Michael Moore's Sicko

Every doctor I KNOW has said they will quit the profession if it goes through (or more precisely will go into PLASTIC SURGERY and the such as they can still make the kind of money they want to...)

 

 

So how will we provide service FOR EVERYBODY (when we cant with the number of doctors we have now) if WE LOSE MANY DOCTORS???? How do you ATTRACT the BRIGHTEST minds to go into medicine if theyre not going to GET PAID BACK???

 

 

Agreed again. Many doctors have great lifestyles, but few of them are truly wealthy.

 

If you took away the great lifestyle then like RD says, what's the incentive to do 4 years of medical school after college and 3-9 years after that of poorly paid training. The whole while having horrible hours and being held to very high standards of production etc.

 

Additionally the whole plastic surgery thing is very questionable. It's not magical that they all make millions of dollars. Some do, but those are the established ones in great markets who at one time had to go through hard knocks doing crap for others till they get their chance. If a plastic cosmetic surgeon set up shop in Beverly hills today he'd make no money. It's very cutthroat and the established guys/women would run him/her out of town.

Agreed again. Many doctors have great lifestyles, but few of them are truly wealthy.

 

If you took away the great lifestyle then like RD says, what's the incentive to do 4 years of medical school after college and 3-9 years after that of poorly paid training. The whole while having horrible hours and being held to very high standards of production etc.

 

Additionally the whole plastic surgery thing is very questionable. It's not magical that they all make millions of dollars. Some do, but those are the established ones in great markets who at one time had to go through hard knocks doing crap for others till they get their chance. If a plastic cosmetic surgeon set up shop in Beverly hills today he'd make no money. It's very cutthroat and the established guys/women would run him/her out of town.

 

I would love to get your perspective on this as well. In the Documentary, the doctor they interview under the Government Healthcare that they have in the UK makes approximately $200,000 US dollars per year, has a full government pension, and government benefits. I assume that also puts the legal liability that plagues US doctors on the Government as well. If I was a doctor making $400,000 a year in the US, I would take a 50% paycut for the other benefits. They also are incentivized on how many people that they give healthier lives to. For instance-How many people they get to quit smoking, how many people they get to stop drinking, etc. He said depending on how hard you work at that, you can make MUCH more.

They also are incentivized on how many people that they give healthier lives to. For instance-How many people they get to quit smoking, how many people they get to stop drinking, etc. He said depending on how hard you work at that, you can make MUCH more.

 

 

OK.... Now ask yourself.... How does a doctor MAKE A PATIENT do ANYTHING?

 

 

Michael Moore knows the BIG MAC is BAD for him....

 

 

My granddad knew the cigarette was BAD for him....

 

 

The drunk KNOWS the booze is BAD for him...

 

 

I knew all that long before I met YOU the DOCTOR.... My wife cant get me to stop the above.... But YOU, some jackass in a white coat I barely know is going to have success? GET BENT!

 

Now.... Other than jumping out from behind a bush to punch me in the jaw the next time I go through the drive through, WHAT EXACTLY does St Michael suggest that the all powerful healers of the NHS can do?

 

 

What makes government-run healthcare in the United States an insane idea right now is that even if other countries could do it well, we in the U.S. have a bad record of government health programs not working.

 

Medicare and Medicaid both are trillions in deficit and have huge amounts of fraud and waste. Both are single-payer, government-run, health insurance companies.

 

Plus the general history of all government programs is that they end up costing far more than initially projected.

 

Or we could look at Massachusettes universal care system, which skyrocketed in cost as well. California wanted to create such a system, but axed it because it would have flat-out bankrupted the state.

 

If we look at the Canadian system, it functions by dividing up management of the system among the provinces. So theoretically, such a system in the U.S. would be done by dividing it up among the 50 states. Which as we have seen, probably won't work. In addition to Massachusettes, Tennessee also tried a government health program and has had to kick around 100,000 people off of it due to the costs skyrocketing.

 

Different countries do it in different ways, in Britain the whole thing is government-owned and run, although private-sector healthcare is available.

 

In Canada they outlawed private care, I think they might be allowing it again, I'm not sure, however their system is nationalized health insurance with private sector doctors and hospitals.

 

The proponents of the Canadian system say that it cuts costs by having one government health insurance service as opposed to a bunch of different health insurance companies (not sayin I agree with this).

 

Switzerland has a combo of private and public care, but they are a very small country and also do not have to maintain any large defense.

 

And yes Roman hit the nail on the head, the problem with government control of healthcare is it gives them control over society, because then they can justify taxes on fast food, sodas, laws on this and that, because "it's going to increase healthcare costs." It allows control of society.

 

The other thing to keep in mind about the European nations is that they are social democracies. Social democracies require very high taxes to pay for these social services. This leads to a more hamstrung economy. For example, VAT taxes. The EU nations on average have much higher national debts in proportion to their economies too compared with America.

 

They do not have any real military capability either. If the EU had to perform the role of the United States militarily in the world, they likely never would have had the money to pour into their social service systems. They essentially piggy-back off of the U.S. in this sense.

 

Not saying this is "wrong" at all, but I mean if the U.S. tries to create a Euro-style social democracy, we will hamstring our economic productivity and gut our defense capability.

 

Even the UK now I don't think could pull off the Falklands again right now.

Wheels, I shit you not, one more post out of you thats more than two paragraphs and your out for 30 days. Enough!

Wheels, I shit you not, one more post out of you thats more than two paragraphs and your out for 30 days. Enough!

 

Okay okay!! I didn't realize, I just get carried away sometimes on these topics.

Okay okay!! I didn't realize, I just get carried away sometimes on these topics.

You should avoid this particular topic like the plague.....

Excellent Facts RD. Additionally our life expectancy is lowered by the way we report Neonatal deaths. Other countries don't report a live birth until the second day and our ability to NICU an infant has it at 29 weeks. Other's consider 29 weeks too young for survivability. These numbers generated by this also bring down our life expectancy quite a bit along with RD's facts.

 

 

One of my buddies from law school was 28 Wks I think... He turned out to be a gold gloves boxer, brilliant lawyer, and the only side effect was deafness in one ear and a slight speech impediment....

 

 

 

You should avoid this particular topic like the plague.....

 

I know I know...I am just a political and policy junkie, so threads like this are like crack to me, I always want to contribute.

 

I will make sure to keep posts much more minimalist (or ask permission for big posts if ever wanting to write one).

One of my buddies from law school was 28 Wks I think... He turned out to be a gold gloves boxer, brilliant lawyer, and the only side effect was deafness in one ear and a slight speech impediment....

 

Doesn't sound like a guy to pick a fight with

OK.... Now ask yourself.... How does a doctor MAKE A PATIENT do ANYTHING?

 

 

Michael Moore knows the BIG MAC is BAD for him....

 

 

My granddad knew the cigarette was BAD for him....

 

 

The drunk KNOWS the booze is BAD for him...

 

 

I knew all that long before I met YOU the DOCTOR.... My wife cant get me to stop the above.... But YOU, some jackass in a white coat I barely know is going to have success? GET BENT!

 

Now.... Other than jumping out from behind a bush to punch me in the jaw the next time I go through the drive through, WHAT EXACTLY does St Michael suggest that the all powerful healers of the NHS can do?

 

correct. In the movie, if a person that wants to quit smoking goes to the doctor, and he prescribes medication, and the guy quits, they give the doctor more money.

 

Wheels, I shit you not, one more post out of you thats more than two paragraphs and your out for 30 days. Enough!

 

exactly my thoughts, I scrolled down without reading.

 

I am not a healthcare expert but I can share some facts from my wife's experiences with the healthcare system in Australia V Healthcare system in Japan ( my wife is Japanese)

She had some stomach issues, lots of pain and discomfort, many sleepless nights, the doctors in Australia took well over 12 months to do all the tests and figure out what was wrong with her, they took over 12 months because the appointments for tests were 3 to 4 months apart. They gave her some treatment for her condition or what they thought her condition was, the treatment didn't quite work for her.

I decided to fly her to Japan for treatment, she walked in and free of charge by the end of the day she had all the tests done and the result, all done under one roof, the prescribed treatment worked and after almost two years my wife got her health back.

I am quite sure that most countries have issues with their health system but some manage to cover it up better than the others!

exactly my thoughts, I scrolled down without reading.

 

It's becoming an instinct whenever I see his posts...

 

Wheels, I shit you not, one more post out of you thats more than two paragraphs and your out for 30 days. Enough!

 

Wheels,

 

you should go to local colleges, and get paid for writing dissertations. Put your love of the keyboard to use!

 

Wheels,

 

you should go to local colleges, and get paid for writing dissertations. Put your love of the keyboard to use!

 

 

Dude, masturbate more often, use the internet for what its meant for, PORN!

One of my buddies from law school was 28 Wks I think... He turned out to be a gold gloves boxer, brilliant lawyer, and the only side effect was deafness in one ear and a slight speech impediment....

 

 

From being a preemie or boxing?

Every doctor I KNOW has said they will quit the profession if it goes through (or more precisely will go into PLASTIC SURGERY and the such as they can still make the kind of money they want to...)

 

 

So how will we provide service FOR EVERYBODY (when we cant with the number of doctors we have now) if WE LOSE MANY DOCTORS???? How do you ATTRACT the BRIGHTEST minds to go into medicine if theyre not going to GET PAID BACK???

 

 

The correct answer is...you don't. It will go further downhill than it already is.

What makes government-run healthcare in the United States an insane idea right now is that even if other countries could do it well, we in the U.S. have a bad record of government health programs not working.

 

Medicare and Medicaid both are trillions in deficit and have huge amounts of fraud and waste. Both are single-payer, government-run, health insurance companies.

 

Plus the general history of all government programs is that they end up costing far more than initially projected.

 

Or we could look at Massachusettes universal care system, which skyrocketed in cost as well. California wanted to create such a system, but axed it because it would have flat-out bankrupted the state.

 

If we look at the Canadian system, it functions by dividing up management of the system among the provinces. So theoretically, such a system in the U.S. would be done by dividing it up among the 50 states. Which as we have seen, probably won't work. In addition to Massachusettes, Tennessee also tried a government health program and has had to kick around 100,000 people off of it due to the costs skyrocketing.

 

Different countries do it in different ways, in Britain the whole thing is government-owned and run, although private-sector healthcare is available.

 

In Canada they outlawed private care, I think they might be allowing it again, I'm not sure, however their system is nationalized health insurance with private sector doctors and hospitals.

 

The proponents of the Canadian system say that it cuts costs by having one government health insurance service as opposed to a bunch of different health insurance companies (not sayin I agree with this).

 

Switzerland has a combo of private and public care, but they are a very small country and also do not have to maintain any large defense.

 

And yes Roman hit the nail on the head, the problem with government control of healthcare is it gives them control over society, because then they can justify taxes on fast food, sodas, laws on this and that, because "it's going to increase healthcare costs." It allows control of society.

 

The other thing to keep in mind about the European nations is that they are social democracies. Social democracies require very high taxes to pay for these social services. This leads to a more hamstrung economy. For example, VAT taxes. The EU nations on average have much higher national debts in proportion to their economies too compared with America.

 

They do not have any real military capability either. If the EU had to perform the role of the United States militarily in the world, they likely never would have had the money to pour into their social service systems. They essentially piggy-back off of the U.S. in this sense.

 

Not saying this is "wrong" at all, but I mean if the U.S. tries to create a Euro-style social democracy, we will hamstring our economic productivity and gut our defense capability.

 

Even the UK now I don't think could pull off the Falklands again right now.

 

 

 

Holy fcuk. I thought we had this lesson before:

 

Wall of text = bad

 

Succinct comments = good

 

Print that shit out and tape it over your monitor.

I would love to get your perspective on this as well. In the Documentary, the doctor they interview under the Government Healthcare that they have in the UK makes approximately $200,000 US dollars per year, has a full government pension, and government benefits. I assume that also puts the legal liability that plagues US doctors on the Government as well. If I was a doctor making $400,000 a year in the US, I would take a 50% paycut for the other benefits. They also are incentivized on how many people that they give healthier lives to. For instance-How many people they get to quit smoking, how many people they get to stop drinking, etc. He said depending on how hard you work at that, you can make MUCH more.

 

This exists in the US. Corporations like Kaiser Permanente do all the things you describe. Some docs I know work for them and LOVE it.

 

I'd rather bust my hump, be my own boss, make my own decisions for the higher sum than the lesser. Of course I'm young and don't mind hard work. That may change when in 10-20 years.

It's becoming an instinct whenever I see his posts...

 

Maybe I should change my name to "WordsRCool" :eusa_think:

 

Seriously, I will work to write short posts.

This exists in the US. Corporations like Kaiser Permanente do all the things you describe. Some docs I know work for them and LOVE it.

 

I'd rather bust my hump, be my own boss, make my own decisions for the higher sum than the lesser. Of course I'm young and don't mind hard work. That may change when in 10-20 years.

 

yea but if I'm not mistaken, over there they sue the government. Here they sue you.

 

Also according to the movie, Kaiser Permanente is the devil

It's becoming an instinct whenever I see his posts...

 

Props to him, for someone that doesn't know how to defrost a fridge he knows an awful lot about healthcare

Maybe I should change my name to "WordsRCool"

 

Seriously, I will work to write short posts.

 

 

No need to change your name. I left you a reminder in your member title.

Props to him, for someone that doesn't know how to defrost a fridge he knows an awful lot about healthcare

Hahahahahaha

US members please somebody answer this "what if ?" for me:

 

Low income earner, make rent $, food $ no savings, no health insurance and you get sick, need medical assistance, surgery, hospitalization and medication.

What happens next?

 

What if the kids of the above mentioned need all of the above? What happens with them?