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New 2022 Lamborghini Aventador hybrid V12


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I have said it before in this thread - I really like the Sian. For me it is the best looking car Lamborghini have put out in a long time.

The recent article and interview with Maurizio Reggiani confirms that the Aventador replacement won't have the super capacitor technology but will be a battery hybrid with dual clutch. This reasoning is solid. Super capacitors give a burst of power yes, but no range. It may well turn out that the Sian will be the only car to have this tech making it even more exclusive and desirable.

The LSMS tech is clever but really no more than an elegant application of basic physics. Things heat up and expand, cool and contract. This is essentially how your kettle switches off automatically when it reaches boiling point. For me the clever part is that they have translated this basic law of nature in to a functional enhancement. It was the same with ALA. Basic fluid dynamics physics with pressure being a function of the fluids speed. The clever part was how they came up with a way of applying it to improve the car. Recently Lamborghini have become really good at translating universally known basic laws in to performance and functional benefits.

 

I am really hopeful that they continue down this innovative technology path. This will differentiate them from the rest of the pack. I think / hope the next big leap will come in materials technology with lighter, stronger and stiffer materials. Or memory materials.  It wouldn't surprise me to see Lamborghini be the first to use graphene  or carbon nano tubes. Wouldn't that be something.

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2 hours ago, darth sidious said:

I have said it before in this thread - I really like the Sian. For me it is the best looking car Lamborghini have put out in a long time.

The recent article and interview with Maurizio Reggiani confirms that the Aventador replacement won't have the super capacitor technology but will be a battery hybrid with dual clutch. This reasoning is solid. Super capacitors give a burst of power yes, but no range. It may well turn out that the Sian will be the only car to have this tech making it even more exclusive and desirable.

The LSMS tech is clever but really no more than an elegant application of basic physics. Things heat up and expand, cool and contract. This is essentially how your kettle switches off automatically when it reaches boiling point. For me the clever part is that they have translated this basic law of nature in to a functional enhancement. It was the same with ALA. Basic fluid dynamics physics with pressure being a function of the fluids speed. The clever part was how they came up with a way of applying it to improve the car. Recently Lamborghini have become really good at translating universally known basic laws in to performance and functional benefits.

 

I am really hopeful that they continue down this innovative technology path. This will differentiate them from the rest of the pack. I think / hope the next big leap will come in materials technology with lighter, stronger and stiffer materials. Or memory materials.  It wouldn't surprise me to see Lamborghini be the first to use graphene  or carbon nano tubes. Wouldn't that be something.

Graphene Carbon Nano - do you work with these products ... 

Guessing Terzo premise is based on or similar. 

Sian ALA LSMS - the Lamborghini brand is taking strides no one saw coming. 

There is no need for more hp - need less weight with technology inserted into the car not an added component to the car.

 

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3 hours ago, darth sidious said:

I have said it before in this thread - I really like the Sian. For me it is the best looking car Lamborghini have put out in a long time.

The recent article and interview with Maurizio Reggiani confirms that the Aventador replacement won't have the super capacitor technology but will be a battery hybrid with dual clutch. This reasoning is solid. Super capacitors give a burst of power yes, but no range. It may well turn out that the Sian will be the only car to have this tech making it even more exclusive and desirable.

The LSMS tech is clever but really no more than an elegant application of basic physics. Things heat up and expand, cool and contract. This is essentially how your kettle switches off automatically when it reaches boiling point. For me the clever part is that they have translated this basic law of nature in to a functional enhancement. It was the same with ALA. Basic fluid dynamics physics with pressure being a function of the fluids speed. The clever part was how they came up with a way of applying it to improve the car. Recently Lamborghini have become really good at translating universally known basic laws in to performance and functional benefits.

 

I am really hopeful that they continue down this innovative technology path. This will differentiate them from the rest of the pack. I think / hope the next big leap will come in materials technology with lighter, stronger and stiffer materials. Or memory materials.  It wouldn't surprise me to see Lamborghini be the first to use graphene  or carbon nano tubes. Wouldn't that be something.

It's a packaging issue why the Sian isn't a traditional hybrid, capacitors are small. Its stuck with an Aventador platform and all the homologation that goes along with it. I really like the design too. Best since the Sesto,

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7 hours ago, sl55 said:

Lamborghini Calgary spec'ing out a Sian at HQ...

 

 

This one shows different wheels ... any info on that? Are there different wheel options available ?

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9 hours ago, LamboCARS said:

This one shows different wheels ... any info on that? Are there different wheel options available ?

Yes - looks like this spec has matching roof and rear matte with gloss paint. 

Purple spec chocolate interior is fantastic. 

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11 hours ago, Nuvolari612 said:

Yes - looks like this spec has matching roof and rear matte with gloss paint. 

Purple spec chocolate interior is fantastic. 

Thanks, I love that color combo. The car is stunning. It's all thanks to Lambocars. 

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On 9/18/2019 at 7:08 PM, kinnsella said:

It's a packaging issue why the Sian isn't a traditional hybrid, capacitors are small. Its stuck with an Aventador platform and all the homologation that goes along with it. I really like the design too. Best since the Sesto,

There is a reason why other major manufacturer hasn't touched super capacitors, you can't hold the energy for too long and it can't store large amount of energy either.  Yes it's light but when you are working with 30hp, the benefit you get from it is limited too.  Aventador carbon tub can't accommodate any lithium battery pack, so that's why Lamborghini used capacitor in the interim.  Next generation Lambo will have the proper gearbox with proper hybrid technology.  All we can hope is that it won't gain too much weight because as of now, the Aventador is really heavy.   This begs the question, just how much weight does the Aventador tub weigh? Too much resin used in that RTM tub perhaps? At 35000 NM of torsional stiffness, it's significantly less than the other carbon tubs out there.  

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5 hours ago, Unotaz said:

There is a reason why other major manufacturer hasn't touched super capacitors, you can't hold the energy for too long and it can't store large amount of energy either.  Yes it's light but when you are working with 30hp, the benefit you get from it is limited too.  Aventador carbon tub can't accommodate any lithium battery pack, so that's why Lamborghini used capacitor in the interim.  Next generation Lambo will have the proper gearbox with proper hybrid technology.  All we can hope is that it won't gain too much weight because as of now, the Aventador is really heavy.   This begs the question, just how much weight does the Aventador tub weigh? Too much resin used in that RTM tub perhaps? At 35000 NM of torsional stiffness, it's significantly less than the other carbon tubs out there.  

SF90 - 3460 30 pounds lighter than ThethetheFerrari and the SF90 track version sheds 66 pounds don't recall it's name. 

McLaren P1 - 3411 Speedtail 3150 the new GT 3375

Porsche 918 - 3790 GT3RS 3240

Jesko - 3171 

SVJ - 3500 

Huracan V10 next V8TT will compete in the category of proper - a word IMO Lamborghini buyers especially V12 guys do not want to hear. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Nuvolari612 said:

SF90 - 3460 30 pounds lighter than ThethetheFerrari and the SF90 track version sheds 66 pounds don't recall it's name. 

McLaren P1 - 3411 Speedtail 3150 the new GT 3375

Porsche 918 - 3790 GT3RS 3240

Jesko - 3171 

SVJ - 3500 

Huracan V10 next V8TT will compete in the category of proper - a word IMO Lamborghini buyers especially V12 guys do not want to hear. 

Have you put an SVJ on scales to verify that number? I have a very hard time believing it weighs 3500 pounds.

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3 hours ago, Nuvolari612 said:

Forum for some reason limits response time - 

Next gen guessing will be V12 Battery 3700+ weight which isn't bad if it can run mid 6:30 ring time with the track focussed edition. 

SVJ left off at 6:44 - no one would have guessed that it would do under 6:55 given the SV did under 7 heavily questioned. 

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, m3jasper said:

Have you put an SVJ on scales to verify that number? I have a very hard time believing it weighs 3500 pounds.

These aren't race cars - they all have their own criteria before print. 

Speedtail isn't even road legal and look at it's weight over Senna - are these cars really getting better with hybrid IMO the only one is the Sian. 

 

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Well this is interesting...

 

Quote

 

Lamborghini Sian doesn't preview Aventador, says design boss

The 808bhp Sián FKP 37 unveiled at the Frankfurt motor show won’t continue Lamborghini’s tradition of previewing the design of its future models with limited-edition cars.

“There was a certain closeness of design between the Reventon and the Aventador. This is exactly what I don’t want to have. There will not be this language in the new Aventador,” Lamborghini design boss Mitja Borkert told Autocar on the sidelines of the Frankfurt show.

Asked whether the Sián will influence the styling of any model coming out during the 2020s, the designer answered: “That’s a clear no.”

The Sián consequently has to stand on its own on a short branch of the ever-growing Lamborghini family tree. When Borkert and his team started the project, they drew inspiration from a wide variety of sources ranging from high-performance motorcycles to the various cars that competed in endurance racing events during the 1960s and the 1970s.

Borkert also revealed some of Lamborghini’s recent limited-edition cars shaped the Sián’s design by pushing his team of stylists in a completely different direction.

“After Veneno, after all these cars, I wanted to have integrated aerodynamics. I didn’t want another wing car with a spoiler sticking out. I wanted to have something where aerodynamic efficiency and design meet in something completely new,” he explained. The carbonfibre winglets above the rear lights are the exception to the rule. The rest of the car is an exercise in concealed aerodynamism.

Lamborghini plans to make only 63 examples of the petrol-electric Sián. Each one found a home well before the model made its public debut in Frankfurt because potential customers were shown the car behind closed doors, a common practice on this echelon of the automotive industry.

Keeping production relatively low will allow the company to integrate new technologies into the manufacturing process; the air vents are notably 3D-printed. Buyers will also be invited to work directly with Borkert to customise nearly every visual aspect of their car, including the colour of the body, wheels and upholstery.

“We wanted to create a masterpiece,” he told us, adding he envisioned the Sián as a blank slate for customers. “Each and every car will look completely different; this is my promise.”

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-frankfurt-motor-show/lamborghini-sian-doesnt-preview-aventador-says-design-boss

 

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On 9/20/2019 at 1:31 PM, Nuvolari612 said:

SF90 - 3460 30 pounds lighter than ThethetheFerrari and the SF90 track version sheds 66 pounds don't recall it's name. 

McLaren P1 - 3411 Speedtail 3150 the new GT 3375

Porsche 918 - 3790 GT3RS 3240

Jesko - 3171 

SVJ - 3500 

Huracan V10 next V8TT will compete in the category of proper - a word IMO Lamborghini buyers especially V12 guys do not want to hear. 

 

 

Those weight claims are dubious, in my opinion. An SF90 is lighter than a ThethetheFerrari? Sure, a V12 isn't exactly light and battery technology has improved, but the ThethetheFerrari is complete composite construction with fixed seats and in general a very sparse interior. The ThethetheFerrari battery capacity is more than 3x less than the SF90 with 2.3 kWh to 7.9 kWh. Batteries have improved, but have they improved so much as to negate the additional capacity? I could imagine that other power electronics have improved as well and have less weight in wiring.

I don't know the weights of the V12 vs the V8, but I find it unlikely that the SF90 could weigh anything near the ThethetheFerrari, and especially not 30 lbs less with 3x the kWh.

I do not know what an SVJ weighs, but the Aventador is notoriously heavy and a standard Aventador is already a carbon monocoque and carbon body panels, I believe. So if the weight savings cannot come from the body or chassis, it would have to come from less amenities like leather, stereo, glass, maybe some lighter wheels. It's difficult to imagine an SVJ is much less than 3800 lbs. I cannot imagine it being anywhere near 3500 pounds when you consider what other cars are probably around that weight.

It's unfortunate that so few magazines actually weigh the cars. The weights provided by manufacturers rarely can be relied upon due to no formal standard of measurement and the lengths they go to in order to appear light. Even McLaren, a company who has nothing to be ashamed of with regards to weight, has done things like including the removal of air conditioning. And to be frank, a car without air conditioning is not a complete car. 

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On 9/19/2019 at 12:32 AM, darth sidious said:

I have said it before in this thread - I really like the Sian. For me it is the best looking car Lamborghini have put out in a long time.

The recent article and interview with Maurizio Reggiani confirms that the Aventador replacement won't have the super capacitor technology but will be a battery hybrid with dual clutch. This reasoning is solid. Super capacitors give a burst of power yes, but no range. It may well turn out that the Sian will be the only car to have this tech making it even more exclusive and desirable.

The LSMS tech is clever but really no more than an elegant application of basic physics. Things heat up and expand, cool and contract. This is essentially how your kettle switches off automatically when it reaches boiling point. For me the clever part is that they have translated this basic law of nature in to a functional enhancement. It was the same with ALA. Basic fluid dynamics physics with pressure being a function of the fluids speed. The clever part was how they came up with a way of applying it to improve the car. Recently Lamborghini have become really good at translating universally known basic laws in to performance and functional benefits.

 

I am really hopeful that they continue down this innovative technology path. This will differentiate them from the rest of the pack. I think / hope the next big leap will come in materials technology with lighter, stronger and stiffer materials. Or memory materials.  It wouldn't surprise me to see Lamborghini be the first to use graphene  or carbon nano tubes. Wouldn't that be something.

 

I agree, that "kettle" spring contraption is quite nifty. It is likely unnecessary and an over-engineered solution, but I'll gladly file that under 'Cool'.

One thing I liked hearing is that they want to move away from large fixed aerodynamic components. I think this is very important going forward because there really is very little indication that you need such components on a road car that is well engineered. The Senna is simply goofy in my eyes. Yes it's functional, but it's too much.

There are a lot of extremely high performant cars that are beyond Lamborghini while still being sleek, refined, and at times understated. The 720S and 488 Pista are both near the peak of modern exotic performance in series production and still rather reserved. I'd like to see Lamborghini get models like the standard Aventador and Huracan to perform like the Performante and SV. This should be possible. I really do like the Huracan Evo's refesh and I'd love to find out it's a Performante in a tux.

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1 hour ago, exitr said:

 

Those weight claims are dubious, in my opinion. An SF90 is lighter than a ThethetheFerrari? Sure, a V12 isn't exactly light and battery technology has improved, but the ThethetheFerrari is complete composite construction with fixed seats and in general a very sparse interior. The ThethetheFerrari battery capacity is more than 3x less than the SF90 with 2.3 kWh to 7.9 kWh. Batteries have improved, but have they improved so much as to negate the additional capacity? I could imagine that other power electronics have improved as well and have less weight in wiring.

I don't know the weights of the V12 vs the V8, but I find it unlikely that the SF90 could weigh anything near the ThethetheFerrari, and especially not 30 lbs less with 3x the kWh.

I do not know what an SVJ weighs, but the Aventador is notoriously heavy and a standard Aventador is already a carbon monocoque and carbon body panels, I believe. So if the weight savings cannot come from the body or chassis, it would have to come from less amenities like leather, stereo, glass, maybe some lighter wheels. It's difficult to imagine an SVJ is much less than 3800 lbs. I cannot imagine it being anywhere near 3500 pounds when you consider what other cars are probably around that weight.

It's unfortunate that so few magazines actually weigh the cars. The weights provided by manufacturers rarely can be relied upon due to no formal standard of measurement and the lengths they go to in order to appear light. Even McLaren, a company who has nothing to be ashamed of with regards to weight, has done things like including the removal of air conditioning. And to be frank, a car without air conditioning is not a complete car. 

SVJ - lift off engine bay exhaust ALA and other items must have done something - SV 7min to SVJ  6:45 at the Ring. 

Shaving 15 seconds same frame chasis small bump in hp rws - agree 300 pounds is a lot but whatever it was did the job and others who went hyper did not. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Nuvolari612 said:

SVJ - lift off engine bay exhaust ALA and other items must have done something - SV 7min to SVJ  6:45 at the Ring. 

Shaving 15 seconds same frame chasis small bump in hp rws - agree 300 pounds is a lot but whatever it was did the job and others who went hyper did not. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The other item that I read and was told was the tires that made a huge difference.

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51 minutes ago, GT Venom said:

The other item that I read and was told was the tires that made a huge difference.

Pzero corsa - not sure how they are different from SV Ring tire but let's deduct 3-4 seconds. 

People always talk about SV being heavy - I disagree and think it's the single clutch feel.  Have a 16M and Speciale and the weight is minimal guessing 100 lb.s but the dual clutch makes the car feel light but the reality is - it's not. 

SVJ front wheels can iterally can be lifted off the ground at take off - the car is a beast. 

 

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, LamboCARS said:

I actually really like something like this ... a gradient paintjob:

 

would be nice to add to the configurator ... or is it too much?

Go for it - received this with seat belts and fabrics.

So many choices! 

IMG_2458.jpg

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On 9/14/2019 at 9:10 AM, Destructo said:

 

The Urus is a collection of shared parts, it may be a new vehicle, but it shares a platform with the Q7, the Bentley and Rolls SUV's. It's a high-performance Audi with a Lamborghini body. Nothing wrong with that, but let's not pretend it's something it's not. 

I see the Porsche from the front, Audi in the rear. It irks me a little.

On 9/14/2019 at 5:41 PM, Allan-Herbie said:

Urus is definitely selling. Only car I see coming and going at the dealers. See them all over.  Personally Im a big fan of them.  On the flip side you never see any Bentayga or Cullinan. 

I see both quite often to where the Bentayga just seems to blend in these days.

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"We are a game-changer and a provocateur," Lamborghini's CTO, Maurizio Reggiani told Engadget. The automaker has a long history of making waves with traffic-stopping designs and more recently, innovative tech. At last week's Frankfurt Motor Show, the Italian company unveiled its Sian hybrid supercar. But it ditched the traditional battery pack in favor of a supercapacitor to power an electric motor, which is exactly what you would expect from the Italian company.

Typically a hybrid uses a lithium-ion battery pack to store energy. Then when needed, it transfers an electrical current to a motor (or motors) to either help the gas-powered engine or take over propulsion entirely. It's a recipe that has successfully improved gas mileage and sold over six millions of Toyota Prius.

 

"It's too easy to follow," Reggiani said. "If you want to move for the first time in electrification you must guarantee that the implementation will not destroy the DNA of a car and brand." With that in mind, the automaker went with a supercapacitor instead of a battery.

According to Reggiani, the supercapacitor offers up three times the power of a battery pack from the same weight and packaging. Plus, it stores and discharges energy much quicker. The spent power can be fully regenerated very quickly during normal braking.

Reggiani explained that this could be particularly useful while cornering. Going into a corner, the driver applies the brakes and replenishes any spent energy. Then, as the driver accelerates out of the corner, all the available power is there for acceleration. Then as the driver brakes for the next curve, the process starts all over again.

Plus, the supercapacitor doesn't have to cool down like traditional battery, it's just ready to go at all times -- which is exactly what Lamborghini owners want.

The output of the 48volt motor installed into the gearbox is 34 horsepower which brings the total power output of the V12 Sian to 819 horsepower. While 34 horsepower doesn't seem like much, it means the vehicle can do zero to 62 miles per hour in under 2.8 seconds. That's Tesla Model S Performance and Porsche Taycan levels of fast.

But there are other benefits. The electric motor reduces the torque hits of the gears shifting. You know those momentary losses -- then explosions of power -- you feel in the car as it speeds up, that's the vehicle going through its gears. Lamborghini's hybrid system reduces those so it's a smooth transition up the driver's desired speed.

That results is additional traction over a traditional gas engine since the tires are not tasked with handling torque hits while accelerating. That means the contact patches (the part of the tires touching the road) are under less stress and the rubber is less likely to break free from the asphalt.

Reggiani said that the traction increase is 10 percent between gear shifts while going from first to fifth gear and a 20 percent increase between sixth and seventh gear. The byproduct is better grip while accelerating out of those corners thanks to the supercapacitor.

Reggiani does note that the supercapacitor, while great for the Lamborghini in terms of speed, isn't so hot for emissions or mileage. For that, he concedes that right now traditional battery packs are the way to go.

Plus, we shouldn't expect to see a supercapacitor in the automaker's Huracan model anytime soon. Supercapacitors and battery packs won't make their way into the existing lineup, instead Lamborghini will release new electrified models in the future. To make this a reality the company has invested in two laboratories to research both supercapacitors and battery packs.

For now, the Sian hybrid is limited to 63 vehicles. So it's a very exclusive coming-out party for Lamborghini's electrification plans. Reggiani is ready to push the technological limits of cars while still staying true to the automaker's brand.

"It's important that from a technical point of view, we are able to prove that there are different possibilities. We can do something completely different where nobody investigated before. This is our way to be Lamborghini."

Lamborghini's nimbleness, willingness to experiment, and its dedicated (and very rich) fan base have given rise to a host of technologies that may or may not make its way into passenger vehicles the rest of us can afford. Other automakers need to create cars that'll sell hundreds of thousands and that limits their ability to explore new technologies on the road with actual customers. Today's supercar supercapacitor could find a home in tomorrow's pickup truck, towing a horse trailer. The research has to start somewhere, even in the car that looks like the Batmobile.


 

https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/18/lamborghini-sian-hybrid-technology-interview/

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17 hours ago, sl55 said:

Sounds like battery with new hybrid in Lambo's for next gen. 

Tesla S does 0 - 60 2.4 hope  the Sian is better plus under 10 in the 1/4. 

Be great to see a serious run at a famous track.  

Hybrids to date haven't shown any improvement outside a straight line which means the added weight is too much for tires brakes etc. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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