HiFi/Highend/Audio Gear

VERY interesting behemoth released from B&O.

 

Beolab 90.

 

properties:

Beam Width Control

Beam Direction Control

Active Room Compensation

 

 

Product page: http://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/sound/loudspeakers/beolab-90

 

Behind the scenes, how it came alive: http://www.tonmeister.ca/wordpress/2015/10...ind-the-scenes/

 

64 pages wide white paper: http://www.bang-olufsen.com/~/media/Files/...d%20Guide_15101

 

Going to be hard to make a ton of drivers sound good, let alone coherent; latest Scan Speak raw drivers, makes no difference.

 

Best bang for the buck: unlikely.

 

What a great thread. Just read all 12 pgs.

 

Fellippe’s post #9 http://www.lambopower.com/forum/index.php?...st&p=973766 was the most intriguing for me given that I’m looking for a reasonable tube set up for a vacation home for around $5K.

 

Checked out Synthesis’s website and I can’t find the Ensemble integrated amplifier. Any suggestions on its replacement or a comparable model? Planning to order the DAC Magic unless there’s a better recommendation for the $.

 

Thanks again!

 

Edit: Synthesis Shine maybe?

What a great thread. Just read all 12 pgs.

 

Fellippe’s post #9 http://www.lambopower.com/forum/index.php?...st&p=973766 was the most intriguing for me given that I’m looking for a reasonable tube set up for a vacation home for around $5K.

 

Checked out Synthesis’s website and I can’t find the Ensemble integrated amplifier. Any suggestions on its replacement or a comparable model? Planning to order the DAC Magic unless there’s a better recommendation for the $.

 

Thanks again!

 

Edit: Synthesis Shine maybe?

 

They stopped making the Ensemble.

 

Good deal is the A40V for $6400. You get a $4k amp with built in DAC worth about $3500. It sounds really nice.

 

Integrated without DAC and cheaper I'd go Roma 753 for about $3800

 

DAC Magic is a decent entry level DAC but that Synthesis DAC is a lot better.

They stopped making the Ensemble.

 

Good deal is the A40V for $6400. You get a $4k amp with built in DAC worth about $3500. It sounds really nice.

 

Integrated without DAC and cheaper I'd go Roma 753 for about $3800

 

DAC Magic is a decent entry level DAC but that Synthesis DAC is a lot better.

Thanks Fellippe. Now I just need to find a dealer preferably in a state that I frequently travel.

Had a chance to listen to an “entry level” tube system yesterday that would fit nicely in the vacation home loft. PrimaLuna ProLogue Premium integrated amp driving ProAc bookshelf speakers. Total system cost including a DAC will be just under $5K. Does anyone have experience with PrimaLuna or ProAc?

PrimaLuna makes good entry level tube products. They based their products from classic tube circuitry, packaged them in a fair-looking design and have them made in China to keep the cost low. It's proven technology and there really isn't much hi-tech manufacturing involved so China's low-cost labour for assembly fits the bill. Sound is fair --- entry level as you say for highend hi-fi but much better than your regular mainstream brands. ProAc's are well-known for their bookshelf monitor speakers. They kind of fallen off the hi-end world radar for the pass few years but the ProAc Tablettes were very famously known and appreciated all over the world for their fine tonal signature. And ProAc's love tube amps over solid state ones. Seems like you had picked a nice matching set up.

Agreed on VCR. Islandguy you mention loft? Big open space? I think these are capable of only near field in that situation.

Thanks for the feedback guys. Yes it is in a loft. Unfortunate I know. To make it worse the loft is a 15’x25’ catwalk 12 ft above and in the center of the 40’x25’ ground floor, with walls on two ends, glass on the other, and a ceiling peak another 28ft above loft level (the ceiling is 40’ high from the ground floor). Very well could be the worst situation for serious listing which is why I wasn’t looking to spend $$$$.

No it can actually be very good space. But IMHO, MUST in high ceiling height, acoustic treatments to roof. Basic acoustic panels when 4-5cm deep with as much airspace between ceiling and panels. the room will be million times better to chat with someone, and same with music.

But don't over do it, you want to keep a bit of echo and a bit of room gain...

Agree with rmtn. On the other end, it can be much better than you anticipated since I think you have what we called in hi-fi jargon a cathedral ceiling. Regardless, high ceiling is always good. Glass on one end isn't too much of an issue at all. With the proper sound treatment (Tube Traps, absorptive/reflective panels, Sonex acoustic foams; some you can even make it yourself), it should sound very nice.

DAC’s

 

After a lot of reading, listening, and a great deal from a local distributor, I went with a Primaluna Prologue Premium integrated amp driving some older Proac Tablettes for the loft. Considering Totem Hawks and PMC DB1+ Gold, but haven’t had enough time in the chair to decide yet.

 

Next endeavor is to find a reasonably priced (

 

Cambridge DAC Magic

Chord Hugo or the new Mojo

Parasound ZDAC

Music Hall DAC 25.3

 

The other option would be to get an Oppo 105d and use its internal DAC since I could use a new transport as well.

 

Any thoughts?

I cant help you, I have always been totally happy with even the most basic and cheapest DAC's. Inbuilt or external.

islandguy, when you select DAC, If your purpose is to mate the dac with movies/games/tv in AV-system,

spend some time to learn how many ms they have processing lag.

It can be a bit much on some of them.

 

 

 

But, since this topic is up I unload my feelings a bit:

My lust after B&W as a company is over, have heard 802 D3 a couple of times, does nothing to me and design went to toilet.

But, heard also Avantgarde Acoustics Zero 1 Pro, and albeit tweeter being way too low mounted for close distance listening, it was really impressive for that kind of music I listen (Electronic etc).

 

This digi-stuff starts to be ready for serious use.

From your choice of the Prima Luna and the Tablettes, I think Cambridge and Chord would be a better fit for you. I would throw in Arcam as well since it has relatively the same tonal signatures and would match well with your amp & speakers.

 

By going with the Oppo, you would get a transport and you will eliminate; or at least minimize; the clock error and dither problem (the evil of all things digital) plus one less AC power cable and a digital interconnect (which could be a saving of some sort). But I am not sure if the Oppo's tonal signature is your cup of tea. The Oppo is very "hi-fi" whereas the brands that you listed are more "natural and mellow" sounding. But who knows, as those who are into this hobby would agree, matching is the key here. Perhaps you need that "hi fi" sound to balance out with the natural tonal signature --- just that right amount of spice so to speak. I had never tried putting an Oppo with hi-end audio gear as Oppo, to me anyway, is more AV than audio so I cannot give you a definitive answer on that. I guess you need to audition one to find out.

 

rmtn, the B&W 802 was a compromise from its very first inception. The 801 was the real deal but it's woofer enclosure was simply too big for home use so B&W made the compromise by downsizing the woofer, twined it and jammed them into a slimmer cabinet. The results were not even close to the 801 IMO but I guess something had to give. I concur that B&W hasn't been up to par at all with large speaker design since the departure of Laurence Dickie.

 

Digital isn't going away due to it's flexibility, ease of use/convenience/portability etc... Consequently, they are in the right climate, economics and politics to be enhanced further (for better sound). But I would call it a borderline mature technology because the format itself is being constantly updated with technology advancement. Moreover, we still have not fully resolved that "digital smearing" sound which robs digital that proper 3D imaging and "flesh & blood presence" like analog. At the risk of sparking another debate, I still stand firm on everything that I had previous said on this thread regarding analog vs. digital. I can also assure you that there are certainly plenty of life left in the analog world; just look at all the new turntables, tonearms and cartridge being rushed onto the market as of late. I agree that they are for the esoteric few but there are enough of us around to support a healthy resurgence of the genre. Meanwhile, in the digital world, we are seeing plenty of "magical boxes" being slowly but surely introduced onto the market (essential, you plug one in between the digital somewhere for better sound). These are all "interfaces", a buffer-phase so to speak to eliminate dither and clock error. The industry had been and continues to combat these monsters from nearly 3 decades now and with better understand on what digital really is and with new technologies and materials (better electronic parts), they can finally put theory into reality. But like all things new, it will be costly at first. There is one essential element in the digital world that can make a night & day different --- electricity. Fellippe can probably speak more on a professional level than me but in a nutshell pure juice (as well as proper grounding) is the source of great sound . With the digital gears, we are basically tweaking with household AC supply to get better sound. The abundance of various power cables, power bars, filters, isolated transformers and even AC receptacles with exotic metal rails in the last decade or so proofs this theory.

Thanks for the heads up rmtn. The plan is for audio only.

 

VCR, from your description, and what I’ve read about the Oppo it’s great for AV but somewhat “bright” for Audio. At $1K I figured I could get 2 in 1 but it may be an overkill, not worth the effort. I’ll probably go with Cambridge since it’s been highly reviewed, simple, and would be a cheap lesson if I don’t like it. My only reservation is that the current design is 3+ years old. There’s also a local Chord dealer who’ll let me test drive a Mojo once I’m up and running.

 

Keeping in mind TCO and the relative “quality of all components”, for speaker cables I was going to order Ah! or customs from Blue Jeans Cables.

 

Talking about “tweaking with household AC supply to get better sound” I came across this article regarding fuses (attached). Even as an ME it seems far-fetched that a fuse could product a noticeable increase in sound quality.

 

fuses.pdf

Absolutey true VCR! Laurence Dickie was the true innovator and since it has been very slow...

My odd Megapod speakers were produced at B&W by Laurence and Simon Ghahary from Blueroom.

And it was Simon who teached glassfiber tech to Laurence who was trying to find solution how to make Nautilus speakers box shape.

So it's quite remarkable that there would not be Nautilus speakers as we know them, if not from adopting tech from very cheap Minipod speakers.

That's why I propably never sell them even when the sound is not quite hifi by todays standards.

islandguy, that's what I meant on the Oppo. AV gears are design to stimulate the senses of the home theatre crowd. The visuals are obvious but it needs the exaggerated dynamics for the aural effects as well. Essentially, you will get plenty of booms, bangs, screams and thunder claps; but not much on real music and vocals. So choose accordingly please. You probably won't go wrong with the Cambridge. You must already knew that the rule of diminishing return applies more than ever in the hi-fi world. Of course the next product would be superior --- more dynamics, better sound stage, increased transparency etc... But are you ready to pay more for that ever so slight improvement? You have to make your own call on that. As to cables, I would suggest going entry level silver. You gears are on the musical but slightly "polite" and warm side and perhaps slightly conservative. The silver would add the glow in the upper mids to highs to create that extra sparkle. Copper will add warmth and thicken the sound but it may also slow it just a tad and make it sound slightly dull.

 

On the fuse: well, at the risk of being seen as a lunatic again, I would say it does work but one will need the right gears, room and, obviously, hearing to distinguish it. It won't be night & day of course but the difference is audible. And this also substantiates what I said about digital is essentially playing with electricity. Consider this: a fuse basically functions as a current regulator. The better the flow, the better the current/juice; the better the juice, the better the sound. It's like comparing a new water pipe with an old one that's full of sludge and gunk inside. Better metallurgy promotes better flow of electrons and thus more pure AC currents. It's fundamentally the same concept as the wires inside the cable or the connectors at each end or the connector on the component itself. One may question if something as small as a fuse would make a difference, the proper answer would be how many wires are inside a phono cartridge and yet they make a huge difference in sound. And note how low the voltage is for the cartridge. For the fuse, it is the gate keeper as it funnels household AC into the components. So the difference is there; but whether or not it is worth the while to pursue things to such an esoteric level, that's obviously a personal issue and choice.

 

rmtn, the Nautilus and its derivatives had definitely written a new page in speaker design and I honestly don't think B&W have surpassed that milestone ever since; which is too bad. To be fair though, the original Nautilus speakers were and still are one hell of a pair of speakers to drive though: just the cost of several power amps and cabling etc.. is enough to make one's eyes water. And we haven't even begun to address the phasing and proper crossover issues. And the Magapod deserves and have its place in the hi-fi world as well.

 

 

 

rmtn, the Nautilus and its derivatives had definitely written a new page in speaker design and I honestly don't think B&W have surpassed that milestone ever since; which is too bad. To be fair though, the original Nautilus speakers were and still are one hell of a pair of speakers to drive though: just the cost of several power amps and cabling etc.. is enough to make one's eyes water. And we haven't even begun to address the phasing and proper crossover issues.

 

True, but once again with D-class amps and DSP they could be made better than ever. And actually Linn has one solution: http://www.linn.co.uk/music-systems/technology/exakt

Ofcourse it is no solution to 99,99% of people because of the astronomical cost of everything still.

As to cables, I would suggest going entry level silver. You gears are on the musical but slightly "polite" and warm side and perhaps slightly conservative. The silver would add the glow in the upper mids to highs to create that extra sparkle. Copper will add warmth and thicken the sound but it may also slow it just a tad and make it sound slightly dull.

Thanks as always for the detailed colorful descriptions and guidance.

 

Would you consider these entry level silver cables? They’re a hybrid and not expensive at all. http://signalcable.com/silverresolutionspeaker.html

True, but once again with D-class amps and DSP they could be made better than ever. And actually Linn has one solution: http://www.linn.co.uk/music-systems/technology/exakt

Ofcourse it is no solution to 99,99% of people because of the astronomical cost of everything still.

 

With the rise of Class-D amps, downsizing the amplification is certainly possible. But Class-D switching amps are hits & misses so picking the right one would be a challenge. DSP, in theory, would work but the more one adds into the chain, the more it is prone to sound degradation so there still will be compromises. Tell me one thing that Linn makes which are not $$$, LOL.

 

 

Thanks as always for the detailed colorful descriptions and guidance.

 

Would you consider these entry level silver cables? They’re a hybrid and not expensive at all. http://signalcable.com/silverresolutionspeaker.html

 

You are welcome. I dare not say guidance; just sharing ideas and suggestions.

 

Not really, silver cables should be exactly that --- silver. But that's not to say that this would not work. In fact, I am quite curious on how they sound. As far as cost relating to the hi-end hi fi world, they certainly seem like a deal. Doesn't hurt to try for sure.

Brand new into the HiFi world

 

I picked up the Sennheiser HD 800S and the matching Sennheiser HDVD 800 amplifier. Do I need anything else to start enjoying my headphones? Should I change any of the wires? Do I need a hifi music player?

 

What sites does everyone use to download music?

 

Any and all help is greatly appreciated

Brand new into the HiFi world

 

I picked up the Sennheiser HD 800S and the matching Sennheiser HDVD 800 amplifier. Do I need anything else to start enjoying my headphones? Should I change any of the wires? Do I need a hifi music player?

 

What sites does everyone use to download music?

 

Any and all help is greatly appreciated

 

Right now, I would say no, but I would just plop down $20 for a Tidal subscription as a short term solution and start enjoying some good sounding music. That is awesome .

Right now, I would say no, but I would just plop down $20 for a Tidal subscription as a short term solution and start enjoying some good sounding music. That is awesome .

 

Thank you, Ill join Tidal now. I can't wait to open the box and start using it. I've been in NY the past few days (currently on my flight back home) and the box has been sitting in my house, unless my GF opened it and is now going to request that she has her own set up.

Brand new into the HiFi world

 

I picked up the Sennheiser HD 800S and the matching Sennheiser HDVD 800 amplifier. Do I need anything else to start enjoying my headphones? Should I change any of the wires? Do I need a hifi music player?

What sites does everyone use to download music?

 

Any and all help is greatly appreciated

 

The general rule is this:

 

Don't do anything unnecessarily. Meaning don't upgrade for the sake of upgrading unless you are bored with what you have.

 

It's the greatest audio life lesson I could pass onto you, for which I have very many.

 

Upgrading your audio where it translates to guaranteed improvement (not even bringing value into the equation) is way harder than anything in the car world, at least when you get very serious with this stuff.

 

At the low end the improvements are easy, and as you go up it gets incrementally harder and more expensive.

 

From my experience you'll know if you're into this stuff or not over time. It's not like cars where as a 5 year old it hits you. This stuff you have to try a bit and you'll know pretty soon if it's your thing or not.

 

If you're looking to just use headphones in the living room or something, at some point if you really like it you'll probably want a headphone amp.

The general rule is this:

 

Don't do anything unnecessarily. Meaning don't upgrade for the sake of upgrading unless you are bored with what you have.

 

It's the greatest audio life lesson I could pass onto you, for which I have very many.

 

Upgrading your audio where it translates to guaranteed improvement (not even bringing value into the equation) is way harder than anything in the car world, at least when you get very serious with this stuff.

 

At the low end the improvements are easy, and as you go up it gets incrementally harder and more expensive.

 

From my experience you'll know if you're into this stuff or not over time. It's not like cars where as a 5 year old it hits you. This stuff you have to try a bit and you'll know pretty soon if it's your thing or not.

 

If you're looking to just use headphones in the living room or something, at some point if you really like it you'll probably want a headphone amp.

 

Thanks for the advice, this being my first go around I want to make sure I get the full experience. If there are any tricks or things I should be doing to truly enjoy the experience is really what I am after.

 

I did pick up the amp that Sennhieser made for these headphones. So I have the headphone and amp covered

Thanks for the advice, this being my first go around I want to make sure I get the full experience. If there are any tricks or things I should be doing to truly enjoy the experience is really what I am after.

 

I did pick up the amp that Sennhieser made for these headphones. So I have the headphone and amp covered

 

Oops, I missed the amp part.

 

With headphones all you can do is change your source and cabling. The one good thing about them is that the room is essentially non important.

 

When you get into speakers, then the acoustics of the room are big.

 

VCR probably knows the Sennheiser cable recommendation better than I.....I'm thinking Cardas but he might recommend something better.

 

As far as long term potential with just headphones, you would basically just build a system the same way you would a normal 2 channel speaker system --> amplifier upgrades (there are a few headphone amps out there), dedicated Digital to Analog Converter (DAC) to maximize your digital sound quality, phono amplifier & turntable (if you want to listen to vinyl), and then all of the interconnects in between. CD transports (even if you still use CDs) tends not to be a dramatic improvement in sound quality, $ for $ (although admittedly, some look cool as s***).

 

The DAC and phono amps can start out pretty modestly and the sky is the limit at the high end. Same for interconnects. I would say given the application, anything pretty decent would be enough really.

 

I'd say a Cambridge Audio DAC Magic is a good start:

 

https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/hif...a/dacmagic-plus

 

For a phono amp if you go there, a Synthesis Audio Brio is pretty nice:

 

http://www.synthesis.co.it/prime-brio.php

 

There are some decent headphone amplifiers that double as speaker amplifiers, so you could have a dedicated headphone rig with speakers as well.

 

I might one day get this:

 

http://www.synthesis.co.it/roma-roma41.php

 

On the discontinued/used market, the Grommes PHI-26 was a nice headphone amplifier.

 

I like the Synthesis product line in general. It's like if Pagani made $50k cars that had the pizzazz of six figure exotics because he works on small margins. Qualitatively speaking, a majority of their stuff should sell for a lot more than it does.

 

For turntables, I like Clear Audio Concept:

 

http://clearaudio.de/en/products/turntables-concept.php

 

Any other questions, ask away.