TommyJames

I have a bias because I have an SV but I still have something to say on the subject. This summer I got to drive a lot of cars. The peak of which was when I had plenty of time to drive the Veyron Grand Sport under a wide variety of road conditions. When it was all said and done, I just couldn't get excited about anything I drove because there is a lack of driver-involvement; that intangible that gets me excited about driving something. EVERYTHING else I've driven this past summer other than the SV has bored the living shit out of me. There I said it. I have a friend who's got a valuable collection of vintage race cars and he went through the exact same experience, which is why he turned to vintage race cars. He wanted the noise, the driver involvement, the excitement and I am now leaning more towards finding that next thing that excites me in that direction, preferably in an exotic, but who knows. When I drive the SV, I never turn on the stereo or bother to listen to anything but the amazing sounds that come through the firewall. Yet, when I was in the LP700, I found myself fiddling with the radio, and paying attention to other things no differently than I would my daily driver. I was bored. I'm sure the Aventador will do just fine in the market initially and Lamborghini will build far more than the market can support. Furthermore, without them spending a dime building any culture behind the brand, resale values won't likely be there for the long haul. I was told by the factory that they built 186 SVs in total, 42 for the US market, and that at least six have left the US leaving just 36 here. You'd think Lamborghini would renumber the badges in actual order, but they don't give a shit about resale. Of those 36, I have no idea how many will end up in private collections, never to be driven. I know I still get a thrill when I go out driving mine and have no intention of locking it away.

I keep saying it over and over- I'll bet new owner or borrowed car. That seems to be about 90% of the accidents.

Generally these new owners don't think about considerations that come from experience- and admittedly I went through it too, where you can't just take an exotic anywhere and just treat it as you would a daily driver. They also don't take into account the sudden competition the LFA faces with zero mile cars that are titled by dealer-owners who don't drive them while they themselves are racking up miles, thinking they will drive it just anywhere like a daily driver only to then learn that they will pay a huge premium for those miles, more so than any Lamborghini. It would be different if the 172 US vehicles were all owned by end customers, but this is not the case. If you look at Cars.com and do a general search, you will already see that seven of the roughly forty LFAs brought to the US are already for sale by dealers. According to Lexus, those cars had to be titled (don't know if this is really the case) but assuming so, are you really going to be driving your LFA to the store to pick up that loaf of bread you forgot? Another point of naivety is when they argue that Lexus history of reliability will translate, one for one, with the LFA. They don't seem to understand that Lexus achieved that by putting a lot of the same model cars on the road, spreading R&D over a wider test bed. I've tried to explain that even if the LFA had better reliability, how much of a difference does it really make when you're not putting all that many miles on the cars anyway? Then assume you are racking up the miles, can you imagine the GIANT depreciation hit when so many cars are not getting any miles on them at all? How in the world does that make the LFA cost less per mile simply because it's expected to be more reliable? Misconceptions about exotic ownership are common, but what's unique about the LFA is that most of the buyers are not coming out of mainstream exotic ownership anyway. The few that are on the forums have no prior exotic ownership of any kind and assume they will just drive through the same cars wash, drive the same roads, leave it in the same grocery store lot, eat at the same restaurants, etc., and still suffer less depreciation simply because of reliability than Lamborghini or Ferrari or even Porsche. Last, they don't seem to realize that once all 172 cars are on the road, the market niche will disappear from Lexus all together so there won't be the usual brand building that goes with a continuation of product and the LFA will quickly drift out of top-of-the-mind awareness forever. It's not going to be worth more than they paid and all indicators are so far that values will drop through the floor unless Lexus steps up and tried to retain a culture behind the LFA, something they don't seem to be considering at the moment. I sill think the LFA is a terrific car and one that should get lots of respect. I just think buyers have to be well aware of what they are buying and be comfortable with the idea that they are buying a brand orphan that so far seems to have a soft demand and there is zero evidence to support that these cars will somehow go up in value. It's a wonderful car to drive, it's fit and finish is outstanding, and there are lots of dealers to support it, but it's absolutely no panacea as some LFA buyers seem to think.

I still then the bar is fairly high in the US too, but I don't think this will be as simple as the after market exhaust for other models. Also for those considering making mods, there is point where it's just not worth the return on investment either. I had the OC exhaust on my LP640 and I loved it. I have the factory exhaust on my SV and I'm still happy even though it's not that loud at idle. It comes alive at speed enough to make me happy. The cabin in the Aventador is far quieter than any Murcielago and that's not all bad. It does make it easier to carry on a conversation without taking a giant breath or leaning in to hear what the passenger is saying.

It doesn't matter how over it they are. Lamborghini will not warranty the motor if there is any modification to the exhaust and this time I think they can make that stick.

It sounds to me like the parking bake is partially engaged. It shouldn't take that much effort to roll.

That's exactly right according to the factory. From what I understand, they tied the exhaust back into the ECU. Someone can correct me on how it's all tied in. Any modifications and the warranty is toast. It's a very unusual looking exhaust. I'm sure someone here has photos of the engine and frame.

Thanks for the kind words everyone. They mean a lot. I've got a bit more to add about the Veyron given that I drove it again just one week after the Aventador. I just hosted Bugatti last weekend and had the Grand Sport in my garage for three days. I got enough seat time in the car to have a very good feel for the car under a very wide swath of road conditions. I'd now say there is a larger gap in feel between it and the Aventador. The key difference is how the power comes up. The Aventador is instantaneous at all RPMs while the turbo lag with the Veyron seems even more pronounced than I remembered from last year. I found myself having trouble driving the Veyron well in the curvy stuff when compared to the Aventador. The Aventador actually felt just as smooth on the road with more feedback to the driver. While nothing beats the long pull of the Veyron, the Aventador will feel very good at higher speeds. I was so glad to get back into my SV after the Veyron. It felt wonderful all over again and you just can't beat the sound. I also forgot to add that the factory is not going to allow any exhaust modifications of the Aventador in any form and it's definitely quiet by comparison to everything but the Veyron. It's the one thing I love about the SV. I let the F1 driver traveling with the Veyron to do a hot lap with my car around the 5.5 mile loop we were using and I could hear that glorious high RPM sound the entire way around, when the Veyron by compariso would go silent less than a mile from where we were standing. I've also said this before. The LP640 didn't feel like it was broken in until I was just over 5,000 miles when it felt like it came to life for the first time. This was reflected in ever-improving dyno results. The same holds true for the SV. Lamborghinis just seem to improve with miles.

Okay- I'll write this about four cars because they have such similarities, not in price so much but how they feel. I had a chance to spend a lot of time driving the F458 about three weeks ago. I'm guessing I drove about 40 miles or so, similar to the Aventador. I drove the LFA back in March down at Infineon where I could drive the car more aggressively. I've also driven the Bugatti Grand Sport about the same distance. All three cars are very closely match in terms of operational smoothness. The LFA is not the fastest of the three but it is a very serious car and if anyone's read my posts from its first arrival, I was anything but a fan, even though I'm on my fifth or sixth Lexus. I just realized that there probably aren't a lot of guys who've driven both the Avendator and the LFA. The LFA is very different from anything Italian because the seating position is far more vertical than the others and it's the only front engine car of the bunch. Lexus has paid so much attention to tiny details that those small features alone make it cool and make it interesting, even though the looks don't wow me, but it does look better in person. It doesn't shift as fast or as smooth as the F458 or Veyron, but it does have nicer gear transitions than the Avendator even though the Aventador has far more power. The Veyron feels like an extremely powerful LFA and has more in common with that car than the other two in terms of overall feedback to the driver. I can easily upset the SV and it actually takes skill to drive well which is why I love it. The SV's true strong point is it's high speed handling. I've driven my SV for very long stretches of remote completely empty roads at well past 150, where I sustained those speeds for minutes at a time rather than a few seconds and it's a wonderful experience. I'd feel less comfortable doing that same thing in the LFA, however there is nothing unstable about the LFA. In fact, I had difficulty upsetting the car on the track. I'd feel even less comfortable in the 458 at high speed. I shifted the LFA in corners, did all the wrong things intentionally, and the car just remained very stable no matter what. Pile up an LFA and natural selection should have nabbed you before you had the money to buy one in the first place. The LFA has the head position of the driver in the very center of the car and it does seem to make a difference in how you relate to the car when driving. You do feel connected to the car. The fit and finish of production cars is far superior to anything I've seen and I'd put it on par with the Veyron. I guess if I had to describe the LFA, I think it's like buying a really good watch. It's just a different fine watch so no point in arguing which is better as it's all a matter of lifestyle. The more you dig into the LFA's bits and pieces, the more you see where all the R&D dollars were spent. They shelled out huge dollars on tiny details- almost to the point of obsession which is why I've added the Veyron which is rather similar in that regard. When it comes to driving experience, all four cars lack rawness, but again I'm coming from an SV. The Aventatod feels like the biggest bruit of the four unless you're looking at the gauges, then the Veyron hands down. The Veyron has absolutely no feel to it's sheer muscle until you're above 40-60 where it really flies- but again, it's so well mannered that you can't really tell. You can't beat the sounds of the Veyron's waste gates and other strange noises, especially with the top off on the Grand Sport. It's extremely cool! The LFA has absolutely perfect fit and finish. I do mean perfect. The paint alone is perfect. Last place in that arena so far goes to Lamborghini, but I'm still looking at early samples, so I know that will come up. The 458 is damn near a perfect car in all respects and the market demand is reflecting that. It looks good in person, it's a nice driver in all conditions, and it's smooth as can be. I raced through the gears on an onramp and it was extremely fast, but super smooth at the same time so not much of a kick compared to the Aventador. The Aventador hits you in the back of the head with each shift in Corsa mode like a passenger smacking you in the back of the head with a pillow to drive faster. The Aventador will raise your adrenaline the most of the four cars. The LFA may be the least, but it's still a wonderful car to drive. I've been looking at where LFAs are ending up and to my surprise many buyers are in areas of the US that do not have traditional exotic dealers. This makes sense for someone who wants to show up at any Lexus dealer for service, something the car will need very little of anyway. They took the approach that the car should be perfect the first time and I don't think you will see too many LFAs broken down by the side of the road. If I have one frustration with Lamborghini is their willingness to let owners be an involuntary part of R&D. I for one prefer the car to be right the first time, but that's just me. The LAST call I want to make is over a warranty issue. What shies me away from the LFA the most is that Lexus doesn't seem to have any plans to sustain the LFA culture after the cars are sold and that by itself will harm resale. I've asked several of their marketing guys what the plans are and I get really vapid answers. You have to sustain the culture to keep the car's value alive and the marketing guys I met give me the deer in the headlights look. It otherwise ends up as another NSX. I think if you were new to exotics, were terrified about driving them, needed lots of air bags, were concerned about care and feeding, didn't want to kill yourself in the first week but still keep up with the pack, the LFA is a terrific weapon of choice. It will hang in there on the track with the best of them and it sounds terrific. It's a very cool car. My image of an LFA driver so far is an inexperienced exotic owner. That will change over time, but I've read some of their posts about their expectations about ownership and I slap my forehead in disbelief. I know of very few owned by guys who have extensive exotic experience. Most LFA buyers are completely new to exotics and the few I've spoken with have misconceptions about exotic ownership so who knows if they will sustain their love for the car. The age demographic seems to be older than the Italian stuff. Lexus is a terrific company and the people truly stand behind their product. One of my biggest gripes about Lamborghini is how they can be a challenge when it comes to factory support. We have terrific mechanics in our area, but wow I've had some challenges over little things. That would never happen with Lexus, or Bugatti. As for the 458, I hear over and over how Ferrari routinely challenges warranty claims. I've heard it so many times, that I tend to believe it's true. All of these companies make the same mistakes over and over again- they all assume they can market, sell, support these exotics exactly like they do mainstream brands only to end up wondering what went wrong. Ferrari is the only one who has it sorted out enough to sustain the brand- then again they get culture. I think it will take a while for the Aventador to prove itself in real world use. There are too many new systems in the car that still have to be proven in owners hands. I think Lamborghini is improving and I think they are serious about rebuilding the brand from the customer base up so I have a lot of faith in some of the new management team's commitment to getting it right. Are they there yet? Nope. They discharged customer culture in 2008-forward like it was fodder to the brand and those chickens never came home in the first place. Think of all the people we all know who have left Lamborghini never to return. I don't think that will happen as often with the LFA, where customers will generally remain happy unless values really tank. I think a large percentage of LFAs will be dealership-owner owned so who knows how that will impact resale in the coming year. We already have about a dozen F458s in the Seattle area and that will reach a saturation point sooner than later. Collectors I know are staying away from the car for that reason. It's selling well because it's a damn good car and the Gallardo is way, way too yesterday for the market. The bottom line is that the LFA has earned my respect over time. You couldn't find a better bunch of people behind the brand. Paul Williamsen who's been with Toyota a long time is a true car guy in every sense and is one of the most interesting car people I've ever met. I made the calls that led to the LFA ending up at Concorso at the last minute. I think everyone here should welcome it on drives and get to know the car. It's worthy of respect. Hope this helps. I'm hosting Bugatti up here this weekend so that will be fun.

Thanks!

Thanks everyone! Really nice to feel welcome.

I've driven the Aventador about 40 miles. It's unlike anything else out there. It's radically different from the SV. We could go on and on about the details of those differences and in the end, and to bottom line it, it probably won't get me out of my SV. I think the Aventador is an amazing car all on its own. It has fastest shifts of any car I've driven and shifts so fast it almost hurts. It's like getting rear ended in a parking lot; just enough of a thud to feel like you just got an adjustment at the chiropractor. I think it's a very good car and overall Lamborghini did a terrific job but I don't see a lot of SV buyers making the jump because there is a lack of rawness necessary to get your adrenaline going. I guess the Aventador is like switching to decaf in a way. It's not likely you will go for a drive, park it and still have the adrenaline shakes. It's much easier to drive than the SV so we won't see as many piled up on trees in the first few months. It's much-much quieter inside with far less driver feedback so you have to driving a lot more aggressively to match heart rates between the two cars. Sort of like driving the Veyron which is probably its closest comparison in terms of overall driving experience. In the Veyron I'm still yawing at 120 MPH thinking about texting my order for a pizza. I think for Murc and LP640 owners, they will find it to be the biggest leap in performance. SV owners will probably smile when comparing the two; like seeing a different beautiful woman than the one you're with, but not beautiful enough to race home and draft up divorce papers. Lately we've had a lot of Shelby Cobras show up to our car events. Most of the owners are seasoned drivers with tons of experience. They gravitate towards that raw, dangerous take-no-prisoners experience and the SV/LP640 will more likely entertain that group than the Aventador. Meanwhile the Aventador will be the weapon of choice for those first time exotic owners who are terrified of anything above 80. They could be going 180 and not know it. It will kick the shit out of just about everything else out there at the moment including the 458 which is probably it's closest rival. That and the LFA, which feels incredibly good to drive, even if it does feel sluggish by comparison. Overall, it's like comparing pears and berries. I don't think you could go wrong with either the SV or the Aventador. Is the Aventador a Murcielago killer? Not really. Given the price point of a used LP640, I don't see it as enough of a difference in performance to justify dumping the LP, unless you just want a new faster car for that commute to the office. In the end, when you're out on a run with your buddies, the performance differences aren't going to amount to much in real world group drives. However, it will kick the living shit out of everyone else on that drive if things suddenly get carried away. If you're racing around the twisties, the Aventador will hang on better than anything else (again fewer marriages between Aventadors and trees) and it's not easy to upset- similar to the 458 and LFA in that regard. Fit and finish is good, but not yet perfect. I did see some body seams that are not yet there, but close. I'm tossing that one to new production. Bitch if your Aventador isn't perfect. Bottom line, it's just a different car entirely, deserving of respect, well executed in every way. I just got back from Monterey so I'm burnt out on cars. Lexus gave me a LS600hL to drive for a few days and that was damn interesting. I get it now- some "Hybrids" have almost nothing to do with environmental considerations and everything to do with the state of technology. BTW, the LFA is way cooler than I first thought. Go drive one.

Yes, that's what the factory told me. Nobody collecting a list of cars has come even close to that number, let alone 350. You won't see a lot of SV owners jumping to the Aventador anytime soon. Nothing wrong with the Aventador, it's just an entirely different experience in driving. More likely to see many buying one of each.

Thanks, but I wasn't really gone. I just don't post as much. I was in Monterey and I'm just getting caught up.

They made 186 SVs.

I'm really glad it all worked out. I know the Heady's have spent years with the club and they did carry it rather far even if it wasn't a good fit for me at the time, so I do want to say thanks to them for agreeing to a handoff. I'm sure that's not easy either. This all could have gone very badly and that wouldn't have helped anyone in the end. I wishing Andrew huge success has he moves the club forward. I'm cheering you on Andrew!

I read all this and I don't know what to think. I came to LP in good faith, been fairly open about my personal life, and I've only kept confidential what's asked of me to keep confidential. I'm even on Facebook for God sake! Yet, seriously for anyone new to this forum, I hope they read this to see what some personality deficient cowards will do to you behind closed doors simply because you have opinions and participate. To me those individuals are cancer to any decent forum. Let's summarize: I don't believe you can lower an LP640/SV and not suffer significant damage. I think many modded cars decrease the very value of the brand, but if you love it, knock yourself out. I don't hate Winkelmann. I actually LIKE the brand and some of the people behind it. I think Maurizio Reggiani is one of the coolest guys I've ever met. I'm personal friends with Manfred Fitzgerald as a result of my ARGUING about the direction of the brand. So what? He doesn't work there anymore and we're STILL friends. Did I cover everything? The last thing I have the time to do is chase false rumors about my life, my cars, my background, and whatever else goes on behind the scenes. I'm not here that much because it's become a rather negative, hostile place because of just a few people. I had no idea that I'd get flamed just because I stopped posting and that's all I did was stop posting. For those of you who said nice things and defended me, I really appreciate it and it does mean a lot. This place was never about me. It's always been about the cars and what personal stuff I share is for context only. That's what I wrote about as I'd hope others would be the same. I loved the posts where actual issues were debated, such as the one about wheels and safety. I just don't have the time to post something about cars then spend pages defending my personal life by some individuals.

Thanks for saying all this. It was nice of you.

I don't believe Manfred was fired and I never thought it was appropriate to ask him directly, however I doubt the rumor. Is it just me or does LambPower seem to be on a path of always assuming the negative with everyone and everything lately? Months ago, Manfred told me that once a design is selected, that head of the design is never again assigned to redesign the same model. This is a VW policy. Manfred's team won not just the current announced cars but something else in the pipeline. It meant that he'd have to either move to a different brand, position, or different company or stagnate in his role. He didn't know what he was going to do... Weeks later, we traded messages off topic, but we were both busy and didn't connect. I got the news that he left Lamborghini while I was in LA but given our prior conversation, I wasn't entirely surprised, which is why I doubt he was fired. We spoke not that long ago. He was offered a much higher position with a company in Germany, not in the automotive arena. Furthermore, I was always under the strong impression that he and Winkelmann had a very good working relationship. He never ever spoke disrespectfully about Winkelmann and was always focused on the brand. I think very highly of Manfred. I truly believe the guy had his heart in the brand 100% and was always working to make things better. If you want to see the strength of someone's character, watch them in an emergency situation. His actions during the Super Tropheo crash say it all. It's all there on YouTube. The guy has my deepest respect. He would also be the first to tell you that he and I didn't agree on a lot of things either, but he's a true class act. This thread had a chance to start out as something constructive; likes and dislikes of the job Winkelmann is doing as CEO. Instead, it became personal attacks about the size of his head, etc. and when I and others disagreed, it became a discussion about me and my motives. I'll say it again, I'm not in the car business and I have a responsibility to protect what's shared with me in confidence, so I simply can't comment on a lot of stuff and you're free to paint me any way you want as a result.

Some countries have different levels of standards based on volume of cars built. Others are trying to apply efficiency standards that don't make sense for exotics, especially given the low volume and low miles they are driven. As an example, the SSC Ultimate Aero can be built lighter than other cars because it's produced in such small volumes that it doesn't have to adhere to the same regs as larger volume cars.

Now, tell us how this all happened.

Fortis, you seem like a bitter guy if you're that worried about me and my motives.

Not exactly the same. Exotics are not very PC in any country and are an easy regulatory target because there are so few to protest. Some countries want to limit horsepower- not an issue for the average car, but DEFINITELY an issue for Lamborghini.

Very well done.

Fortis, you're the last guy I care about appeasing.