JPJones

Those look like those cheap, heavy retro style wheels called "XXR"….look them up on ebay…under $300 per set, new. They are for the crowd that wants to look good parked, slammed for low $$.

I made a quick percentage acceleration chart @ track rpms to illustrate my earlier point. The two cars have a different nature. The TTG sees the desireable 90% + torque/thrust eventually declining as it would accelerate on track at track RPMs. Controlled with your right foot as required. The Lotus as noted earlier does not. In fact at the limit of traction it is not linear to the driver's foot. Harder to drive to it's potential, less one with the driver. You have to wait around for maximum acceleration, and it comes in with RPMs moreso than with your foot. Nearly all designers try to avoid the Lotus curve, unless they are stuck with it. It makes impressive numbers since it is peaky. But it would be faster with a more efficient thrust curve. Reminds me of a dyno of a vorteched S2000. Big peak number to brag about, but not as fast as you'd expect when driven hard. I doubt the Lotus guy's claims even more now. No wonder he really, really, really does not want to test his car. 0-125 MPH in 5.2 seconds. Big time fail with that state of build. And on the open track you'd have to leave some safety factor leaving turns. So the sudden onset of torque as boost builds does not overwhelm the throttle balanced cornering you already achieved with your foot and steering. Why do things the hard way? In the Lambo you just drive the car instead of fighting it. As they say, there is no substitute for cubic inches. You'd think an old codger like him would have learned that by now. (A bit hard to make this chart while looking at those lovelies up above!)

The Lotus guy claims he hates BS. Yet he continually makes amazing claims about his car that few outside his forum believe. I call BS. He refuses to measure his car using a VBox. His own forum members (very few people) won't question him about it either. So what does that make them? Hey Manson had followers too.

Example of a more useable torque curve. Not peaky like the Lotus dyno when in it's range. More enjoyable to drive, especially when entering a straight after a curve. Observe the flat torque curve with a slightly declining slope… (Twin Turbo Gallardo)

Mr Lotus guy, just VBox your car. It's very simple really and won't harm your car. Allan said you could use his VBox. Somehow you only want to spend 5 minutes measuring your car after a track event you invented requiring car ownership to be transferred and maybe burned up in front of world media. You were asked to VBox your car before you came up with your track idea. I think your challenge was deliberately designed to be declined so that you could later claim some sort of victory or save face or avoid VBoxing your Lotus. What is the problem exactly? I think that Allan made a reasonable request. He has VBoxed his car many times so he is apparently comfortable with doing so and sharing with others. The GPS satellites don't take sides they just spit out the results. Maybe your car could be made even faster, who knows. It would take just a short time to use the VBox. Temporarily installs like a radar detector. No wiring. Drive your car a few times. Instantly look at the results on the little screen, and later in more detail on your computer. What's so difficult?

Has the modified Lotus been VBoxed yet or has it been scheduled?

I kind of missed that. I'm new here and came across the Lambo / Lotus situation after it got posted on many different forums at the same time. I was not sure at first but I thought that the Cumgobbler name might have been selected by the Lotus guy to disrespect the forum. But after reading a bit that did not seem to be the case. Maybe it should be changed back to whatever it was before, and any other changes corrected? I'd still like to see the souped up Lotus VBoxed as I think the claimed times are quite exaggerated. Some who have measured various fast cars challenged the Lotus guy. That seems to be part of the root cause of the situation. It's very easily resolved if the Lotus guy can be made to feel comfortable with doing so. He seems very angry / defensive so this may not occur. Instead he wants a very expensive race or time trial to be run. That seems too extreme too (like his being renamed here), and while interesting does not answer the question about his acceleration claims. Is the fella too stuck in his difficult style of behavior that he can't simply measure his car's acceleration? There is no cost or scheduling required. Maybe if this forum bent a bit, so would he. Or not.

The thing about that Lotus…the engine is small and the resulting torque curve is not flat at all. Cars like that are fast on the track, yes. However they don't reach their full potential. They are not as fast as you'd think. This is due to the shape of the torque curve. Which makes them harder to drive. Let me explain. The Lotus is a two wheel drive car, and you have to feed in the massively increased power carefully exiting each turn. So you don't spin it. My favorite torque curves are flat with a slight decrease as RPMs rise. Motors like that are easy to drive fast as you have "passive traction control". Which then allows you to fully utilize the cornering capability. See…if some slight wheelspin occurs leaving a turn…the RPMs rise and the torque then slightly drops. This automatically slows down the "almost catastrophe" enough so that you can catch it more easily. Driveable to it's full potential. A steeply rising torque curve makes corner exit much trickier. Undriveable to it's full potential. Compounding the matter is engine response. If a high output car has strange or lagged throttle response compared to normally aspirated…then modulating the engine output as you leave a turn is more difficult. This is common on high boost cars. Sure they can be fast and a thrill ride to drive. But you have to leave something on the table so that you can exit turns under control. Get it? Look at the dyno for Cum-G's car. It rises rapidly with RPMs. This can feel exciting. The acceleraton accelerates. A dyno queen. Leave a turn a bit too hard and zing goes the revs as the torque just gains and gains. Unforgiving. It promotes exit wheelspin. Mortal drivers solve that by leaving turns more gently and then booting it only when their steering wheel is very straight and the turn is certainly well over. Much less blending of the end of cornering with the beginning of acceleration. So they are not fully using their motor with a impressive dyno sheet! In Cum-G's dyno below, the torque curve shape I prefer is only present for the last 1200-1300 RPMs. The rest of the time, the steeply rising torque curve works against you at corner exit. IF you were cornering to the car's full potential just prior, of course. At higher speeds the TTG would cream the Cum-G for sure, since then you need HP versus the air mostly. So for instance the top speed of the TTG would be much higher than the Cum-G. That's why an AMG with passengers can run with a Viper at high speeds. I hope that I've explained some of this concern well enough that a light bulb or two lit up.

I think step 1 should be a "V-Boxing Match". The TTG's performance is pretty well documented at this time, just look in the vbox thread for instance. Cum-G's performance is based on…the owner's claims. Cum-G can use Allan's V-Box and have at it. Why should that take pink slips and huge escrow accounts for the difference in value? Just suction cup the V-Box and have at it for a few minutes. Then wait for Cum-G's excuses, complaints, and taunts when he comes nowhere near his claimed results. I know…Cum-G will say that Allan hacked the GPS satellite network to make the Lotus measure slower. LOL.

I trust you but did not read that at the time...I gather that those posts are now gone. From where I caught this clash it looked mostly about straightline capabilities and then morphed into a race with big stakes proposed by one person to avoid Vboxing his ride to confirm his amazing claims. I'd rather just see the Vbox results as neither person is a pro racer nor is either car living on the track. Neither car owner seems to do track days 3-4 times a month. I call BS on 1.8 second 0-60s, 5.2 second 0-125 MPHs and similiar claims without credibility from Cum-G regarding his Lotus. We've already seen plenty of Vbox results showing the capabilities of the TTG in question. But only lots of noise from the Lotus guy. So, let's see what each car can do, line up the Vbox columns of information side by side. Column TTG has plenty of results. The Cum-G column is EMPTY and the person gets very, very, very, very upset if someone wants to measure the performance of his Lotus to confirm his big claims. That could be because he knows he can't hit 0-125 MPH in 5.2 seconds in the state of build the car was in when those claims were made. Supposedly it is quite a bit faster now than then. So what…4.7 seconds for 0-125 MPH? Way better than 5.2 seconds, surely. I *doubt* the Lotus could produce those results even with it's more extreme present build. So let's see Cum-G invest a few seconds of his time to Vbox the car. A track day comparo sounds interesting too, but that will take some time to set up and arrange. Whereas Vboxing the car will have results in a few days should Cum-G agree to do so. At the very least let's see a videoed Vbox of Cum-G's car. I predict the Lotus will be fast, but NOT as fast as the owner claims. Not even close.

Thanks. Just read some of Cum-G's posts elsewhere or in his worshipper inhabited (or else) forum. All talk. Little else. The guy picks fights and then challenges to a never takes place track event. And then claims victory over the other person. Like one of those ricer fly bys where you let off and some kid flies by a few seconds later and then puts on his blinkers. Like he "won". Hey Ronin…spend 5.2 seconds doing 0-125 mph with the VBox suction cupped to your windshield. And share the data. 'Course…it could be longer than that… Since Ronin is scared. And since his car cannot produce the claimed results. What was it 1.8 seconds to 60 mph? In whose dreams in which universe? All the rest of the noise, language, track challenges, and marshmallow roast stuff from Cum-G is just an attempt to avoid getting caught out with his exaggerated claims. The thing is…he claimed them online endlessly and for years…even has them printed in magazines who did not test the car. So it's gonna hurt when it turns out that TTG > Cum-G...

Seems quite reasonable to me to Vbox both cars. One car has already been vboxed again and again over time. The other has NEVER been tested. Just run your car Cum-G!! It's easy and won't hurt your car. There is nothing to be frightened about. I read about the modified Lotus on another site. It was claimed to produce under 2 second 0-60 MPH times. 0-125 MPH in just over 5 seconds. And that was before the latest modifications. I call BS. No Way / No How. Fail. Not even close.