Are after market wheels the cause of accidents in Murcs?

Maybe this is a dumb question, but how come we dont hear aobut as many problems with the later Porsche turbos. Is it because their AWD system is different then the lambos? It seems more people change the rims on the turbos and you dont hear about stories like this.....

I don't pay much attention to Porsche so it could be happening and it still wouldn't be on my radar. This originally came up as a topic of discussion between Lamborghini owners before I started the thread, none of whom also own a Porsche.

Fair enough. I was just curious because a lot of the argument came down to the wheels not being up to snuff on high speed cars, or there not being enough sidewalls. Figured the 911 Turbos are high performance AWD cars so I thought it would be relevant. Either way...carry on.

It could be happening, I've not been paying attention to other brands.

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/whee...he-awd-tts.html. You can see that taller tires for Porsche awd systems could pose similar problems

Hahaha xD Thanx!

 

Good then, I heard you had an open vacation here for new clown?

 

Serously, it is mr bean's avatar but I stole it.

 

The "surprised" look gets me all the time

Some great observations on this thread..

 

I had a 99 NSX that the previous owner put on a plus 1 set of HRE's. The rears were 285 30 18's if I remember correctly. They were the correct diameters and lighter than stock etc. The rims were at least 10 or 11 inches wide.

 

Both rear rims failed by cracking on the inner lip edge at different times probably from hitting potholes. Fortunately both times it happened I found out by having flats in my garage when the car sat over night, not while driving. I was always wondered if I had had flat/rapid deflation due to rim failure while driving and wrapped it round a lamp post with all the accident damage would anybody have been able to determine the cause of the accident or would even look at the rims as a potential problem or just put it down to driver error....

 

Any time I have put aftermarket wheels on vehicles, I have had issues with bent rims. I don't bother anymore.

 

I do agree seat time is critical, takes a while to learn a car regardless of your overall experience level.

Maybe this is a dumb question, but how come we dont hear aobut as many problems with the later Porsche turbos. Is it because their AWD system is different then the lambos? It seems more people change the rims on the turbos and you dont hear about stories like this.....

 

 

Porsches have ESP, Murcielago has only traction control.

 

ESP will give you big help when you are in troubles.....

Some great observations on this thread..

 

I had a 99 NSX that the previous owner put on a plus 1 set of HRE's. The rears were 285 30 18's if I remember correctly. They were the correct diameters and lighter than stock etc. The rims were at least 10 or 11 inches wide.

 

Both rear rims failed by cracking on the inner lip edge at different times probably from hitting potholes. Fortunately both times it happened I found out by having flats in my garage when the car sat over night, not while driving. I was always wondered if I had had flat/rapid deflation due to rim failure while driving and wrapped it round a lamp post with all the accident damage would anybody have been able to determine the cause of the accident or would even look at the rims as a potential problem or just put it down to driver error....

 

Any time I have put aftermarket wheels on vehicles, I have had issues with bent rims. I don't bother anymore.

 

I do agree seat time is critical, takes a while to learn a car regardless of your overall experience level.

 

Was the car lowered? And was the tire pressure maintained at the tire manufacturer's recommended psi? Those all come into play when determining why your wheel failed. Even stock wheels will bend in certain situations. The key issue though is where aftermarket wheel companies in an effort to make their wheels light usually sacrifice some of that rigity. The reason why the HRE lip sections cracked probably was because rim sections on many 3 piece wheels are spun and heat treated. The center is a full forged piece that is stronger. Spun rims are of a different aluminum grade than the 6061 aluminum used on the centers and are more likely to fail because of this. Thus, when I see forged rims advertised as super light, unless I know the materials, the testing, and load rating that the wheel can carry, I would refrain from purchsing it. The only reason that forged wheels are lighter is because with the material, less is needed to maintain the same rigity a cast wheel would. But this in no way reflects that it is overall stronger because where you go lighter, the wheels get weaker. Thats just a balance that is struck and would vary depending on manufacturers. Also, if there is any lowering the cambers would be slighlty negative and would mean that the inner rim section is loaded more than other parts of the wheel... And if your tires are underinflated, the load that normally would be taken up by the tire is now transfered more to the wheel, thus causing a rim failure. It is always a good idea to maintain the tire pressure that the tire manufacturer recommends to support the weight of the vehicle. That way, the wheel can support its intended weight and the tire can support its intended weight. If its lowered and tire pressure is not maintained correctly, then it was a matter of time that the rim would fail....

Was the car lowered? And was the tire pressure maintained at the tire manufacturer's recommended psi? Those all come into play when determining why your wheel failed. Even stock wheels will bend in certain situations. The key issue though is where aftermarket wheel companies in an effort to make their wheels light usually sacrifice some of that rigity. The reason why the HRE lip sections cracked probably was because rim sections on many 3 piece wheels are spun and heat treated. The center is a full forged piece that is stronger. Spun rims are of a different aluminum grade than the 6061 aluminum used on the centers and are more likely to fail because of this. Thus, when I see forged rims advertised as super light, unless I know the materials, the testing, and load rating that the wheel can carry, I would refrain from purchsing it. The only reason that forged wheels are lighter is because with the material, less is needed to maintain the same rigity a cast wheel would. But this in no way reflects that it is overall stronger because where you go lighter, the wheels get weaker. Thats just a balance that is struck and would vary depending on manufacturers. Also, if there is any lowering the cambers would be slighlty negative and would mean that the inner rim section is loaded more than other parts of the wheel... And if your tires are underinflated, the load that normally would be taken up by the tire is now transfered more to the wheel, thus causing a rim failure. It is always a good idea to maintain the tire pressure that the tire manufacturer recommends to support the weight of the vehicle. That way, the wheel can support its intended weight and the tire can support its intended weight. If its lowered and tire pressure is not maintained correctly, then it was a matter of time that the rim would fail....

 

 

I check my tires pressures every three or four weeks. The car was not lowered. The NSX was very sensitive to pressure changes. One thing that is unique to the NSX, especially the earlier ones were the factory rear camber settings which caused significant premature wear on the inside edges of the rear tires....maybe this makes the inside lip of the rims more prone to be damaged.

I check my tires pressures every three or four weeks. The car was not lowered. The NSX was very sensitive to pressure changes. One thing that is unique to the NSX, especially the earlier ones were the factory rear camber settings which caused significant premature wear on the inside edges of the rear tires....maybe this makes the inside lip of the rims more prone to be damaged.

Yes. that is probably why. If your vehicle factory rear camber was slightly negative, and tires were wearing on the inside, it means that more pressure and contact is focused there. Then by increasing width to the rears, it only highlights the problem even further. So lets say your size is 285 width, the actual main contact area where all the pressure and weight is focused in the inner half of that sectional width.

I check my tires pressures every three or four weeks. The car was not lowered. The NSX was very sensitive to pressure changes. One thing that is unique to the NSX, especially the earlier ones were the factory rear camber settings which caused significant premature wear on the inside edges of the rear tires....maybe this makes the inside lip of the rims more prone to be damaged.

Yes. that is probably why. If your vehicle factory rear camber was slightly negative, and tires were wearing on the inside, it means that more pressure and contact is focused there. Then by increasing width to the rears, it only highlights the problem even further. So lets say your size is 285 width, the actual main contact area where all the pressure and weight is focused in the inner half of that sectional width.

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Dont hold back....

Fast reply. I have to say that its almost always due to driver's error. I recall some time back a lambo driver going all out on the web to prove he was not at fault when his murc "suddenly" veered & crashed.

I've had a similar experiences several times over. One of which was when I was at low cruising speed (straight road) with just one hand on the steering wheel when one of the front wheel ran over the slightest of uneven groove on the road. Baam! Both the front wheels just instantly about left turn locked, I recall being able to regain grip on the steering wheel after the fronts have already done what it did (about a few nano seconds?) ...

Apart from sudden jerk & veering off the lane by a bit, there was no obstacles around. I eased off the accelerator and regained control and just as quickly due to low speed. I think it would have been a different story if if I was at higher speed. But than again, if I was going at higher speed, my senses would be at higher alert and secondly, I would have had both my hands on the steering wheel, with a firmer grip.

 

Now that it has happened to me several times over the many years I have been driving, I have sort of grown to react without much thought,(but still break out in cold sweat thereafter). That is, immediately upon the loss of control, I let off the accelerator, counter steer, brake and than accelerate back to lane, all at appropriate timing. Hope my experience makes aware how important it is to drive with both hands on the steering wheel, and that experience and luck also plays a major part when driving.

Fast reply. I have to say that its almost always due to driver's error. I recall some time back a lambo driver going all out on the web to prove he was not at fault when his murc "suddenly" veered & crashed.

I've had a similar experiences several times over. One of which was when I was at low cruising speed (straight road) with just one hand on the steering wheel when one of the front wheel ran over the slightest of uneven groove on the road. Baam! Both the front wheels just instantly about left turn locked, I recall being able to regain grip on the steering wheel after the fronts have already done what it did (about a few nano seconds?) ...

Apart from sudden jerk & veering off the lane by a bit, there was no obstacles around. I eased off the accelerator and regained control and just as quickly due to low speed. I think it would have been a different story if if I was at higher speed. But than again, if I was going at higher speed, my senses would be at higher alert and secondly, I would have had both my hands on the steering wheel, with a firmer grip.

 

Now that it has happened to me several times over the many years I have been driving, I have sort of grown to react without much thought,(but still break out in cold sweat thereafter). That is, immediately upon the loss of control, I let off the accelerator, counter steer, brake and than accelerate back to lane, all at appropriate timing. Hope my experience makes aware how important it is to drive with both hands on the steering wheel, and that experience and luck also plays a major part when driving.

 

I've had this as well, not going too fast but under medium acceleration, road looked dead flat & straight but i think heavy lorries going along it all changing lanes at roughly the same point had put almost invisible trenches in the road. I was dragged out of my lane and half way across another, needless to say it scared me alot and had i going faster it definately would have sent me off the road. It caught me out even more because i was not expecting it as i all looked fine, i think may potentially how some of these things happen, if i had been concentrating 100% it wouldn't have been anywhere near so bad.