CERN Particle Accelerator

They weren't quite sure fully if the first atomic bomb would start a chain reaction in the atmosphere that would fry the whole planet or not either.

 

I doubt logical science will ever grasp the universe fully, because too much of it is purely illogical. Rational science has a limit. A lot of the ancient cultures understood this, that's where all their stuff about meditation comes from, because they recognized that in order to understand certain aspects of this universe, one must go beyond logic and rationality.

 

 

You are onto something here Wheels, and I applaud the brevity of your post too!

I don't think there's anything to be worried about. I'm preeeeetty sure they did their homework when designing this thing.

What I gained from watching a show on Science Channel about it is that IF a black hole were to form it would most probably evaporate instantaneously. But most everything in science original guesses are based on perfect conditions: no friction, equally distriputed mass and so on.

I don't think there's anything to be worried about. I'm preeeeetty sure they did their homework when designing this thing.

 

I agree.

Now with its success & knowledge gained, we may be on the verge of understanding the next levels of physic allowing for development of technologies allowing inter-stellar travel to become a reality.

There are theories on worm holes, folding & warping space that may one day become fact as a result of these experiments.

 

You are onto something here Wheels, and I applaud the brevity of your post too!

 

Thanks

I don't think there's anything to be worried about. I'm preeeeetty sure they did their homework when designing this thing.

 

Amen. I like listening to people question scientific developements but you've just known about this thing for a little while the people and you probably don't have a PhD in Physics but the guys who work on this stuff dedicate their lives to it. Chances are they consider every possible outcome.

There's no telling what will be discovered/invented/whatever if this thing works even slightly.

I was just thinking about how when the Wright brothers did their first flight, if you told them that within the next 60-70 years (whatever it was) that man would be flying to the moon on rocket ships they would have thought you were completely looney- there's no telling what is possible in just a few years time.

just happened across this right after i left this site when i was surfing some of my news sites:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7512586.stm

 

Yes, lots of new technologies, imagine what private jets, computers, videogames, etc...will be like in twenty years! MrNailhead, love the name BTW

^ ha, thanks- it's actually and homage to a car my dad and I were restoring- he had a 1964 Buick Riviera which had a 401 c.i. Nailhead V8- it was a buick designed engine that had vertically oriented valve covers- the combustion chambers were subsequently slightly hemispherical in shape- good engine.

just happened across this right after i left this site when i was surfing some of my news sites:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7512586.stm

 

1.9 Kelvin is cold!

There's no telling what will be discovered/invented/whatever if this thing works even slightly.

I was just thinking about how when the Wright brothers did their first flight, if you told them that within the next 60-70 years (whatever it was) that man would be flying to the moon on rocket ships they would have thought you were completely looney- there's no telling what is possible in just a few years time.

But there was no chance that what the Wright brothers would do would destroy the planet.

 

Its an interesting ethical question.... SHOULD YOU experiment with something that is impossible to measure the outcome and impact of, JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN?

But there was no chance that what the Wright brothers would do would destroy the planet.

 

Its an interesting ethical question.... SHOULD YOU experiment with something that is impossible to measure the outcome and impact of, JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN?

 

 

Good point.

Here is an an affidavit in the doomsday suit from a scientist who believes the collider is a game of "Russian roulette with two bullets":

 

I doubt there is any judge in the world capable of understanding the science.....

 

http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:PeFe2C...lient=firefox-a

I don't think there's anything to be worried about. I'm preeeeetty sure they did their homework when designing this thing.

 

 

I'm sure they've done their homework as well...but are they able to predict everything this thing may be able to produce? If they can't predict everything, they can't account for everything and thus unintended consequences from unexpected results can occur.

 

I'm no expert in physics and I can't even begin to comprehend some of the theories behind some of the science that is going on, however, even on an elementary level of understanding...a black hole forming on our plane, even if it just "instantaneous" may not be a good thing. The density and gravitational pull of these things can't be a good thing to introduce to our little closed biosphere called Earth, can it? Science is full of unexpected consequences, even though the scientists behind them, have "done their homework".

Here is an an affidavit in the doomsday suit from a scientist who believes the collider is a game of "Russian roulette with two bullets":

 

I doubt there is any judge in the world capable of understanding the science.....

 

http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:PeFe2C...lient=firefox-a

 

Holy shit! There's some cool stuff in that affidavit. So on the theory of the black holes...Einstein's theory would say the black hole would eat us up....Under Hawkings theory the planet will be fine? Which smart mofo do we believe? Pretty cool read...Black Mesa here we come!

Thanks all for the posts. I have been reading more and more on this out of curiosity. I would certainly bet on Einstein's theories. The affidavit is one scary argument aginst the operation of CERN. Makes for a terrific movie, hopefully I can walk away at the end of the show.

 

My view... it is a conCERN- wait is that a sign???

Would be kinda funny if they fired it and nothing happpened at all, nothing learned, nothing destroyed.

Here is an an affidavit in the doomsday suit from a scientist who believes the collider is a game of "Russian roulette with two bullets":

 

I doubt there is any judge in the world capable of understanding the science.....

 

http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:PeFe2C...lient=firefox-a

Im WHOLLY unimpressed with his CV... And the fact that he is bringing the suit pro se....

 

I would be surprised if he would qualify as an expert witness at trial.

 

Oh.... And... Hes crazy too. http://www.unificationtheory.com/astrophys...arandgalaxy.htm

 

 

As far as the arguments, the science and judges understanding them.... I understand them... I dont doubt many Judges would as well....

As far as the arguments, the science and judges understanding them.... I understand them... I dont doubt many Judges would as well....

 

You can understand this? The higher sciences, particularly quantum mechanics, string theory, etc are notoriously difficult to express/understand in common language. We laymen get a watered down version. At most, there are only a few thousand scientests in the world, who fully understand the science experiment going down at CERN. There is an huge element of trust involved in the project, as there always is with anything involved with science.

You can understand this? The higher sciences, particularly quantum mechanics, string theory, etc are notoriously difficult to express/understand in common language. We laymen get a watered down version. At most, there are only a few thousand scientests in the world, who fully understand the science experiment going down at CERN. There is an huge element of trust involved in the project, as there always is with anything involved with science.

 

I understand what hes written in his complaint.... It seems quite simple, and is written in easily understandable terms. The question then is, as it is in any legal question: Is it persuasive? And my answer based merely on his CV and other info Ive learned about him is "NO."

 

So yes, I understand enough to be able to sit as a judge or juror in the case. I don't need to be a brain surgeon to know whether a Doctor committed malpractice.

I doubt logical science will ever grasp the universe fully, because too much of it is purely illogical. Rational science has a limit.

 

Logical science is the ONLY kind of science that will ever grasp the Universe, as the universe is completely logical when understood; it is simply a matter of acquiring all of the knowledge necessary to be sufficiently learned on the subject. Science uses theories and tests them to prove or disprove them so as to adapt itself to better understand the Universe. Rational science only has logic as its limit, and considering that EVERYTHING else in the Universe has logic as its limit; I am fine with that limitation on its power.

 

A lot of the ancient cultures understood this, that's where all their stuff about meditation comes from, because they recognized that in order to understand certain aspects of this universe, one must go beyond logic and rationality.

 

This is why they are ANCIENT cultures! Any intelligent being knows that one NEVER need go beyond logic and rationality.

I understand what hes written in his complaint.... It seems quite simple, and is written in easily understandable terms. The question then is, as it is in any legal question: Is it persuasive? And my answer based merely on his CV and other info Ive learned about him is "NO."

 

So yes, I understand enough to be able to sit as a judge or juror in the case. I don't need to be a brain surgeon to know whether a Doctor committed malpractice.

 

No doubt if CERN chooses to respond to the complaint, their argument will be presented in equally understandable terms. I am sure the judge would be persuaded by CERN group, and on the face of it he would be right to side with the establishment. Malpractice is easy to figure out after the fact and doesn't apply here, since no wrong was committed. Would you feel comfortable, if the guy doing brain surgery on you got the green light from a judge, vs a medical degree and state certification?

 

 

The problem with this high level of science is very few people understand it. This project was probably reviewed scientifically by a relatively small and select group of people. The rest of us are working on trust and our faith in science to do good.

Malpractice is easy to figure out after the fact and doesn't apply here, since no wrong was committed. Would you feel comfortable, if the guy doing brain surgery on you got the green light from a judge, vs a medical degree and state certification?

AHA! And there we have it! This guy making the argument DOESNT have the EQUIVALENT OF A MEDICAL DEGREE or a state certification in the field!!!

 

He has a "Bachelors degree" and he "attended" graduate school.

 

He is NOT a PhD. And whereas I agree, some PhDs can be wholly overrated, I WOULDNT LET the guy with the "Bachelor degree and some med school" do brain surgery on me. In fact, I wouldnt let the DOCTOR WITH the Medical degree and the state certifications do brain surgery on me, unless I was A LOT MORE IMPRESSED with WHERE he got his degree, and whats hes accomplished with it since Med School than I am with the AVERAGE brain surgeon!!!!

 

 

This guy's CV lists "writing in magazines". Super.... How about some SCHOLARLY JOURNALS??? Thats what judges and attorneys look for when we seek an expert witness. What we're left with is a college drop-out with some bizarre, unaccepted, un peer reviewed theories, making an argument to shut down a project.... Does he have ANY mainstream scientists with the gravitas of reputation he lacks backing him?

^^^^

 

Well put. I would have to agree.

 

 

I can't wait to see what this machine will deliver