1985 Downdraft Countach QV For Sale

CountachQV, welcome and please post some pics of your car.

Hmmmm, not much difference between the lp400 and a Euro QV.

I'm glad.

Always thought they were worlds apart in acceleration, handling and ride.

 

Can anyone else add to this comparison?

Yes.... they are worlds apart if the QV is in proper tune and set up.

CountachQV, welcome and please post some pics of your car.

 

Welcome

 

Please post some photos when you have time QV downdraft is an awsome car.

CTs with carbs, it does not get any better :mrgreen:

LP 400 (clean C/T) is beginning to take off in value.

 

 

I would think a LP 400 is worth more than the downdraft car, given equal condition cosmetically and mechanically.

LP 400 (clean C/T) is beginning to take off in value.

 

 

I would think a LP 400 is worth more than the downdraft car, given equal condition cosmetically and mechanically.

 

Thats a tough call. Both are very desireable and going up in value. :roll:

LP 400 (clean C/T) is beginning to take off in value.

 

 

I would think a LP 400 is worth more than the downdraft car, given equal condition cosmetically and mechanically.

 

With these two very different Countach's it all comes down to individual desire. So many of the people who 'REALLY' covet the clean, smooth, undisturbed look of the LP400 see the later cars as an abomination with all of the body add ons. At the very least the LP400 fanatic would never pay top dollar for the "S" models. Most "S" model fanatics see the LP400 as a great car, but for them the flares, wings, and arches complete the car and create a very bad ass looking machine out of a great start. There are very few people who covet both models in the same way. Most who love the Countach would own either, but the money they would be willing to pay in order to do so would be very different.

 

Right now the Countach is not the Miura, where even non-enthusiast will pay crazy money for them. Its either because they see it as an investment or because it's coveted by the automotive masses as one of the most beautiful cars ever created, (no one ever says "either you love it or you hate it", like they do with the Countach. With the Miura everybody loves it). Those buyers pay that money for them because they have to have one in their collection just because it's a Miura. Very few fanatics who just dreamt of driving one as a youngster will pay $450,000+ in order to do so.

 

The Countach is still changing hands between people who just have to have one, not collectors who see them as anything more. That may or may not change in the future like the Miura, but the ones who do want one are finding them harder and harder to find. So many of them never see the open market or the Japanese have taken them never to be seen on our shores again. They are also at an age where either you pay a premium because the car as been restored, or more likely you pay market value and the car needs some aspect of it restored, rebuilt or both. At that point you now have paid market value plus sunk another $10,000 to $30,000+ into it and if you have to get rid of it you may never recover the investment. This makes the Countach a tough market to evaluate. It's also why the people who are buying them are people who just have to have one. Also it's why the rarer cars like the LP400 the S1's and the Downdrafts are going up in value. If a buyer is going to take a chance with the cost-rebuild-investment aspect of the car at this time they are more willing to put their money into one of these three rising star models.

LP 400 (clean C/T) is beginning to take off in value.

 

 

I would think a LP 400 is worth more than the downdraft car, given equal condition cosmetically and mechanically.

 

With these two very different Countach's it all comes down to individual desire. So many of the people who 'REALLY' covet the clean, smooth, undisturbed look of the LP400 see the later cars as an abomination with all of the body add ons. At the very least the LP400 fanatic would never pay top dollar for the "S" models. Most "S" model fanatics see the LP400 as a great car, but for them the flares, wings, and arches complete the car and create a very bad ass looking machine out of a great start. There are very few people who covet both models in the same way. Most who love the Countach would own either, but the money they would be willing to pay in order to do so would be very different.

 

Right now the Countach is not the Miura, where even non-enthusiast will pay crazy money for them. Its either because they see it as an investment or because it's coveted by the automotive masses as one of the most beautiful cars ever created, (no one ever says "either you love it or you hate it", like they do with the Countach. With the Miura everybody loves it). Those buyers pay that money for them because they have to have one in their collection just because it's a Miura. Very few fanatics who just dreamt of driving one as a youngster will pay $450,000+ in order to do so.

 

The Countach is still changing hands between people who just have to have one, not collectors who see them as anything more. That may or may not change in the future like the Miura, but the ones who do want one are finding them harder and harder to find. So many of them never see the open market or the Japanese have taken them never to be seen on our shores again. They are also at an age where either you pay a premium because the car as been restored, or more likely you pay market value and the car needs some aspect of it restored, rebuilt or both. At that point you now have paid market value plus sunk another $10,000 to $30,000+ into it and if you have to get rid of it you may never recover the investment. This makes the Countach a tough market to evaluate. It's also why the people who are buying them are people who just have to have one. Also it's why the rarer cars like the LP400 the S1's and the Downdrafts are going up in value. If a buyer is going to take a chance with the cost-rebuild-investment aspect of the car at this time they are more willing to put their money into one of these three rising star models.

 

Very well written and 100% on the money IMHO. However I do think part of the reason why supply is getting so tight is the enthusiast (Romandad, SuperX, 87-Countach, Peter K ,me , ect) are buying them and not reselling them. The people that have wanted the cars are getting them and keeping them. Every time one of us that buys a Countach takes that car is off the market for a very long time. The guy I bought my car from has 40+ cars and keeps them a couple years before he sells and goes on to something else. Now it seems like a lot of the Countach are going to people that want their dream car and do not have the huge collection. (ie 1-3 "toy cars") Miuras are going to collector with large collections.

 

I know the only reason I would sell mine is if a better one came along at the right price

I have always wanted to have a serious conversation about the Countach pecking order.

 

 

I feel that the LP 400 clean Countach, is worth slightly more than the downdraft Weber QV auto. Obviously the 75-77 LP 400, is for the most part, a different car completly from the later 85-89 cars. The car is very rare, in that only 150 were built. By this time, most cars will have needed a total mechanical and cosmetic restoration. In Europe when they do come up forsale, they appear to be priced in and around 120K+ Euros. That is beyond the price of a Euro QV car in Europe.

 

As far as the other cars in the USA, between the years 78-88, they appear to be priced quite similar. The F.I. QV cars have a small premium on top of the 2 valve cars. Of course since the F.I. QV cars were built later, and their is less potential to screw up the engines tune, they seem to generally be available in better mechanical condition. The Anniv cars, which most feel are the least attractive of the series (this includes me), commands on paper, a slight premium over the typical F.I. QV cars. It may also have something to do with the ease, in finding a very low mile Anniv car. I have heard stories of investors who bought Anniv cars, and threw away the keys.

 

Unfortunately or fortunately the LP 400S1 lowbody and LP 400S2 do not command a premium over any of the other 2 valve cars. I do understand that the Countach enthusiast, who knows what is going on, may actually seek out these special undiscovered hard-core Countach automobiles. However the market has not put a premium on these cars. The published value for these cars, does not show a premium over any of the other 2 valve cars. I do see the rare value of these cars. I know the Countach fanatic, is aware of these rare cars. The typical Countach buyer, has not understood the rarity and single-minded nature of these cars.

 

Take ten Countach buyers standing in line, with 75,000 in their pocket. 8 out of 10, will not know the difference between any of the 2 valve cars, except of course when it comes to the LP 400. The majority of those buyers, will simply want a good mechanical car, in the color of their dreams. They are for the most part, not trying to locate a special particular Countach. I doubt one would look for either a 2 valve or QV, in lieu of locating a decent car in the correct color and within their budget.

 

It is very difficult to determine the exact value between the early LP 400 and downdraft Weber car, within the USA. The two of these models, rarely come available on the market. In Europe, the LP 400 is priced at the top of the pole. Their are some collectors, who seek only the clean Countach car.

 

I feel a LP 400 will command a slight premium, over a similar downdraft QV Weber car in the USA. - Given equal mechanical and cosmetic condition. Of course their are people who are waiting for a downdraft U.S. QV owner, to sell their vehicle. I also know that alot of the downdraft Weber QV U.S. car owner's, keep in touch together. The typical Countach buyer, will only know the difference between a 2 valve and a 4 valve (outside of the LP 400).

 

In other words their are two Countach series cars, the clean LP 400, and all the other Countach autos with the 345 series tires and wheel flares.

 

_____

 

 

I like every single one (except the Anniv cars ). You can write a hardback book, just on the Countach interior variations. Amazing car.

I have always wanted to have a serious conversation about the Countach pecking order.

 

 

The Anniv cars, which most feel are the least attractive of the series (this includes me), commands on paper, a slight premium over the typical F.I. QV cars. It may also have something to do with the ease, in finding a very low mile Anniv car. I have heard stories of investors who bought Anniv cars, and threw away the keys.

 

 

 

In other words their are two Countach series cars, the clean LP 400, and all the other Countach autos with the 345 series tires and wheel flares.

 

_____

 

 

I like every single one (except the Anniv cars ). You can write a hardback book, just on the Countach interior variations. Amazing car.

 

I agree, but think there are 3 series of Countach with the Anniv car being the 3rd. I really believe that if you had one car of each series in the same condition the LP400 would be worth the most, but the Anniv would be worth the least. Maybe it is the amount of Anniv or maybe it is the look. I do not know. I would bet there is not one pre Anniv owner on this site who would trade his car for an Anniv in the same condition. I know I would not, and I bought a model that is pretty low on the CT ladder. I do not mean this to offend anniv owner, I would love to have an Anniv in addition to a S.

 

Are there any (non Anniv) CT owners on this site who would trade "apples to apples" for an Anniv car?

Hi Ralfabco - did a pretty good summary - and agree with practically all your points - especially those to the 25th!

 

Looking at the market from a different prospective, here in Europ Countach prices have increased from the €45.000-€50.000 of 5 years ago to the current €65.000-€70.000 (consider also that the Euro US$ exchange rate fluctuated about 37% in favor of the Euro during this period). If purchasing in Europe, and considering US$, in 2000 a Countach 5 yrs ago was valued at about $37,000 and today you need at least $80.000.

 

None-the-less I believe that there are a few important collector cars that are still significantly undervalued; the Countach is one of them. The others are the 365 GT BB, the 512BB and the Testarossa. This lot are actually priced equal to 308GTB in fiberglass and cost less than a 246 GT.

 

With the price of new exotics going through the roof, these cars that did raise the bar of performance in their day, will surely increase in value in the next 2 to 5 years.

 

Lastly, the Countach is one of those cars that are worth restoring. To restore an Urraco has to be considered an act of love - it will be extremely difficult that it would be economically feasible to do so.

 

My 2 cents.

 

Alex

 

PS am keeping mine too!

I have always wanted to have a serious conversation about the Countach pecking order.

 

 

The Anniv cars, which most feel are the least attractive of the series (this includes me), commands on paper, a slight premium over the typical F.I. QV cars. It may also have something to do with the ease, in finding a very low mile Anniv car. I have heard stories of investors who bought Anniv cars, and threw away the keys.

 

 

 

In other words their are two Countach series cars, the clean LP 400, and all the other Countach autos with the 345 series tires and wheel flares.

 

_____

 

 

I like every single one (except the Anniv cars ). You can write a hardback book, just on the Countach interior variations. Amazing car.

 

I agree, but think there are 3 series of Countach with the Anniv car being the 3rd. I really believe that if you had one car of each series in the same condition the LP400 would be worth the most, but the Anniv would be worth the least. Maybe it is the amount of Anniv or maybe it is the look. I do not know. I would bet there is not one pre Anniv owner on this site who would trade his car for an Anniv in the same condition. I know I would not, and I bought a model that is pretty low on the CT ladder. I do not mean this to offend anniv owner, I would love to have an Anniv in addition to a S.

 

Are there any (non Anniv) CT owners on this site who would trade "apples to apples" for an Anniv car?

 

 

double post

 

delete please

I have always wanted to have a serious conversation about the Countach pecking order.

 

 

The Anniv cars, which most feel are the least attractive of the series (this includes me), commands on paper, a slight premium over the typical F.I. QV cars. It may also have something to do with the ease, in finding a very low mile Anniv car. I have heard stories of investors who bought Anniv cars, and threw away the keys.

 

 

 

In other words their are two Countach series cars, the clean LP 400, and all the other Countach autos with the 345 series tires and wheel flares.

 

_____

 

 

I like every single one (except the Anniv cars ). You can write a hardback book, just on the Countach interior variations. Amazing car.

 

I agree, but think there are 3 series of Countach with the Anniv car being the 3rd. I really believe that if you had one car of each series in the same condition the LP400 would be worth the most, but the Anniv would be worth the least. Maybe it is the amount of Anniv or maybe it is the look. I do not know. I would bet there is not one pre Anniv owner on this site who would trade his car for an Anniv in the same condition. I know I would not, and I bought a model that is pretty low on the CT ladder. I do not mean this to offend anniv owner, I would love to have an Anniv in addition to a S.

 

Are there any (non Anniv) CT owners on this site who would trade "apples to apples" for an Anniv car?

 

 

The Anniv cars command a premium, due to the ease in finding a mint unused car. Their are quite a few cars with less than 2,000 miles. Their are brand NEW Anniv cars. Given a beater QV and a beater Anniv car, the values are for the most part identical. However their are probably so few cars before 89, with very few miles still around.

 

Of course Chysler screwed up a beautiful thing !

Hi Ralfabco - did a pretty good summary - and agree with practically all your points - especially those to the 25th!

 

Looking at the market from a different prospective, here in Europ Countach prices have increased from the €45.000-€50.000 of 5 years ago to the current €65.000-€70.000 (consider also that the Euro US$ exchange rate fluctuated about 37% in favor of the Euro during this period). If purchasing in Europe, and considering US$, in 2000 a Countach 5 yrs ago was valued at about $37,000 and today you need at least $80.000.

 

None-the-less I believe that there are a few important collector cars that are still significantly undervalued; the Countach is one of them. The others are the 365 GT BB, the 512BB and the Testarossa. This lot are actually priced equal to 308GTB in fiberglass and cost less than a 246 GT.

 

With the price of new exotics going through the roof, these cars that did raise the bar of performance in their day, will surely increase in value in the next 2 to 5 years.

 

Lastly, the Countach is one of those cars that are worth restoring. To restore an Urraco has to be considered an act of love - it will be extremely difficult that it would be economically feasible to do so.

 

My 2 cents.

 

Alex

 

PS am keeping mine too!

 

 

Alex

 

The European market is quite different from the U.S. The Diablo in Europe, is priced much less than the US. The Countach in the US, is priced much less than Europe.

 

Testarossa autos, were over produced. Their are 7,700 running around. You can find a running and driving Testarossa, for low 40s retail. Of course that is a 50,000 mile car, has been hit, cheap repairs, same twenty year old brake fluid, no service records/books/tools, beat up interior, and 7 previous owners. A nice 328 is very close in price, in comparison to the price of a nice Testarossa. Some 328 autos, are worth more than a similar Testarossa.

 

It can cost 100K+, to do a nut and bolt total restoration on a Countach.

Very true, hard to compare "apples to apples" when lots of the Anniv car are in showroom condition. I guess that skews the average price.

 

I love that you can buy an excellent Countach for far less then the $100k people are giving for the C-6 Z-ooh-6. ( EDIT or restore a Testarossa )

 

What a great time to be alive :mrgreen:

Guys, I live 20 minutes from this downdraft. I was wanting to check it out but haven't yet. If anyone has a legitimate list of things they want to know or see on it I'll do my best for you.

 

Bill

Having a fair amount of experience with the LP400, and having owned my downdraft for quite a while now, I can offer these two cents:

 

They are such different cars that my brain short circuits and starts to smoke when I consider which one I actually like better. I don't think I can give you a preference.

 

The LP400 is MUCH lighter (thinner metal on the chassis tubing, loits of magnesium, thinner aluminum on the body work), and feels much more lithe and nimble. It's hard to describe just how much this improves the feel of a car. Astoundingly stable at high speed (I have video at an extremely high speed and you can see just how rock solid it is).

 

The Downdraft has a whole different feel. Much more lateral grip afforded by those steamrollers of tires, more developed chassis afforded by additional years of design development and able to use later tire technology, torque that is dramatically higher.

 

Those who love the LP400 for its looks only don't realize what a potent car it really is (again, as always, when properly set up and tuned). Those who haven't experience a well set up downdraft don't realize how much difference and development there had been by that time.

 

By 1986-1987, the development curve stopped, then went backwards IMHO, such that all additional work was done to make the car more comfortable and appealing to a broader market rather than for performance. That's when things really started appearing for no other reason than to differentiate model years and provide a reason to buy the new model (again, just MHO, and this is NOT to say those later cars weren't just as good).

 

Okay, maybe that was 3 cents.

Per request from some of you here are the pics in My garage

 

http://www.lambo-power.com/phpBB2/viewtopi...p=152005#152005

 

The discussion on the 400 and QV is right on. My feeling is everthing equal from the car a 400 is 20K-25K more that the QV in the US . In europe probalby more because the downdraft is the euro model and out of about 350 downdraft probably 200 are over there (rest in US and Japan). And yes some lambo guys do love both because they have different appeals

The 400s model is fascinating because it appears to me as a blend. I do love the look .. but .. watch out these road bumps doing the spoiler! I would not attempt driving a 400s I do my QV at very high speed. I am not worried about road imperfections being happy on the pedal. I heard of a guy doing 140mph going to NY city in "amicable-racing" with a special prepped Alfa (being responsible, we dont do that ourself, of course, although we know we could)

Back to the original 85 Red/Tan QV for sale. I feel it a duty to find out what the Vin is and where it ends up in the US.

 

Here are the collectively known carb QV Red/Tan in the US:

 

FLA12869

FLA12884

FLA12897

GLA12917 (Jay Leno)

GLA12986

HLA12078

and

GLA12902 (Red but black Interior)

 

 

I emailed the seller already but if anyone can help trace the car to see if we have one more here, that’ll be great. It does not appear that the car fit any of the ones above. so we could have 8 Red Euro QV in the US and 7 with Tan interior (Per factory specs of course)

CountachQV!!!!!!

How have you been? I drove up your street back in the summer/fall and saw a for sale sign. Thought maybe you moved, unless it was one of the homes in front of you.

Shame that we didn't get together at all last season. Hopefully in the spring.

I will double check my records at work, but I did a restore on the red/black car 2 years ago.

I should also have the vin for the one for sale, he is also a client.

Their was a White/Red 85 QV Weber downdraft lower quality driver, that was forsale on Ebay, about a year or two ago. I (believe) it was forsale in the Pittsburgh area.

 

 

I think it sold for around 65K.

Hey Peter! The "for sale" was the lot next to my house. They are building another house. Been very busy since poconos 2004 wiht various things. Also having issue with CT emission. May need to register out of state. I may also need help on that. These bastards cashed my check but told me they cannot send the sticker until I comply. Nice going. Despite many efforts, I cannot go thru this overbloated bureaucracy even with some people willing to help. I will not put cats back on this car and watch it burn and me with it. A downdraft is not made to have cats, only an ANSA sport or equivalent. I am so sick of this state :twisted:

Note your car in one of the pics I posted. We do need to get toghether. I heared there is a new guy in CT with an Injected Red countach.

Merry Xmas

Their was a White/Red 85 QV Weber downdraft lower quality driver, that was forsale on Ebay, about a year or two ago.     I (believe) it was forsale in the Pittsburgh area.

 

 

I think it sold for around 65K.

 

I drove that car years ago when it was for sale with a dealer in Florida. It was pretty rough, was going to need some pretty serious mechanical going-through.

 

When it most recently sold (year or two ago) it went to Japan. I have the VIN in the notes I took when I looked at it.

Well, you could always buy or borrow cats for the test and remove them. Pain the ass but.....you'll be good for two years and before you know it you'll be exempt in a couple years.