Rear wheel drive Murcielago

Happy Holidays everyone, recently bit the bullet and bought my 1st bull. A MY2002 Murcielago. While this is a very significant event for me as it's been a car that I've been lusting after for a while now. Unfortunately I fell victim to a plot between the previous owners & the inspection garage. To make the long story short, the car was 'modified' into rear wheel drive only and so only drivable with the tracking control off and this was NOT made known to me by the previous owner NOR the bloody garage.

 

Needless to say I'm furious and checking w/ the lawyers as to ways to persue this. In the meantime, I still like the car and would like to check as to what I'm really in for if I want to fix it up to the original factory spec and here're a few questions which I hope you can bear with me:

 

1. Does any of you actually do this modification and what does it really involve and how does it handle? Upon detailed inspection by 'official' dealer here, the front differential was simply removed and some sensors were removed as well as a result. As such, I'm led to believe this modification was not done professionally. As such, I'm interested to find out how is it done, if properly?

 

2. Moreover, given that Lambo never released a rear wheel drive Murcie, I wonder if it's really a good idea to mod it into a rear wheel drive? Do you think I ran any risk driving the car in the current form or I'm committing suicide?

 

3. Any recommendation on how to go about fixing it back to original spec OTHER than ordering the factory replacement part? As one can imagine, the original parts, especially the front differential are very dear and certainly NOT an amount I've factored in when I bought the car.

 

This is all very frustrating to me as I was so so looking forward to this acquisition yet it turns out to be such a major let down.

 

Thanks for bearing with me and any pointer appreciated!

 

 

This is why one should ALWAYS get an independent PPI prior to buying a used exotic.

 

That being said, we have members here who have RWD Murci's who love it. Whiteout and D.Wiggs come to mind immediately.

 

D.Wiggs had a 2003 Murci which he converted to RWD and sold it and has converted his recently purchased 670sv to RWD.

Congratulations on your Murcie. Hopefully you'll be able to get some compensation, although it still sucks you have to deal with such a mess.

 

Sorry I can't be of more help, however there are a few members who have gone the RWD route on their Murcies. Most recently I believe a member did this with his LP670. Might want to browse for that thread.

Happy Holidays everyone, recently bit the bullet and bought my 1st bull. A MY2002 Murcielago. While this is a very significant event for me as it's been a car that I've been lusting after for a while now. Unfortunately I fell victim to a plot between the previous owners & the inspection garage. To make the long story short, the car was 'modified' into rear wheel drive only and so only drivable with the tracking control off and this was NOT made known to me by the previous owner NOR the bloody garage.

 

Needless to say I'm furious and checking w/ the lawyers as to ways to persue this. In the meantime, I still like the car and would like to check as to what I'm really in for if I want to fix it up to the original factory spec and here're a few questions which I hope you can bear with me:

 

1. Does any of you actually do this modification and what does it really involve and how does it handle? Upon detailed inspection by 'official' dealer here, the front differential was simply removed and some sensors were removed as well as a result. As such, I'm led to believe this modification was not done professionally. As such, I'm interested to find out how is it done, if properly?

 

2. Moreover, given that Lambo never released a rear wheel drive Murcie, I wonder if it's really a good idea to mod it into a rear wheel drive? Do you think I ran any risk driving the car in the current form or I'm committing suicide?

 

3. Any recommendation on how to go about fixing it back to original spec OTHER than ordering the factory replacement part? As one can imagine, the original parts, especially the front differential are very dear and certainly NOT an amount I've factored in when I bought the car.

 

This is all very frustrating to me as I was so so looking forward to this acquisition yet it turns out to be such a major let down.

 

Thanks for bearing with me and any pointer appreciated!

 

Let me put all of your fears aside. The reason the car has to be driven with the TCS system off has absolutely nothing to do with the RWD conversion; it has to do with the tire size. If the car is running the common 19/20 setup, then it means you are most likley having a 345/25/20 in the rear and a 245/35/19 in the front. What you actually need is the 235/35/19 in the front and then the TCS system will be happy.

 

 

 

The Murci was never designed to be RWD and, frankly, never should have been. Lamborghini didn't even put a 3rd diff in the car; they, instead used a front diff and viscous coupler that is supposed to simulate a center diff.

 

RWD modding a Murci is the absolute best change you can make; the car really sucks in AWD form IMO; it kills the power and responsiveness. Making it RWD will add about 10% WHP and take off about 180lbs. That, plus exhaust and you add about 15% WHP and drop your weight by 9% or so; the power to weight ratio is massively improved.

 

 

 

I bought my MY03 Murci and converted it after a couple weeks. I drove it in RWD form for 12,000 miles and 6 years. I would NEVER EVER EVER go back to AWD. I had my LP670-4SV converted to RWD after owning it for 4 hours. I would never turn it back to AWD.

 

 

 

Keep it RWD and enjoy; let me know the tire specs you have and I can tell you the exact problem you are having assuming I didn't already point it out above.

 

 

 

Enjoy the car!

This is why one should ALWAYS get an independent PPI prior to buying a used exotic.

 

That being said, we have members here who have RWD Murci's who love it. Whiteout and D.Wiggs come to mind immediately.

 

D.Wiggs had a 2003 Murci which he converted to RWD and sold it and has converted his recently purchased 670sv to RWD.

 

Thanks. I would normally do that religiously, but the seller was very skillfull, to say the least. Given that I'm already in legal consultation, I wouldn't comment any further. I guess at some points I'll be able to give the full story for those who're interested.

Let me put all of your fears aside. The reason the car has to be driven with the TCS system off has absolutely nothing to do with the RWD conversion; it has to do with the tire size. If the car is running the common 19/20 setup, then it means you are most likley having a 345/25/20 in the rear and a 245/35/19 in the front. What you actually need is the 235/35/19 in the front and then the TCS system will be happy.

 

 

 

The Murci was never designed to be RWD and, frankly, never should have been. Lamborghini didn't even put a 3rd diff in the car; they, instead used a front diff and viscous coupler that is supposed to simulate a center diff.

 

RWD modding a Murci is the absolute best change you can make; the car really sucks in AWD form IMO; it kills the power and responsiveness. Making it RWD will add about 10% WHP and take off about 180lbs. That, plus exhaust and you add about 15% WHP and drop your weight by 9% or so; the power to weight ratio is massively improved.

 

 

 

I bought my MY03 Murci and converted it after a couple weeks. I drove it in RWD form for 12,000 miles and 6 years. I would NEVER EVER EVER go back to AWD. I had my LP670-4SV converted to RWD after owning it for 4 hours. I would never turn it back to AWD.

 

 

 

Keep it RWD and enjoy; let me know the tire specs you have and I can tell you the exact problem you are having assuming I didn't already point it out above.

 

 

 

Enjoy the car!

 

D. Wiggs, thanks for chiming in. Interesting that you mentioned about the tire sizes as that's what I've been scrutinizing myself.

 

Currently the setup is 355/25/19 for the rear and 255/30/19.

 

I believe the stock configuration is 335/30/18 & 245/35/18. As such, the front/rear ratio for the current setup is not quite similar to the stock ratio. By my calculation, if I simply switch the front tires from 255/30/19 to 245/30/19 then I'll have a combo that's reasonably close to the stock ratio. What do you think?

 

Now on to the traction control, I was under the impression that it would monitor the front wheel rotational speed vs. the rear wheel rotation speed and then increase/decrease power/torque distributed to front/rear where it sees fit? As such with the front differential completely off, I would imagine the traction control system will simply go wild?

 

May I also know of the exact modification that you did to yours? Did you simply take away the front differential? Did you also de-activate some sensors? I would appreciate if you can perhaps PM me your list of modification just so that I can check and see if mine was done in similar fashion? Hopefully I can use your modification as a reference for a tried-and-proven mod.

 

Last but not least, would you be kind enough to elaborate why you mentioned that: "The Murci was never designed to be RWD and, frankly, never should have been." Then later on you said: "RWD modding a Murci is the absolute best change you can make." I'm a bit confused here.

 

Thanks again in advance for sharing your wisdom. Much appreciated.

D. Wiggs, thanks for chiming in. Interesting that you mentioned about the tire sizes as that's what I've been scrutinizing myself.

 

Currently the setup is 355/25/19 for the rear and 255/30/19.

 

I believe the stock configuration is 335/30/18 & 245/35/18. As such, the front/rear ratio for the current setup is not quite similar to the stock ratio. By my calculation, if I simply switch the front tires from 255/30/19 to 245/30/19 then I'll have a combo that's reasonably close to the stock ratio. What do you think?

 

Now on to the traction control, I was under the impression that it would monitor the front wheel rotational speed vs. the rear wheel rotation speed and then increase/decrease power/torque distributed to front/rear where it sees fit? As such with the front differential completely off, I would imagine the traction control system will simply go wild?

 

May I also know of the exact modification that you did to yours? Did you simply take away the front differential? Did you also de-activate some sensors? I would appreciate if you can perhaps PM me your list of modification just so that I can check and see if mine was done in similar fashion? Hopefully I can use your modification as a reference for a tried-and-proven mod.

 

Last but not least, would you be kind enough to elaborate why you mentioned that: "The Murci was never designed to be RWD and, frankly, never should have been." Then later on you said: "RWD modding a Murci is the absolute best change you can make." I'm a bit confused here.

 

Thanks again in advance for sharing your wisdom. Much appreciated.

That front tire should help. I'm only familiar with the 19/20 setup so I cannot comment but it's worth a try. The car has absolutely no idea that it's RWD; it doesn't affect the TCS at all once the proper tire setup is chosen.

 

I removed the front diff, half-shafts, and torque tube. There are no sensors of any kind; it's an entirely mechanical (and terrible) AWD system. The AWD system was something Audi insisted on; that's what I meant by "it should never have been AWD" and making it RWD, the way the car was intended is the best mod you can make.

 

 

 

Once you get the tire setup nailed down, you'll be all set. Out of curiosity, since I looked at the 355/25/19 rear setup once, do your 255s rub in the front when you turn?

That front tire should help. I'm only familiar with the 19/20 setup so I cannot comment but it's worth a try. The car has absolutely no idea that it's RWD; it doesn't affect the TCS at all once the proper tire setup is chosen.

 

I removed the front diff, half-shafts, and torque tube. There are no sensors of any kind; it's an entirely mechanical (and terrible) AWD system. The AWD system was something Audi insisted on; that's what I meant by "it should never have been AWD" and making it RWD, the way the car was intended is the best mod you can make.

 

 

 

Once you get the tire setup nailed down, you'll be all set. Out of curiosity, since I looked at the 355/25/19 rear setup once, do your 255s rub in the front when you turn?

 

Tx again for the quick response. As to your question on the 255 front tires, I wouldn't know as I'm a bit nervous to take it out for a spin. I'll get the tires sorted soon and hopefully solve the TCS problem.

Does anyone have directions on the rear wheel drive coversion?

I wish my Gallardo SL was RWD.

I wish my Gallardo SL was RWD.

 

Trade it in on a Balboni.

 

 

Having driven both an LP 550 and LP 570 on a track back to back I can say that the 570 is much more stable and surgical and the 550 was squirrley where the 570 was surgical.

D Wiggs - Do you feel like the car wants to kill you? How much do you push it? And if the TCS is operational with the right tire sizes will it still pull you back from the brink of disaster when it can?

 

I didnt push the Carrera GT as often as I would have liked just cause the car felt like it wanted to always grab the nearest telephone pole and smash it repeatedly into my face. Would I get that same feeling going RWD?

 

Also what does that mod cost?

 

Thanks!

I forgot to mention that my murcie is 6 speed manual. In case that makes any difference.

I forgot to mention that my murcie is 6 speed manual. In case that makes any difference.

 

All Murcielago's before 2004 were 6speed manual.

D Wiggs - Do you feel like the car wants to kill you? How much do you push it? And if the TCS is operational with the right tire sizes will it still pull you back from the brink of disaster when it can?

 

I didnt push the Carrera GT as often as I would have liked just cause the car felt like it wanted to always grab the nearest telephone pole and smash it repeatedly into my face. Would I get that same feeling going RWD?

 

Also what does that mod cost?

 

Thanks!

 

Actually I'll be curious as well as to how the TCS is supposed to work given the lack of front differential. Does it simply 'reduce/increase' torque/power transmitted thru the rear differential when needed independent of whether the front differential are adjutsed or not?

I wish my Gallardo SL was RWD.

 

It's an easy 8-hour fix if you want it done!

D Wiggs - Do you feel like the car wants to kill you? How much do you push it? And if the TCS is operational with the right tire sizes will it still pull you back from the brink of disaster when it can?

 

I didnt push the Carrera GT as often as I would have liked just cause the car felt like it wanted to always grab the nearest telephone pole and smash it repeatedly into my face. Would I get that same feeling going RWD?

 

Also what does that mod cost?

 

Thanks!

The car definitely does NOT want to kill you. I toyed with the suspension and dialed out all of the understeer (most goes away with the RWD mod to begin with) and I drove it HARD; a LOT!

 

I maxed the car out to an indicated 208MPH so I was close to 200MPH in actuality and it was every bit as stable as it was in AWD trim.

 

And yes, the TCS acts exactly the same way in RWD; if you start to 'light up' the rear wheels, the TCS cuts power and you regain traction. It doesn't bend the laws of physics but you get the idea.

 

I forgot to mention that my murcie is 6 speed manual. In case that makes any difference.

Makes none; mine was manual.

 

Actually I'll be curious as well as to how the TCS is supposed to work given the lack of front differential. Does it simply 'reduce/increase' torque/power transmitted thru the rear differential when needed independent of whether the front differential are adjutsed or not?

I believe all that the TCS ever did/does is simply cut power by monitoring the spin rates of the front versus rear wheels. That's why the tire size is important even after RWD. The car thinks that the front wheels are spinning (or the rear based on rolling diameters) and doesn't know that the front wheels aren't driven wheels anymore so it kicks in and cuts power. The TCS system doesn't act any differently.

 

 

 

 

 

The thing to remember is that this is simply an 8-hour labor cost mod. And, if you don't like it, it's totally reversible. The thing to remember is, coat the 'open' parts on the car so that they do not rust so that when (and if) you ever go back to AWD (which you never should), there is no corrosion to be cleaned off or worried about.

 

I drove the car with TCS off every second for 6 years because I wanted wider tires up front. I drove the hell out of the car on the highway and back roads and it never got hairy once. When I went hard off the line and would spin the rears, it was a predictable slide to the right due to torque steer. It is easily countered with a little steering correction and the car would fully hook higher up in 2nd. This is also because I removed the entire exhaust system (another 160lbs.), had a new carbon fibre clutch, and an ECM tune so I was putting out 525RWHP.

 

Try the mod; it might cost a couple hundred bucks but it's the best mod in the world for the car. A local guy did it to his and hasn't gone back in 3 years. The straight pipe exhaust system is the second best mod

 

Enjoy!

Can't you just remove the drive shafts?

 

Can't you just remove the drive shafts?

 

half shafts, tq tube, and front diff and you're all done.

D. Wiggs, great info!!

 

I just assumed that my 03 Murcie (RWD conversion already done) TCS was just not going to work properly at all... due to the conversion.

 

So I just have been driving with the TCS button in the off position. It is horrible when on....undrivable.

 

So here is where I need your help....My 03 Murcie has the updated factory Lambo Hercules 18" wheels from a newer year model.

 

My tire size is: Rear 335/30/18 Front 245/35/18

Using theese wheels, what tire size would I need to make the TCS system happy?

Thanks

Ted

D. Wiggs, great info!!

 

I just assumed that my 03 Murcie (RWD conversion already done) TCS was just not going to work properly at all... due to the conversion.

 

So I just have been driving with the TCS button in the off position. It is horrible when on....undrivable.

 

So here is where I need your help....My 03 Murcie has the updated factory Lambo Hercules 18" wheels from a newer year model.

 

My tire size is: Rear 335/30/18 Front 245/35/18

Using theese wheels, what tire size would I need to make the TCS system happy?

Thanks

Ted

 

Now that is interesting as this is actually the stock configuration according to my owner's manual....

D. Wiggs, great info!!

 

I just assumed that my 03 Murcie (RWD conversion already done) TCS was just not going to work properly at all... due to the conversion.

 

So I just have been driving with the TCS button in the off position. It is horrible when on....undrivable.

 

So here is where I need your help....My 03 Murcie has the updated factory Lambo Hercules 18" wheels from a newer year model.

 

My tire size is: Rear 335/30/18 Front 245/35/18

Using theese wheels, what tire size would I need to make the TCS system happy?

Thanks

Ted

That IS odd because my car, nor any other RWD I know of, has ever had a problem with the stock tire configuration or with a 235/35/19 Front & 345/25/20 Rear. You're sure on the tire size? The TCS system has nothing to do with the AWD system so something independent is going on there.

 

Now that is interesting as this is actually the stock configuration according to my owner's manual....

 

Exactly.

I have NO IDEA what the stock tire and wheel size was. The wheels on my 03 Murcie are from a much later year Murcie, different diameter... (18 inch)

My tire size is: Rear 335/30/18 Front 245/35/18

I have NO IDEA what the stock tire and wheel size was. The wheels on my 03 Murcie are from a much later year Murcie, different diameter... (18 inch)

My tire size is: Rear 335/30/18 Front 245/35/18

 

 

I'm wondering if maybe there is an offset issue or something because I had an '03 Murci with those exact tires and no issues. Then went to the new setup and had no issues. Only when I went to the wider 245/35/19 front did I have any issues.

I'm wondering if maybe there is an offset issue or something because I had an '03 Murci with those exact tires and no issues. Then went to the new setup and had no issues. Only when I went to the wider 245/35/19 front did I have any issues.

Yours were on 18" wheels on your 03?

Yours were on 18" wheels on your 03?

 

 

All Murcis from '02 to '10 have 18s