Electronic Issue

Dear Lamborghinisiti

 

 

Well I lasted 8 months of daily driving with no "real" issues but the Lambo gods saw me working on my Ferrari and I guess I've been punished.

 

 

I have a problem with the instrument cluster gauges and warning lights "winking out" in my 97.5 VT Roadster.

 

 

When you start the car, you get all the warning lights coming on and when the car fires, the warning lights and the CEL lights go out...OK.

 

Here is the problem...

 

 

I start the car, warning lights go out...no problem. With the car running (warm or cold ) all of a sudden, all the warning lights come on then go off...then the CEL lights go off....just as if I started the car. This happened yesterday afternoon.

 

Tonight ( with it dark outside) it happened again. This time, all the cluster lights, and console lights including the climate control lights and temp reading go out....come back on and go through the sequence as if you just started the car....warning lights come on...go out....CEL lights go out.

 

I also noticed that the fuel gauge went to zero with the wink out....power out to gauges then back on....start sequence on warning lights.

 

Through all this, no miss or hiccup on engine running or power. The main headlights and outside markers and fogs were on and stayed on during the wink out.

 

I'm thinking relay but with labeling on relays being really really questionable, I thought I would ask first. Does the GFA computer control only these functions or more?

 

 

Would appreciate any thoughts.

 

 

Shamile

It could be your GFA or a bad ground. May also want to check your alternator output also along with your battery.

It could be your GFA or a bad ground. May also want to check your alternator output also along with your battery.

 

 

Thanks Adam.

 

Wouldn't the alt or battery also show up in the headlights or engine operation? Like I said, everything is running fine. When the wink out happened once, it was as I was pulling out of the garage. The headlights shining into the garage didn't even go dim or flicker as the "wink out" happened.

 

What exactly does the GFA module do. I know its called a sort of body module but what are the operation parameters and specific functions?

 

 

Shamile

I remember a person I knew with a Diablo, his would do the same thing. I think his was a ground issue. Let your car idle and see if it does it. Drive around and go over some bumps and see what happens. I betcha it's a gound wire. But don't hold me to it.

Shamile

Check the battery kill switch behind the drivers seat. Wiggle it to see if you can duplicate the problem. I've seen many of these switchs go bad, all with different wierd different problems

 

Mike

Dear Lamborghinisti,

 

 

Update....

 

 

I spoke to Mike at Evans Automotive for some pointers. Like his post says, he has seen some wired glitches with the battery switch.

 

I decided to pull the panels today and start the process of elimination.

 

First, I put some tape on my ratchet as I didn't want it touching the terminal and any metal surfaces. I couldn't pull the wheel and pull the battery as my Ferrari is still on the jack stands.

 

 

I pulled the wires off the battery switch and cleaned them to death. I put some contact cleaner ( high end stereo connector cleaner - Caig Progold ) and put the wires back. I also cleaned the connectors at the Mega fuse while I was "in there".

 

 

 

I'll now see if it still acts up. If it does, I'll put both wires on one of the switch posts which eliminates the switch and see if the problem stays or goes. If it goes, it's the switch....if not....deeper we go!

 

 

Shamile

I had a loose wire that started a whole series of "fixes". With the older Diablos, the wiring, electricals, switches. grounds-are not the most efficient.

 

Things to check:

 

grounds,

loose wire connections

alternator

relays

My 98 roadster start same way, than more frequently, and few months later the GFA died, remove dash face (4- 2 points screws), check GFA connections and groundings.

 

Shamile, I had a similar issue on a 1998, it was the battery and the Alt, however the ground issue is possible, there is a small ground post to the right behind the cluster (you have to take the cluster out to see or reach)although you *may* be able to reach it from underneath, this is the primary ground for the GFA. The GFA as you know controls all of the "cockpit" controls and lighting. you may also want to unplug and check for any corrosion or oxidation a small pencil eraser does a good job and then re-seat. Just make sure you have the Battery disconnected first. Good luck

 

Jason

Shamile, I had a similar issue on a 1998, it was the battery and the Alt, however the ground issue is possible, there is a small ground post to the right behind the cluster (you have to take the cluster out to see or reach)although you *may* be able to reach it from underneath, this is the primary ground for the GFA. The GFA as you know controls all of the "cockpit" controls and lighting. you may also want to unplug and check for any corrosion or oxidation a small pencil eraser does a good job and then re-seat. Just make sure you have the Battery disconnected first. Good luck

 

Jason

 

 

Thanks Jason. I was talking to Mike at Evans Automotive today....again. He said he's never had a problem with a GFA itself but it could be a ground to it or the power relay to the GFA tripping out.

 

Thanks for the location of the ground. I'm going there next.

 

Today I bypassed the battery switch and put both wires on one terminal. Tomorrow I'll see if I get the "tripping out". If I do, at least I know it's not the switch and will proceed to the ground on the GFA. In the mean time, Mike is looking up which relay feeds the GFA. I tell ya, Mike is the best !

 

How did your battery and alt affect the "trippin-out" Would you have gotten flickering on the headlights and driving lights as well? My dash lights, gauges and warning lights will "wink out" but the main lights are just fine....not even a hint of flicker.

 

Dear Lamborghinisti,

 

Update...

 

 

Well, the post change was good till about this afternoon.....wink blink, wink blink....like a video game from hell.

 

At least I can sorta say it's not the battery switch. Tomorrow, I'll take out the dash, and clean the GFA connectors and that ground Jason mentioned. I hope that gets it.

 

I gotta get with Mike to see if he found which relay power the GFA...perhaps a possible solution.

 

 

Shamile

 

Hi Shamile,

 

Ultimately it was the alt, as it wasn't pushing the voltage needed to run the car and charge the battery.. and the battery was trying to compensate for the low alt output... by the way this was the 5th Lambo this year using the Duralast battery that I have had to replace... I don't recommend them I wish people whould not buy these POC batteries for their Lambos... On the ground, Logan (one of my techs) said that he noticed it was on the left side of a 1996 we worked on last summer.. so you may have to hunt a little. It should have a 10mm nut on a welded stud coming off the chassis.

 

Jason

Hi Shamile,

 

Ultimately it was the alt, as it wasn't pushing the voltage needed to run the car and charge the battery.. and the battery was trying to compensate for the low alt output... by the way this was the 5th Lambo this year using the Duralast battery that I have had to replace... I don't recommend them I wish people whould not buy these POC batteries for their Lambos... On the ground, Logan (one of my techs) said that he noticed it was on the left side of a 1996 we worked on last summer.. so you may have to hunt a little. It should have a 10mm nut on a welded stud coming off the chassis.

 

Jason

 

 

Thanks Jason.

 

I use an Interstate with a Battery Tender. Even though I use the car daily, I plug it in each night and unplug it before I start it. The little green "fully charged" light is always on by morning.

 

Today, I went to start the car and in pos II before I even started the car....blink blink blink is super rapid action. All the relays were jammin ! I went to fuse panel to see if I could find one major relay clicking....but all of them were. I immediately took out the key and had my dad pick my up in my F250....haahhaahahaha ! Ferrari and Lambo in the garage and I'm driving a F 250! ....Oh the humanity !

 

....didn't feel like working on it today, worked on the Ferrari instead. Tomorrow, I take the dash out....with pix !

 

I have a bad feeling it's the GFA itself....the car wasn't started and super wink ! I don't think a bad ground or a errant wire would cause that.

 

Funny...well not really, but it was exactly a year ago I redid the headers and full exhaust on the car. Are we sure a Diablo is cheaper than a woman? I'm beginning to wonder.

 

 

Shamile

 

Try checking the ignition switch and wiring down the steering column, remove bezels around column to see if plastic sheathing around wiring didn't rub through from active use of tilt, telescoping steering column, also hows the connection to the main harness ,seen the wiring rubbing and break twice in the last five years, just a idea to check. Lambotech2

Try checking the ignition switch and wiring down the steering column, remove bezels around column to see if plastic sheathing around wiring didn't rub through from active use of tilt, telescoping steering column, also hows the connection to the main harness ,seen the wiring rubbing and break twice in the last five years, just a idea to check. Lambotech2

 

 

Good Idea !

 

I was in the dash today ( pictures to follow ) and cleaned every connection on the GFA....no go....all dash functions dead. I'll pull the column surrounds and check it out.

 

I've been working with Mike of Evans Automotive (truly helpful )and he's going to guide me to some connections behind the fuse pannel.....I'll take some pix and keep everyone informed.

 

 

 

Shamile

 

[quote name='Lambotec

Update...

 

 

Here we go....to the land of GFA.

 

 

First, since I was going to be working with the electrical components to and from the fuse box, I decided, I should take the battery cable off and not just turn off the battery switch....you know....the hard way.

 

 

Next, I laid a cloth towel on top of the column so not to scratch anything. I really want to replace that stupid rubberized paint on the column and gauge cluster with some carbon fiber pieces but since I keep spending money on mundane maintenance items...no cash left for fun stuff. .....sure sounds as expensive as a woman !

 

Once you remove the cluster and the air vent pipe, the GFA module is readily accessible. I pulled all the connectors, cleaned them to death with some high-end stereo contact cleaner and conditioner. I then pulled the module itself and cleaned the spade contacts as well.

 

I found that ground Jason ( check with our franchised dealer sponsors ) was talking about. It's at the 10 o'clock position on the frame behind the cluster just inside of the dash pod....cleaned that too.

 

I put it all back and........NOTHING ! Arrrgh ! Gauges, dash lights warning lights all dead.

 

BTW,

 

the GFA doesn't control all the gauges on the dash. Only the fuel gauge, speedo, dash illumination and warning lights are controlled by the GFA. You can use your turn signal, it will work but the arrow just doesn't show up on the dash.

 

I called Mike at Evans Automotive for some help. He suggested I do the wiggle test....no no, not me.....the wires. Put the ignition in pos II, (after you reconnect the battery ) make sure you can see the gauge cluster and then try wiggling each connector, each wire and go back up each harness a couple of inches and move back and forth.

 

Nothing.

 

He also mentioned to rap your knuckles on the GFA. I tried next to each connector, then each corner and center......Nothing !

 

Next.....the fuse box !

 

 

Shamile

Hang in there Shamile!

fuse 15 is for GFA, good luck

maybe you can do an engine out.

 

Just messing with you. I hope you find the prblem. I have been where you are: electrical problem, through a process of elimination cleaning or replacing stuff, and have no positive result.

 

Hang in there. There is ALWAYS a solution.

Shamile,

did you notice a PN on the GFA? the 1997 is a supplement year so the

Part manual shows a different GFA..but that could be wrong... I can

check to see if I have one you could borrow and test, but only if it is

the same PN as yours.

Shamile,

did you notice a PN on the GFA? the 1997 is a supplement year so the

Part manual shows a different GFA..but that could be wrong... I can

check to see if I have one you could borrow and test, but only if it is

the same PN as yours.

 

 

Thanks Jason, you and your wife Jamie are the best !

 

Here are all the numbers on the GFA

 

MY 97/A

 

6.0626A

 

GFA - MY 97 6037931 USA

 

I have a bad feeling it's the GFA but Mike at Evans Automotive has never seen a bad GFA. A good unit would be a very good test. In one fell-swoop, I can see if it's the unit or a bad connection somewhere else. And even it's the unit, what made it go bad?....bad voltage somewhere? Even if I have to buy one, it would be terrible to just put it in and six months later, it goes out.

 

 

 

Shamile

 

 

 

 

Shamile,

did you notice a PN on the GFA? the 1997 is a supplement year so the

Part manual shows a different GFA..but that could be wrong... I can

check to see if I have one you could borrow and test, but only if it is

the same PN as yours.

 

 

Thanks Jason, you and your wife Jamie are the best !

 

Here are all the numbers on the GFA

 

MY 97/A

 

6.0626A

 

GFA - MY 97 6037931 USA

 

I have a bad feeling it's the GFA but Mike at Evans Automotive has never seen a bad GFA. A good unit would be a very good test. In one fell-swoop, I can see if it's the unit or a bad connection somewhere else. And even it's the unit, what made it go bad?....bad voltage somewhere? Even if I have to buy one, it would be terrible to just put it in and six months later, it goes out.

 

 

 

Shamile

 

 

 

 

We do what we can. thanks for the kind words...

Update....

 

 

Well, I tried the suggestion of lamobtech2. I took the steering column apart and nothing was rubbing or chaffing. In fact, I was impressed that Lambo had everything tied off and running smoothly away from any snag point....no kinks in the wiring either. Oh well, it was a good time to pull all the connectors and clean everything....even removed all the dust from the column shaft.

 

 

 

 

Next, on Mike's suggestion, I went to fuse #7, #16,#21,#22,#24. He had studied the wiring diagram and all these were related to the GFA. All were good. This was based on pulling each one and using the connectivity test on a multimeter....not just looking at them.

 

On each fuse connector, I measured the voltage from on each pin, key off & key on. I gave all those figures to Mike...all in normal parameters.

 

Next he traced down the relay for the GFA which is the "main" relay. It was fine too. I did a relay swap with the same pins and it still clicked. I then did a relay bypass by connecting the 30& 87 terminals ( that connection is what is activated when the relay clicks ) and all fine.

 

OK, now to the relay board. Since it's a Lamborghini, I pulled all fuses and did a continuity check...all good. I cleaned all relay pins...all good. I then pulled the main connectors to the relay board. I checked for bent pins and pushed in receivers. I then cleaned them all and all looked good. I put the ignition in pos II and did a wiggle test on the main connectors....all good.

 

Shamile