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Hell yeh, Esprit is an amazing car!!!

It's all speculation anyway till real tests come out. Ferrari engineering isn't puppy buisiness at all. Especially the suspension/brakes system. Both cars will be extremely close to each other, but I beleive the POS will be a half a hair ahead on a road coarse.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...7&page_number=3 It's Chevy that did the testing from what it says. Here's the link. 127 is badass if it's true.

Awesome project. Good luck reaching completion.

HAHAHA

Please noone shoot me for saying this. I saw the new ZO-6 tested in Car and Driver. 11.7 @ 127. True or was this track fucked up too? I was amazed at these numbers as I was in the FAKE 430 numbers I saw in the same magazine.

Keep the fire burning hot so we can hang with these boys sooner before later.

I wrote "probobly" anyone on this board. I have NO problem backing down to you if you know more than me (which you do), and I do "probobly" know more about Lambo's mechanical system than most guys here. What's the percentage of Diablo owners on this board that have taken the car apart and back together as far as I have? There's no need for a successful individual who owns a Lambo to get their hands dirty and work on their cars. I'm sure most have othe rimportant things to do than maintain their cars. If you're an ameatur garage mechanic, and you are smart enough to do it yourself and have the balls to work on it I'd be very impressed!! I was very carefull to pick my words for that statement. I got a lot of grief for people misreading. No a problem. As far as the "opinion about different cars" statement, I actually like Lambo's more than Ferrari's if I had to pick one, and I was never opinionated in my entire post. I simply asked the question that's in my title and the guys were kind enough to correct a few misconceptions I had about the performance numbers of both cars.

A better audience for a car like this would be DSMTRADER.com.

I like it too for some reason.

Ando kiter masary.

I have owned 6 Supra TT's in the past including a 98' Quicksilver 6-spd. I'm such a retard for selling that car. I would absolutely love to see Allen get his hands on a perfectly setup 600rwhp pump gas 6-spd and give us his take. This is one of my customers cars. http://www.suprastore.com/kitrdwihks30.html When he got it from Tozer who owns Suprastore, it was definetly NOT in the advertised condition it was described. It wasn't making anywhere near the HP he said it was. Since my buddy got it, we changed engine management systems and got him bigger injectors. Since that it made 850rwhp on low boost. We never pushed it past 31psi yet, but hitting close to 1000rwhp is a possibilty. It can roast the rear 345-30-19 tires in 4th gear when they're cold. Not something a normal person can keep straight, but powering from 2nd through the top of 5th is an unreal sesation. We also polished and chromed absolutely every peice of metal and alluminum under the hood, put a FJO WB in it, and fixed all the fucked up and messy wiring under the hood. It's the best example of a Supra Turbo in my opinion. Like a mini exotic. BTW, SW is a famous guy in the Supra world. One of the craziest drivers and he has amazing taste in his setups in all his cars. I dont think his car is sold yet. Here's the link : http://www.vipimports.com/1995t72blacksupra.php

I own Broadway Performance. I deal with Nate at DSMotorsport all the time. Lightning, it's awesome to see a 22 year old doing the right thing during college, working your ass off, and getting a sweet respectable job afterwards. I certainly cant stand seeing/talking/dealing with losers that barely graduate or drop out of college and work a dead end job or sleep all day. Congrats on starting your life earning some real cash and getting what you want. We have a great deal to learn from these real big dogs that post here. I had a white 99' T/A 30th Anniversary 6-spd with the blue wheels and stripes with 12K miles! I put a blower on it and sold it. Torquey car!

Clax, a very true statement. I try to never open my mouth unless someone tells me I cant check air pressure. hehe Rob, I still obviously have loads of research to do. Cant buy yet. Financially, Im ready, mentally, not yet. Plus I'd like to wait till as close to 25 as possible. I want to buy a house and fully move out from my parents place before I make this purchase. That number is very attractive for a 360 though! What year, milleage, and trans is it? One more question regarding my original topic. Do the majority of Ferrari owners acknowledge they are 2nd best?

Sorry, I'll try.

Rather arrogant and presumptuous aren't you! Did you see what I wrote right after that sentence? I doubt many of you guys have taken apart your Lambo's farther than I have take the 99 apart. I wasn't aiming that line that I know more about the Lambo's mechanical system than most of the guys here in a bad way. I just didn't think most older established and obviously super successful guys who own Lambo's will go changing their own clutches or ripping half the top end apart. I didn't mean it in any type of aggresive way here. I called noone here a "technical moron". I also didn't say I know more than EVERYONE, I said MOST and it's a valid statement. I even wrote that obviously any Lambo tech will school me in working on Lambo's, but that's besides the point. I am at the top of my game here in the North East and many poeple come to me and my buisisness for special needs. Rob, I didn't ignore your post, I forget to reply to it because I wrote so much. I feel privilaged to go for a ride in your 360 and get to meet you, it would make my week, or month. We just have to wait for this damn snow to go away. Like I said, I have driven my friends Stradalle, but being in the pressance of another 360 again will only make me even that much more comfortable in the car, and make my blood boil to get an exotic already. Since you are close and it's important for me to earn Allan's respect, maybee you'd like to see a few cars Iv'e put together and report back. I seriously doubt that anyone here in this area would want to TT their Lambo, but ti's worth a try. And I still love the way most Lambo's and Ferrari''s look. That's why I'll have one in a year or so. Limey, thanks for the explanation on the test they put the 430 through. I will gladly retract that statement I made about 430's wacking Lambo's. I have no issue with that. It is unfortunate the magazines do that shit, but how was I suppost to know. It's also partially my fault because I guess I saw the worst times in the magazines about the Lambo's and saw the times for that 430 going downhill. Just from this thread, my perspective on Ferrari vs. Lambo has changed almost 180 degrees. I am really not trying to be arrogant at all in my posts. I am very humble in person and you guys obviously misunderstood me. I am a top level racing/fabrication/auto tech and the only reason I said I am more mechanically adept in working in a Lambo is that reason. If all of you do what I do all day long, day in and day out, I'd swallow my words and this would be the last message board I'd ever need post in. There would be no need to go elseware. I am sorry if I offended anyone, but I guess I was misunderstood. There's no need for all the "owned" pics. And like i said before, having older rich guys as friends makes me smarter which is good.

"Us Lambo guys" won't be running from any 430's. Bring them on. 12.1@118? Try 11.72 @ 122.52. If you honestly believe the recent 430 tests are consistently reproduceable, you are on crack. Even the Ferrari diehards that I speak to (whom are purchasing 430's) don't believe it. That's got to tell you something. And, even IF the 430 does run a legit 11.7 (yeah right), and the Murci runs an 11.7, any idea what you can expect past the 1/4 mile? Hmmm. V12 or V8. I wonder.... Wow, OK I never saw that publication before. The numbers I wrote were just what I remember from a Car and Driver. That changes a lot and makes me love the new Lambo's even more. I hope you guys know I dont hate Lambo's or Ferrari's. I like both and they are very different cars.

-"To the first part - Car and Driver ran the 430 DOWNHILL to get those times - seriously. And a Murci runs faster than 12.1 @ 118MPH." Why do you say Car and Driver ran the car downhill? They even said in that article that they asked Road and Track and they got similar numbers. They were also in disbeleif till they called their sister magaizine. -"To the second part - "the exhaust tone of a Diablo got boring" - are you kidding? The sound of a V-12 is the most incredible exhaust note." Truthfully, I did get a little bored with the same exhaust note in the Diablo. I never said I didn't like it or that it sounded bad, but it got a little boring on a 3 hour trip on the highway. Like I also said in my original post, "Driving a twin T61 DBB Supra with twin Tial 46mm bandclamp wastegates and twin Tial BOV's through a 4 inch Ti exhaust spoils me a little." The sound of a huge single spooling and holding ful boost with an open atmosphere wastegate is pretty involved. Have any of you guys gone for a ride in a well prepped 700+rwhp Supra? I have actually soarced a Supra for the guy that owned the Stradalle after I took him for a ride in a 850rwhp widebody car. Ripping the rear 345-30-19 tires loose at 80mph in 3rd gear got him thinking and I found him a pristine 98 Quicksilver 6-spd. It's now at the shop undergoing a nice setup. -"To the third part - no offense, but I don't know how many Owners are going to turn their cars over to a 23 year old for modding. Again, no offense, but at your age how much mechanical experience do you have with a Lambo? How much experience in general do you have with other cars, you have only been out of high school for what 5 years or so? I wouldn't let a 23 year old work on my Plastic mess-06. Not trying to flame you, but that's my opinion." Actually Limey, the first time I ever met my customer who owns the Lambo he let me take it for a ride. I did feel amazing and is a stunning car to look at. It's a pearl yellow roadster MOMO edition with an Alpine TV face and Fikse 18 inch wheels with custom Lambo symbol center caps. This man also owns the 996 TT 6-spd I have driven and modifed for him, an 04 S55 AMG which I have also driven and modified for him. The man is worth millions and knows I am no punk 23 year old kid when it comes to buisisness. I never went to college and I have owned my buisisness since 20 and race car fabrication in my blood. I OWN the buisiness, I dont rent. From 17-20 I saved masive cash and worked an unhealthy amount to get what I want. I can almost gaurantee you there is 1 in 5000 23 year old that have accompliced and earned what I have in yes, 5 years out of high school. I have never lied once in my life and I dont really care to impress anyone. I have impressed myself and it makes me feel great to see you established older guys, try to mock me in disbeleif that I have seen, driven and own what I own at this early age. Asking about my mechancal experience with a Lambo? I know more about Lambo's mechanical systems than probobly anyone on this board. Not a real Lambo tech of coarse. I did the clutch in his car, the valve cover gaskets which decided to leak with only 6000 miles on the car (this requires to reomve the entire fuel injection system and intake manifold), and all minor maintanence on the car. All without even a service manual. I'm sure I can dissassemble an entire Diablo and put it back together. Working on his Diablo was actually a lot simpler than working on many different cars. The owner has seen my shop once. Anytime his cars need anything I go pick them up and leave him my M3 in the driveway. I have built many HUGE HP cars from scratch and laugh at a lot of stuff I see on "mechanical auto TV shows". I can make damn near anything from metal, let alone fabing up piping to make a turbo header or intercoller piping fabrication. The only thing I have no experience with in the auto racing world is making roll cages ar chasis work. That's the only thing I dont have the space or tooling for. Allan, I was just simply curious as to why you guys have the hatred toward Ferrari, I now understand why. I am not questioning your motives. Your opinion is what it is and I fully respect that. Why the hostitlity towards me? I know for a fact the Murcie and Gallardo dont run in the 11.7 @ 123 range. I dont think I ever saw a Lambo tested in the 11's, stock. But even if the 430 was a little slower than what they advertise, it will still walk away from the Lambo's. I'm not sure if you and Limey doubt the 430's publicated numbers becasue it's the Lambo adversary or if you really dont think it'll run that. I never said I tested one myself, but I dont see it being a lie. The numbers from the weight, HP, gearing, aerodynamics, etc all add up. Actually a 123 MPH is good for an even lower ET. I'm sure if the car can actually run a 123mph, that is someone put a set of TA/KD's on it, that time would drop even more. I have over 300 drag slips amd know a thing or two about performance. I'd actually be thrilled to see a Murcie/Gallardo/Diablo/360/430 go to the track. This spring, I'm sure I can talk my friend with the Lambo to go to the track with the car. I will be doing the driving though, he cant drive for shit. -"Im willing to bet, youve never even sat in a Diablo. Dont come here trying to promote your shop, and as for Balls, my Diablo as at a real shop as we speak, getting ready to be twin turboed." Like I said, I have never lied in my entire life including message boards. If you sit me in a Diablo right now and let me take it for a ride, I gaurantee not even the smallest of smiles hits my face. I sucked up the Lambo driving experience for a total of 6 hours. I have put more miles on that damn car than the owner did, I think. I was amazing, PERIOD. The only thing that bothered me on the trip was the huge blind spot and my left leg wasn't very comfortable after a long time driving it. Wow, so I think you mentioned you deal with SP, I think that's where your car is. I would love to be in their shoes to be able to unleash my creativity to twin turbo that car. Put it this way, I could care less to promote my buisisness here to such a small audience, and would probobly offer your twin turbo setup at half the labor they are charging you, just for the experience, being the first one, and the exposure I'd get in the big picture. I am no amateur when it comes to building cars. When 18-21 year old college kids were getting wasted and high in their dorm's I was at the shop 14 hours a day building and gaining experience, sweating and bleeding. My doors are always packed and getting into my shop for even something simple will take you a few weeks unless you're a high end customer. There's no waiting for those people. Yes I would love to have more Lambo customers, but it has to start somewhere. Once you meet me and see my operation, you'll know I am no average 23 year old. And I just turned 23 on Feb 18. Please reread my obove post as if I'm not 23 if that makes you feel better Allan. I have great respect for you as you seen to be the leader here on the board that everyone else respects. I learned most of my tactics and buisisness skills from older guys who have been through it all and made their money. That's also one of the reasons I come to this board, very few of you are people I cant learn something from. Thanks to everyone who is giving me their answer/opinon as to why you hate on ferrari's. I agree with some and disagree with others. Looking forward to having a good time on your boards, and hopefully put together some kind of gathering here in the North East when spring finnaly comes around to show off our cars.

Oh yeh, 612 definetly sucks. I really wouldn't even bother driving one. Damn that's a lot of fires abolfaz. About the attitudes of Ferrari owners, I think it's just speculation. You can talk to anyone with any type of high end car and get shot down pretty quick. There's not much of a difference between attitudes of Lambo owners and Ferrari owners. There's nice guys that'll talk to you and bad guys that'll shit on you from both parties.

Thanks for the replies fellas. The older Ferrari's are purly for image and saying "I have a Ferrari". And there's nothing wrong with that for the guy that just wants the status, and cares less about driving hard. I know a lot of older guys with many different exotics and I have driven most of them from 996 TT's to Lotus and all kinds of crap. I just turned 23 so most guys that I deal with are older than me. 360's are ALMOST just a "name/status" car. I have driven a normal 360 and a Stradalle. Nothing stellar about their acceleration, but I felt the same about the 6.0 as well. But I am not a fair person to test. I drive/bulid/tune wicked street cars all day long. Both 360's and Diablo's stop and turn very well. There's not many streets in this North East area to fully wring out those cars around a turn, even some of the Jap cars (Supras/EVO's) I put together get very tossable. You need a road coarse like Pocono or Lime Rock to find their limits. Craig, nice to see a celebrity like yourself on this board. But why mock the 430's numbers? Seeing the 430's stats in Car and Driver got my blood a little hot. 11.7 @ 123 or something like that if I remember right. Murcie and Gallardo run around 12.1 @ 118, no? 5mph and 3-4 tenths will put that car considerably well ahead of you Lambo guys. For the money you pay for these cars, NEW, I'd expect the corporations to make the cars a little faster. I'm positive they can do it, reliably too, but the future cars will probobly suffer so they probobly raise the bar little by little now that I think about it. Ferrari really did make a huge jump though from the 360 to 430 acceleration. Possibly a little too much all at once. I dont think there's much room for improvement in the next 5 years or so when a F500 or some shit comes out. If they raise the HP level to 600 for a car for $200K and it runs 11.4@126, I'll be FULLY impressed and call the car perfection. The exhaust note of the Stradalle wasn't that bad. The car was actually a little monotone for me, but the Diablo got a little boring after a while. Stab the throttle and it sounds good, but not great. These were cars with stock exhausts though. I heard a couple sounds clips of some of the newer Lambo's with aftermarket exhausts, they sounded a little nicer. I guess I am also not a valid person to give my opinion here. Driving a twin T61 DBB Supra with twin Tial 46mm bandclamp wastegates and twin Tial BOV's through a 4 inch Ti exhaust spoils me a little. I have owned 6 Supras before this Lex. My one friend has a yellow 360 Spyder 6-spd with a Tubi and I thought it sounded nice and raspy as he was driving away from my gym. Too bad I cought up to him in the Lex and wasted his ass. :finga: But that car will still get him pussy 9 out of 10 X more than I will in any of my cars if a girl had to choose regardless of our looks. The one thing I liked about the Diablo was the gearing. 60mph in 1st and 100 in 2nd is cool as hell. Being used to Supra's where the shifter is down and to the left puts you in 2nd and you're at 60mph. Lambo's lower left position is 1st and you still finish it to 60mph!!! It was a pretty wild sensation the first time I beat on the car. My goal is to own an exotic before I turn 25. Ferrari or Lambo. If Ferrari, it'll be at least a 355 convertible or early 360 hardtop. I know the market value for those cars. If Lambo I'd have to find out what year/milleage Diablo will be a tad over $100K. I dont like loans or financing. I also know I'd have to do something instantly with the wheels of a Diablo of the earlier ones, as well as some minor body changes. I haven't fully researched both makes yet, so I am still fully undecided, but have driven both. If I had to pick this early it'll be the Diablo. V12 is cool and a TT V12 is cooler. How many of you guys have the balls to do some serious mods to your cars other than intake/exhuast/ecu crap? I know there's not a lot of "kits" and shit but a major/highly talanted tuning/fab shop can do whatever you want. If one of you Diablo guys have the balls to give me your car to twin turbo it, I'd give you one major hell of a deal on labor. The exposure after a job like that will probobly make me have to move to a bigger building to handle more work. I know it's been done before, but still not enough.

I usually just read this board and have never posted. I am just a little curious why some of you guys, coughAllenLambocough, are always hating on Ferrari's, especially the new 430. I know it's not superior to the Lambo name, but it will wack any stock Lambo ever made on almost any type of race coarse. Yes they are cheaper cars and a little less image orientated, but are still super cars. Why the disrespect. It still your Italtian cousin. BTW, my name is John and own a tuner shop in North Jersey. I mainly specialize in Supra/EVO/DSM's. A DSM is an Eclipse or Talon and are the streets top budget bruiser. You can build a 400whp pump gas 3000lb car for under $10,000 including the car running a mid-high 11 at around 117-124mph. I'm sure you all know about Supras and EVO's. I have only one Lambo customer with a 99 Diablo Roadster MOMO edition. It has a plaque inside the car stating that it's 1/12. I drove it to Atlantic City in NJ for a car show where it took first place. It has just a few mild upgrades. It's not fast for me, but it makes you feel like a million dollars driving it. I myslef own a 95 Eclipse GSX street/race car, 720awhp/601awtq. A 93' Lexus SC300 with a 2JZGTE swap (Supra TT engine), 6-spd, T66 DBB single turbo upgrade. Lastly an 03' red/red 6-spd M3. It's nice to be on your board.