Murci on the track

I don't know how much track experience you have so i will cut you slack.

You dont have to cut me some slack, I can take the heat. I have many Viper Days Track events and other Car Club track events under my belt, including Mid Ohio, VIR, Autobahn, Putnam Park,etc). I am certainly no Race car driver, but I always consistently held my own in the run groups I was in, often times being pushed up a group due to my times.

-I find it odd you are comparing a Murci to a Viper. There is no comparison except maybe in the performance department and i agree with you, i would rather have a Murci.

I dont find it odd at all. I've owned both, tracked one and plan to track the other, and hell for good measure we can add the GT-R (owned and tracked) to the mix if you like. No one talked about being a race car driver, or these being Race Cars, these are enthusiast cars, and they all perform pretty damn well on a track for being a street car. No point was I trying to take on a racing series in them.

-As far as track performance, Murci is not a track car period. It doens't mean you cannot enjoy yourself on track but pushing the car on track will expose the huge shortcomings of the car.

I have driven them all, early ones, LP640, with CCB's and without, and there is no doubt the cars with CCB are better in the braking department but they still don't cut it. The Murci is really heavy and when you push it to the limit, which most people will not even come close to, the weight of the car makes it very unplesant to drive and the brakes do give away.

 

The Murci is TOTALLY over weight. I of course removed about 200-250 lbs to get it to the 'fatness' I am used to from my GTR, but neither of them compare to the lightness of the 3,400 lbs Viper. That being said, I am definitely not on the same page as you with the effectively religating the murci to just looking nice. I'd gladly try it on the track, once I get a few things ironed out (larger fronts), and more power. Sure I should have picked a coupe if I actually planned to track it, but Roadster is what the heart wanted and it'll be 'ok' for some track fun.

 

Do 20 hard continous laps in any Murci and see where the brakes are at, that is if they last half the distance.

Hell, I couldnt do 20 hard continue laps in my Viper without having brake issues, and I was running motul, (stock pads) and Stop Tech Rotors. I personally am not able to do that from a sustaining perspective (the demands on the body are huge), let alone the car. For me, if a car can handle 8 or so hot laps, thats all I am going to ask of it, becasue its all I can do myself.

 

I didnt engage you to start a fight, I perhaps was interseted in sharing that we all have different paradigmns in life, and for me, a RWD, CCB, 200 lbs lighter Murci with perhaps wider fronts, seems to me to be a very exciting car I will enjoy not only on the street but on the track as well.

 

This discussion was never about a purpose built race car.

I don't even have the same standard brakes as the '06 Murci (6 piston brembos). The early Murci's are just BremboGT 4 piston brakes (Lambo adds their own stickers) and they cannot handle the Murci's weight. It was very scary the first time that I found out how poor the brakes actually are on this car.

 

Nick

 

Our brakes are definitly not the greatest, but having 4 piston all the way around is actually not that bad. The brake fluid needs to be changed out to SRF Castrol, http://www.powersportsuperstore.com/Castro...htm?Click=35177

 

With how heavy our cars are, the fluid reaches its boiling point very easily and brake fade comes into play. With this fluid it doesn't happen.

 

I found these replacement pads.. haven't tried them, but may be worth a shot for the cost if you are tarcking a lot. Front and Rears i believe are the same.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EBC-YELLOWSTUFF-HI...4c9&vxp=mtr

I would love to gut the lambo to save weight, take all leather out, carpet, radio, a/c, etc. put a plexi windshield in, plexi windows, roll cage, straight pipe, tune, and adjust suspension and camber, upgrade brakes, Convert to RWD and with all that I think it could be a great track car.. As for the off the showroom compared to the off the showroom viper.. Definitly no comparison on the track. The Murci is an open road car for sure.

 

If I could find a sponser I would do it in a heart beat.. This car is so held back.. I don't think I would ever come off the track

I would love to gut the lambo to save weight, take all leather out, carpet, radio, a/c, etc. put a plexi windshield in, plexi windows, roll cage, straight pipe, tune, and adjust suspension and camber, upgrade brakes, Convert to RWD and with all that I think it could be a great track car.. As for the off the showroom compared to the off the showroom viper.. Definitly no comparison on the track. The Murci is an open road car for sure.

 

If I could find a sponser I would do it in a heart beat.. This car is so held back.. I don't think I would ever come off the track

 

That sounds like a shit load of $$$ and effort to end up with a car that will be virtually unsellable, and a mediocre performer on it's best day.

 

For the cost of those mods you could land a 2010 ACR that will run circles around it.

 

One thing on the brakes, the fluid is a huge part, but pads play a massive role here as well. You need track pads that are designed to work in that temperature range. Even the hotter street pads still aren't that tolerant to real track abuse and will degas and fade pretty badly, and in some instances even delaminate from the backing plate.

 

Granted they run full recirculating bake fluid systems, but if the race cars sit there with glowing rotors for hours on end and not have everything burst into flames, it isn't that hard to get a street car to do 20 lap sessions.

 

Me personally, even if I was only capable of doing 8 lap runs, I would want a system that outperformed the maximum capability of the car/tires. You don't want to end up like this guy.

 

 

Our brakes are definitly not the greatest, but having 4 piston all the way around is actually not that bad. The brake fluid needs to be changed out to SRF Castrol, http://www.powersportsuperstore.com/Castro...htm?Click=35177

 

With how heavy our cars are, the fluid reaches its boiling point very easily and brake fade comes into play. With this fluid it doesn't happen.

 

I found these replacement pads.. haven't tried them, but may be worth a shot for the cost if you are tarcking a lot. Front and Rears i believe are the same.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EBC-YELLOWSTUFF-HI...4c9&vxp=mtr

I have ATE Super Blue fluid and Pagid pads; the initial bite is weak and there is immediate fade (compared to Viper). I'll probably switch to a different pad this year, I've ran Hawk pads on other Brembo GT cars.

 

From what I've read in the Subaru & Viper world (both Brembo GT) the EBC pads blow.

 

I would love to gut the lambo to save weight, take all leather out, carpet, radio, a/c, etc. put a plexi windshield in, plexi windows, roll cage, straight pipe, tune, and adjust suspension and camber, upgrade brakes, Convert to RWD and with all that I think it could be a great track car.. As for the off the showroom compared to the off the showroom viper.. Definitly no comparison on the track. The Murci is an open road car for sure.

 

If I could find a sponser I would do it in a heart beat.. This car is so held back.. I don't think I would ever come off the track

I'm RWD, straight pipe, adjusted the suspension, and taken other weight saving measures. While it does help, it's not enough to make the brakes comfortable. When it comes time for me to purchase new rotors, the stock front brakes are going to be tossed for some 6 or 8 piston brakes.

 

Nick

and taken other weight saving measures.

 

You holding back on me? What else can I do to lighten this pig?

 

I'm hoping the track I go to this weekend has a weight scale, it would be nice to know how much the piggy is at right now. I've dropped a legitimate 200 lbs, BUT since I have the roadster i probably am carrying more weight then the coupes.

You dont have to cut me some slack, I can take the heat. I have many Viper Days Track events and other Car Club track events under my belt, including Mid Ohio, VIR, Autobahn, Putnam Park,etc). I am certainly no Race car driver, but I always consistently held my own in the run groups I was in, often times being pushed up a group due to my times.

 

I dont find it odd at all. I've owned both, tracked one and plan to track the other, and hell for good measure we can add the GT-R (owned and tracked) to the mix if you like. No one talked about being a race car driver, or these being Race Cars, these are enthusiast cars, and they all perform pretty damn well on a track for being a street car. No point was I trying to take on a racing series in them.

 

 

The Murci is TOTALLY over weight. I of course removed about 200-250 lbs to get it to the 'fatness' I am used to from my GTR, but neither of them compare to the lightness of the 3,400 lbs Viper. That being said, I am definitely not on the same page as you with the effectively religating the murci to just looking nice. I'd gladly try it on the track, once I get a few things ironed out (larger fronts), and more power. Sure I should have picked a coupe if I actually planned to track it, but Roadster is what the heart wanted and it'll be 'ok' for some track fun.

 

 

Hell, I couldnt do 20 hard continue laps in my Viper without having brake issues, and I was running motul, (stock pads) and Stop Tech Rotors. I personally am not able to do that from a sustaining perspective (the demands on the body are huge), let alone the car. For me, if a car can handle 8 or so hot laps, thats all I am going to ask of it, becasue its all I can do myself.

 

I didnt engage you to start a fight, I perhaps was interseted in sharing that we all have different paradigmns in life, and for me, a RWD, CCB, 200 lbs lighter Murci with perhaps wider fronts, seems to me to be a very exciting car I will enjoy not only on the street but on the track as well.

 

This discussion was never about a purpose built race car.

 

I never once mentioned a prupose built race car so i don't understand why it gets brought up repeatedly. I have no interest in starting a fight. I was just sharing my experiences with the Murci and why i does not make a good track car. It is none of my business what you do with your car and you seem to be enjoying yourself so rock on and be safe.

FWIW, i would not track any roadster without a full roll cage for obvious safety reasons but again, none of my business.

I never once mentioned a prupose built race car so i don't understand why it gets brought up repeatedly. I have no interest in starting a fight. I was just sharing my experiences with the Murci and why i does not make a good track car. It is none of my business what you do with your car and you seem to be enjoying yourself so rock on and be safe.

FWIW, i would not track any roadster without a full roll cage for obvious safety reasons but again, none of my business.

 

 

You are being very polite , too polite. I'm surprised you even wasted your breath. Everyone is a big super fast talented expert until they actually race, then as you and I both know you quickly realize you aren't as smart or talented as you first thought .

You are being very polite , too polite. I'm surprised you even wasted your breath. Everyone is a big super fast talented expert until they actually race, then as you and I both know you quickly realize you aren't as smart or talented as you first thought .

 

You are right, i should have saved my breath. My opinion means shit, i have only been racing for 30 years, what would i know about cars on track?

You holding back on me? What else can I do to lighten this pig?

 

I'm hoping the track I go to this weekend has a weight scale, it would be nice to know how much the piggy is at right now. I've dropped a legitimate 200 lbs, BUT since I have the roadster i probably am carrying more weight then the coupes.

 

We did a RWD conversion and custom straight pipe exhaust. The biggest two weight savings measures you can do. Here's what an '06 Murci STILL WEIGHED!

 

 

It's a heavy PIG! Now you see why we were so happy with 3463 with the cage and huge TT system!

You are right, i should have saved my breath. My opinion means shit, i have only been racing for 30 years, what would i know about cars on track?

 

 

I actually thought your response was very respectful and to the point. I thought 'hey alright this guy seems cool, hope I didnt piss him off, was just trying to give my perspective'

 

There is nothing wrong with sharing opinions and having dialogue. Its called a forum, if its some how 'wasting your breath' by having such, why be on a forum?

 

Thanks for your input, and regarding the roadster, even with those insane pop ups for roll over protection, you think its still very dangerous? (I'd go find a photo to show you, but I have to get ready for work), but those things are like 7 inches wide, 2 feet long and 2 inches think, and when you are at risk of flipping over, they pop up. I've never seen such an OVER engineered system in my life. Even my viper convertible pales in comparison.

 

Thanks for not making this a personal thing, and just sharing your knowledge.

 

Jon

We did a RWD conversion and custom straight pipe exhaust. The biggest two weight savings measures you can do. Here's what an '06 Murci STILL WEIGHED!

 

It's a heavy PIG! Now you see why we were so happy with 3463 with the cage and huge TT system!

 

Dang it... you just rained on my poor piggy parade. Any other decent weight savings options? I was thinking those seats could be a weight savings opportunity. What else?

You a racer with any talent? If no than you arent anywhere near the cars limits, your limits yes...the cars limits nowhere near

 

i been driving my 965rwhp twin turbo supra for 10 years on the swedish tracks and i can tell you a stock murcie aint hard to push its limits on a track after a few laps the stock tires and breakes start failing and thats when u pushing its limits.

but a murcie that is modded for a track is something else but that would be a rare sight specially in my country where there is only 25 murcies registered and there isnt any lambo dealer either here.

i been driving my 965rwhp twin turbo supra for 10 years on the swedish tracks and i can tell you a stock murcie aint hard to push its limits on a track after a few laps the stock tires and breakes start failing and thats when u pushing its limits.

but a murcie that is modded for a track is something else but that would be a rare sight specially in my country where there is only 25 murcies registered and there isnt any lambo dealer either here.

 

 

overheating a cars brakes and tires aren't the limits of a car. That actually would mean you are driving it improperly for the most part. The cars limits are what is the fastest a top driver can lap it at a track, and you are not doing that. So it's your limits not the cars limits

I actually thought your response was very respectful and to the point. I thought 'hey alright this guy seems cool, hope I didnt piss him off, was just trying to give my perspective'

 

There is nothing wrong with sharing opinions and having dialogue. Its called a forum, if its some how 'wasting your breath' by having such, why be on a forum?

 

Thanks for your input, and regarding the roadster, even with those insane pop ups for roll over protection, you think its still very dangerous? (I'd go find a photo to show you, but I have to get ready for work), but those things are like 7 inches wide, 2 feet long and 2 inches think, and when you are at risk of flipping over, they pop up. I've never seen such an OVER engineered system in my life. Even my viper convertible pales in comparison.

 

Thanks for not making this a personal thing, and just sharing your knowledge.

 

Jon

 

Here are the major concerns with tracking a roadster:

-Structural rigidity: As you might be aware, the Murci is based on the Diablo, basically an old design .There is not a lot of torsional rigidity in the chassis to begin with, now takes the top off and you have even less. So now, you have flex everywhere and you put load on the car on the track, that flex is going to be accentuated.

-The pop up roll bar gives a flase sense of security. These are so many ways to roll a car, you have to be ready for the worst case scenario. If a rear tire blows out on you at high speed, you will need every bit of luck to come out alive as you are crashing. I have been there and to put it midly, it is ugly.

-I personally would get a purpose build track car and beat the hell out of it and drive the Murci on the street. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, just a car that has been professionally prepped that you can drive the hell out of without having to worry of huge expense bills if you crash.Let's face it, you go off track with the Murci and smack it up, there goes all the fun. You might say you don't drive too hard to risk the car, but i doesn't have to be your fault. Anytime you go on track, anything can happen. Car in font of you blows an engine and drops oil, someone crashes into you etc.

 

Anyway, good luck and have fun.

Here are the major concerns with tracking a roadster:

-Structural rigidity: As you might be aware, the Murci is based on the Diablo, basically an old design .There is not a lot of torsional rigidity in the chassis to begin with, now takes the top off and you have even less. So now, you have flex everywhere and you put load on the car on the track, that flex is going to be accentuated.

-The pop up roll bar gives a flase sense of security. These are so many ways to roll a car, you have to be ready for the worst case scenario. If a rear tire blows out on you at high speed, you will need every bit of luck to come out alive as you are crashing. I have been there and to put it midly, it is ugly.

-I personally would get a purpose build track car and beat the hell out of it and drive the Murci on the street. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, just a car that has been professionally prepped that you can drive the hell out of without having to worry of huge expense bills if you crash.Let's face it, you go off track with the Murci and smack it up, there goes all the fun. You might say you don't drive too hard to risk the car, but i doesn't have to be your fault. Anytime you go on track, anything can happen. Car in font of you blows an engine and drops oil, someone crashes into you etc.

 

Anyway, good luck and have fun.

 

Thats the kind of insight and value I like to see from an open discussion. Yeah, I definitely will never say 'i am not going to drive it hard enough to risk it' Thats bullshit.. and yes I have heard others say it too. I think 2 things when they say that:

1. well if its true, get the fcuk off the track, you'll be in everyone way.

2. why the fcuk even bother, there is no fun street driving your car on a race track.

 

Thanks again... and yes, when I'm on the track.. I'm at risk along with everyone else. All you did was revert me back to my pre purchase notion... I'm never going to track this car, its to sloppy, and the damage that can occur from a mistake or failure is to costly. BUT I still think the CCB brakes kick ass on this car

 

Jon

Great to see you having fun! Not too often you get to see a Murcielago getting track time. She sounds good!

 

As some guys pointed out, who really cares if the car is defined as a great track car as long as you are having fun. I hit the track in an F430 the other day and while I'm sure I wasn't even half way to the cars limits, I was smiling ear-to-ear. Mission accomplished.

 

Looking forward to seeing more!

Here are the major concerns with tracking a roadster:

-Structural rigidity: As you might be aware, the Murci is based on the Diablo, basically an old design .There is not a lot of torsional rigidity in the chassis to begin with, now takes the top off and you have even less. So now, you have flex everywhere and you put load on the car on the track, that flex is going to be accentuated.

-The pop up roll bar gives a flase sense of security. These are so many ways to roll a car, you have to be ready for the worst case scenario. If a rear tire blows out on you at high speed, you will need every bit of luck to come out alive as you are crashing. I have been there and to put it midly, it is ugly.

-I personally would get a purpose build track car and beat the hell out of it and drive the Murci on the street. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, just a car that has been professionally prepped that you can drive the hell out of without having to worry of huge expense bills if you crash.Let's face it, you go off track with the Murci and smack it up, there goes all the fun. You might say you don't drive too hard to risk the car, but i doesn't have to be your fault. Anytime you go on track, anything can happen. Car in font of you blows an engine and drops oil, someone crashes into you etc.

 

Anyway, good luck and have fun.

 

AMEN! It's fun for "parade" laps, but certainly NOT a track worthy car.

 

I did enjoy a few "quickies" though.

 

 

You holding back on me? What else can I do to lighten this pig?

You're on board for the same savings (heat shields, trunk shelf, etc). I lost a little more weight dropping the primaries, but not enough weight loss to justify the extra noise.

 

Nick

You're on board for the same savings (heat shields, trunk shelf, etc). I lost a little more weight dropping the primaries, but not enough weight loss to justify the extra noise.

 

Nick

 

 

Yeah, good point, I forgot that I did those other things (the trunk shelf, and the exhaust heat sheild). The good news is, I DID get the car officially weighed. My car came in at 3870 LBS (digital scale)

 

Removed FWD, and all associated hardware (1/2 shafts, torque tube, differential, etc).

Replaced exhaust system with bypass pipes (secondary CATs and muffler and heat sheild and the black exhaust Mesh cover)

removed front shelf (and all factory car tools)

 

I have CCBs, so I know I shed weight from the factory on what my rotors weigh relative to the Steel ones.

 

Had roadster TOP ON when weighed, basicaly right off the street I weighed the car, just the way I drive it every day.

Yeah, good point, I forgot that I did those other things (the trunk shelf, and the exhaust heat sheild). The good news is, I DID get the car officially weighed. My car came in at 3870 LBS (digital scale)

 

Removed FWD, and all associated hardware (1/2 shafts, torque tube, differential, etc).

Replaced exhaust system with bypass pipes (secondary CATs and muffler and heat sheild and the black exhaust Mesh cover)

removed front shelf (and all factory car tools)

 

I have CCBs, so I know I shed weight from the factory on what my rotors weigh relative to the Steel ones.

 

Had roadster TOP ON when weighed, basicaly right off the street I weighed the car, just the way I drive it every day.

 

Nice! How much fuel?

 

You can change to a lithium batter (55 pound savings), drop about 75 pounds worth of sound deadening material that doesn't do all that much. Primary cats are 30 pounds, CF seats will save you another 70. Then there's a ridiculous amount of weight that can be dropped out of the engine bay.

Nice! How much fuel?

 

You can change to a lithium batter (55 pound savings), drop about 75 pounds worth of sound deadening material that doesn't do all that much. Primary cats are 30 pounds, CF seats will save you another 70. Then there's a ridiculous amount of weight that can be dropped out of the engine bay.

 

 

Ahh good point, i had 1/2 a tank of Gas.

 

They put an Optima Yellow Top battery in my car, so I feal that I would be wasting money to ditch it for the lithum, however, if it ever goes bad, I will totally do that.

 

You are totally right on the sound deadening, they do this shitty stuff right behind the panels behind the seat, that effectively delaminates from the car (foam and metal heat shield) that does no good, but is staying around for the 'ride') I thought about pulling some of it off, but didnt, in fear of keeping the car 'original,' but screw it, I've already added my touches to it already, (rwd, 2nd cat delete, muffler delete, etc), why not pull out that crap next time I need to access that area...

 

Yeah, I just havent been able to settle on whats a great CF seat. If anyone has some suggestions of ones they know work well and they are pleased with, please point them out. I had to pull out the seats to do my stereo install, and those bitches are HEAVY.. I know there is weight savings there definitely.

 

Any insight into the engine bay weight savings items? I did the muffler, the cats, the heat sheild, the heat shield metal mesh thing, what else ?

 

Shit this might be a fun activity, stop chasing HP, and start chasing car Dieting!

Ahh good point, i had 1/2 a tank of Gas.

 

They put an Optima Yellow Top battery in my car, so I feal that I would be wasting money to ditch it for the lithum, however, if it ever goes bad, I will totally do that.

 

You are totally right on the sound deadening, they do this shitty stuff right behind the panels behind the seat, that effectively delaminates from the car (foam and metal heat shield) that does no good, but is staying around for the 'ride') I thought about pulling some of it off, but didnt, in fear of keeping the car 'original,' but screw it, I've already added my touches to it already, (rwd, 2nd cat delete, muffler delete, etc), why not pull out that crap next time I need to access that area...

 

Yeah, I just havent been able to settle on whats a great CF seat. If anyone has some suggestions of ones they know work well and they are pleased with, please point them out. I had to pull out the seats to do my stereo install, and those bitches are HEAVY.. I know there is weight savings there definitely.

 

Any insight into the engine bay weight savings items? I did the muffler, the cats, the heat sheild, the heat shield metal mesh thing, what else ?

 

Shit this might be a fun activity, stop chasing HP, and start chasing car Dieting!

If we got 75lbs. from an SV; imagine what you can from a Standard Murci! You're right on the seats. 41lbs. a pop.