Countach Cooling

mine water temperature never went over 87-88 °C. You MUST clean those old radiators (inside and outside) and then install those 25th vents, one each radiator: their consumption is less than any other solution with 4 vents.

 

Puller vents are by far better than pusher vents: do not use any solution with pusher vents.

 

 

ciao

use SPAL mod. VA01-AP70/LL-36A (25th fan), one each radiator. Should perfectly fit

This not the 25th fan, this is the actual one, the 25th had VA01-AP6-36A!

 

VA01-AP6-36A had an airflow of 1000 m3/h at 20mm H2O (2002)

VA01-AP70/LL-36A has an airflow of 1190 m3/h at 20mm H2O (2012)

 

VA10-AP50/C-25A had 730m3/h at 20mm H2O (2002)

VA10-AP70/C-61A has 870m3/h at 20mm H2O (2012)

 

Don't compare apples with peaches... time passed on, since 2002 also SPAL made some improvements.

Even VA10-AP50/C-25A is a better fan than the ones which were installed on LP5000s and QV (VA01 AP13 25A)

 

I uploaded the 25th original fan spec (from 2002) and the actual one of AP70, quite a difference...

 

Something which should also be considered, there are different thermostat switchs installed, I know of a LP5000s which never exceeds 85 degrees, because as soon as the water gets at 80 degrees the fans switch on, completely useless...

12Fans.pdf

12V_d305.pdf

This not the 25th fan, this is the actual one, the 25th had VA01-AP6-36A!

 

VA01-AP6-36A had an airflow of 1000 m3/h at 20mm H2O (2002)

VA01-AP70/LL-36A has an airflow of 1190 m3/h at 20mm H2O (2012)

 

VA10-AP50/C-25A had 730m3/h at 20mm H2O (2002)

VA10-AP70/C-61A has 870m3/h at 20mm H2O (2012)

 

Don't compare apples with peaches... time passed on, since 2002 also SPAL made some improvements.

Even VA10-AP50/C-25A is a better fan than the ones which were installed on LP5000s and QV (VA01 AP13 25A)

 

I uploaded the 25th original fan spec (from 2002) and the actual one of AP70, quite a difference...

 

Something which should also be considered, there are different thermostat switchs installed, I know of a LP5000s which never exceeds 85 degrees, because as soon as the water gets at 80 degrees the fans switch on, completely useless...

 

 

Sounds like the fans that Mike installed initially are my best option. I am still looking for any leads on a radiator core alternative.

It's amazing how hot my Countach runs. But then again, it is mid-year 1986 so, it only has the (2) vents in the engine hatch, unlike later in the year, when they went to not only the 2 vents in the buldges, but the one that runs down the center between the buldges. So, I am sure mine retains more heat....

 

Anyhow, during the Spring, Fall and Winter, it is very rare that the pushers kick on, unless I am in stop and go traffic for any length of time. But, in the summer... that's a whole different story. The pushers come on and off quite frequently. The pullers stay on almost 100% of the time, unless I'm moving down the freeway and keeping air blowing across the radiators.

 

Attached is a photo showing my engine hatch in case it wasn't clear what the heck I was talking about... ;-)

 

Mike

 

 

Never seen a hatch like that. I can see how things may get hotter. You pull air into the radiators and cant get it out.

This not the 25th fan, this is the actual one, the 25th had VA01-AP6-36A!

 

VA01-AP6-36A had an airflow of 1000 m3/h at 20mm H2O (2002)

VA01-AP70/LL-36A has an airflow of 1190 m3/h at 20mm H2O (2012)

 

VA10-AP50/C-25A had 730m3/h at 20mm H2O (2002)

VA10-AP70/C-61A has 870m3/h at 20mm H2O (2012)

 

Don't compare apples with peaches... time passed on, since 2002 also SPAL made some improvements.

Even VA10-AP50/C-25A is a better fan than the ones which were installed on LP5000s and QV (VA01 AP13 25A)

 

I uploaded the 25th original fan spec (from 2002) and the actual one of AP70, quite a difference...

 

Something which should also be considered, there are different thermostat switchs installed, I know of a LP5000s which never exceeds 85 degrees, because as soon as the water gets at 80 degrees the fans switch on, completely useless...

 

You can say what you want, but if you use or the old 25th fan (if you find one) or the new replacement for 25th fan (that is produced here close my home) you will never have any oveheating problem, with just two fans. They works, they are tested on all 25th cars and on mine 5000S too.

 

If you use a fan with a too low air flow, car will overheat even if it switch on at 50 degrees...

 

If you go to Lamborghini dealer and ask for a 25th fan they of course he will give you the improved actual AP70...

 

As not many owner clean the inner part of the radiator (its not easy) i suggest to use the best fan available that fits: it is the 25th fan, new or old version. The newer is better, the older is enough but is no more availabe: is this ok?

 

I often choose what fan to use (not for the Countach, of course) in my job.

 

ciao

 

 

One of the biggest improvements that I noticed on my car after replacing the fans, was the amount of electrical current draw when the fans would run. As Albert has pointed out, the original units were power hogs! Consider that each fan was pulling nearly 27 amps. So, with 2 fans running, you were pushing 54 amps through a BOSCH relay designed to handle about 40 amps! No wonder the relays got hot and melted the plastic boxes. With the newer SPAL fans, both fans can be running and you are pushing around 32 amps through each relay.

 

First time the new fans kicked on after I had installed them, you could see the difference in the volt gauge! Before, when the fans would come on the needle would drop almost into the red zone, and with all 4 running, it was in the red! Now with the new fans, all 4 can be running, I can have the A/C fan blowing, parking lights on, etc. and the needle is still not in the red zone.

 

Mike

 

 

One of the biggest improvements that I noticed on my car after replacing the fans, was the amount of electrical current draw when the fans would run. As Albert has pointed out, the original units were power hogs! Consider that each fan was pulling nearly 27 amps.

Sorry Mike, but this is simply not correct, the old QV fans consumed about 17-20Amps, not more. I measured them myself as well as the true 25th fans when I replaced mine 10 years ago.

The main benefit is not the consumption but the better airflow with a similar consumption.

 

The only way the fans could consume more current is if the bearings and coals inside the motor are worn down.

With your mentioned 27 amps per fans you would not only have had a problem with the relais but also had blown fuses since the fuse in the box is 30Amps.

 

I still have a mail from SPAL where they wrote the old Countach/LP5000S fans (VA01 AP13 25A) had 1800m3/h with a consumption of only 9amps, well I never believed this and it was not true, but I can't find the spec sheet anymore, but anyway of no belong anymore.

 

Consider also the poor italian electric wiring, your gauge will also drop less when you install a correct ground wire in the dash pod.

Sorry Mike, but this is simply not correct, the old QV fans consumed about 20Amps, not more. I measured them myself as well as the true 25th fans when I replaced mine 10 years ago.

The main benefit is not the consumption but the better airflow with a similar consumption.

 

The only way the fans could consume more current is if the bearings and coals inside the motor are worn down.

With your mentioned 27 amps per fans you would not only have a problem with the relais but also have blown fuses since the fuse in the box is 30Amps.

 

I still have a mail from SPAL where the say the old Countach/LP5000S fans (VA01 AP13 25A) had 1800m3/h with a consumption of only 9amps, well I never believed this and it was not true, but I can't find the spec sheet anymore, but anyway of no belong anymore.

 

Consider also the poor italian electric wiring, your gauge will also drop less when you install a correct ground wire in the dash pod.

 

That could be.... here is what my box looked like before....

That could be.... here is what my box looked like before....

 

Here is the new box. Still need to install a few more wires, wire tie things and tidy it up a bit. The new fuse block with glass fuses should really help the current flow better instead of the European bullet shaped fuses that only make slight contact.

 

excellent work, with your box Mike!

 

i think Ics is right, your fans could not eat so many ampere without causing many other problems. May be the gauge is incorrect. Unless you had two fan each radiator

 

ciao

excellent work, with your box Mike!

 

i think Ics is right, your fans could not eat so many ampere without causing many other problems. May be the gauge is incorrect. Unless you had two fan each radiator

 

ciao

 

Hi Albert, Yep, my car uses 2 fans on each radiator. For a total of 4 fans.

 

Mike

 

Hi Albert, Yep, my car uses 2 fans on each radiator. For a total of 4 fans.

 

Mike

 

 

ok, this explains everything.

 

thanks

 

ciao

ok, this explains everything.

 

thanks

 

ciao

 

Hi Albert

 

Check this out... the previous owner tried to fix the problem by simply installing new wire and not addressing the real issue, which was the horrible connections at the fuse block and relays. Check out what all that amperage did to the wire. SCARY STUFF!!!! I'm glad I caught this when I did.

 

Seems that the USA Quattrovalves all came with 4 fans. We have an '87 car an '88 1/2 car here in Washington (both fuel injected also like mine) and they both have 4 fans as well.

 

Mike

My 87FI has four fans. I am hoping after getting some custom alluminum radiators ( I am investigating now) and the fans that mike used, the pushers will not be needed any longer.

Yes Reiner,

Big custom radiators will certainly help... if i can get any info on mine i will post about it tonight or tomorrow. If not by then, then unfortunately i wasn't able to find out anything. BTW someone told me you bought the lower flare pieces and are removing the lower valence vents on your car? You're not holding out on us are you? Lets see some pictures

..

oh, dont forget the Water Wetter.....it works. Learned about it from Jay Leno. i think there is a video about it on his website.

 

i repeat it again:

 

1) 4 vents solution does not work well, it's a stupid solution with low air flow and high current consumption that can cause some fire problems

 

2) OEM radiators (if internally cleaned or rebuilt on early '70 cars) work well also on QV ant FI cars

 

3) 25th fans works very well: no problems

 

4) do not forget to change the water temp bulb on the right radiator: install a new one with 87°C set point. It should cost no more than 4 o 5 USD.

 

 

So it's not necessary to change radiators, find any strange solution or others: keep all OEM and just install a 25th fan or the improved replacement SPAL VA01-AP70/LL-36A, puller type. Pusher vents do not work well.

 

Every other solution is wrong or, at least, does not work well like this or it's by far more expensive.

 

ciao

 

 

 

 

 

 

From my wide experience over 10 years with these cars I can support Alberts point partially:

1) It works, specially in hot regions it was necessary, with the new fan generation you could at least make a try and go for a puller version only

2) I replaced the core of the radiator with a better one, every radiator builder can do this

3) they work well and are a simple plug and play (years ago only one replacement was available, menawhile SPAL has up to 4 types which fit)

4) Take the switch of the 25th you can then play around like I did, I use the first switch to run the fans in serial mode (half the power) when the higher switch comes on they run with full power. the 25th switch has following On/Off temp: 80/74 and 88/82, temperature at the gauge is higher since it's taken at the thermostat housing, radiator temp is approximately 5 degrees lower.

5) water wetter, radiator relief and all these things are useless, I tried them all and they all made no significant difference

6) A huge problem in the QV is the silly way the air filter housings are placed, like this the hot air has almost no chance to get away, the fans are blowing the hot air against a wall heating up the air filter housing. With the 25th this was corrected, but those lengthwise mounted air boxes don't fit in the QV.

 

My car is running stable for about 4 hours, then oil and water will raise above 90 degrees, after 4 hours the entire car is heaten up, only way to cool it down is then to make a break. As mentioned I have the (original) 25th fans installed for 10 years now.

Thanks, ICS, very interesting.

 

My car is a Carbed 5000S. I just know that here Lambo assistance puts 25th fans on QV and has never heard of problems, but i do not have a QV so i canot say anything. 25th cars have no cooling problems for sure, nor 400 and 5000 if equipped with 25th fans.

 

But let me say you are an hero, if you can resist more than 4 hours in a Countach!

 

ciao

Yes Reiner,

Big custom radiators will certainly help... if i can get any info on mine i will post about it tonight or tomorrow. If not by then, then unfortunately i wasn't able to find out anything. BTW someone told me you bought the lower flare pieces and are removing the lower valence vents on your car? You're not holding out on us are you? Lets see some pictures

 

My eyes lit up when I saw a pic of your radiators. If you could find out who did them that would be great. I am talking to Griffin, Wizard Cooling & Ron Davis. Trying to decide. Sounds like they will be 40 -50% more effecient. After I get the radiator delima sorted out, I am taking the skirts off and converting back to the euro tail lamps. Already have all the parts

Just got done with engine maint: valve adjustment, timing chain tension, engine detailing, coolant pipe change over etc $$$ etc $$$ etc

You mean radiators like this??? Griffin made these for me a few years ago. I have the pattern they will need.

Chadbourn Bolles

 

My eyes lit up when I saw a pic of your radiators. If you could find out who did them that would be great. I am talking to Griffin, Wizard Cooling & Ron Davis. Trying to decide. Sounds like they will be 40 -50% more effecient. After I get the radiator delima sorted out, I am taking the skirts off and converting back to the euro tail lamps. Already have all the parts

You mean radiators like this??? Griffin made these for me a few years ago. I have the pattern they will need.

Chadbourn Bolles

 

How did they fit? It looks extremely close to the fender. When they recored mine they only gave me 1/4" between rad tank and fender. I could not get the radiator cover body work back on the car. I had to have them move the mounts another 1/4" so I could put the car back together. Do you know how big the tubes are and how many tubes there are? How does it perform?

These were made to the exact size of the factory Countach rad.. The tubes are NASCAR size as I wanted the best cooling that I could get and that was it.

You have my number if I can give you more help.

Chadbourn Bolles

 

How did they fit? It looks extremely close to the fender. When they recored mine they only gave me 1/4" between rad tank and fender. I could not get the radiator cover body work back on the car. I had to have them move the mounts another 1/4" so I could put the car back together. Do you know how big the tubes are and how many tubes there are? How does it perform?