GT.

 

The reason I wouldn't be comfortable using successor is because the Ultimate Series is not just one goal, but more a realization of the best they can do in different genres. The fixed (and low) production numbers should guarantee value maintenance: 375 units P1, 500 units P15 Senna, 106 units BP23.

 

As for ugly, well, that's for you and history to decide. The F40 was heavily criticised when new for being ugly, with too much race car, and history as decided otherwise. That doesn't mean everyone likes it today.

 

As for asking a McLaren exec, that would not be as easy as you think. I happened to be with a McLaren exec when the P15 was revealed last Sunday, and the question did not come up. Some questions you don't ask, they would be very awkward and make you look bad. For example, a relative's wife has just given birth to a very ugly baby. Do you say to that relative: Phew! That baby is U G L Y!! Can't be yours or hers, you're both good-looking. Do you suppose she cheated on you with an ugly man? And now that it's here, please, please give it up for adoption.

 

This questioning completely negates that ugly (to you) or not, perhaps the parents love that baby, and are extremely proud of it. I found it more helpful to look at this seemingly awkward design and say to myself "These people are not stupid, they built this car exactly like this for a good reason, let me try and understand the reason".

I'm a McLaren fan and owned a 12c & 650s, the resale values is what made me switch back to lambo. they are great cars that are fast as hell but they still have some growing up to do IMO. with the senna model, I understand track domination, but this car is way off in the looks dept. not proportioned whatsoever, someone missed the boat on this one. the P1 GTR is track focused and looks insane. the 570 looks better IMO.

I'm a McLaren fan and owned a 12c & 650s, the resale values is what made me switch back to lambo. they are great cars that are fast as hell but they still have some growing up to do IMO. with the senna model, I understand track domination, but this car is way off in the looks dept. not proportioned whatsoever, someone missed the boat on this one. the P1 GTR is track focused and looks insane. the 570 looks better IMO.

All I can say is revisit this in a couple of years, after the cars are released, different specs are seen, videos of the car in motion are seen, and you've seen one in the flesh. If after that exposure you feel the same way, so be it. Personally I'll reserve judgement until I've at least had a good look myself.

I was under the impression that the BP23 was going to be a hybrid like the P1.

Yes and no.

 

McLaren have 3 tiers of cars: Sport, Super, and Ultimate Series. The 570 would be a Sport Series, the 720S a Super Series, and the P1 an Ultimate Series. The Sport and Super have a reputation for tanking in value, but this is mainly because the models that tanked were from a new unknown brand, and thus the secondary market was not strong. This should change with the 720S, a benchmark performance car, and the 570, whose pricepoint is low enough to avoid a massive hit as lower-end competitors get more expensive.

 

The P1 was the first car in the Ultimate Series, and unlike Ferrari and Porsche, whose own "ultimate" cars have 10 year intervals, McLaren will be releasing Ultimate Series cars rather more frequently, and not necessarily with the same goals. The P1 was a hybrid, the P15 Senna is not, the 3 seater codenamed BP23 is also not. The P1 was designed with track use in mind, but that was not its raison d'etre, while the Senna seems designed purely for track use. The BP23 will be a much prettier GT.

 

The reason I wouldn't be comfortable using successor is because the Ultimate Series is not just one goal, but more a realization of the best they can do in different genres. The fixed (and low) production numbers should guarantee value maintenance: 375 units P1, 500 units P15 Senna, 106 units BP23.

 

As for ugly, well, that's for you and history to decide. The F40 was heavily criticised when new for being ugly, with too much race car, and history as decided otherwise. That doesn't mean everyone likes it today.

 

As for asking a McLaren exec, that would not be as easy as you think. I happened to be with a McLaren exec when the P15 was revealed last Sunday, and the question did not come up. Some questions you don't ask, they would be very awkward and make you look bad. For example, a relative's wife has just given birth to a very ugly baby. Do you say to that relative: Phew! That baby is U G L Y!! Can't be yours or hers, you're both good-looking. Do you suppose she cheated on you with an ugly man? And now that it's here, please, please give it up for adoption.

 

This questioning completely negates that ugly (to you) or not, perhaps the parents love that baby, and are extremely proud of it. I found it more helpful to look at this seemingly awkward design and say to myself "These people are not stupid, they built this car exactly like this for a good reason, let me try and understand the reason".

 

Well said on the McLaren philosophical process. I also agree, when in the presence of the execs, I always try to approach from an place of understanding, though I have been known to share my opinion in a diplomatic way.

 

I do not foresee history (or the internet for that matter) being kind to this car. The natural balance of proportion is off which goes against timelessness in design language.

 

I still feel that McLaren's will continue to not hold their value (with the exception of ultimate series cars) due a few factors, but namely branding and market competitiveness. Lamborghini truly was brilliant with the Aventador, as it is in it's own price range class. McLaren on the other hand, has to fight in an increasingly crowded field. Both the 570S and the 720S have to go head-to-head with the full range of the Hurcan at every price point, from the $195K RWD Hurcan up to the Nurbergring conquering Perfomante, which starts at $274k. The 570S starts at $190K and the 720S Starts at $280K. And that's before you toss in the Ferrari 488, the Porsche 911 GT2 RS, 911 Turbo S, The AMG GT R, Corvette ZR1, Nissan GTR Nismo and the list goes on...

 

McLaren makes a great track machine that can throw up numbers, but in my opinion they miss a core tenant of why people love these types of cars and it's not about the numbers or the logic. It's as if they are treating the driving experience as a purely mathematical and sterile formula. For some people that works, but when most of us are dreaming of these machine, we're not wrapped up in the numbers game. We're looking at the design, the sound, the feeling the car has when it takes a corner at speed. A common problem with many new cars is that they are too clever for their own good...they are capable too capable and make the driver feel totally unnecessary. Drivers want to DRIVE, not be highly informed passengers. Now McLaren's philosophy has extended from their racing heritage...they are a race company first and foremost. But I feel they forgot what made the F1 so special. The F1 could capture the awe and imagination because it looked beautiful, it sounded mean, it had the numbers that went far beyond what everyone else was doing at the time and it was focused on the driving experience. Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, and the F1 was a simple design, a big engine, and no driving aids to get in the way of the experience (for better or for worse). Compare that to the Hyper-technical cars McLaren makes today...there's a lot to be said about difference.

 

 

They are great cars that are fast as hell but they still have some growing up to do IMO. with the senna model, I understand track domination, but this car is way off in the looks dept. not proportioned whatsoever, someone missed the boat on this one. the P1 GTR is track focused and looks insane. the 570 looks better IMO.

 

 

Excellently said. The P1 GTR is a track monster but has that awe-inspiring presence and look that no other car they made has has since the F1. I McLaren fashion, pure engineering runs the show and so this car is pure function, no form. Even the Pagani Zonda R, which is hideous, is actually a beautiful looking machine at the same time which is a very hard trick to pull off.

 

I feel that performance has never been an issue for McLaren, but styling has always been their weakest card. The MP4-12C did something few supercars ever did: It was a cool car yet dull at the same time. But it was a first step. The 650S was a bit weird, but an improvement...yet not really at the same time. the 675LT had all the right little extra bits, especially the rear, but something still doesn't truly click with the design. The 570S I thought was a little to insectiod but I actually dig the look of it now. The 720S, as I have stated before and will continue to do so, has the worst looking front for a supercar I have ever seen. The rest of the car is nice but the front look kills it all. It's different and bold, but it's way to insectiod, doesn't work and actually made me appreciate the 570S much more.

 

I think part of McLaren's problem is that it is a victim of it's own success in a way, where the F1 was legend, the world beating benchmark supercar with a timeless design, and then the follow up act years later was the MP4. The P1 really is their only truly standout and stunning design of the last 10 years, and the P1 GTR look cool enough to freeze time itself.

 

My 2 cents.

All I can say is revisit this in a couple of years, after the cars are released, different specs are seen, videos of the car in motion are seen, and you've seen one in the flesh. If after that exposure you feel the same way, so be it. Personally I'll reserve judgement until I've at least had a good look myself.

 

I agree with this but there is no denying that the car looks terrible from most angles, having said that I am really warming up to it what attracts me the most is its power to weight ratio, light powerful cars are just something else, anyway I have no chance buying one so there is no reason for me to be concerned with it, given the opportunity I’d most likely pull the trigger.

I think part of McLaren's problem is that it is a victim of it's own success in a way, where the F1 was legend, the world beating benchmark supercar with a timeless design, and then the follow up act years later was the MP4. The P1 really is their only truly standout and stunning design of the last 10 years, and the P1 GTR look cool enough to freeze time itself.

 

My 2 cents.

 

I completely agree with this statement.

 

Hooooleee sheeeet!

 

That black P1 is pure sex!

Hooooleee sheeeet!

 

That black P1 is pure sex!

 

I’d buy that over anything else on the market today, that’s how much looks matter to me

I’d buy that over anything else on the market today, that’s how much looks matter to me

F1 and P1 are the only road cars that moved the needle for me. That said, in order to justify the ugliness (and seeing the darker car it doesn't look awful, they should drop introducing the cars in orange, that's Lambo turf) of the Senna, it must be 110% form follows function. If it puts up the numbers with a such a limited production number it will appreciate. You also have to consider every McLaren is using variants of the same engine, similar tubs and many shared parts so there are economies of scale even though production numbers are small.

 

They sold them all, so they hit their number. Then there be an MSO variant, interesting to see if they do a "675LT" and start selling a roadster 10 days from now. It's still ugly.

Starting to grow on me in the right colors. The launch combo was terrible... I’ll reserve final judgement until seen in person hopefully at Geneva.

 

 

 

 

I’d buy that over anything else on the market today, that’s how much looks matter to me

 

You already have the best looking car on the market with a blue Aventador SV

I’d buy that over anything else on the market today, that’s how much looks matter to me

I would blow my self in front of a tv camera to get that McLaren F1. I would not even know that any other car ever existed.

Starting to grow on me in the right colors. The launch combo was terrible... I’ll reserve final judgement until seen in person hopefully at Geneva.

 

 

 

 

this is better, but the wheels, roof line etc still way off IMO.

 

now the P1 GTR is a grand slam!

You already have the best looking car on the market with a blue Aventador SV

 

Thank you my friend but you know what they say, grass is always greener

I would blow my self in front of a tv camera to get that McLaren F1. I would not even know that any other car ever existed.

 

That’s a very disturbing image, let’s all pray that you will never be offered one

Thank you my friend but you know what they say, grass is always greener

 

To busy looking at my own grass...If you need greener grass I would suggest Verde Scandal or Verde Singh :icon_mrgreen: