chaparralman

A heated thread indeed, I must say that I have personally seen this car come together and come from a road racing, fabrication, and restoration background as well. To everyone playing the hater roll I must point out that while Covert Tuning Dynamics brought "Stig" to this event, it really wasn't its world debut. Covert Tuning kindly sponsored the Pittsburgh Cars and Coffee event at the hanger and the effort to bring Stig was more of a teaser/local showing. Naturally, in this day and age information travels very fast.... The Pittsburgh guys are truely awesome car people and a lot of fun too. I am certain the CTD guys wanted to help give them a great party and indeed the event was excellent and I have been to my fair share of upscale automotive functions. Regarding the car..... This is their monster prototype build and they have their sights set high. Naturally. Having carefully looked at the inner workings of the build, I can tell you that their workmanship is indeed world caliber. Especially when you consider this is a prototytpe vehicle. I can also say that the quality of welding I have seen is actually better than the welding I have witnessed on the factory Mercedes DTM race cars. The packaging is excellent and the work is inspired. What will it do?... Covert Tuning like any other world class tuning company or racing team pushes boundrys. We all know it takes money to go fast, but it is the ingenuity, drive, and passion for success that sets people and businesses apart. Regardless of the hurdles the CTD guys may face, it is my personal opinion that they will overcome them in stride from my experiences with their people. Rest assured that they will turn out high quality work. How to bet?... Clearly, I think you should bet against them. Really. ....but that's because I want a bigger payout since my money is on them.

Hi guys, Just wondered if anyone has any leads on getting tires for Countachs now? I've read the old threads and am having no luck. I have some spare rears, but would really rather get some fresh tires for all corners. What will the future hold for our tires? Will Coker pick them up? Thanks all

Actually, The car checks out as one of the few that is kosher to sell in the States. This was a project done in direct collaboration with the factory. I understand the idea of putting carbs back on, but to do so would be wrong as you would be erasing the most important part of this car's history. It is not one of the cobbled together private shop systems to BS pass US regulations. This is a legitimate car done specifically for the Lamborghini factory so that they could copy it for the future factory fuel injection systems. IE, why it went back to Lamborghini in 84 where they finalized the front and rear designs and copied the injection system. Notice the prototype plenum is plain where the factory plenums are finned and say Lamborghini, but still are the same basic design. I've been told first hand that this car was also the first where they convinced the factory to start using valve seals and a more appropriate piston ring tension.

The internet and forums are a crazy place. Regardless of your thoughts or opinions. I thought some of you may enjoy this comedic video. Beware the internet trolls.... they bait you and feed on negative reactions

There are no words.....

Such an argument... And a worthwhile one to have, truly. My vantage point was pricing it as a milestone car in Lamborghini history. That which it is. Let's start here... The car was originally a carburetted Euro version 1982. At the least, with no history, it is worth what a nice carbbed '82 5 litre is. That being said, it is also a milestone car which at the least would command a premium. My thoughts... It is the first fuel injected Lambo. That is a serious stone in the Lamboghini family tree. You must look beyond just Countachs. A comparison. Let's say one could buy a late 70's 4 litre 2 valve car for 350K. Great.... It is the same basic thing as mine with a smaller engine and no history.... You say, they made less of those than the injected.... I say, really? They made less than one? Look, I am not here to argue. Lord knows I have other things to do and I am sure you as well. I am only giving a look into the logic behind it. My feelings that a milestone in the Lambo family tree has value is in no way a detriment to the marque nor is it insulting to any example of that marque. Worse comes to worse, I have a milestone Lamborghini that is a blast to drive! There is a lot to be said for having the first fuel injected Lamborghini period. Thanks for all your help thus far guys. I have enjoyed learning more about our cars and have generally had a great experience. Casey

Apologies, but this is incorrect. Ther were indeed factory injected 2 valve cars.

Ok guys. First off, it is silly for people who own these cars to be bashing anyone who feels they are more valuable. The car has history. It is not the typical Countach. The car started as a carburetted car and that is what it originally was. Recently a '78 4 litre car sold for 350k. I know first hand. Prices are moving. The very idea that the car is worth low 100's is very shortsighted. I would appeal to everyone to let private messages remain private and to use the same gentlemanly condut online that we strive for in the real world. Again, if you own one of these cars be happy that anyone feels they are worth more

Guys, Yes, I posted my prototype Countach for sale. Here is what is behind that. The car has worth while history and is an excellent example. If it doesn't sell, then the worst thing that happens is that I have a great Lamborghini to enjoy. Truth is that because of the value of the history, I would not consider a strait-up trade for basically any other Countach that isn't some special one off or part of Lamborghini history. Price was put accordingly. That being said, I dearly LOVE Lamborghini and Countachs. I do enjoy the community both in the real world and here on this great forum. I look forward every moment I get to spend with Lambos in some form and am typing this after a great drive that I just took on a beautiful spring day. See you guys on the road! Casey

Interesting. Originally silver over blue then? Would be interesting to see.

Just go to www.putschracing.com to the multimedia page and watch the video of the car at the gas station. You can see the exhaust in the beginning.

Love your car man! Great color combo and glad you drive it

No the car is exactly as it left the factory last in like 84-85 in all ways. Except tires, some little misc tune/maintenance stuff, and my exhaust. I will be retaining its worthwhile history as the prototype configuration. My interior is honestly perfect. The leather is supple, un worn/cracked and with no shrinkage. The paint is also very very fine and not chipped. Shoot me a message if you ever want any help with your car.

My car originally had the big heavy Countach "box" exhaust then modified with cats when it became the prototype. Even through the car is special, I could not stomach no exhaust note. I removed the system (unbolted only) and made a bolt on system that consists of two Supertraps (very 80's) to each bank. I then made a cradle that supports the new mufflers and uses the stock Lamborghini exhaust mounting points. I can easily bolt the old exhaust back on. This is the one thing I had to change for the enjoyment of driving and it did make a large difference in waking up some perkiness too. I will actually be restoring the original exhaust system shortly when I attend to more detail and tuning work on the car.

Funny! There is a model of the car in its original form. That car was the only in this color combination and configuration.

Well said...

My sincere apologies. I knew some crazies in the F-Chat world and am a bit gun shy. Thanks again, it's nice to be talking with intelligent enthusiasts.

Actually, I may be taking a while to compile this report on the history. I am reading letters now and it is clear that this car was at the beginning and the epicenter of a war involving many different people, the EPA, Chrysler, and Lamborghini, etc. I sure as heck want this to be accurate. It will ruffle feathers. Casey

No need for stick throwing. I only mean that the carbbed cars have different compression and cams. They are the biggest factor in the ability for an engine to make power at its core. It is indeed true that EFI is better than carbs and Bosch CIS FI as long as an EMP doesn't go off. I was only making the point that there is more to making power than just EFI. I was not discrediting his statement in anyway. As for my car.... It is the first fuel injected Lamborghini. It was directly commissioned by the factory and used as an exact template for the cars to come. Your statement is simply untrue and the people that were involved with lamborghini at the time that are still alive and some that are not that would be very angry at that statement. Interestingly, I have letters from those that have passed that will address your statement. In a way I wish the car did not have significance as I would like to ad my own personal touches and I would be more inclined to drive it like crazy. Naturally, with a car that has significance, it is important to preserve it as well as one can and not to modify it in any large way as it is indeed significant in the story of Lamborghini. Still compiling the history. Hang on guys, there is a lot to go through and I want it all to be accurate. I'm really not BSing that there is some serious stuff here. Casey

I'm sure it was quite noticeable, but there is a lot more to it than just that. Adam Corolla... Seriously, is there an emoti-con for an eye roll? Don't waste your time with that guy, here's a smarter and funnier spokes person that personally owns special cars from over 100 years of history. If anybody should talk about one..... http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/1986-l...untach-/849581/

Cams baby! So interesting how in the Ferrari world most people prefer the injected 308's and 512bb's over the Carbs for thought of drivability and reliability. Let's not open that can of worms though. Just pointing it out Thanks Jim

Hi guys, Converting a Countach to webbers is really not difficult. The most difficult part is simply sourcing or fabricating the manifolds.... However, what people don't understand is that Bosch CIS FI cars have different cams and compression than carbbed cars. That is a big difference in power over just simply having and FI system. The deal is that the CIS FI cars of the 80's are very sensitive to vacuum. Carbbed cars have "racier" camshafts with more overlap. That requires more compression. Very radical camshafts (not street cars typically) can totally screw with having worthwhile vacuum. So.... If you change your CIS FI car back to carbs, that is cool, but won't necessarily make much more or possibly any more power without pairing that with cams, compression, different cam/ignition timing, proper manifold runner length, worthwhile headers, etc., bla, bla. I am an old school racer and dig carbs, but even the old injection systems on our cars as well as those dumb F-cars have the merit of being super reliable if you just drive the cars relatively regularly. Which is what I want to do the most anyway. Where am I going with this? Simple, if you want to change to carbs, ask your self "why?". If the answer is more power, then are you prepared to get different cams and have head work done or potentially new pistons, etc. ? At which point, you probably will miss the civil nature of a good FI system. Personally, the only Countachs that I would consider putting back to carbs are the cars that were done by private individuals or businesses just to try and meet emissions behind official backs. Such a shame it took them till the Diablo to go to Electronic FI, they could have been making more power much sooner . Ok, so you want more power on your Countach...... I can't remember the last time someone didn't wish for more power, but the truth is that if you have to modify the bejesus out of your cars to make them more like what you want, then you probably want a different car. I mean... I have a Viper so I can steer with my right foot and be a general hooligan, but my advice... you already have a Countach for god's sake, so blast the best 70's-80's music you can find and have fun! If you still want more power, give me a call. I'm a purist though and like to keep things period correct. Either I or someone I know can help you out. To be honest, the thought of putting a Murcie derived drivetrain in a CT has at least crossed my mind. Ok guys, I'll be writing up a big report on the full history of the Injection Prototype Countach soon that includes more information and history about Lamborghini, Lamborghini North America, the EPA, Chrysler, Ford, Many key players and some great old school stories. Casey www.putschracing.com

Kidzvillage, I know what the deal is with you having the same plenum as my prototype car. I've been doing a lot of research of the history of these FI cars.... With out getting into everything JUST yet...., your car was built after the fact (not by the factory or the guys at Rarwalla's shop) using the extra plenums that were cast when they made my car. It costs almost nothing more to make a few more rather than one, so extras are always a bright idea.... After Chrysler bought Lamborghini, Trefor Thomas and Jas Rarwalla rather got screwed regarding importing Lambos into the country by Chrysler. Their Lambo business was shot in he mid-80's and they sold all their spare parts out to Bill Young who had GT Car Parts. From the first hand account, it would seem that your car was built later using the plenums back from my car's prototype project. By whom, I do not know. I was told there were 3-5 extras made. Any thoughts? As a very small summary, with MUCH more to come: My car was the first FI Lamborghini. It was commissioned by the factory to Rarewalla and Trefor Thomas. The car was used to (honestly) pass all emission tests in the US and for tests in Europe. The bumpers were done in the States and then Lambo factory did some final style tweaking to it. The factory DID build 5 litre, 2 valve injected Countachs modeled exactly after this one, with very very minor differences. The silver car is indeed the first official Lamborghini factory (with obvious help from the US and by help I mean they built it for them) Fuel Injected car that passed all the tests and was the model for the cars to come from the factory. Not sure on the exact number yet. I have heard different accounts that range from mid-30's to 50's. Will report on that later. Sadley/Amazingliy, there was a BIG push from some of the bright minds to do Electronic FI rather than Bosch CIS mechanical. That would have been an even bigger leap forward, but for numerous reasons (not just engineering) they did not. I have also learned that while we know there is MUCH genius in Lamborghini engines, there were some aspects that where still in the "dark ages" Things like ring tension, no valve seals, etc. More to come on that though..... I have been told that there were in fact FI systems built behind the Lamborghini factory's and the Rarwalla guy's backs here in the States. Although the number of those is quite low. It was said that there were potentially 3 shops that did that, but likely that each one only did maybe 1-4 cars. I was also told that they are easy to spot as the plenums are typically hand fabricated and there is much welding among not being very good in practice. Kidsvillage's car, while was likely built after the fact and not by Lambo, obviously was done using parts from the prototype car project and is pretty cool for that reason and I feel is more desirable than any of the non Lambo FI cars and at least more interesting than the production ones after the fact. Possibly faster too. Would love to compare notes with you to learn the history on how your car came to be. Unique indeed. SO much more to come.....

Thanks for the tip CountachQV. Yup, that was it. I just received a couple Lamborghini books and my car is pictured in them. What is cool is that there are pictures of when it was first built in its original Euro trim and then afterwards. The car definitely had the wing originally as can bee seen in the early pics. It is funny that the picture after the injection and new trim was with out the deck lid (and obviously wing) and made me think the wing was added later..... Glad I got to see the earlier shots to know the wing was on it originally. Oddly enough I like this car better with the rear bumper. The silver looks good without the color of the Euro tail and looks super 80's techy.... Cool... More to come. Casey

Very helpful indeed! That would explain why there is no rear wing in that side picture! The darn lid was off. Curious why a spare tire though on the right rear, but no big deal. Thanks!