Idea for new mobile app

I have an idea for a new app for iPhone, Android, iPad, etc. It'd be social networking related.

 

First off, how do you protect yourself? Patent the idea? I wouldn't want to go to a mobile development firm and have them take the idea while trying to work with me on development. Do you have the firm and anyone you're working with sign NDA's?

 

This is my first experience in this space. Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thanks!

Contact a patent attorney. They can check to see if your idea is already out there and protect it if it isn't.

That's a very good question, I am curious to hear the answer since we are developing a web app at the moment, the patent attorney couldn't give me a straight answer or should I say an answer that I was happy with.

A friend at a venture firm thinks i'm wasting my time with patents. I disagree. He tells me they can change my idea so slightly that it's not worth it. He says to just keep moving forward to do it. Doesn't make sense to me.

Check this site out...it's great for any start up's

 

 

http://sprouter.com/

start with this http://www.google.com/patents

 

after 3 of my ideas, and countless hours of searching, i found out that all 3 had been done to an extent, not exactly the same way i'd do it, however my idea was not novel enough to warrant a patent, therefore the business model wouldn't work. Take your time and search before wasting lots of time on patent lawyers. A patent search will cost 1200-1500$

OK... A little background. Patents protect IDEAS. Copyright protect EXPRESSIONS of ideas. (I have an idea for a blender that uses lasers to cut the food- PATENT. I have a completed, written BOOK (not an IDEA for a book)- COPYRIGHT)

 

 

Getting a Patent on software can be a problem... Its pretty expensive, and you cant patent everything, especially when it comes to creative things like software.... You cant for example get a patent that says "A computer software package that allows people to use a computer as a typewriter." It has to be pretty specific, and things like algorithms and formulas are NOT patentable.

 

The more traditional route for software development is to get a Copyright, however it only protects the written works (i.e. this post Im writing is protected by copyright), and underlying code of the software. The problem of course is one can create an entirely DIFFERENT code, and create the same basic computer program (at least as far as the end user is concerned) and do an end around YOU. (which is why Bill Gates was able to Rip Off the Macintosh Operating System, and Call it "Windows").

 

IDEAS are pretty worthless.... Everybody has IDEAS for things.... Its the ability to MAKE THEM INTO SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE BUY that is the real valuable skill. If you dont have the computer skills to CREATE a software application from your idea, then what I would do is find somebody who DOES, make an agreement with them to share the profits and go from there.

What if I have an idea for improving something in Windows - how do i find the person within MS who would talk to me and write me a check?

My company develops software and the general consensus is that you can't patent software. You can copyright software, but that is pretty worthless. Here is why.

 

Software can be written in any number of ways. If I looked at your software, I could reproduce it without ever seeing a line of your code. Just seeing how the idea works is enough. So I technically wouldn't be copying your code. If you compared the two implementations, they would be very different. They could even be in different languages.

 

We've been copied. We've even had a company in India disguise themselves with a [email protected] email to try to get info on our software development. Does it bother me? Not at all. Like anything else, there is a lot more to writing an app than the app itself. There is the marketing, usability, etc. The overall execution of the idea is what really counts. The creativity that goes behind getting your software noticed is what counts. I'd even say go into the venture knowing that you will be copied, and plan on that from day one. This way, you'll always be focusing on keeping your app one step ahead of the game.

 

And about hiring contractors to build your software...just get them to sign an NDA. Our IP lawyer wants customers to sign an NDA before demoing our software. But at least with an NDA, you can spell it out that they can't take what you discuss and make a buck off it without you. But I don't even see that as being fool proof.

 

My advice is to find a developer that you can trust. Better yet, find someone through a referral. While most software developers are content with simply building for their boss, there are those that have the drive and determination to take over.

 

 

fcuk all this I want to know about the laser beam blender.

Moto: PM sent.

 

Typically software patents encompass something else besides code. What this means is that you apply for a patent on a device which uses software to accomplish something or you apply for a patent on a method which incorporates software to accomplish something. Take, for example, Roman's revolutionary LaserBlend blender which uses software to calculate the intensity of lasers. You could apply for a patent on a blender which uses software to vary the intensity of lasers which act as cutting blades. Or you could apply for a method of cutting food which involved the use of software to vary the intensity of lasers.

 

In essence, you would not be applying for a patent on the app itself, but you would likely be applying for a patent on a method of accomplishing something by way of particular steps.

 

Rawr: There is really no distinctions on whether something is an improvement or a brand new thing. If the only kinds of pencils that existed were those without erasers and one day you came up with a pencil with an eraser, you could apply for a patent. Also, this allows for interesting circumstances where a patent holder of a particular device or method may be prohibited from practicing a certain instance of his own patented invention.

Moto: PM sent.

 

Typically software patents encompass something else besides code. What this means is that you apply for a patent on a device which uses software to accomplish something or you apply for a patent on a method which incorporates software to accomplish something. Take, for example, Roman's revolutionary LaserBlend blender which uses software to calculate the intensity of lasers. You could apply for a patent on a blender which uses software to vary the intensity of lasers which act as cutting blades. Or you could apply for a method of cutting food which involved the use of software to vary the intensity of lasers.

 

In essence, you would not be applying for a patent on the app itself, but you would likely be applying for a patent on a method of accomplishing something by way of particular steps.

 

Rawr: There is really no distinctions on whether something is an improvement or a brand new thing. If the only kinds of pencils that existed were those without erasers and one day you came up with a pencil with an eraser, you could apply for a patent. Also, this allows for interesting circumstances where a patent holder of a particular device or method may be prohibited from practicing a certain instance of his own patented invention.

 

 

Thank you, let me give you an idea so may make more sense. For example, two finger scrolling. Someone came up with that. And they probably don't hold patent, guy just got paid by microsoft as an employee, right? But what if an outsider thought of it and approached MS. Would that be even possible to patent something like this? I am more thinking along the lines of "ok this will make people love your system more, now cut me a check for the idea and go implement it" - and it would be easy to implement, so the person with the idea doesn't even have to show them how to do it. Does this make sense?

Moto: PM sent.

 

Typically software patents encompass something else besides code. What this means is that you apply for a patent on a device which uses software to accomplish something or you apply for a patent on a method which incorporates software to accomplish something. Take, for example, Roman's revolutionary LaserBlend blender which uses software to calculate the intensity of lasers. You could apply for a patent on a blender which uses software to vary the intensity of lasers which act as cutting blades. Or you could apply for a method of cutting food which involved the use of software to vary the intensity of lasers.

 

In essence, you would not be applying for a patent on the app itself, but you would likely be applying for a patent on a method of accomplishing something by way of particular steps.

 

I think what you are describing is known as an "Innovative Copyright" at least that's how our patent attorney calls it, certainly not as strong as a patent, you can't apply for a patent on a blender because the blender exists, the only thing you are doing is being innovative by improving the way it functions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, unfortunately protecting software can be very difficult. As above, the written code can be copyrighted, any very specific innovations can be patented, but the general purpose of the software - not much you can do to protect that I'm afraid.

 

You really just need to ensure you continue to enhance & improve your product to maintain it as the best / most alluring option to your target consumers. Whether you do this by market saturation (think Microsoft), brand strength and effectiveness for a niche (Oracle), or pure emotional marketing (Apple) - or a dozen other options - doesn't really matter.

Thank you, let me give you an idea so may make more sense. For example, two finger scrolling. Someone came up with that. And they probably don't hold patent, guy just got paid by microsoft as an employee, right? But what if an outsider thought of it and approached MS. Would that be even possible to patent something like this? I am more thinking along the lines of "ok this will make people love your system more, now cut me a check for the idea and go implement it" - and it would be easy to implement, so the person with the idea doesn't even have to show them how to do it. Does this make sense?

 

Rawr as far as I understood based on what was explained to me, you can patent anything that was never done before providing you can write the literature and the tech for it in which you have to explain how it will work etc, writing the literature is key because the words you use will be used as protection when others will attempt to replicate/copy/challenge it, the thing is if someone else can get to the same result by changing your design by 10% or more your patent will not protect you.

 

You have to write a watertight tech report and have an awesome patent attorney to write the rest, not an easy or cheap task by any means, usually inventors/developers aren't business savvy or have the financial ability to support their crazy ideas, they end up in bed with sharks and in the end very few of them will benefit financially from the whole deal.

 

I recently had to read few patents after my attorney did searches for similar patents, in order to figure out if our item will be different, how different etc.

 

It was a MAJOR PITA a single word in a 3000 word document would make or break you, I think I am giving up on it, the item which I am trying to patent is part of a larger system, if someone just copies the item itself will have to utilize it in a similar manner which I think it will be quite hard in particular if we achieve brand recognition first.

 

 

 

 

Rawr as far as I understood based on what was explained to me, you can patent anything that was never done before providing you can write the literature and the tech for it in which you have to explain how it will work etc, writing the literature is key because the words you use will be used as protection when others will attempt to replicate/copy/challenge it, the thing is if someone else can get to the same result by changing your design by 10% or more your patent will not protect you.

 

You have to write a watertight tech report and have an awesome patent attorney to write the rest, not an easy or cheap task by any means, usually inventors/developers aren't business savvy or have the financial ability to support their crazy ideas, they end up in bed with sharks and in the end very few of them will benefit financially from the whole deal.

 

I recently had to read few patents after my attorney did searches for similar patents, in order to figure out if our item will be different, how different etc.

 

It was a MAJOR PITA a single word in a 3000 word document would make or break you, I think I am giving up on it, the item which I am trying to patent is part of a larger system, if someone just copies the item itself will have to utilize it in a similar manner which I think it will be quite hard in particular if we achieve brand recognition first.

 

 

Thanks bud, sorry to hear about your challenges. You are exactly right about inventors not being business savy at times - in my extended family there were 2 very good inventors who made great money, and when the business minded one died the other crashed and burnt completely.

Thanks bud, sorry to hear about your challenges. You are exactly right about inventors not being business savy at times - in my extended family there were 2 very good inventors who made great money, and when the business minded one died the other crashed and burnt completely.

 

I have a "better" story happened to a very good friend of mine.

I will not go into details out of respect for my friend the jest of it is he lost his house his "business partner" made $20 mil out of the deal.

 

fcuk all this I want to know about the laser beam blender.

 

 

Great thread. Today I was actually making some phone calls to a very old friend of mine who works on her own app development and has done some remarkable things. As part of the business that I'm currently working on I will require a very complicated and complex app down the line and I was going to bring her into the project. Luckily for me I trust this person 100% but I was still going to head down the copyright and ND road as its always best to do that.

 

I've even got a separate app that I was going to talk to her about that is in its bare bones essentially copying an app that exists already in 50+ different variations. Now, I'm not trying to be a bad guy and steal ideas, its just a very common app. Where I think I will be more successful is in the creativity of the app which shouldn't touch on any copyrights since I have yet to see my version of the app appear anywhere. From what I've been able to find through exploration of different versions its essentially like writing a book in the same genre. Who knows though, I could be wrong, but thats why I'm consulting my app developer.

Thank you, let me give you an idea so may make more sense. For example, two finger scrolling. Someone came up with that. And they probably don't hold patent, guy just got paid by microsoft as an employee, right? But what if an outsider thought of it and approached MS. Would that be even possible to patent something like this? I am more thinking along the lines of "ok this will make people love your system more, now cut me a check for the idea and go implement it" - and it would be easy to implement, so the person with the idea doesn't even have to show them how to do it. Does this make sense?

 

There are a number of requirement that one must meet in order to obtain a patent. The three general ones are that (1) you must have useful subject matter; (2) the invention is novel; and (3) invention is non-obvious. In addition to that, your application/patent disclosure must be enabling. This means that someone who reads your patent must be able to replicate the invention without undue experimentation. So getting to your example. If you wanted to patent the ability to zoom on a screen such as that of a smartphone, you would either claim a device having that capability, or you would claim a method for allowing a user to zoom in on an image. However, in both cases, you need to be able to describe you idea with sufficient detail to let someone make this thing. So if all you can say is that you have an idea where you zoom in with the use of two fingers, that's probably not enough. This is a public policy argument. The government is giving you an exclusive right which lets you keep other from making/selling/offering for sale some kind of an invention for a period of time. In exchange for this monopoly, you should be able to disclose your invention with enough detail so that others can benefit from it after the patent expires.

 

Now getting a little deeper into your example. Lets say it's 1987 and MS comes out with a new cellphone call iGates. They obtain patent protection on it. But, it never occurs to them to implement this two-finger zooming capability. You decide to spend a few weekends tinkering with the phone. You soon realize that with some ingenious modifications you can get the pictures to zoom by using two fingers. At this point you can file for a patent application. Keep in mind that you would not be applying for a cellphone, you would be applying for a cellphone having the ability to zoom by using two fingers (something that's new and non-obvious). If your application is granted, you can then prevent MS from making iGates phones with the zoom feature. Now this does not mean you get to make phones because MS still has a patent on the phone.

 

I know it's a little difficult to conceptualize this, but remember that a patent doesn't give you the right to make anything. A patent is a right to exclude others from making/selling/offering for sale/importing. This means that while MS can prevent you making the iGates phone, similarly you can prevent them from doing something also.

 

I think what you are describing is known as an "Innovative Copyright" at least that's how our patent attorney calls it, certainly not as strong as a patent, you can't apply for a patent on a blender because the blender exists, the only thing you are doing is being innovative by improving the way it functions.

 

With regard to OP's post, my recommendation would be a business method patent. Business method patents describe and claim certain steps of running a business. So long as his app allows for a new and non-obvious way of accomplishing a business related task, it would be proper subject matter for an application. Now whether is really is new and non-obvious is a whole other question which requires a lot more evaluation.

 

Rawr as far as I understood based on what was explained to me, you can patent anything that was never done before providing you can write the literature and the tech for it in which you have to explain how it will work etc, writing the literature is key because the words you use will be used as protection when others will attempt to replicate/copy/challenge it, the thing is if someone else can get to the same result by changing your design by 10% or more your patent will not protect you.

 

You have to write a watertight tech report and have an awesome patent attorney to write the rest, not an easy or cheap task by any means, usually inventors/developers aren't business savvy or have the financial ability to support their crazy ideas, they end up in bed with sharks and in the end very few of them will benefit financially from the whole deal.

 

I recently had to read few patents after my attorney did searches for similar patents, in order to figure out if our item will be different, how different etc.

 

It was a MAJOR PITA a single word in a 3000 word document would make or break you, I think I am giving up on it, the item which I am trying to patent is part of a larger system, if someone just copies the item itself will have to utilize it in a similar manner which I think it will be quite hard in particular if we achieve brand recognition first.

 

There is no bright line rule that one must come within 10% to infringe. What you are referring to is called the doctrine of equivalents and it basically allows a court to find you guilty of infringement even though your device does not come within the literal scope of the invention. You are correct in saying that the disclosure has to be drafted very carefully. Typically you want to get as broad of protection as possible and this is where a knowledgeable patent attorney comes in. I've heard this question from many of our client where say they "well what if someone changes this amount by X grams, or what if they use material X while I use material Y." Often the explanation involves a 10 minute crash course on patents. In the end, patents can be very useful so long as you have a real invention and a well-drafted application. Another consideration is when raising capital, your investors are going to want to see some level of protection, even if it's simply in a form of an application and not a fully issued patent.

software copy right hahaha...

 

who actually buys software..

software copy right hahaha...

 

who actually buys software..

 

A lot of people, both individuals and businesses... and the copyright is as much about preventing someone else making exactly the same application by simply stealing your code, as it is about protecting sales.

I guess apps are like websites. You have one site that takes off and 1000s of copy cats come along later. None or very few of them get any where.

 

The problem with the web in general is you can go to a freelancer in India and tell them "copy the idea and functionality of xxxxxx.com" and you will have a copy of the idea with a different design.

 

I think the best way to go along with a good app idea or website idea is make it great and have all your plans ready before releasing. If it's truly a great app it won't be a problem to sell if to thousands before anyone even tries to copy it. It's important to be first in the software game and roll with it. You will be the "go to" app even though there are many apps like yours in the end because you have built up a customer base, you have built up download stats and ratings. Why go with a new program that does the same if you can download the "original app" with good ratings and lots of downloads?

 

Just be sure to market it so you get the ball rolling. It doesn't matter if you have a great app if no one knows about it. There are thousands and thousands of apps out there. I'm sure there are 10-20 app that I would love to have but I just don't know about them in the huge database of apps.