Cost of a 6.0

Yea, I'm contradicting a little bit, but a little wisdom doesn't hurt. The first model year of any model is a little suspect. This car needs stuff done to be a reliable driver.

 

I guess some are taking this as a personal attack on their high mileage cars, which is not my intention. I'm racking up the miles on mine too.

I'm sorry, but I never understood this whole garage queen thing. These things are machines. There is more wear and tear done when in use.

The only thing that I get hung up on, is the same valve spring being compressed for too long, but that's probably silly also.

 

This stuff is rubber, plastic, leather and metal. If not stored under water, it will outlast 10 human lives.

 

Do people actually think a seal will see more abuse being parked for 1 year then driven 3000 miles? And how does a hose or tire "dry out" on a garage queen and not on a daily driver?

 

I think when viewing a garage queen there may be a perception of drying out and aging, because of the lack of everything else that you expect on a more uses car.

 

My tires on my F car are brand new 8 years old, with a brownish white tinge on the side walls. I think I drove it 4K miles in 8 years. If I drove it more, I guess they would look better, along with some other stuff... because they would have worn out and been replaced.

A lot of parts need some lubrication. This is done through use. Parts that need to move, and go through long periods of time without, can sieze, fail, break. Just like if it were used or worse.

 

And, you dont have the fun of driving it all the time.

I'm sorry, but I never understood this whole garage queen thing. These things are machines. There is more wear and tear done when in use.

The only thing that I get hung up on, is the same valve spring being compressed for too long, but that's probably silly also.

 

This stuff is rubber, plastic, leather and metal. If not stored under water, it will outlast 10 human lives.

 

Do people actually think a seal will see more abuse being parked for 1 year then driven 3000 miles? And how does a hose or tire "dry out" on a garage queen and not on a daily driver?

 

I think when viewing a garage queen there may be a perception of drying out and aging, because of the lack of everything else that you expect on a more uses car.

 

My tires on my F car are brand new 8 years old, with a brownish white tinge on the side walls. I think I drove it 4K miles in 8 years. If I drove it more, I guess they would look better, along with some other stuff... because they would have worn out and been replaced.

 

With all due respect, I agree they are machines, not desgined to be stationary objects. They are designed to be in motion, i.e. machine, mechanical, not a big block of solid metal. Ask a mechanic. Call the factory in Italy ...

 

Again, with all due respect, seals and rubber hoses dry out when not is use do to no fluids ever touching them, even though you may wipe the exterior with "armour all" related types of products ... they dry out from the inside and strcuturally can fail (read - lose their elasticity). As for your 8 year old "brand new tires" ... even the tire retailers can be fined for selling tires past the magic 8 year mark and tire shops are fined as well. Research has been done to recognize, and confirm, that tires are considered structurally dangerous and unsound at the 6-8 year mark. It is fine if you want to keep the car all original; however do not sell it and let the guy drive away and start really driving it as they literally may desinagrate at normal roads speeds. They rot and crack from the inside.

 

 

If you do not believe me, ask pirelli, michelin or whatever brand you use or ask Lamborghini ... or read it is becoming law in some states.

 

http://www.safetyresearch.net/2009/05/01/srs-tire-age-bill/

 

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-1...tire-date_x.htm - key phrase "Anti-aging chemicals in tires are active only when a tire is in use, the coucil stated" UK TYRE Industry Council, even Ford, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, AUDI and others have stated this for years ... Chrysler even puts it into their owners manual.

 

http://www.10news.com/investigations/16219981/detail.html

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=4822250&page=1

 

With the cars that we drive, there is no room for bad tires, as they are the only thing touching the ground, period. Not trying to state anything other than do your research and be safe!

 

As stated, I am not trying to rile the troops, just never understood why people pay the $ for cars like these to not drive them ... if not driven, why buy the car? To tell your friends?? I buy them because they impress me, I could care less about impressing someone else, because frankly spending money on a depreciating asset is NOT impressive, just a choice if you can afford it.

 

best, sandstrs

 

 

Maybe I did not make my point clearly...

This is not about safety, bad tires or impressing.

Either we wear things out by driving, or we age them by not. Either way, they need replacing at about the same point.

The tire analogy was to give an example of this.

 

And I don't buy the "lubrication" thing when it comes to oil seals. I think the shelf life of an engine or trans seal is something like forever. At least it will last longer on the shelf then against a spinning shaft... oil or no oil. And nothing needs lubrication unless it's moving.

 

I believe, you can take any car completely apart, put everything on a shelf, wait 50 years, put it back together, and experience about the same issues as if you have driven it enough not to call it a garage queen.

 

Like I said though, I'm a little hung up on a valve spring being compressed for long periods of time. And someone may argue that the front and rear crank seal may take a set from the crank always laying on the bottom of the bearings. And this is all assuming that the "garage queen" is stored in the correct environment.

Maybe I did not make my point clearly...

This is not about safety, bad tires or impressing.

Either we wear things out by driving, or we age them by not. Either way, they need replacing at about the same point.

The tire analogy was to give an example of this.

 

And I don't buy the "lubrication" thing when it comes to oil seals. I think the shelf life of an engine or trans seal is something like forever. At least it will last longer on the shelf then against a spinning shaft... oil or no oil. And nothing needs lubrication unless it's moving.

 

I believe, you can take any car completely apart, put everything on a shelf, wait 50 years, put it back together, and experience about the same issues as if you have driven it enough not to call it a garage queen.

 

Like I said though, I'm a little hung up on a valve spring being compressed for long periods of time. And someone may argue that the front and rear crank seal may take a set from the crank always laying on the bottom of the bearings. And this is all assuming that the "garage queen" is stored in the correct environment.

 

Cheers!!

Sandstrs

puting a disassembled car on a shelf would have different results than a car that has very caustic fluids inside. I would agree that a dry car, completely cleaned and degreased can last for years and years. But, that is not reality, is it?

 

Age by itself will not break down hoses and seals, it is the chemicals that run through the car left sitting that cause problems.

 

Do I see things different than most?

puting a disassembled car on a shelf would have different results than a car that has very caustic fluids inside. I would agree that a dry car, completely cleaned and degreased can last for years and years. But, that is not reality, is it?

 

Age by itself will not break down hoses and seals, it is the chemicals that run through the car left sitting that cause problems.

 

Do I see things different than most?

 

 

The moisture and chemicals in the atmosophere also contributes to deterioration of rubber. Keep in mind that over time and due to time alone some molecules break down by themselves.

 

Seals lubricated by oil that sit too long dry out on the surfaces and can get stuck. When the seal is then moved and forced to come unstuck damage can occur.

 

I would say a properly serviced and garaged car would have the same or very similar life of all rubber components as a car sitting in a garage its whole life but still serviced regularly, or as parts on the shelf.

 

Steel cylinder liners/rings will pit and/or rust just from sitting over long lenths of time, the atmosphere dries the surface out and the moisture attacks the surface. Similarly for gears and camshafts. I know the later Lambo engines have coated cylinders.

 

More fuel to the fire is the fact that metal distorts over time as it stress relieves and normalizes. An engine used regularly will have all it's components seated better (gets the chance to settle in as everything is moving ever so slightly around) and causes less friction than that of an engine sitting around for long lengths of time. Similarly for bearings, valves, rings, camshafts and gear teeth.

 

There are a lot of things to take proper care of if storing long term. Temperature controlled and 0% humidity and filtered storage would be the only option, and careful attention to the cars fluids and corrosion prone critical surfaces.

 

There is a lot to consider!

 

 

All good points guys!

 

And Jota, you're right. I've taken a lot of engines apart, and if stored for long periods of time, you can see scars in the cylinder walls where the rings were parked. This is one of the reasons the boat people "fog" their engines before storing. I usually just turn the crank a few degrees with a tool every once in a while. This may help. And it also gets me over the valve spring phobia I have.

 

NEVER start an engine for only a short period just to run it and then store it.

 

It seems that some of us believe that some parts store better dry and some wet. I still believe whichever it is, when it comes to metal or plastic, it lasts as long if not longer then the part being used / driven.

 

So this discussion is about garage queens. Has anybody changed their minds?... With the exception of mileage, all other things being equal, which one has better value. A car with 10K more miles then one mostly parked for 5 years? The question may be too complex because we almost never know how the car with 10K less miles was used or stored.

 

When I sell my queens, someone will be getting a good deal. Or at least, good valve springs.