nuclear test in north korea?

Saddam certainly had manufactured weapons of mass destruction. He had used them on more than one occasion in the past. Why no stockpiles of those weapons were found (as opposed to programs in place related to those weapons, many of which were in fact found) is an interesting question with many possible answers. Some believe they were shipped to Syria or another destination prior to the invasion, others believe that Saddam was deceived by his top aides into believing they had WMD's they no longer had at that time, etc. But what is not debatable is that 1) Saddam did not "come clean" or cooperate with the U.N. on the issue to demonstrate his compliance with the agreements he made after the first Gulf War; and 2) every reputable intelligence agency in the world believed he still had WMD's. That's the primary reason Congress voted to authorize the use of force in Iraq, and why most of the Dems were tripping over each other to get to the TV cameras in early 2003 to explain why they voted for the use of force and why Saddam was a threat and had to go.

 

Someone can certainly have a good faith belief that going to war with Iraq was a bad idea, for any number of reasons, but if anyone believes the Democratic BS about Bush and Cheney "lying" to everyone they are horrendously ill-informed. It not only didn't happen, it isn't even possible (top Congressional leaders don't get their intelligence info from the White House, and damn sure wouldn't rely on the President's word to make a decision on whether to go to war). Once things began to drag along over there and the war became politically unpopular, the Dems latched onto the failure to find stockpiles of WMD's as a way to explain their votes and blame everything on Bush. Which is one of the most cynical, dishonorable and disgusting things I've seen happen in Washington in my lifetime. I have way more respect for Code Pink and the other members of the virulently anti-war crowd than I do for the Democrats who went along with that crock of crap (or the media who was complicit in it).

Great post

Great post

Anyone who doesn't believe Sadam had WMD or at least the capability of making them, check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_chemica...m#Iran-Iraq_War

 

The reason none were found was because these weapons could have easily been dismantled prior to the invasion, anyone remember how Saddam was stalling for time with the UN inspectors, a few months before the invasion?

WMD or not, leadership good or bad, it seems popular opinion has so conveniently forgotten what the days after 9/11 tasted like. If WMDs and an Arab were within the same rumor, they were getting a warhead on the forehead, period. It's still pretty much like that today. That wasn't the time to go testing the Great Itchy Trigger Finger in the world, at its most defensive state in decades. It's pretty simple, yet we've made it so complicated, looking back.

 

So, you're in charge. Your country is attacked on a world-grabbing historic scale. You hear that someone might have the opportunity or the motive to escalate the destruction and/or deliver it to your doorstep in unpredictable or indefensible ways. It might not even be provable. Do you,

A. Complain that you don't have enough intel and debate the matter into next year.

B. Ignore them.

C. Destroy them.

 

All the armchair revisionists in the country (you're in charge now), please stand up and justify your answer.

> every reputable intelligence agency in the world believed he still had WMD's

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant)

 

This is interesting.

 

What did I say before about 1 or 2 years ago in here.

 

NK gives NO one shit, including the Chinese. In case you don't know, the Koreans (including SK)are very strong nationalists.

 

as I mentioned before if you think Vietnam War was hard enough, then you better not start the war with NK (this might not be possible).

 

Becasue they are insame communists and have been building their country for last 50 years for One and One Only Purpose, Invade SK and destory who ever stood on their way.

 

Shit, this is scary!!!

It takes a lot more than insanity to take on the world superpowers.

Some of the memes are hilarious

as I mentioned before if you think Vietnam War was hard enough, then you better not start the war with NK (this might not be possible).

 

Becasue they are insame communists and have been building their country for last 50 years for One and One Only Purpose, Invade SK and destory who ever stood on their way.

 

Shit, this is scary!!!

 

While I agree that it's scary and that they are extremely nationalistic, I believe the comparison made is ludicrous.

 

I certainly hope nothing happens, but we have to remain steadfast and strong. Kim Jung Un certainly isn't stupid, he was educated in Switzerland and was apparently a good student. So, he is aware of the consequences of starting a war with the South, and in the end I can't see him stepping too far.

 

 

 

While I agree that it's scary and that they are extremely nationalistic, I believe the comparison made is ludicrous.

North Korea says it will Launch a missile tomorrow.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/390452...evacuate-South??

This is interesting.

 

What did I say before about 1 or 2 years ago in here.

 

NK gives NO one shit, including the Chinese. In case you don't know, the Koreans (including SK)are very strong nationalists.

 

as I mentioned before if you think Vietnam War was hard enough, then you better not start the war with NK (this might not be possible).

 

Becasue they are insame communists and have been building their country for last 50 years for One and One Only Purpose, Invade SK and destory who ever stood on their way.

 

Shit, this is scary!!!

 

The difference is that the Korean war was a proxy war for the United States and the Soviet Union now we no longer have those issues to worry about. While this wouldn't be a 1 week war it certainly won't be a rerun of what we saw so many years ago.

WTF is wrong with these people? If the threats can be confirmed to be genuine, isn't that a declaration of war? why are we waiting for them to strike first? It might be too late and with catastrophic consequances.

 

I'd say send the Fatboy his Christmas present much earlier this year!

WTF is wrong with these people? If the threats can be confirmed to be genuine, isn't that a declaration of war? why are we waiting for them to strike first? It might be too late and with catastrophic consequances.

 

I'd say send the Fatboy his Christmas present much earlier this year!

I saw this interesting analysis on another site. Maybe this is what's going on?

 

"Today is Tuesday in Japan. Tomorrow is Tuesday in the US.

Today (Monday) it was announced that tomorrow (Tuesday) the Commander of the US Pacific Command is going to testify before the Senate Arm's Committee that North Korea presents a, "clear and direct threat" to the United States of America, and the region.1

Today in Japan (Tuesday), or the same day as the hearing but a day after the announcement, Japan themselves announce that they are going to shoot down a missile even if it it's a test.2

This would have been a violation of the Potsdam Declaration unless the US approved it and specifically identified North Korea as a hostile threat to Japan, thus allowing their military to engage for non-defensive purposes --> which firing on a test launch may qualify as.

If war were to break out the US Commander will assume control of both the Japanese defense forces, and the South Korean military as per the Korean Armistice Agreement of 1953 and other UN resolutions/Treaties.3 Japan is incapable of making this decision independent of the US giving permission/agreeing/being of the same mind.

Now, last week the US announced that it was going to cancel a missile test off the coast of California.4 This was done because the US didn't want North Korea to misinterpret the test as being aggressive and having it lead to war. If you understand the history of the Korean War you'll understand why the North Koreans believe the US is the aggressor.5,6,7

Now, 2 days later, or this week General James Thurman (Commander of US/Korean forces) canceled a trip to Washington because of the tensions8 and now a day later the Japanese make the announcement that they will fire on a North Korean missile even if it's a test simultaneously with Admiral Samuel Locklear giving testimony before the Senate which formally allows Japan to fire. The article referenced here, the main article in this thread which states that North Korea has notified foreign embassies of their intent to test a missile on Wednesday (tomorrow) was also from the same day (Tuesday). Although I have no idea who said what to who first, the order that they came in across the international news outlets for me was (1) Admiral Locklear announcement, (2) Japan announcement, (3) North Korea announcement... meaning that North Korea may have been aware of Japan & Locklear's statements before they made their own. If they were not aware then they cannot get out of this without looking weak. The hand has been over played.

This is a way for the US to exert it's dominance. This is a way for the US to tell North Korea to do whatever the fcuk it wants, but to understand that they are going to be fighting everyone. US Pacific Fleet. ROK forces. Japan. China isn't going to help[citation needed] <--this is why Obama said any response would be proportional9 and all Russia wants to do is make money.10 Kind of interesting how quickly they picked up on capitalism, no?

They're fucked now. There is no way out. This is how and where it's going to start or they're not going to bite. If they even think about firing a missile we're going to try and shoot it down. fcuk your test. The test in California just got moved to Japan. It's not a test. This just got real. No one is interested in barking anymore. You guys seriously need to understand this shit.

This is where it gets dangerous and this should NOT be minimized. North Korea is a failed state that cannot feed its own people. It will implode and self destruct without some sort of intervention. Historically, Kim Jung Un's father was able to do this every few years to get food. The new South Korean President promised to help with food but gave no specific terms. You can read about this and other comments she's made more recently here, here, here, here, and here. This is the beginning of the end for North Korea. Something is going to happen now. Even with intervention North Korea will never be the same. Kim Jung Un may or may not maintain power (or his life).

So their back is against a wall right now. This isn't funny. How they respond to Japan shooting down a missile could lead to all out war. If they don't go to war, the country is likely to implode without massive international intervention because of how bad the conditions are there, and if Kim Jung Un tries to abandon the nuclear program and oust the military? He'll likely be killed. There was already an attempt on his life last year.11

The Swiss offered their assistance to mediate this and have said to have already been in contact with the North Koreans.12

"For North Korea, symbols are very important," she told the SonntagsZeitung newspaper in an interview. "What the North Koreans still want is recognition and security guarantees from the United States."

Essentially what you're seeing here is an impossible situation that is gradually approaching a precipice. Washington has said no negotiations whatsoever until you completely abandon their nuclear program or you will starve to death. But if they up and abandon their military... then it may also mean death, at least the North Koreans may very well believe so. This is essentially the only way they can get to negotiate directly with anyone. They must do this for their survival. You are witnessing complete desperation. They cannot go on like this any longer.

North Korea began experiencing sanctions starting in 199313, a year before Kim Sung Il died. A nice chronology of events from 1945 through the present can be found here. So you go back to the 40s and read your way up. Then Kim Jung Il takes power and his situation was at least a lot better than Kim Jung Un's situation right now. I'm not defending them, or taking their side, but from their perspective this entire situation is completely different. What's really amusing is that this chronology literally has a single entry for the 1970s, and a single entry for the 1980s. I don't feel like extensively citing this but basically what happened during this time is Mao died, China changed, and the USSR collapsed. North Korea just kind of watched it all from the sidelines and was more or less helpless to change themselves. China never officially changed. North Korea just couldn't flip a switch and become a liberal pot friendly country like the Netherlands. They had to tow the party line in order to get what they had grown increasingly dependent on (Kim Sung Il's greatest fear) and this served to not only drive them further away from the rest of the world but also drove them further away from China because as China (and the USSR) changed and became more progressive North Korea became more of a burden while at the same time US-Chinese relations have continued to improve making the need for a "buffer state" even less important. The DMZ is already the most militarized border in the world. With the rise of ICBM's do you really think China cares about the Yalu river like they did in the 1950s?

ㅋㅋㅋ The greatest irony of this entire tragedy is that of all the countries in the world that I am familiar with... the one that is most similar to the United States... is North Korea.14 North Korea is the Detroit of the world. No one else would have the pure balls to stand up to the worlds two largest super powers and put a middle finger in the air. Kim Jung Un is 30 years old and he is not in control of that country. He is just a few years older than you, the reader. He is most likely going to die a violent death because he was born into a shitty family. The only other possibility is that this is all scripted theater we are watching. Kim Jung Un is about to "win" the Korean war and then will boldly open up the country and grow to be an old man like Fidel Castro. I hope this is the case. Hopefully we can maybe lift the sanctions before he dies... because that shit with Cuba is getting ridiculous and quite frankly North Korea isn't going to last for another 50 years of embargoes and sanctions. And if hipsters start mixing soju and cola and calling it 평양자유 just because it's served with a slice of lime then I'm going to seriously flip my shit."

WTF is wrong with these people? If the threats can be confirmed to be genuine, isn't that a declaration of war? why are we waiting for them to strike first? It might be too late and with catastrophic consequances.

 

I'd say send the Fatboy his Christmas present much earlier this year!

 

I'm thinking they aren't all that worried about it and have things in place to deal with what they anticipate will be coming. Who knows, with our bullshit UN rules we might all be forced to wait for them to make the first move. I can only hope our answer involves a swarm of predator drones attacking them like fcuking killer bees.

Very simple, give up the nuclear program and you will get some food for your people it can't get any easier than that but the Fatboy doesn't look like he's missed any meals lately therefore he's unaffected.

 

I don't buy into the assumption that he's not in charge, he's just trying to make himself relevant and important, typical of a child who grew up in the shadow of a powerful father.

 

 

 

Who knows, with our bullshit UN rules we might all be forced to wait for them to make the first move.

 

International Law (UN Armed Attack Charter 1945) dictates that a state can enact military force in a few cases:

 

Right to protect - i.e. in the case of genocide (humanitarian intervention)

Self defense - divided into two types: Anticipatory Self-Defense (threat of immediate attack) and Preemptive Strike.

 

This does seem a bit vague, and maybe even out of date.

They had to tow the party line in order to get what they had grown increasingly dependent on (Kim Sung Il's greatest fear) and this served to not only drive them further away from the rest of the world but also drove them further away from China because as China (and the USSR) changed and became more progressive North Korea became more of a burden while at the same time US-Chinese relations have continued to improve making the need for a "buffer state" even less important. The DMZ is already the most militarized border in the world. With the rise of ICBM's do you really think China cares about the Yalu river like they did in the 1950s?

 

I don't think China would want the North Korean regime to fall. Then they end up possibly with lots of North Korean refugees crossing over into China. Also they end up with a strong U.S. ally and possibly U.S. military presence directly across their border.

Girl on my FB feed posted this.

 

Girl on my FB feed posted this.

 

WOW...

Girl on my FB feed posted this.

 

Why'd you black her name out? Should have left it up so we can internet shame her. She needs it for sure if she is that stupid.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013...-has-nukes.html

 

According to the report, “DIA assesses with moderate confidence the North currently has nuclear weapons capable of delivery by ballistic missiles however the reliability will be low.” That line was read aloud by Rep. Doug Lamborn, a Republican from Colorado, on Thursday during a House Armed Services Committee hearing.

 

The thought of NK having the capability to launch a nuclear missile anywhere outside their own border bothers me. I know on the east coast in some small city I have nothing to worry about but there are many billions of people within reach.

Send in SEAL Team 6, those boys will make sure he won't be getting his next Snickers!

The difference is that the Korean war was a proxy war for the United States and the Soviet Union now we no longer have those issues to worry about. While this wouldn't be a 1 week war it certainly won't be a rerun of what we saw so many years ago.

 

Well, You see I agree with you on half of what you said, but I am not entirely sure about what your expectation.

 

If Nuclear weapons weren't allowed, then I would say it is going to be the longest war the US will ever fight.

 

And prepare to loose 10k or more of your own/your allied troops+millions of innocent people.

 

Asia does not want to have a war at any level at this stage. No body wins a War.

If Nuclear weapons weren't allowed, then I would say it is going to be the longest war the US will ever fight.

 

And prepare to loose 10k or more of your own/your allied troops+millions of innocent people.

 

Asia does not want to have a war at any level at this stage. No body wins a War.

Before we would ever have to set a foot on the ground we have our unmanned drones, helicopters, fighter jets, guided missiles, a ridiculous number of M1 Abrams tanks and various other technologies that would make short work of anything North Korea has in their archaic inventory.

We've had a hard time in the middle east because of the urban warfare with an undefined enemy.

Put a defined army in front of US and you'd see these underfed,malnourished, overworked, under armed "military" of farmers and aged,worn men turn tail and defect quicker than Saddams republican guard did during the Gulf War.

The sound of A-10 Thunderbolt winding its guns a thousand feet above your head and 1000 lbs Jdams dropping around you would have a very sobering effect.