Jalpa "barn" find

i help when i can .........

Joe,

 

Thanks for the info!

 

I have not been into my motor yet. I stopped when things got to taking the engine apart. The list of what I did is long, but I never got into the motor itself.

 

The valve tools are the ones I think I was referring to. I saw a picture of one for sale and it was very crude. Probably not too hard to make, but like everyone says, needed.

 

I know Evan's makes the stainless valves, but I am not positive they sell them. I bet they would if you asked them, but I think they prefer to do the whole valve job themselves.

 

By "rod" bearing do you mean "cam" bearing? Cam bearing is the most popular diagnosis I got, broken lifter rod was second. Slipping cylinder liner was mentioned, but unlikely. Most likely not a broken valve because the engine runs smooth. It was low in the engine, perhaps a crank bearing?

 

I will do my best to describe it for you. I was driving for about an hour and at low RPM I starting to hear a ping.... bang.... pink... bang. Like someone dangling a wrench on a string over a spinning lawnmower blade. Noise... 2 second pause... noise. It happened at a light, I started looking for a place to pull over and when I started to move, the higher revs made the noise go away. I thought my timing chain was banging, because I knew it was loose and drove on for a little while. After a few minutes, I started hearing the noise at high RPM and it was getting louder. I pulled over and it was really bad when the engine slowed. It sounded like something was banging around in the heart of the engine, low, inside the block maybe. I had it trailered to the shop. They said I was low on oil, but I had topped off before the two hour drive. When the car was full of oil again, the sound was much quieter, but still a ping and clank every couple seconds. I want to mention again, other than the banging noise the engine ran perfectly smooth and purred like a kitten. What ever is wrong does not effect the tuning or the way it runs at all.

 

I decided to have Evan's rebuild the motor and rework it, but it has not happened yet. I hear great things about them. After the time and money I spent and all of the problems and bad workmanship I found, I decided it made sense to have Evan's completely tear it down, resolve what is wrong and do all of the preventative work recommended.

 

My car has NEVER run right in my possession. It arrived a mess. I spent a year and $10,000 sorting it and it ran for about 2 to 3 hours before the problem above. I have no baseline to know what it should run like. It always had rattles coming from the chain area.

 

Chris

well i can constructively add that both Jalpas i had were noisy as hell. part of me thinks its the cam chains, but the whole engine just seems like it makes a rattling sound at idle. much more noticeable when fully warmed up, yet oil pressure and temps, as well as performance , were all on par. i do know that rubber timing belts on engines in general quiet down a huge amount of noise and vibration in any given engine, and chains tend to "transmit" the sounds of the mechanical workings. with so many cars having belts now, it seems to me that many of us are just not used to the racket of the chain drives. i have had really loud gear drives on a few hot rod chevy engines, and the sounds are about the same at idle.

 

besides, these cars are hand built and unique!!!!

I can hear the chain sounds on mine, but it's pretty faint. Nothing like a gear drive on a small block. I can't hear it unless I open up the hood. I don't hear anything in the interior also. I don't hear them at all on my Countach which is chain driven, but it doesn't have many miles since it had the engine out. The valves that everyone is looking for are made by Manley. The intake number is Manley Special 11660 1.710 head 4.550 OAL .135 tip. The exhaust number is Manley Special 11663 1.490 head 4.500 OAL .085 tip.

Valves = I thought they had to be fabricated. Makes sense though that there is a replacement part out there. I bet Lamborghini bought them from a supplier, so it makes sense there would be another option in that size.

 

Noise = With my car, every time I fired up the engine, any and everyone around said "what is that noise!?". The chain noise is a metalic gurgling sound that almost drowns out the exhaust note at idle. Once the car warms up it quiets down.

 

Hope this all helps and informs anyone considering a Jalpa barn find. I think we may be getting a little off track, but I thinks it is informative to what it is like fixing and living with a Jalpa. Once again, mine was advertised as mechanically perfect.

 

A couple issues I have not figured out are weather stripping. The doors are the same as the Espada, but the front roof line and triangle pieces at the windshield corners are not available from Lamborghini. The driver corner piece is missing on my car so there is a giant hole where the door windshield and roof meet. I live in Oregon and it rains 6 months out of the year. I am also missing a large metal plate off the belly that covers the transmission tunnel. $900 part and it is just a flat plate with some venting. Could have it fabricated, or make it, but it all takes time money and tools.

Valves = I thought they had to be fabricated. Makes sense though that there is a replacement part out there. I bet Lamborghini bought them from a supplier, so it makes sense there would be another option in that size.

 

Noise = With my car, every time I fired up the engine, any and everyone around said "what is that noise!?". The chain noise is a metalic gurgling sound that almost drowns out the exhaust note at idle. Once the car warms up it quiets down.

 

Hope this all helps and informs anyone considering a Jalpa barn find. I think we may be getting a little off track, but I thinks it is informative to what it is like fixing and living with a Jalpa. Once again, mine was advertised as mechanically perfect.

 

A couple issues I have not figured out are weather stripping. The doors are the same as the Espada, but the front roof line and triangle pieces at the windshield corners are not available from Lamborghini. The driver corner piece is missing on my car so there is a giant hole where the door windshield and roof meet. I live in Oregon and it rains 6 months out of the year. I am also missing a large metal plate off the belly that covers the transmission tunnel. $900 part and it is just a flat plate with some venting. Could have it fabricated, or make it, but it all takes time money and tools.

 

 

get some aircraft sheet metal guys to make you one. should be cheap and easy.

Sorry for long delay, in replying.

 

You need to check the bearing for the cam drive chains at the bottom of the timing cover by the oil pump. This is my first guess. - Some questions for you?

 

1. Have you lost compression on any of the cyl?

2. Have you removed the Water Pump/Dissy Drive belt and turned the water pump shaft to check for a failed bearing?

3. Have you Done a mechanical oil preasure check? Is the oil preasure much lower than before or no change? (Sometimes you can have a failed rod bearing and still have oil preasure.)

4. Does the noise come from the timing chain area. You can remove the lower timing cover with the engine in the car and have a look. Lots of little nuts and bolts in this area that might have failed or come lose.

 

A note to some of your comments. Jalpa motors do not have cam bearings they ride in machined heads. The rod bearings are the bearings that are at the end of the connecting rod around the crankshaft.

 

 

PM for my cell number if you want to discuss.

 

Joe Frazar

 

 

 

Joe,

 

Thanks for the info!

 

I have not been into my motor yet. I stopped when things got to taking the engine apart. The list of what I did is long, but I never got into the motor itself.

 

The valve tools are the ones I think I was referring to. I saw a picture of one for sale and it was very crude. Probably not too hard to make, but like everyone says, needed.

 

I know Evan's makes the stainless valves, but I am not positive they sell them. I bet they would if you asked them, but I think they prefer to do the whole valve job themselves.

 

By "rod" bearing do you mean "cam" bearing? Cam bearing is the most popular diagnosis I got, broken lifter rod was second. Slipping cylinder liner was mentioned, but unlikely. Most likely not a broken valve because the engine runs smooth. It was low in the engine, perhaps a crank bearing?

 

I will do my best to describe it for you. I was driving for about an hour and at low RPM I starting to hear a ping.... bang.... pink... bang. Like someone dangling a wrench on a string over a spinning lawnmower blade. Noise... 2 second pause... noise. It happened at a light, I started looking for a place to pull over and when I started to move, the higher revs made the noise go away. I thought my timing chain was banging, because I knew it was loose and drove on for a little while. After a few minutes, I started hearing the noise at high RPM and it was getting louder. I pulled over and it was really bad when the engine slowed. It sounded like something was banging around in the heart of the engine, low, inside the block maybe. I had it trailered to the shop. They said I was low on oil, but I had topped off before the two hour drive. When the car was full of oil again, the sound was much quieter, but still a ping and clank every couple seconds. I want to mention again, other than the banging noise the engine ran perfectly smooth and purred like a kitten. What ever is wrong does not effect the tuning or the way it runs at all.

 

I decided to have Evan's rebuild the motor and rework it, but it has not happened yet. I hear great things about them. After the time and money I spent and all of the problems and bad workmanship I found, I decided it made sense to have Evan's completely tear it down, resolve what is wrong and do all of the preventative work recommended.

 

My car has NEVER run right in my possession. It arrived a mess. I spent a year and $10,000 sorting it and it ran for about 2 to 3 hours before the problem above. I have no baseline to know what it should run like. It always had rattles coming from the chain area.

 

Chris

 

Jalpa.ch is a web site, many of the part cross overs are on it.

Joe,

 

1. I did not do a compression check. The car was running very smooth, so I did not suspect anything of that nature.

2. I had the water pump rebuilt right before my failure (3 hours run time). The sound is coming from under the engine, so the water pump was not suspected.

3. No oil pressure check.

4. Sound does not come from the chain area. Seems to come from the bottom center of the engine. Seems to come from deep inside, not on the top, ends or sides.

 

I don't feel comfortable tearing into it myself. I had hoped to get a rebuild "someday" in order to get the heads and valves redone. With the problems I mentioned, I now just want to get the whole thing done and done by somebody who knows a lot more than I do. I feel good about having Evan's do it. I decided if I was going to get this problem looked at, I would do the valves, heads, performance exhaust, smog pump taken out, wiring cleaned up, MSD with rev limiter (I have MSD, but no limiter), expanding of oil channels, and any other upgrades Evan's, Raymond, and any other owner recommends during a rebuild. I want reliability out of my car. I have little interest in power gains. I hope to someday have a reliable, clean car to cruise and go to shows with.

 

I thought I would really enjoy working on my car, but it actually frustrates the hell out of me. Fun when it goes well, I want to take a sledge to it when it goes badly.

As for the Gullwing-car, I tried to buy it, but before they got it to the shop, it was sold....

 

So, someone else has to do gods work on it:(

I can hear the chain sounds on mine, but it's pretty faint. Nothing like a gear drive on a small block. I can't hear it unless I open up the hood. I don't hear anything in the interior also. I don't hear them at all on my Countach which is chain driven, but it doesn't have many miles since it had the engine out. The valves that everyone is looking for are made by Manley. The intake number is Manley Special 11660 1.710 head 4.550 OAL .135 tip. The exhaust number is Manley Special 11663 1.490 head 4.500 OAL .085 tip.

 

I hate to necro post here... but on these valves, is the stem diameter listed in their catalog for these the same? I noticed the differences on these are not exactly what are listed in the catalog but very close with custom dimensions. Before doing something along those lines, my assumption would be the stem diameter is what's listed? .3110?

 

These seem to partially cross reference as similar to the dodge viper, but here is what's listed in the catalog with a -10 next to it. 11660-10 Int. 2.055 .3110 .100 Longer 5.828 .110 12° x 3/8" .050 .080 7° Dish 114

 

Also curious... any cross referenced performance (modern day material) pistons? If not I suppose I could have some custom made if I decide to.

I would think you could have the cyls honed or bored to fit a custom set. I know with the Diablo refurb on lamboweb, the guy in UAE went with custom or other off the shelf pistons.

I would think you could have the cyls honed or bored to fit a custom set. I know with the Diablo refurb on lamboweb, the guy in UAE went with custom or other off the shelf pistons.

Yeah, will see how the pistons look when they come out. I plan on at least doing a refresher on bearings and what not and new head gaskets in the spring. I want to worry about nada on the car for a while to come.

Definitely makes sense! I know I checked out just new piston rings in case mine were bad and just the set of rings is about $2k for the V12. Hopefully you'll be ok with what you have or at least for a few years!

That seems silly for piston rings. no aftermarket manufacturers make them? I suppose when that time comes I can just check the dimensions. There's tons of performance manufacturers out there, no reason one couldn't just cross reference diameters and machined dimensions. Bore is 86mm so just need to know axial height and radial width really.

Yeah all that is in the shop manual for the Diablo at least. I'm sure there are other options but I was kinda doing a doomsday scenario just as food for thought.

Yeah it's a fair point. I'm quite fine with spending whatever I need to if it comes to that. But of course, if at all possible, wish to go with modern materials and machining. Not only cost efficient but more efficient overall if I can update a near 30 year old engine.

I hate to necro post here... but on these valves, is the stem diameter listed in their catalog for these the same? I noticed the differences on these are not exactly what are listed in the catalog but very close with custom dimensions. Before doing something along those lines, my assumption would be the stem diameter is what's listed? .3110?

 

These seem to partially cross reference as similar to the dodge viper, but here is what's listed in the catalog with a -10 next to it. 11660-10 Int. 2.055 .3110 .100 Longer 5.828 .110 12° x 3/8" .050 .080 7° Dish 114

 

Also curious... any cross referenced performance (modern day material) pistons? If not I suppose I could have some custom made if I decide to.

 

 

Jalap.ch has the valve dimensions for Manley. Evans has found some type of pistons that he uses in his rebuilds. They might be custom made for him.

Jalap.ch has the valve dimensions for Manley. Evans has found some type of pistons that he uses in his rebuilds. They might be custom made for him.

 

Thanks, I'll give them another call. Tried yesterday and they were closed for the holidays. I'm reading such mixed information and this thread seems to clear so much of it up. One guy told me I would need tons of specialty tools. Then I see here that people did it with basic tools and some improvisation. Another told me if they rebuild the engine, it would cost $60,000. Another told me $20,000. I said, "I don't want someone to build it... I want to build it, where can I get the parts?" and everyone insists that it's impossible. Frustrating.

 

I appreciate all the DIY advice and motivation to do their own work. As far as I'm concerned, engines are engines. Sure, maybe I need to improvise and make a few tools, big whoop. Doesn't scare me. I just want to know where to get the parts so I can start my journey haha.

 

Thanks again Earlycat.

have you called GT Car Parts in Phoenix?

They seem to have sourced some vintage Lamborghini parts from Countach and Diablo, and when I had my Jalpa they had what I needed.

I don't know how extensive their bin is but its worth a call.

Also Italiancarparts.com may have what you need.

Thank you my friend!

Thanks, I'll give them another call. Tried yesterday and they were closed for the holidays. I'm reading such mixed information and this thread seems to clear so much of it up. One guy told me I would need tons of specialty tools. Then I see here that people did it with basic tools and some improvisation. Another told me if they rebuild the engine, it would cost $60,000. Another told me $20,000. I said, "I don't want someone to build it... I want to build it, where can I get the parts?" and everyone insists that it's impossible. Frustrating.

 

I appreciate all the DIY advice and motivation to do their own work. As far as I'm concerned, engines are engines. Sure, maybe I need to improvise and make a few tools, big whoop. Doesn't scare me. I just want to know where to get the parts so I can start my journey haha.

 

Thanks again Earlycat.

 

Anytime, glad to help. I have bought parts from GT parts as well. Some of the parts are very expensive compared to other brands. Vintage Lamborghini is not cheap. However most of the cost involved is in labor.

Good info here. I was posting before the car went off and I am not sure if I updated things. Here are pictures of what was causing my gurgling grinding and banging sound. The water pump was done incorrectly and was leaking water into the block. The drain hole was plugged with debris. The bearing were crazy rusted and ball bearings were missing. The cams were "rattling" around and jumping as they hit the valve stems.

Evans put in "drop forged high performance pistons" that I believe he has made just for the Jalpa. He told me they are far superior to the factory pistons and the whole set + rings costs less than what the Lamborghini factory rings alone cost.