Here is what I have learned

Greeting, been following your site for awhile, trying to learn as much as I can before I jump both feet into the world of Lambo Ownership. Currently looking for a QV, poss 25th.

 

I fit into that catagory of having CT pics on my wall growing up, well now I am grown and have the funds to make it happen. But I am leary about the maintainence issues. I live in the Philly area and had looked at the 86 CT at pro-auto. NYCT just bought it and many of you have seen his posts about the electrical problems. What I dont get is, that car had spent a year with Geroge Evans, they advertised a 150K in renovations, perfect car. Within a few weeks poor Stephen is rewiring the car thanks to numerous electrical problems. Now, Stephen is an electrical engineer in background and has the know how to work through this. I wouldn't know a ground wire from my *SS. What is the not-so skilled to do in these situations? Stephens experience is what I am afraid of, spending near 100k and getting home to find the lights not working or the engine not starting.

 

My point is, if a car spends a year with one of the best and still has problems, how are the rest of the cars going to be. Or should I take a hint from George Evans himself and get a Ferrari. For those who don't know George, he drives an f-40, not a lambo. I used to live in Columbus and George has worked on my other cars for years. He says the CT is one of the worst cars ever in terms of maintainence.

 

So here is my dilemma, I don't necessarily like the 25th the best, the skirts are a little cheesy, but I hear they have the highest reliability. Should I just go for at 25th given that they probably are going to give the least problems. Or should I go for an 87-88 QV in the hopes that the guy putting it together on the line, was sober that day.

 

Most of the cars you see advertised are someone who had the car for a year, no problems, runs great. How do you know that the guy is not just ready to blow his head off due to the problems with his car. Let's face it, most don't run great and have NO problems.

 

In addition, how about a good mechanic in the philly area, and how about a PPI from exoticcarsusa. Are they any good, has anyone used them. I really do appreciate all the help and hope to post within the next month or two pics of my new car. Like to hear your input into the 25th, are they that much better if you ignore the looks.

Use Wil at Exoticars for anything Lambo related.He's been good to me.

Any 20 year old car is bound to have issues. The 86 is in great shape, especially the engine. Don't be too discouraged by my questions here. Pro-Auto has been right there with me, and if it hadn't been raining non-stop I would have brought to car back and they would make it right. Just decided I wanted to get my hands dirty. I am still going to take it down there this week and they will do a full walk through of the wiring.

 

The fact is it is a stiff car for good handling. Things get knocked loose, grounds get dirty, etc. Even though Evans had worked through it, the car sat with less than 200 miles over 2 years.

 

My opinion, having just gone through the process of deciding what to buy, is to go with what makes your heart pound, but also keep in mind what will continue to increase in value. I finally steered away from the Ferarris because there are just too many out there for almost every year (within reason). All of the 80's F cars are still declining in value while the L's are tracking up.

 

Also, this may have just been my experience, but I test drove 9 Ferarris in my search and every single one had signs of mechanical issues. 50% of them I sensed synchro issues right away. No matter what car you go for, I would always lean towards one that is the most mechanically strong. Especially if you don't have a background to get in the engine. Electrical issues can be traced and you will learn. Finding the loose ground wire may be annoying, but it sure beats having to pay someone to take apart the transmission after dropping 100k.

 

For what it's worth, "buyer's remorse" on the CT is nill. Nothing will get you and give you more of a wow factor than driving it home.

 

FYI- Pro-Auto has a red/black anniversary on sale now with low miles (<5k km i think) I saw it and it is mint. Go test drive it on several different occasions. Until you get comfortable with the car, you can't tell what you should be looking for.

 

and that concludes today's sermon.

Greeting, been following your site for awhile, trying to learn as much as I can before I jump both feet into the world of Lambo Ownership. Currently looking for a QV, poss 25th.

 

I fit into that catagory of having CT pics on my wall growing up, well now I am grown and have the funds to make it happen. But I am leary about the maintainence issues. I live in the Philly area and had looked at the 86 CT at pro-auto. NYCT just bought it and many of you have seen his posts about the electrical problems. What I dont get is, that car had spent a year with Geroge Evans, they advertised a 150K in renovations, perfect car. Within a few weeks poor Stephen is rewiring the car thanks to numerous electrical problems. Now, Stephen is an electrical engineer in background and has the know how to work through this. I wouldn't know a ground wire from my *SS. What is the not-so skilled to do in these situations? Stephens experience is what I am afraid of, spending near 100k and getting home to find the lights not working or the engine not starting.

 

My point is, if a car spends a year with one of the best and still has problems, how are the rest of the cars going to be. Or should I take a hint from George Evans himself and get a Ferrari. For those who don't know George, he drives an f-40, not a lambo. I used to live in Columbus and George has worked on my other cars for years. He says the CT is one of the worst cars ever in terms of maintainence.

 

So here is my dilemma, I don't necessarily like the 25th the best, the skirts are a little cheesy, but I hear they have the highest reliability. Should I just go for at 25th given that they probably are going to give the least problems. Or should I go for an 87-88 QV in the hopes that the guy putting it together on the line, was sober that day.

 

Most of the cars you see advertised are someone who had the car for a year, no problems, runs great. How do you know that the guy is not just ready to blow his head off due to the problems with his car. Let's face it, most don't run great and have NO problems.

 

In addition, how about a good mechanic in the philly area, and how about a PPI from exoticcarsusa. Are they any good, has anyone used them. I really do appreciate all the help and hope to post within the next month or two pics of my new car. Like to hear your input into the 25th, are they that much better if you ignore the looks.

 

I think youve heard wrong... In terms of maintanance, a CT is going to be less over the long haul than a Ferrari. The big issue on the ferraris are the timing belts, which have to be changed frequently to avoid catostrophic failure... That means engine removal (and while we're in there we might as well-$$$$$$$)

 

Electrical gremlins are inherent in ALL Italian cars (and most british cars as well) from Fiat to Ferrari to Lamborghini to Maserati to Alfa Romeo... They all used the same stuff, and it sucked ass... Once you get them sorted, it should be a none issue. The Ignition box is the big gremlin for the Countach... (it happens to be the same box used in several model of Ferrari, so no advantage there). Once you get that replaced (cheap fix), unless its been hacked to death by somebody who didnt know what they were doing, you should be good to go... Each car will be different... You definitely DONT want a garage queen... You want a car thats been driven... but not abused...

 

My guess is, Stephen will be replacing his (actually, I would think he should START there as his symptoms are classic "bad box").

 

Mine ran like crap until I did that, and now it is incredible. To say it "runs great" is an understatement. Im no electrical engineer... I did it myself in a few hours... EASY!

 

I live in the most strict state in terms of emissions. It smogged on the first attempt with no issues. This after living 6 years in a state with NO emissions control...

 

You dont pass california emissions on a car that doesnt run well....

 

Listen... its an exotic car... Which means MAINTANANCE COSTS... REGARDLESS of the marque...

Thanks for the feedback, truly appreciated. I agree with all your comments and am ready as soon as I find the right car. Mostly I agree with how rare these cars have become. I had considered a F355 spyder but those are a dime a dozen on ebay, in comparison, there is only one CT. Is this the wrong time of year to be looking, is fall, winter better? Am I going to pay a premium now as opposed to waiting it out. I am looking for Black with preferably black interior, with or without a wing. Would like to have 1987 or newer.

 

Stephen, I will look for you this weekend at the meet. Look forward to seeing your car, again.

... Is this the wrong time of year to be looking, is fall, winter better? Am I going to pay a premium now as opposed to waiting it out. I am looking for Black with preferably black interior, with or without a wing. Would like to have 1987 or newer.

 

Stephen, I will look for you this weekend at the meet. Look forward to seeing your car, again.

 

The comments about maintence are right on. Find a good car, drive it and once you fix something right you are good to go. It does the car no good to let it sit. As far a prices and the seasons go. With so few CT to go around and what seem like more and more people wanting to buy one, I do not think time of year means anything. One of the reasons I bought was because I was afraid of getting priced out. When you find the right car buy it. You will never look back

 

Vinnie

You're willing to pay premium....call me

My point is, if a car spends a year with one of the best and still has problems, how are the rest of the cars going to be. Or should I take a hint from George Evans himself and get a Ferrari. For those who don't know George, he drives an f-40, not a lambo. I used to live in Columbus and George has worked on my other cars for years. He says the CT is one of the worst cars ever in terms of maintainence.

.

 

Hahaha..... I think he might have been gently telling you "you don't have the stomach for a Countach " haha - j/k....... Indeed he does drive an F40..... and a Countach downdraft, and a Diablo roadster, .....and - well you get the picture. He is a huge Countach fan..... but he will certainly be staight up with you and tell you they can be maintenance intensive.

 

As has pointed out by others here, I think all cars in that category are as well, but the CT maybe a little more. Once you get them sorted they're quite solid. Just remember you're talking about a 20 year old car that has been ravaged by the calander as much as miles.

Buy what you like, not what others tell you.

I think what George was trying to tell you is that an awful lot of CT's out there are going to be in need of a lotof maintinance. Due to thier age and lack of maintinance by preveious owners. He does not surgar coat anything. Ferraris are no better. Buy an 85 or 86 Testarossa and see what kind of issues you have. Allan is correct, Buy the car you want. But do your homework and understand what these cars are about. A perfect car still has gremlins. Its the nature of the beast. If you want or expect a trouble free Lambo especially an older one.

On the subject of NYCT's car, I did a tremendous amount of work to that car, but I did not build a brand new whole car. Common electrical issues were addressed but the whole car was not re wired. And as was pointed out, the car sat for 2 plus years. A car that sits has more problems then a car thats driven.

One more thing, George owns more Lambos then Ferraris. And don't think the F-40 hasn't had problems.

I get the idea that some people might think the 25th is ugly ? :-k flush

___

 

A mid eng 12cyl F car, is not going to be cheaper than a 12cyl L car to maintain. In the end they will be quite similar in upkeep costs. The Countach clutch will last for quite some time, if you choose to drive the car correctly. Why save a small amount (sometimes their is no savings or worse), and compromise with a second choice (whatever that might be) ? An engine out belt service from a reputable shop, will cost not a dime less than five figures. - This is supposed to be done every five years or 30K miles.

 

As for potential appreciation, a Testarossa is not going to increase in price. A very nice Countach, does have some good potential to increase in price.

I beleive the QVs and up are more reliable in general than the earlier car with the 25th being the most reliable (not necessarily the most desirable). I also beleive that the downdraft has less things to go wrong.

That said, unless you have the skills patience and equipement to work on that kind of cars, buy a car that has been sorted out even if the price is the highest in its range. Everyone who got an initial "deal" paid the difference and then some within a year or so. Most of the time these people get discouraged and sell out of frustration or end up hanging them to their living room wall.

 

Many owners I know have their car in the shop for extended period of time. That is the shame of this industry because owners tend not to fully enjoy what they bought. I personally wanted to buy and enjoy, not have the car in the shop all the time. I bought my car in 2001, got it checked by Georges and ask him to do what needed to be done. He was very timely on this and the work done was not major since the car was already sorted out by the prior owner. The car appeared very well maintained by the prior owners to start with. I have done about 2K miles /year as time permits. Have not had any issues other than me tinkering with small cosmetic improvments (like respray, accusump install, etc..). My issues to date were the clutch slave cylinder to de redone, a light relay and light motor and the AC fan blower that gave out. I always enjoyed the car since 2001 and never had it more that 1 week out in the shop.

On a scale of happiness I am at 98% (2% because of the stupid fan I am fixing right now the car does not cost me an arm and leg in repairs. I am spending money on other things, like spares, (got a complete brand new set of original whells and new p7s for shows). But that is for me enjoyable spending to make the car better without taking it off the road.

I do religious maintenance on fluids, drive fast but not crazy. I pay respect to the clutch. My actual problem is that it is hard to find someone who has their countach ready to go at anytime like I have mine. Either they are gone for 1/2 year at a clip in the shop for repairs or they are gone for 1/2 year because the owner decided to have new paint, new leather, new...).

What I am trying to say is it since you dont enjoy working on fixing cars (some people do) then buy the best car you can find and check its history of repairs. I have seen very good lp400 cars but all of these have been heavily sorted by their owners at great costs. Also don't assume that because a car has a high price it has been sorted. You can find a CT that meets your choice of reliability. They are out there but you will have to look carefully and dont hesitate to have it inspected by someone who work on these cars. Better lose a $400 inspection than buying someone nightmare for $70-100K+.

I personally wasted over $1500 looking at CTs I did not buy when shopping. Money well worth it in retrospect.

When buying a CT, more than anything else, my experiecne is that you really get what you pay for. They are no steal for the non mechanically inclined but it sure beats owning a F355!.

I think what George was trying to tell you is that an awful lot of CT's out there are going to be in need of a lotof maintinance. Due to thier age and lack of maintinance by preveious owners. He does not surgar coat anything. Ferraris are no better. Buy an 85 or 86 Testarossa and see what kind of issues you have. Allan is correct, Buy the car you want. But do your homework and understand what these cars are about. A perfect car still has gremlins. Its the nature of the beast. If you want or expect a trouble free Lambo especially an older one.

On the subject of NYCT's car, I did a tremendous amount of work to that car, but I did not build a brand new whole car. Common electrical issues were addressed but the whole car was not re wired. And as was pointed out, the car sat for 2 plus years. A car that sits has more problems then a car thats driven.

One more thing, George owns more Lambos then Ferraris. And don't think the F-40 hasn't had problems.

 

Mike- glad to find you. You guys did some amazing work on that car. I hopefully found the main issue which was a scarred up, cracked, loose positive battery terminal connection. Once I weld the new one on tomorrow I think all should be well.

 

Are you going to be at Poconos this weekend. Assuming my issue is fixed now, I will be out. I would love to buy you a drink and pick your brain about the work done. I have all the photos and emails, but could benefit from some info on the engine work done to take it to a FI downdraft config. I'm expecting to get stumped by a few questions at the show!