Gaining headroom in a Murciélago

The Murciélago has been my poster car since I was a kid. I went to check out a pre LP car on the weekend which is up for sale, but there was just one problem. At ~6’5 I really struggled to fit in the car, and with a helmet on I physically wouldn’t be able to get in.

 

Has anyone had experience gaining headroom in a Murci? Maybe remove the padding from the current seat, replace the stock seat with a lower profile racing seat, remove the headliner, bolt the seat to the floor? How many inches could i expect to gain? I’ve searched the net and rang several Lamborghini service departments and the only info I gained was that, several years ago, Lambo Melbourne sent a Murci away to have the chassis cut into to drop the seat lower..

 

Is it time to give up on the Murciélago dream?

If I recall correctly, several years ago Roy Cats owned and sold a Murcielago that had previously been owned by a basketball player.  Custom lower seat rails created more head room.  You are not going to fit with a helmet.  I'm 6'2" and while I've driven my Murci with a helmet - very uncomfortable.  Ed Bolian is your height or taller.  He has owned several Murci's.  Maybe he will chime in.  

If you take the seat out of the Murci, what you basically have left is a fully functional seat (that isn't well padded) with a ton of room. The seatbelts will work the same,  you have a seat back, etc. It's not a like a 4 door car where the car is useless without a seat.

You really need to just buy the car, then see how much extra room you have without a seat, and then find a seat that will fit in that extra space. For 6'5" with a helmet, it will probably be something along the lines of a racing shell type seat, but you can definitely fit with right seat. If you were over 7 feet tall, I would say to just stick some foam pads to the bottom and back of the tub and call it a day.

I tried gaining headroom with the standard LP640 seats. I managed to get about 4mm by grinding down the mounts in the chassis & I still can't drive it with a helmet on. I am going to be fitting bucket seats, but this is an extremely custom job that requires multiple chassis & interior parts modifying which most won't be comfortable. It is possible though. 

If you want to see what a 6'3 tall person looks like driving an LP640 with no seat in it, I move mine at the beginning of this video with no seat. Most people wouldn't realise there's no seat in it.

 

6 hours ago, pmdw1 said:

I am going to be fitting bucket seats, but this is an extremely custom job that requires multiple chassis & interior parts modifying which most won't be comfortable.

Amazing project, dude! Congrats on the progress where others have failed -- namely egear to gated.

What exactly about your project of adding a bucket seat makes it an extremely custom job? The factory seat is just held in with 4 bolts, so if someone wants to replace the seat with a racing shell, they either need to find a way to mount it to the factory holes or make new holes. The seat is not part of the seat belt assembly, which makes the whole thing much easier than other cars.

A while back, I had a a 90's Esprit and they had very little room. On that car, I took off the seat rail and drilled new holes in the floorboard to mount the seat directly to the floor. That same sort of thing can be done with the Murci with the stock seat or a replacement.

Thanks man.

On the Murcie the backwards gearbox means the tunnel is widest where the widest part of a bucket seat fits. I've offered up 4 different styles & sizes & the only ones that will fit are a skeleton carbon seat which I don't really want. I want Recaro SPG or Pole Position in there, so to get the seat where I need it to be inline with the steering I'm going to have to cut the tunnel trim piece at the very least, and possibly modify the tunnel itself. I'll only do it if it can't be solved by modifying the seat, but driving position is so important to me I'll do whatever it takes. I'm really really fussy with it & the Murcie standard seat position is terrible for someone of my height.

1 hour ago, pmdw1 said:

Thanks man.

On the Murcie the backwards gearbox means the tunnel is widest where the widest part of a bucket seat fits. I've offered up 4 different styles & sizes & the only ones that will fit are a skeleton carbon seat which I don't really want. I want Recaro SPG or Pole Position in there, so to get the seat where I need it to be inline with the steering I'm going to have to cut the tunnel trim piece at the very least, and possibly modify the tunnel itself. I'll only do it if it can't be solved by modifying the seat, but driving position is so important to me I'll do whatever it takes. I'm really really fussy with it & the Murcie standard seat position is terrible for someone of my height.

Ah, makes sense.

The angle of the seat doesn't bother me, if fact, I completely forget it's offset until someone at a car event asks about it.

What about the idea of relocating the parking brake, or converting to an electronic parking brake? That brake is taking a ton of space. The Esprit put it on the door sill as a much better solution than what Lambo did.

Thanks for the replies all, very helpful!

 

16 hours ago, pmdw1 said:

If you want to see what a 6'3 tall person looks like driving an LP640 with no seat in it, I move mine at the beginning of this video with no seat. Most people wouldn't realise there's no seat in it.

 

 

Incredible project mate, love it!

 

It actually looks like you have a fair bit of headroom when you’re sitting on the floor. Did you get a measure of how much headroom you gained while sitting straight upright on the floor versus sitting similarly upright in the stock seat? Without modifying the chassis, I guess this would be the maximum possible gain in headroom achievable.

I love the ingenuity you guys have to get what you want out of these cars. Thanks for sharing! 

 

 

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On 7/10/2019 at 1:35 AM, drmc said:

It actually looks like you have a fair bit of headroom when you’re sitting on the floor. Did you get a measure of how much headroom you gained while sitting straight upright on the floor versus sitting similarly upright in the stock seat? Without modifying the chassis, I guess this would be the maximum possible gain in headroom achievable.

I didn't, but I was struggling to see properly, so it's got to be significant.

 

15 hours ago, pmdw1 said:

I didn't, but I was struggling to see properly, so it's got to be significant.

Yeah, nice. If you had to guess, how much room do you reckon you gained? A couple inches? 

1 hour ago, drmc said:

Yeah, nice. If you had to guess, how much room do you reckon you gained? A couple inches? 

I have sat in my car without the seat, and at 6'2"ish, I felt like a midget.

You gain at least 5 or 6 inches of headroom.

ha I can't believe you were in there without the seat. You're right, you really couldn't tell! I wonder how hard it would be to mount pads to the tub? 

I'm 6'5 as well, you can sit a bit bow legged in the Murci and fit ok. With a helmet (in a coupe) no way - I also wouldn't drive the car without a seat in a situation that required a helmet - that's asking for severe injury. tbh though the Murci is not a track car. 

11 hours ago, drmc said:

Yeah, nice. If you had to guess, how much room do you reckon you gained? A couple inches? 

More like 5" I imagine. I think with correct shape custom seat you get gain 4" over a stock seat. It'd be some work though!

Wonder if you could use something like a Tillett CF seat and modify the brackets to drop it in the weeds, so to speak.

4-6 inches is a huge gain! I never would have picked that there was that much room between the floor and the top of the seat when it’s compressed.

 

Unfortunately I don’t think my insurance company would be cool with me driving around without a seat though!

 

So the issue is finding a thin carbon shell like seat with a reclinable back that is narrow enough to bolt straight in without modifying the car..

If you're thinking it's a ridiculous and unsafe idea to just velcro some foam pads to the carpet to make a much roomier seat in the Murci, that's exactly what Lotus did with the back seat of their Evora.

You could get an upholstery shop to shape foam to fit your position in the car and then have them cover the pads in leather.

Just a thought...

 

 

The Sesto has pads attached to the carbon tub, so why not?

I am 6'5" as well and I am on LP640 #5. I have a 34" inseam so my torso is longer. I have decided that I fit in the car and I can drive them without thinking it is uncomfortable. That being said, it is quite snug. I certainly don't sit up straight in them but I have found the right slouch to where it works. I have driven them without seats and it is unreal how much more room there is. The best way to take advantage of this would be to take the seats out, fill a big plastic bag with "bead seat" which is what they use for racing seats where multiple drivers swap during endurance races, sit on the bag and suck the air out, and then let it cure. Then take it to an upholstery shop and let them cover it with matching leather, and put some velcro on the bottom so it will stick to the carpet. It will look goofy but work and be safe enough. 

I have never decided, in about 50k miles, that it was worth the effort to create a new seat. What I would suggest is finding a car that you are ready to own if you can get comfortable in it and tell the sales guy that you need to spend some real time in it on some roads that are extremely wide open and easy including some highway. Give him a comfortable deposit first so they are comfortable with you. What you will find is that you don't drive a car in the same position you "try one on" in. You will be much more comfortable than you think. 

Thanks very much for the input guys. It seems there is a good chance that, by removing the seat and fitting a carbon bucket / bead seat / padding the floor / slouching down, I could fit comfortably into a Murci without a helmet and some chance I could fit in with a helmet. I guess no one is promised tomorrow so I should just pick one up and see what I can do.

 I’ll take measurements and let you all know what kind of room can be gained for future reference.

 Ps, love VINwiki and your YouTube channel, Ed, keep em coming!

That sounds like you’ve got a good plan now.

As mentioned before, it’s only 4 allen pretty easy to reach screws and the seat comes right out. Not even any wires to disconnect.

Note, whenever you put a seat back in using the factory screw holes, the screws need to be well started into the holes by hand before using any power tools because it’s crazy easy to cross thread them. The threads are extremely soft. If not, you’ll be searching for a tap to clear the threads and making a simple job into a task. Don’t ask me how I know!

18 hours ago, Stimpy said:

Note, whenever you put a seat back in using the factory screw holes, the screws need to be well started into the holes by hand before using any power tools because it’s crazy easy to cross thread them. The threads are extremely soft. If not, you’ll be searching for a tap to clear the threads and making a simple job into a task. Don’t ask me how I know!

Or me.

Had my seats out yesterday to bleed the egear actuator, plus a bunch of other items. While I had them out I tried sitting in the area where the seat was. Plenty of room and comfortable, though actually you sit pretty low, I'm 6'3". 

I know many tall Pantera owners lower their floor pans in order to fit with the seats intact, but these are cars where owners are not afraid to do extensive modifications in order to make it their own. Murci owners I’m not sure about in respect to mods. One of my Panteras has lowered pans from the prior 6’6” owner which created a lot of room, but with me being about 5’5” I put my seat on some stainless steel square rails so I would fit right.

I don't think DW has a problem modifying his Murcielago to achieve the result he is after, LOL.

Love his work!