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DoctaM3

Stock Performante vs Manthey Racing GT2RS on the Nurburgring

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This was a pretty interesting video to watch for 2 reasons.  First, we all heard the GT2RS & especially the Manthey Racing mods made it faster than the Performante around the Nurburgring.  What's curious is that in the hands of a professional racing driver, in this case Christian Gebhardt (Sport Auto Mag), the Performante seems to "leave" the GT2RS MR behind and it is especially obvious in the corners.  The GT2RS is fast and you can see how it closes the gaps point to point on the straightaways but then "falls" behind again. Is it all ALA or something else? Any other interesting observations from the footage?  One I noticed is how much steering input there is on the Performante and I recall seeing that on the SVJ record run as well.

 

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On 8/11/2020 at 7:42 PM, DoctaM3 said:

This was a pretty interesting video to watch for 2 reasons.  First, we all heard the GT2RS & especially the Manthey Racing mods made it faster than the Performante around the Nurburgring.  What's curious is that in the hands of a professional racing driver, in this case Christian Gebhardt (Sport Auto Mag), the Performante seems to "leave" the GT2RS MR behind and it is especially obvious in the corners.  The GT2RS is fast and you can see how it closes the gaps point to point on the straightaways but then "falls" behind again. Is it all ALA or something else? Any other interesting observations from the footage?  One I noticed is how much steering input there is on the Performante and I recall seeing that on the SVJ record run as well.

 

completly apple vs orange.

Gt2 Rs Mr driven by non professional driver Sebastian VITTEL (not VETTEL). Hi is just a frequent Nürburgring driver on an open track day with about 80 cars on the track and 24 degres temp.

 

Performante delivered by factory and the track was closed for track record attempt, driver Gebhard semi proffesionel. 12 degrees temp.

(different days)

Between does drivers are around 15sec gap of skills

Driver skills the same, between the 2 Rs and Performante is a gap of 10 - 12 secs on the nordschleife and the Mr package saves an other 4-5 secs of in favor of the RS.

 

descritpion of the video below

 

77EA3C4F-6C07-4F67-BF53-9A239077691A.png

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On 9/9/2020 at 5:07 AM, Xskier said:

completly apple vs orange.

Gt2 Rs Mr driven by non professional driver Sebastian VITTEL (not VETTEL). Hi is just a frequent Nürburgring driver on an open track day with about 80 cars on the track and 24 degres temp.

 

Performante delivered by factory and the track was closed for track record attempt, driver Gebhard semi proffesionel. 12 degrees temp.

(different days)

Between does drivers are around 15sec gap of skills

Driver skills the same, between the 2 Rs and Performante is a gap of 10 - 12 secs on the nordschleife and the Mr package saves an other 4-5 secs of in favor of the RS.

 

descritpion of the video below

 

 

I think you are missing my point--one could argue, that yes, they are apples and oranges. One is a factory car and the other is a tuned car.  We agree on that. But many have made many assertions about the GT2RS MR hence the comparison, even by professional journalists and enthusiasts alike.  Without back to back comparison, we don't really know. So your speculation that the MR is 1-12s faster is not supported by any data that I have seen.  Marco is amazing for sure (I do know him--it was Marco who did the attempt not Gebhard) but if you have watched Sebastian, he is no slouch either. Anyway, I'd be curious to see the information on the MR being 10-12s faster then the Performante.

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5 hours ago, DoctaM3 said:

I think you are missing my point--one could argue, that yes, they are apples and oranges. One is a factory car and the other is a tuned car.  We agree on that. But many have made many assertions about the GT2RS MR hence the comparison, even by professional journalists and enthusiasts alike.  Without back to back comparison, we don't really know. So your speculation that the MR is 1-12s faster is not supported by any data that I have seen.  Marco is amazing for sure (I do know him--it was Marco who did the attempt not Gebhard) but if you have watched Sebastian, he is no slouch either. Anyway, I'd be curious to see the information on the MR being 10-12s faster then the Performante.

If you read the video discritpion you will.noticed: performante on the video was driven by Christian Gebhard from Sport auto (for Sportauto magtest) and not Marco Mapelli which did the record attempt on the Huracan performante 2017 with 6:52 minutes.

The record of the Gt2 Rs by Lars Kern was 6:47 and in 2018 with the Gt2 Rs Mr 6:40 minutes.

So both cars driven by facory drivers  on record attemps are separated by 5 secs and by 12 secs by the MR spec.

this ist not speculation but facts, this figures are everywhere

Maybe we could met up on the Ring, im a couple of times there per year and traking some of my cars, (2rs and also the performante). You would realise were the 2 Rs makes ground on the performante, given both driver are the same.

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19 hours ago, Xskier said:

If you read the video discritpion you will.noticed: performante on the video was driven by Christian Gebhard from Sport auto (for Sportauto magtest) and not Marco Mapelli which did the record attempt on the Huracan performante 2017 with 6:52 minutes.

The record of the Gt2 Rs by Lars Kern was 6:47 and in 2018 with the Gt2 Rs Mr 6:40 minutes.

So both cars driven by facory drivers  on record attemps are separated by 5 secs and by 12 secs by the MR spec.

this ist not speculation but facts, this figures are everywhere

Maybe we could met up on the Ring, im a couple of times there per year and traking some of my cars, (2rs and also the performante). You would realise were the 2 Rs makes ground on the performante, given both driver are the same.

I am in no way professing Ring expertise.  However, according to Lamborghini, Marco is the person who set the official record. Irrespective of what the video description says, here is the official announcement from 2 sources. In the video I posted, Christian is piloting, so that is the only relevant fact. My point was, in the corners, the Performante seemed more composed.  It is that simple--the implication is, is this ALA at play?

Here is the video with the description from Lamborghini's own channel(read the description of the video): "On 5 October 2016, the Huracán Performante set a new production car lap record of 6:52:01 min on the Nürburgring Nordschleife with Lamborghini test driver Marco Mapelli."  

https://www.thedrive.com/news/18945/the-lamborghini-huracn-performante-set-records-on-eight-circuits-this-year

There may have been other drivers but that isn't the point I am making. Furthermore, the fundamental point is, we are comparing a tuned Porsche to a factory spec Lamborghini.

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That is all correct, but i can tell you the driver is the biggest factor on the Nordschleife, and between a Amateur, semi proffesional and professional are easy 10-15 sec gap on this track. (Vittel vs Gebhard in this case)

 

Christian Gebhard had a time of

7:07 in the huracan performante supertest, vs 6:52 Malpello record lap

6:58 in the Gt2 Rs, vs 6:47 Lars Kern record lap.

That is the delta from semiproffesionel to prodriver.

Or the otheway if i am in my 2Rs on the nordschleife, and there is a 3rs with a semi professional driver, he will overtake me easly, just by his capapilitys to brake later, corner faster, caring more speed out, despit me having 180hp more in the car. Somehow frustrating but the truth.

Of course on shorter tracks and more Gp style track, with roll out aerias, the delta is smaller

therefor to make a conclusion out of 2 cars driven by 2 different level driver is just not correct and gives you wrong impression of the cars

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33 minutes ago, Xskier said:

That is all correct, but i can tell you the driver is the biggest factor on the Nordschleife, and between a Amateur, semi proffesional and professional are easy 10-15 sec gap on this track. (Vittel vs Gebhard in this case)

 

Christian Gebhard had a time of

7:07 in the huracan performante supertest, vs 6:52 Malpello record lap

6:58 in the Gt2 Rs, vs 6:47 Lars Kern record lap.

That is the delta from semiproffesionel to prodriver.

Or the otheway if i am in my 2Rs on the nordschleife, and there is a 3rs with a semi professional driver, he will overtake me easly, just by his capapilitys to brake later, corner faster, caring more speed out, despit me having 180hp more in the car. Somehow frustrating but the truth.

Of course on shorter tracks and more Gp style track, with roll out aerias, the delta is smaller

therefor to make a conclusion out of 2 cars driven by 2 different level driver is just not correct and gives you wrong impression of the cars

I don't disagree with the human factor-you are indeed correct. I am still making the observation about the characteristic handling of the car on certain parts of the track.  If you read my original post, you can see that was the main focus not absolute laptimes that were reported.   "The GT2RS is fast and you can see how it closes the gaps point to point on the straightaways but then "falls" behind again. Is it all ALA or something else?"

 

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