Anthony Bourdain Won't Be Cooking Dinner Tonight...

Exitr. You don’t seem to understand psychology.

 

You can move one and try not to let it affect you but even the most logical argument will be confounded by subconscious thoughts.

 

It took me years to figure out how some of what I suffered in my childhood affected me for life. How it influences my decisions and thoughts.

 

We are made up of our experiences good and bad. That’s all we have to go by. We have some instinct but a lot of that is suppressed because of our overgrown cerebrum.

 

That's kind of part of the point I was making though.

 

Both parties, the father and his family, find themselves subject to feelings and subconscious thoughts that are a result of outside influences in their lives. Their brains literally change in some way that is undesirable and causes them to act illogically to an outside viewer. All life has the goal of survival and thriving. No one and nothing actually wants to suffer like this.

 

If you blame a father for the emotional baggage carried by the son and mother, then you can probably just as easily blame events and people in the father's life for what pushed him to suicide. It's not like the father killed himself in spite of anyone. The father killed himself because other things no doubt hurt him so much.

 

What I'm getting at is that it just doesn't make sense to call people who commit suicide selfish anymore than it does to call the family members mental for not "getting over it". They are both different degrees of undesirable, unresolved mental issues. It's quite literally the result of the physics of your brain that develop due to little fault of your own. Something happens and your brain just kind of screws up and forms connections that are more harmful than not.

 

So the reality, in my opinion, is that there are no selfish people in suicide and there is no one to blame for anything in cases like this. A person's brain is literally screwed up. You can't really hold that against them.

That's kind of part of the point I was making though.

 

Both parties, the father and his family, find themselves subject to feelings and subconscious thoughts that are a result of outside influences in their lives. Their brains literally change in some way that is undesirable and causes them to act illogically to an outside viewer. All life has the goal of survival and thriving. No one and nothing actually wants to suffer like this.

 

If you blame a father for the emotional baggage carried by the son and mother, then you can probably just as easily blame events and people in the father's life for what pushed him to suicide. It's not like the father killed himself in spite of anyone. The father killed himself because other things no doubt hurt him so much.

 

What I'm getting at is that it just doesn't make sense to call people who commit suicide selfish anymore than it does to call the family members mental for not "getting over it". They are both different degrees of undesirable, unresolved mental issues. It's quite literally the result of the physics of your brain that develop due to little fault of your own. Something happens and your brain just kind of screws up and forms connections that are more harmful than not.

 

So the reality, in my opinion, is that there are no selfish people in suicide and there is no one to blame for anything in cases like this. A person's brain is literally screwed up. You can't really hold that against them.

 

 

So you think people who have mental issues can not be capable of being selfish? That somehow being crazy gives you a perpetual excuse for being selfish therefore you can never be selfish?

 

You sound to me like the guy who doesn’t have any kids trying to give advice on parenting, or Wheels telling us he’s a master bricklayer just because he finished his book on brick laying without actually touching a brick in his entire life.

 

When certain events impact your life, your understanding of such events will be different and might shape you in different ways, it’s not that black and white it is a very complex issue we are attempting to discuss and I don’t think many of us are qualified.

I did. I was 39 before I made the decision. Almost everybody I consider to be a close friend didn’t have kids until they were in mid 30’s or later. And a number chose not too.

 

Not thinking about kids. How could that go wrong?

 

100% with you. I consider myself reasonably grounded but having kids scares the shit out of me. It's a burden of responsibility I can't even fathom. Not the ability to get by, but to raise them in a way I expect of myself. I'm sure we're (my wife and I) way over thinking it, and she would be a fantastic mother, but it's still scary as shit.

 

How some people crap out a litter, don't have a pot to piss in, and carry on is beyond my comprehension.

 

I'm 37 btw.

 

Most of the successful people I know had kids later in life. Hell look around any affluent neighborhood and the average age of parents is way up.

100% with you. I consider myself reasonably grounded but having kids scares the shit out of me. It's a burden of responsibility I can't even fathom. Not the ability to get by, but to raise them in a way I expect of myself. I'm sure we're (my wife and I) way over thinking it, and she would be a fantastic mother, but it's still scary as shit.

 

How some people crap out a litter, don't have a pot to piss in, and carry on is beyond my comprehension.

 

I'm 37 btw.

 

Most of the successful people I know had kids later in life. Hell look around any affluent neighborhood and the average age of parents is way up.

 

Kids are no joke. I'm 33 with no plans for them at this point...It's a huge responsibility and a lifetime commitment. I think some people are meant for it and others are not. I certainly think it's something that everyone should spend a lot of thought on, though I know some people who've just dove in, dare I say recklessly.

Kids are no joke. I'm 33 with no plans for them at this point...It's a huge responsibility and a lifetime commitment. I think some people are meant for it and others are not. I certainly think it's something that everyone should spend a lot of thought on, though I know some people who've just dove in, dare I say recklessly.

 

If parenting was taken seriously , society would not be where it is today . Some people should never have kids , it is a lifetime commitment , not a flavour of the moment

100% with you. I consider myself reasonably grounded but having kids scares the shit out of me. It's a burden of responsibility I can't even fathom. Not the ability to get by, but to raise them in a way I expect of myself. I'm sure we're (my wife and I) way over thinking it, and she would be a fantastic mother, but it's still scary as shit.

 

How some people crap out a litter, don't have a pot to piss in, and carry on is beyond my comprehension.

 

I'm 37 btw.

 

Most of the successful people I know had kids later in life. Hell look around any affluent neighborhood and the average age of parents is way up.

 

Fuk man. I just turned 30 and I'm starting to think about the idea, but it scares me. Same feelings as you.

 

Fuk man. I just turned 30 and I'm starting to think about the idea, but it scares me. Same feelings as you.

 

 

that's the exact vid I was thinking about after I read emanon's post LOL

100% with you. I consider myself reasonably grounded but having kids scares the shit out of me. It's a burden of responsibility I can't even fathom. Not the ability to get by, but to raise them in a way I expect of myself. I'm sure we're (my wife and I) way over thinking it, and she would be a fantastic mother, but it's still scary as shit.

 

How some people crap out a litter, don't have a pot to piss in, and carry on is beyond my comprehension.

 

I'm 37 btw.

 

Most of the successful people I know had kids later in life. Hell look around any affluent neighborhood and the average age of parents is way up.

 

Go for it, you are a switched on guy and you will be absolutely fine, kids are the best thing that ever happened to me and I was so against having them than now when I think back I feel like such a fool!

 

I do actually regret for not having them earlier in my life, 18 to 20 year old kids when you are early 40s just means you are off the hook when you can still kick around LOL

Nature has undoubtedly proved you wrong. Most species do not make lifetime commitments to their children. It's actually a more recent part of history that parents are taking care of their children longer and longer. It wasn't long ago that you'd be getting married and having kids as soon as you could.

 

Regardless of how Bourdain's child feels now, assuming she also doesn't have a history of depression and suicidal thoughts, then I'd feel quite comfortable predicting that his daughter will enjoy a long, happy life of wealth that he probably left her. I'm sure she is happier to have been brought into this world with some pain now rather than not have been conceived at all. It's not like her life has been, is, or logically will be filled with pain and suffering.

 

Kinsella, you mentioned your friend and his mother and whether they are the victims rather than the father.

 

The reality is that neither the person who killed themselves or the family are victims, or that they both are victims of themselves. There is no villain in this situation other than themselves. The person who died suffered from a mental problem that led to him taking his own life. The child and mother suffer from mental problems of not being able to just move on and get over it. They all are subject to their minds and the problems within. If 30 years later someone was still effected by it, I'd say they have pretty bad mental problems of their own as well.

 

Well when your dad blows his head off, we'll see how you deal with it. My friend and his mum are wonderful people, two of the most interesting and empathic people I know. They carry the scars and have made the most of it. Their experience has provided enlightenment to me (and many others).

 

Humans aren't most species, and I can tell you first hand when your kid walks out the door at 18, it's not over. It's never over. Kids aren't a mortgage....when you pay it off your done.

100% with you. I consider myself reasonably grounded but having kids scares the shit out of me. It's a burden of responsibility I can't even fathom. Not the ability to get by, but to raise them in a way I expect of myself. I'm sure we're (my wife and I) way over thinking it, and she would be a fantastic mother, but it's still scary as shit.

 

How some people crap out a litter, don't have a pot to piss in, and carry on is beyond my comprehension.

 

I'm 37 btw.

 

Most of the successful people I know had kids later in life. Hell look around any affluent neighborhood and the average age of parents is way up.

 

 

I was fortunate, my wife is seven years younger and had a career (still does). There was no pressure until it felt right for both of us. I have friends whose wives are similar ages or older than their spouses and had major problems conceiving. Its been very expensive and convoluted for them. So plan accordingly....

 

My son (9) assembled an IKEA 6 drawer cabinet and mounted it to the wall of his bedroom today basically on his own. I couldn't have been prouder. Don't miss out. I think you will do just fine based on your expectations of yourself.

 

 

 

So you think people who have mental issues can not be capable of being selfish? That somehow being crazy gives you a perpetual excuse for being selfish therefore you can never be selfish?

 

You sound to me like the guy who doesn’t have any kids trying to give advice on parenting, or Wheels telling us he’s a master bricklayer just because he finished his book on brick laying without actually touching a brick in his entire life.

 

When certain events impact your life, your understanding of such events will be different and might shape you in different ways, it’s not that black and white it is a very complex issue we are attempting to discuss and I don’t think many of us are qualified.

 

I am beyond convinced that how we grew up as young kids/teens, and how we were parented, affects who we are today for better or worse in ways that are very hard to change.

 

That stuff is nearly as powerful as genes, IMHO.

I am beyond convinced that how we grew up as young kids/teens, and how we were parented, affects who we are today for better or worse.

 

That stuff is nearly as powerful as genes, IMHO.

 

Totally agree. A hard life will motivate you, you just need to take a moment to smell the roses and take some time for introspection.

I am beyond convinced that how we grew up as young kids/teens, and how we were parented, affects who we are today for better or worse.

 

That stuff is nearly as powerful as genes, IMHO.

 

I agree, except on parenting, many kids take to it differently, you can only do the best you can, the rest is always a gamble.

 

One thing I can say is, thanks God my parents didn't have second thoughts about having me

2 sides of the same coin and the results are so different.

So you think people who have mental issues can not be capable of being selfish? That somehow being crazy gives you a perpetual excuse for being selfish therefore you can never be selfish?

 

You sound to me like the guy who doesn’t have any kids trying to give advice on parenting, or Wheels telling us he’s a master bricklayer just because he finished his book on brick laying without actually touching a brick in his entire life.

 

When certain events impact your life, your understanding of such events will be different and might shape you in different ways, it’s not that black and white it is a very complex issue we are attempting to discuss and I don’t think many of us are qualified.

 

I didn't say that, but I absolutely think that having mental issues can give someone an excuse for something that others may perceive as selfishness.

 

There is an autistic(?) person who lives down the street from my parents. I don't know exactly what's wrong, maybe it's not even academically autism, but he's obviously not "normal". He talks to himself, paces around repetitively in a short stretch of the street, lives alone but doesn't go anywhere, has family bring him groceries. He's lived there for decades now and the only thing that has changed as that he lost weight. In my opinion, this man gets a free pass for just about everything. If he committed a murder, I'd just say "He had mental problems that were underestimate, he belongs in a clinic, not a prison."

 

The very fact that we have places for people with mental issues who are dangers to themselves or others is evidence that in general we accept these deficiencies as something more like a disease that the person isn't really responsible for in the same way you or I would be.

 

Suicide is somewhat unique. You don't directly harm anyone else, it's not done out of malice or spite. I think it's incorrect to discount someone's pain and mental problems to the point at which you fault them as you would a more "sane" person. I believe we are discussing selfishness as a conscious fault that could be avoided and rationalized against. Without being able to step inside their mind, how could we really make such judgments?

 

I'm not sure how many people here have ever experienced depression themselves or experienced it with their family, but wow, it's not easy. It makes no sense and you often can even see the irrationality of it, but you can't shake it. You just feel immense pain and sadness, and you want it to stop, and it just doesn't and you don't know why. The vast majority of people never get anywhere near suicide, but I can only imagine how deep that struggle must be to want to commit suicide. I have experience depression, a depression that never led me anywhere near even a thought of suicide, but the struggle was immense. To get to the point of taking one's life... It's a massive breakdown of the mind in my opinion and we shouldn't hold anything against these people.

 

So regarding a father, a child, a wife... it's correct to say there are "mental" issues, but it's incorrect to portray the actions of those people in such a way that it's selfish. It's not a child's fault for being depressed after their father's death, it's not a mother's fault for being unable to remarry, it's not a father's fault for being unable to cope. Something snaps, new pathways are formed... the mind undergoes a change, for better or worse.

 

I absolutely agree that probably no one here is actually qualified to give anything other than a "uneducated" opinion, but some here definitely have experienced depression themselves or in people close to them. It's often anything but selfish in my experience. It's just a sad thing, all around, for everyone who cares. Depression can be hard to really understand and connect with without having experienced it yourself, and even then it can still be hard to connect with. Some people's problems seem so trivial, but that's just not how it works in their mind and it's not really their fault. Anthony Bourdain had a daughter, was highly respected, was no doubt quite successful and wealthy, and from what I can tell had one of the best careers on Earth -- traveling around and eating. It's very hard to see why he killed himself, but I feel comfortable in saying he was not of sound mind and just made a mistake because of it.

Suicide is a touchy subject, and I can see both sides of the coin; those who think it's selfish and those who think there is nothing selfish about it ( due to mental disorders etc..)

 

Here is my experience, my father commited suicide when I was 15, it was definatelly a shocking experince for everyone in the family, you sometimes hear it happening to other people but never expect that it could happen to you, I was too young to understand the situation at the time.

 

I had a hard time forgiving my dad for what happened, but as I started getting older and understanding the situation better and what led to the situation I forgave him, and started focusing on the great times we had together.

 

Today I am a grown up man, I am doing well and I am happy, so is my sister who was much younger than me when it happened.

 

We do miss my dad, but as of today there is no resentment in my family to the suicide, whenever he is brought up its the positive things and the good times.

 

Two things I got from this situation were, in my case, appreciate my family even more and always ask people how they really are, you rarely know how people are really doing.

 

This is my experience, and I don't expect everyone to deal with a situation like this the same way as I did.

 

Suicide is a touchy subject, and I can see both sides of the coin; those who think it's selfish and those who think there is nothing selfish about it ( due to mental disorders etc..)

 

Here is my experience, my father commited suicide when I was 15, it was definatelly a shocking experince for everyone in the family, you sometimes hear it happening to other people but never expect that it could happen to you, I was too young to understand the situation at the time.

 

I had a hard time forgiving my dad for what happened, but as I started getting older and understanding the situation better and what led to the situation I forgave him, and started focusing on the great times we had together.

 

Today I am a grown up man, I am doing well and I am happy, so is my sister who was much younger than me when it happened.

 

We do miss my dad, but as of today there is no resentment in my family to the suicide, whenever he is brought up its the positive things and the good times.

 

Two things I got from this situation were, in my case, appreciate my family even more and always ask people how they really are, you rarely know how people are really doing.

 

This is my experience, and I don't expect everyone to deal with a situation like this the same way as I did.

 

 

Terribly sorry to hear about your father’s untimely passing

 

 

I agree, except on parenting, many kids take to it differently, you can only do the best you can, the rest is always a gamble.

 

One thing I can say is, thanks God my parents didn't have second thoughts about having me

 

I agree too. Even the best parents can have rotten kids.