Countach Fuel Pump Relays....

Going through everything now......changed plugs.....got a loaner ignition box.....car starts only when injected with ether......runs a bit and will not idle for too long......suspect not getting fuel. Obviously now I am getting spark.......had no spark with old ignition module. Anyone know the location of the fuel pump relays ?? I found a diagram on the other site but I do not have a relay box in the location stated there as shown in the diagram linked below.....

 

http://www.another board.com/vbforum/f1...170/index2.html

The fuel pump relais is in the relais box in the trunk, it's the relais with the BMW sign.

 

It has to get the sign of the ignition that the engine runs otherwise it shuts down the pumps, the brown wire at the marelli coil K-Terminal is the signal wire.

The fuel pump relais is in the relais box in the trunk, it's the relais with the BMW sign.

 

It has to get the sign of the ignition that the engine runs otherwise it shuts down the pumps, the brown wire at the marelli coil K-Terminal is the signal wire.

 

 

I cannot seem to find that relay box. On my right trunk corner I have two boxes......the one more visible is marked Jetronic and what appears to be fuel vapor canisters.. In my left covered recess......off to the left of the rear trunk I have the power antena and what appears to be a radio amplifier. I see no relays or plastic box as mentioned in the other site. Do you have a picture of the area ?? Thanks !!!!!

Remove the Right radiator exhaust vent on top of the right fender. It should be right in front of you. 4 smal screws hold it on.

 

JFrazar

I cannot seem to find that relay box. On my right trunk corner I have two boxes......the one more visible is marked Jetronic and what appears to be fuel vapor canisters.. In my left covered recess......off to the left of the rear trunk I have the power antena and what appears to be a radio amplifier. I see no relays or plastic box as mentioned in the other site. Do you have a picture of the area ?? Thanks !!!!!

 

 

In front of the antenna, there should be a silver box. If I remember correctly , you undo a couple of screws and the box slides forward and swings away. This is box contains the fuel pump relay that was pictured in your earlier thread.

 

As J Frazer mentioned, the other box is just ahead of the vent in the right rear 1/4 panel. It is also in a silver box. I am not sure which relay it is though.

 

Good luck.

Remove the Right radiator exhaust vent on top of the right fender. It should be right in front of you. 4 smal screws hold it on.

 

JFrazar

 

 

My car has the fuel pump relay, fan relays, etc. in the trunk left side in the aluminum case (not plastic...as mentioned in the other site)...in the aluminum case that all along I though may be a radio amplifier......for some reason some wires looked radio related to me. So I found them just as in the diagram in the other site !!!!!!!!! ..........and two 15 amp fuses are totally melted and blown !!!!!! When I get home tonight I will replace them and hopefully the car will run fine again.

So I replaced the two fuses that were blown and melted. My car actually has 6 fuses......the diagram shows only four. The car started right up and idled normally.....initial fast idle and then down to 1000 rpm.....as always before. The car idled perfectly......I played with the throttle linkage.....had perfect response as always before......but.......when I turned the car off it would not start again !!!!!!! Engine turns over normally but cylinders do not want to fire up. Again I suspect fuel problem as I am getting spark from the coil. My box does not have a fuel relay as shown in the diagram in position Z. Instead there is a small box with a green LED light on its side and it is marked GSM KR25. Anyone know what that is ?? I do not know where else to look any more.

So I replaced the two fuses that were blown and melted. My car actually has 6 fuses......the diagram shows only four. The car started right up and idled normally.....initial fast idle and then down to 1000 rpm.....as always before. The car idled perfectly......I played with the throttle linkage.....had perfect response as always before......but.......when I turned the car off it would not start again !!!!!!! Engine turns over normally but cylinders do not want to fire up. Again I suspect fuel problem as I am getting spark from the coil. My box does not have a fuel relay as shown in the diagram in position Z. Instead there is a small box with a green LED light on its side and it is marked GSM KR25. Anyone know what that is ?? I do not know where else to look any more.

 

I would start off by checking to see if you melted those fuses again. Then I would check the fuel pump relay.

 

If you go back to the link that you posted, you will notice that the fuel pump relay is labelled as S. This is an Italmec relay. You can substitute a Bosch relay, BUT..... you do have to watch out for how the relay is configured. I did mine a while ago and remember having to check the wiring schematics on the relay to find the correct one. ( The pins or spade connectors MAY look like they will just plug in but the reality is that if the internal wires aren't the same as you original, the relay won't work.

 

 

Good luck

D.

Last night after that initial perfect start and idle....after shutting off.....and not wanting to start.....nothing in the world would start it up. The fuses were not melted at all. This morning with the car cold I put the key in the ignition and it started up like nothing ever had ever happened. I let it run for 5 minutes.....running perfectly !!!!! I turned it off......turned the key a minute later and back to not wanting to start !!!! I am stumped. I did change the relay in the S position with the same Italmec relay out of the lambda box......swapped the two relays and nothing.

My 87 gave me fits like this when I first got it. With injection, one is not supposed to depress the accelerator while starting, or so they say. After the car was warmed up, it would NEVER restart unless I would let it cool down. It would just crank until the battery would give out with no sign of even attempting to fire up.Then one day, and don't ask why I did it, I depressed the accelerator about a quarter of the way down and the engine fired right up. That's just my ritual now, never took the time to delve into why, but it works every time. Temperamental Italian I suppose!! Give it a try, if you haven't already.

 

 

 

 

 

Last night after that initial perfect start and idle....after shutting off.....and not wanting to start.....nothing in the world would start it up. The fuses were not melted at all. This morning with the car cold I put the key in the ignition and it started up like nothing ever had ever happened. I let it run for 5 minutes.....running perfectly !!!!! I turned it off......turned the key a minute later and back to not wanting to start !!!! I am stumped. I did change the relay in the S position with the same Italmec relay out of the lambda box......swapped the two relays and nothing.

 

So this morning......car cold......fired right up......idled it for over 5 minutes.....accelerated and got great response. then turned car off......nothing would get it to restart again. Car sat for 5 hours....just turned the key and it fired up.......but it shut down on its own after idling for about 5 minutes. No restarting it again !!!!!!! Cranking it and to sign of any firing going on.

So this morning......car cold......fired right up......idled it for over 5 minutes.....accelerated and got great response. then turned car off......nothing would get it to restart again. Car sat for 5 hours....just turned the key and it fired up.......but it shut down on its own after idling for about 5 minutes. No restarting it again !!!!!!! Cranking it and to sign of any firing going on.

So this morning......car cold......fired right up......idled it for over 5 minutes.....accelerated and got great response. then turned car off......nothing would get it to restart again. Car sat for 5 hours....just turned the key and it fired up.......but it shut down on its own after idling for about 5 minutes. No restarting it again !!!!!!! Cranking it and to sign of any firing going on.

 

 

I remember an owner out of Calgary had a problem similar to what your describing. In his case a wire running from the ignition was at fault. After running the car, the wire would heat up and the car would shut down. Once the wire had coolded, he was able to start the car and continue on. He ultimately replaced the wire with one of a thicker guage and solved his problem. Sorry I can't be more specific on which wire it is.

I am concerned about Permatune calling for the B+ terminal pink wire on the stock coil to not be used on the new coil setup. I wonder if this is my correct. Permatune wants the wires attached to the stock coil K terminal attached to the + terminal of the new coil.

I am concerned about Permatune calling for the B+ terminal pink wire on the stock coil to not be used on the new coil setup. I wonder if this is my correct. Permatune wants the wires attached to the stock coil K terminal attached to the + terminal of the new coil.

 

These things are hard to sort out. The same issue happend to me with another car and the fact was that the starter solenoid coil was the culprit. Its resitance changed too much with temperature and I had to wait for the car to cool. (of course i found out by calling AAA and when the guy showed up, he started it right up just fine and I looked like an ass as he gave me the evil eye....) I can see a wire doing the same things (rust inside...).

The thing is my car did not shut off on it s own, just when I needed the starter.

 

Joe,

 

I was reading about your problem. Are you sure that the blown fuses go to the fuel pump? If they do I would suspect that one of your fuel pumps is failing. I have seen this before on older fuel injected cars. As the pump is running, it starts to lock up as it builds up heat. When the car broke down on you the failing pump blew the fuse's because the Amp draw was over 15 amps, to keep the pump running as it was locking up. Now the pump is just getting warm and starting to lock up and not allowing the car to restart until it completely cools. The only way to really test this is with a fuel preasure gauge in the fuel loop while the car is running. If the pump is going bad you will start to see the fuel preasure drop off as the car warms up and the longer it runs. It may take some time. If you do not have spark when the car warms up don't rule out a failing dist. rotor either.

 

Just trying to help. Problems like these can be a real pain. I already have the t-shirt.

 

Joe Frazar

With the car hoisted on my lift I uncovered one of the two fuel pumps. With the ignition key on I put a test light to the + lead of the one pump and it had no juice going to it. I am assuming that with the ignition on that terminal should be continuosly hot.....or is it the case that when fuel pressure is attained the circuit to that terminal is opened ?? Tomorrow I will check the other pump. Just curious as to why the car should not at least start if one bank may have one good fuel pump. Not sure why and if both pumps should be shutting off simultaneously. I am not that good with electrical circuits and this car is a nightmare........wiring coming out of everywhere. My mechanic, Ignazio Reina, just left for a one month vacation to Italy on Friday so I will keep trying to get to the problem on my own. Thanks for all your input guys !!!!!

I am concerned about Permatune calling for the B+ terminal pink wire on the stock coil to not be used on the new coil setup. I wonder if this is my correct. Permatune wants the wires attached to the stock coil K terminal attached to the + terminal of the new coil.

That's correct because the MM coil works with +/- and trigger (white wire) whereas the permatune and MSD coils get about 500volts directly from the box, they don't need the 12V from the battery.

 

The Permatune looks a little bit ugly IME

 

This is the mentioned box, they changed the material and location within the MY 1987

MY-1987 and 25th, the small black box is the smog pump control unit.

 

The relais box is a problem, there are 5 or 6 relais in there 2 for the fans, one for ignition/fuel pumps and the fan exciter (these 4 are in row) on the right top the starter relais (italmec) and finally the fuel pump shut down relais (italmec or bosch)

Some of the newer box have a fuse on top of the ignition/fuel pump relais

Italian electronics.

 

 

There Pasta their time.

RedLambo,

On your photo where you write "type won't last".......is that an inline fuse you have circled ?? I am not home now but will look at it when I get home tonight. Thank you for your help. My car is still down. Joe

 

 

 

 

That's correct because the MM coil works with +/- and trigger (white wire) whereas the permatune and MSD coils get about 500volts directly from the box, they don't need the 12V from the battery.

 

The Permatune looks a little bit ugly IME

 

This is the mentioned box, they changed the material and location within the MY 1987

MY-1987 and 25th, the small black box is the smog pump control unit.

 

The relais box is a problem, there are 5 or 6 relais in there 2 for the fans, one for ignition/fuel pumps and the fan exciter (these 4 are in row) on the right top the starter relais (italmec) and finally the fuel pump shut down relais (italmec or bosch)

Some of the newer box have a fuse on top of the ignition/fuel pump relais

 

Joe,

 

I was just responding in a little offbeat humor. Raymond is the one who deserves the credit as he was generous enough to post his information and solutions to your problem.

 

That being said I have read through his solutions some time ago and do believe those are inline fuses. I am sure Raymond will chime back in soon enough to confirm things.

 

Best of luck, Sincerely Vic

So, I do not have those inline fuses but i did find one black wire with frayed end......just cannot figure out where it connects. It is one of the 2 black wires that comes off the starter relay.......the other of the 2 black wires connects to the harness plug that is fixed to one wall of the box housing all this. I will take a photo and post it.

 

 

 

 

Joe,

 

I was just responding in a little offbeat humor. Raymond is the one who deserves the credit as he was generous enough to post his information and solutions to your problem.

 

That being said I have read through his solutions some time ago and do believe those are inline fuses. I am sure Raymond will chime back in soon enough to confirm things.

 

Best of luck, Sincerely Vic

 

Off the starter relay.....the red relay in the box......there are two black wires. One black wire connects to the white harness plug mounted on the box wall......the other black wire appears to have disconnected from somewhere in the box.......the end copper strands are a bit frazzled.......see photos below.....I have placed blue tape on the disconnected wire. I cannot figure out where that wire connects.

 

 

 

 

That last picture was from JRV who had to fix a 25th, here the whole story: http://www.countach.ch/Fusebox/index.html

 

On QV GLA12997 the entire box is rebuilt, therefore there is no more help available for the loose black wire.

 

Perhaps this picture helps

hi 88 1/2 qv , Maybe i can help,as a electronics engineer of some fourty years, i would suggest that the black wire either came from the white plug shown or maybe an earth tag attached to the inside of the box lid asumming it is metal, wires that sit in a postion for 20 years tend to harden up the plastic and don't easily bend, given its shape and length there are only a few choices, maybe it went down onto the pcb that holds the fuses, but there is a reasonable chance it came from the white plug,i would suggest count up the strands of wire at the end of the black wire and with a strong magnifer have alook inside the rear of the plug where they get crimped to the connector, by the look of it 1/2 the strands broke of at the insulation and 1/2 at the crimp point you should be able to see the remains protruding from the rear of a crimp in the rear of that connector, or from down on the fuse pcb,hey its worth a go.

 

Best Regards

Lambolexus